Guest guest Posted November 21, 2002 Report Share Posted November 21, 2002 , "Gloria Lee" <glee@c...> wrote: > > - > Joseph Riley > Panhala > Thursday, November 14, 2002 5:10 PM > [Panhala] Psalm 93 > > > > > God acts within every moment > and creates the world with each breath. > He speaks from the center of the universe, > in the silence beyond all thought. > Mightier than the crash of a thunderstorm, > mightier than the roar of the sea, > is God's voice silently speaking > in the depths of the listening heart. > > Psalm 93 > ( translation by Stephen Mitchell) Namaste, I know the Psalms are a mixture of several female and male writers, but why emphasise that God is a Male? I find it interesting that in contradiction to most religions, the Semitic Religions, do not build up the Goddess/Sakti. This has led us down a rather uninspiring road. It is all concepts I know but, in the East, God is thought of male only to the extent that he creates nothing at all, and the Creator of the Universe is the Sakti or Female Goddess, bringing forth and giving birth, which the male cannot do. This doesn't take anything away from the poetry of the psalms whoever wrote them..........Om Sakti......Saktidass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 22, 2002 Report Share Posted November 22, 2002 God is male because thats how He refers to Himself in the original languages, and because man was the first creation. God is male in these aspects, strong, provider, head of houshold, diciplinarian, etc. God is not male in these aspects, has reproductive organs, the Bible says that the angels are newter, or non-sexual oriented, and we will be too because we will neither be taken or given in marriage the Bible says, oh we will still have our personailities, but we will not have physical bodies like you see now, but that will all be changed. thats my perspective on your comment, on a female God. p.s. christianity is the most liberating religion for women, Jesus talked to the samiritan woman, and this was two evils, one was talking to a woman in public, the other was talking to a samaritan women when He was Jewish, WE all know the saying "cast the first stone" these are quotes from Jesus as he talks to a female prostitute. again without christianity women would be stuck with veils over their heads similiar to palastinian women, and not only that, but only in america a predominantly Christian influence government, does women have a right to vote, tell me of another country that does than, yes my dear you are very precious to God, He loves women, in fact the church of Christ is depicted as the WIFE of God, so no HE is not female, but the church as a whole is considered female, and so He does have an important place AS QUEEN in HEaven , On womens liberation , thats my perspective grady little Mail Plus – Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 22, 2002 Report Share Posted November 22, 2002 In a message dated 11/22/2002 11:33:05 PM Eastern Standard Time, conte (AT) iowatelecom (DOT) net writes: 1 Peter Peter orders all wives to be "in subjection" to their husbands. 3:1 Wives are to use "chaste conversation, coupled with fear." They are not to braid their hair, wear gold, or put on any "apparel." They are to do these things in imitation of the "holy" women of the Old testament who were "in subjection to their won husbands: even as Sarah obeyed Abraham, calling him Lord." 3:2-6 In relation to her husband, the wife is "the weaker vessel." 3:7 And if we are very good at it, we can make the man believe this is true, although we know the Truth! Only 144,000 celibate men will be saved. (Those who were not "defiled with women.") 14:3-4 No, that would be 144,001 to be exact. The great harlot is described as being "full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication." She has a rather large and prominent sign on her forehead, Not really that large. Just a small chicken pox scar. she will get drunken with the blood of saints and martyrs, she will be made "desolate and naked," and her flesh will be eaten and burned with fire. 17:1- 16 Yeah, but what a good time! Have many stories to tell my grandchildren someday. All nations "have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication" and kings has "waxed rich through ... her delicacies." 18:3 The "great whore" corrupted the earth with her fornication. 19:2 Shivaram Well that's a bit judgemental....but ok...can handle it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 22, 2002 Report Share Posted November 22, 2002 Is there a problem... with the original language from which the translation is derived? The actual name of God referred to in this psalm was YHWH, originally the God of the Volcano, who became the God of War to the Hebiru, who became the Warrior God and Law-Give as the Warrior God who brought salvation to the Hebiru who in the Egyptian captivity became Hebrew. Such a God was definitely male. The female aspect was handled as the "Glory" or the "Shekinah". Originally a consort, she became an aspect of God: the male aspect becoming the saviour and the female aspect becoming the glory. In the union of Saviour and Glory the son was born to revive the mission of salvation for the people in human form. Before attacking the use of language in a culture not your own, please look deeper and examine the truth of the situation. Things are not always as they appear. Indeed, have a look at the translation without the sexist use of the word He and substitute "It" in the translation. That's not in the original language, but it does move the translation to the Absolute, beyond gender. But from the analysis, gender in fact was appropriate. Please don't let YOUR agenda confuse the intentions of poetry in another culture and another language. You may bemoan what is in another setting, but don't demand it of that culture. In your own culture begin creating language and style for the time in which you live and don't try to rewrite the spiritual intentions of another. Instead try to understand it. Just a suggestion meant most kindly, Namaste, John L. , "saktidasa" <saktidasa> wrote: > , "Gloria Lee" <glee@c...