Ramana and Aurbindo

[Guest guest]

Passing this on from the Ramanamaharshi list. Thanks

Alton.

 

"THE \"SELF\"" <leenalton@h...>

Fri Dec 6, 2002 5:37 pm

Ramana and Sri Aurobindo differences

 

 

The Power of the Presence PART ONE

 

In this excerpt from David Godman's new book, Swami

Madhavatirtha recalls a conversation in which Ramana

Maharshi explained the differences between his

teachings and Sri Aurobindo's.

 

By DAVID GODMAN

 

One day, during the second week of my stay, I was

standing near the northern gate that leads to the hill

path. With me was a devotee who had returned the

previous day from Sri Aurobindo's ashram. It was

evening and Sri Maharshi came by that way after his

usual evening stroll. I wanted to ask him

about his views on the theory of creation and the

presence of the devotee who had returned from Sri

Aurobindo's ashram prompted me to refer to Sri

Aurobindo's views on the subject. I may say here that

I am well acquainted with Sri Aurobindo's philosophy,

for during my earlier visits to him some

twenty-five years ago I used to discuss with him

freely about these spiritual subjects. By way of an

introduction, I asked the Maharshi whether he upheld

the vedantic views on creation that were promulgated

by Adi-Sankaracharya. After that we moved on to a

discussion about Sri Aurobindo's world view.

 

Q: In the Vedanta of Sri Sankaracharya, the principle

of the creation of the world has been accepted for the

sake of beginners, but for the advanced, the principle

of non-creation is put forward. What is your view in

this matter?

 

M: Na nirodha na chotpattir

Nabaddho na cha sadhakaha

Na mumukshur na vai mukta

Ityesha paramarthata

 

 

This sloka appears in the second chapter [v. 32,

vaithathya prakarana] of Gaudapada's Karika [a

commentary on the Mandukyopanishad]. It means really

that there is no creation and no dissolution. There is

no bondage, no one doing spiritual practices, no one

seeking spiritual liberation, and no one who is

liberated. One who is established in the Self sees

this by his knowledge of reality.

 

Q: Sri Aurobindo believes that the human body is not

the last on this earth. Establishment in the Self,

according to him, is not perfectly attained in a human

body, for Self-knowledge does not operate there in its

natural way. Therefore the vijnanamaya sarira [the

body made of pure knowledge]1 in which Self-knowledge

can work naturally must be brought down on this earth.

 

M: Self-knowledge can shine very well in the human

body, so there is no need of any other body.

 

Q: Sri Aurobindo believes that the vijnanamaya sarira

will not be attacked by disease, will not grow old,

and will not die without one's desire.

 

M: The body itself is a disease. To wish for a long

stay of that disease is not the aim of the jnani.

Anyhow, one has to give up identification with the

body. Just as the I-am-the-body consciousness prevents

one from attaining Self-knowledge, in the same way,

one who has got the conviction that he is not

the body will become liberated even if he doesn't

desire it.

 

Q: Sri Aurobindo wants to bring the power of God into

the human body.

 

M: If, after surrendering, one still has this desire,

then surrender has not been successful. If one has the

attitude, 'If the higher power is to come down, it

must come into my body', this will only increase

identification with the body. Truly speaking, there is

no need of any such descent. After the destruction of

the I-am-the-body idea, the individual becomes the

form of the absolute. In that state, there is no above

or below, front or back.

 

Q: If the individual becomes the form of the absolute,

then who will enjoy the bliss of the absolute? To

enjoy the bliss of the absolute, we must be slightly

separate from it, like the fly that tastes sugar from

a little distance.

 

M: The bliss of the absolute is the bliss of one's own

nature. It is not born, nor has it been created.

Pleasure that is created is sure to be destroyed.

Sugar, being insentient, cannot give its own taste.

The fly has to keep a little distance to taste it. But

the absolute is awareness and consciousness. It can

give its own bliss, but its nature cannot be

understood

without attaining that state.

 

Q: Sri Aurobindo wants to bring down on the earth a

new divine race.

 

M: Whatever is to be attained in the future is to be

understood as impermanent. Learn to understand

properly what you have now so that there will

be no need of thinking about the future.

 

Q: Sri Aurobindo says that God has created various

kinds of worlds and is still going to create a new

world.

 

M: Our present world itself is not real. Each one sees

a different imaginary world according to his

imagination, so where is the guarantee that

the new world will be real? The jiva [the individual

person], the world and God, all of these are relative

ideas. So long as there is the individual sense of

'I', these three are also there.

>From this individual sense of 'I', from the mind,

these three have arisen. If you stop the mind, the

three will not remain, but Brahman alone will

remain, as it remains and abides even now. We see

things because of an error. This misperception will be

rectified by enquiring into the real nature of this

jiva. Even if the jiva enters Supermind, it will

remain in mind, but after surrendering the mind, there

will be nothing left but Brahman. Whether this

world is real or unreal, consciousness or inert, a

place of happiness or a place of misery, all these

states arise in the state of ignorance. They are not

useful after realisation.

 

The state of Atmanishta [being fixed in the Self],

devoid of the individual feeling of 'I', is the

supreme state. In this state there is no room

for thinking of objects, nor for this feeling of

individual being. There is no doubt of any kind in

this natural state of being-consciousness-bliss.

 

So long as there is the perception of name and form in

oneself, God will appear with form, but when the

vision of the formless reality is achieved

there will be no modifications of seer, seeing and

seen. That vision is the nature of consciousness

itself, non-dual and undivided. It is limitless,

infinite and perfect.

 

When the individual sense of 'I' arises in the body,

the world is seen. If this sense is absent, who then

will see the world?

 

 

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