> wrote: > > > > - > > Joseph Riley > > Panhala > > Thursday, November 14, 2002 5:10 PM > > [Panhala] Psalm 93 > > > > > > > > > > God acts within every moment > > and creates the world with each breath. > > He speaks from the center of the universe, > > in the silence beyond all thought. > > Mightier than the crash of a thunderstorm, > > mightier than the roar of the sea, > > is God's voice silently speaking > > in the depths of the listening heart. > > > > Psalm 93 > > ( translation by Stephen Mitchell) > > Namaste, > > I know the Psalms are a mixture of several female and male writers, > but why emphasise that God is a Male? I find it interesting that in > contradiction to most religions, the Semitic Religions, do not build > up the Goddess/Sakti. This has led us down a rather uninspiring road. > It is all concepts I know but, in the East, God is thought of male > only to the extent that he creates nothing at all, and the Creator of > the Universe is the Sakti or Female Goddess, bringing forth and > giving birth, which the male cannot do. > This doesn't take anything away from the poetry of the psalms whoever > wrote them..........Om Sakti......Saktidass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 22, 2002 Report Share Posted November 22, 2002 , "John Logan" <johnrloganis> wrote: > Is there a problem... > with the original language from which the translation is derived? > > The actual name of God referred to in this psalm was YHWH, originally > the God of the Volcano, who became the God of War to the Hebiru, who > became the Warrior God and Law-Give as the Warrior God who brought > salvation to the Hebiru who in the Egyptian captivity became Hebrew. > Such a God was definitely male. The female aspect was handled as > the "Glory" or the "Shekinah". Originally a consort, she became an > aspect of God: the male aspect becoming the saviour and the female > aspect becoming the glory. In the union of Saviour and Glory the son > was born to revive the mission of salvation for the people in human > form. > > Before attacking the use of language in a culture not your own, > please look deeper and examine the truth of the situation. Things are > not always as they appear. > > Indeed, have a look at the translation without the sexist use of the > word He and substitute "It" in the translation. That's not in the > original language, but it does move the translation to the Absolute, > beyond gender. But from the analysis, gender in fact was appropriate. > > Please don't let YOUR agenda confuse the intentions of poetry in > another culture and another language. You may bemoan what is in > another setting, but don't demand it of that culture. In your own > culture begin creating language and style for the time in which you > live and don't try to rewrite the spiritual intentions of another. > Instead try to understand it. > > Just a suggestion meant most kindly, > Namaste, > John L. Namaste. If you are talking to me, I don't recognise the description or the folk lore legend you have recounted. I have no agenda at all, unless Truth is one. I am just making an observation not an attack, not supporting something doens't mean one is attacking it.....OS Saktidass Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 22, 2002 Report Share Posted November 22, 2002 11/22/2002 5:45:57 PM, grady little <gradyll wrote: >p.s. christianity is the most liberating religion for >women, Jesus talked to the samiritan woman, and this >was two evils, one was talking to a woman in public, >the other was talking to a samaritan women when He was >Jewish, WE all know the saying "cast the first stone" > >these are quotes from Jesus as he talks to a female >prostitute. > >again without christianity women would be stuck with >veils over their heads similiar to palastinian women, >and not only that, but only in america a predominantly >Christian influence government, does women have a >right to vote, tell me of another country that does >than, yes my dear you are very precious to God, He >loves women, in fact the church of Christ is depicted >as the WIFE of God, so no HE is not female, but the >church as a whole is considered female, and so He does >have an important place AS QUEEN in HEaven , > >On womens liberation , thats my perspective Here is your God's perspective: Matthew Jesus says that divorce is permissible when the wife is guilty of fornication. But what if the husband is unfaithful? Jesus doesn't seem to care about that. 5:32 When Jesus' mother and brothers want to see him, Jesus rudely asks, "Who is my mother? Who are my brothers?" So much for Jesus' family values. 12:47-49 Abandon your wife and children for Jesus and he'll give you a big reward. 19:29 "Woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days." Why? Does God especially hate pregnant and nursing women? 24:19 Jesus apparently approves of polygamy since he tells, without comment, a parable involving ten virgins and one bridegroom. 25:1 Mark Jesus shows disrespect for his mother and family by asking, "Who is my mother, or my brethren?" when he is told that his family wants to speak with him. 3:31-34 Jesus will reward men who abandon their wives and families. 10:29-30 In the last days God will make things especially rough on pregnant women. 13:17 Luke Even Mary had to be "purified" after giving birth to Jesus. Was she defiled by giving birth to the Son of God? 2:22 Males are holy to God, not females. 2:23 Jesus, when told that his mother and brothers want to see him, ignores and insults them by saying that his mother and brothers are those who hear the word of God and do it. 8:20-21 Abandon your wife and family for Jesus and he'll give you a big reward. 18:29-30 John Jesus speaks rudely to his mother, saying: "Woman, what have I to do with thee?" 2:4 Jesus tells Mary Magdalene not to touch him because he hasn't yet ascended -- as if the touch of a woman would defile him and somehow prevent him from ascending into heaven. 20:17 Romans Paul explains that "the natural use" of women is to act as sexual objects for the pleasure of men. 1:27 1 Corinthians Paul would prefer that no one marry. but he says "to avoid fornication, let every man have his own wife." 7:1-2 Paul says "the head of the woman is the man," meaning that the women are to be subordinate to men. 11:3 Women must cover their heads in church. 11:5-6 Men are made in "the image and glory of God," but not women; they are "the glory" of men. Paul concludes that women are made from and for men. 11:7- 9 Women are commanded by Paul to be silent in church and to be obedient to men. He further says that "if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in church." 14:34-35 Ephesians Paul orders wives to submit themselves to their husbands "in every thing" as though they were gods. "For the husband is the head of the wife." 5:22-24 Colossians Wives, according to Paul, must submit themselves to their husbands. 3:18 1 Timothy Women are to dress modestly, "with shamefacedness" -- "not with braided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array." 2:9 Paul forbids women to teach or "to usurp authority over" men. Rather they are to "learn [from men] in silence with all subjection [to men]." 2:11-12 Men are superior to women in Paul's eyes, since Adam was made before, and sinned after, Eve. But even though women are inferior to men, Paul says they shouldn't be discouraged because they shall "be saved in childbearing." 2:14-15 "A bishop must be ... the husband of one wife." Apparently, it's OK for laymen to have several. 3:2 Real widows are "desolate" and pray "night and day." But those widows that experience pleasure are "dead while [they] live." 5:5-6 You should help a widow only if she : 1) is over 70 years old, 2) had only one husband, 3) has raised children, 4) has lodged strangers, 5) has "washed the saints feet," 6) has relieved the afflicted, and 7) has "diligently followed very good work." Otherwise, let them starve. "But the younger widows refuse [to help]: for ... they will marry; having damnation." Besides the young widows are always idle tattlers -- "busybodies, spreading things which they ought not." He adds that "some are already turned aside after Satan." 5:9-15 2 Timothy In the last days, "silly women" who are "ever learning" will be "led away with divers lusts." 3:6-7 Titus Even old women must be "obedient to their own husbands." 2:3, 5 1 Peter Peter orders all wives to be "in subjection" to their husbands. 3:1 Wives are to use "chaste conversation, coupled with fear." They are not to braid their hair, wear gold, or put on any "apparel." They are to do these things in imitation of the "holy" women of the Old testament who were "in subjection to their won husbands: even as Sarah obeyed Abraham, calling him Lord." 3:2-6 In relation to her husband, the wife is "the weaker vessel." 3:7 2 Peter Peter describes Lot, who in Gen.19:8 offers his two virgin daughters to a crowd of angel rapers and later (19:30-38) impregnates them, as a "righteous man." 2:8 Revelation Jezebel (whom God had thrown off a wall, trampled by horses, and eaten by dogs [2 Kg.9:33-37]) is further reviled by John, saying "that woman Jezebel" taught and seduced God's "servants to commit fornication." 2:20 Jesus will "cast her [Jezebel] into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her." 2:22 Only 144,000 celibate men will be saved. (Those who were not "defiled with women.") 14:3-4 The great harlot is described as being "full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication." She has a rather large and prominent sign on her forehead, she will get drunken with the blood of saints and martyrs, she will be made "desolate and naked," and her flesh will be eaten and burned with fire. 17:1- 16 All nations "have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication" and kings has "waxed rich through ... her delicacies." 18:3 The "great whore" corrupted the earth with her fornication. 19:2 Shivaram ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ A pair of English boots inflates even a languid man with the delight of vanity. He immediately begins to whistle. -Sri Ramakrishna ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 22, 2002 Report Share Posted November 22, 2002 Respectfully to all members: This list does not support members throwing mud at each other's religion and/or trying to prove their religion or their god superior in some way. members have traditionally belonged to a variety of religions and spiritual traditions and have gotten along well in friendship. Please read the charter and policies of the list carefully and then decide if this list is the appropriate outlet for your thoughts. We are dedicated to the teachings of Sri Ramana Maharshi and the philosophy of nonviolence. If you do not resonate with such thoughts and teachings, please find a more suitable list for your discussions. Thank you God bless you all Harsha ===== /join Mail Plus – Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.