Guest guest Posted December 16, 2002 Report Share Posted December 16, 2002 Hi Grady: , grady little <gradyll> wrote: > Also: just for you intellectuals out there, we are > interested in a debate for learning purposes in > february in Modesto (Central California), > > IS there anyone who is a professor > > number one and secondly > > is apt to debate a > > creation scientist on the forum > > of > > a non-theological debate > > of > > Scientific Creationism vs Neo Darwinial Evolutionary > Theory, as it relates to the origin of man. Could you post something about what this debate could be about? I mean what is Scientific Creationism and what is Darwinial Evolutionary Theory and how do they conflict in your opinion. To me the structured world is imaginary and exists only in my mind. Logic tells me that the imaginary has no beginning. That is I can't have a definition of a beginning that does not exist except as an idea. Love Bobby G. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 16, 2002 Report Share Posted December 16, 2002 , "texasbg2000 <Bigbobgraham@a...>" <Bigbobgraham@a...> wrote: > Hi Grady: Namaste, There is an evolution of consciousness but in the material world there is an evolution of creation.......ONS/OS....Saktidass/Tony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 16, 2002 Report Share Posted December 16, 2002 , "saktidasa <saktidasa>" <saktidasa> wrote: > , "texasbg2000 > <Bigbobgraham@a...>" <Bigbobgraham@a...> wrote: > > Hi Grady: > > > Namaste, > > There is an evolution of consciousness but in the material world > there is an evolution of creation.......ONS/OS....Saktidass/Tony hi Saktidass: I can see how consciousness becomes accessable to the physical world through evolution. People can evolve with effort. Or we can exert effort and devolve. At some point we see the sense of involution, going back through the doorway we came in by, which is my take on atma vichara. Change would be one dimensional if evolution did not build a more sophisticated creation. Love Bobby G. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 16, 2002 Report Share Posted December 16, 2002 well sir, if the structured world as you say is "imaginary" then your questions ought to be directed toward yourself, for I am just part of your imagination. --- "texasbg2000 <bigbobgraham" <bigbobgraham wrote: > Hi Grady: > > , grady little > <gradyll> > wrote: > > Also: just for you intellectuals out there, we > are > > interested in a debate for learning purposes in > > february in Modesto (Central California), > > > > IS there anyone who is a professor > > > > number one and secondly > > > > is apt to debate a > > > > creation scientist on the forum > > > > of > > > > a non-theological debate > > > > of > > > > Scientific Creationism vs Neo Darwinial > Evolutionary > > Theory, as it relates to the origin of man. > > Could you post something about what this debate > could be about? I > mean what is Scientific Creationism and what is > Darwinial > Evolutionary Theory and how do they conflict in your > opinion. > > To me the structured world is imaginary and exists > only in my mind. > Logic tells me that the imaginary has no beginning. > That is I can't > have a definition of a beginning that does not exist > except as an > idea. > > Love > Bobby G. ></gradyll></bigbobgraham</bigbobgraham Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 16, 2002 Report Share Posted December 16, 2002 evolution I believe is only in the consciousness, not in the material world. --- "saktidasa <saktidasa" <saktidasa wrote: > , "texasbg2000 > <bigbobgraham@a...>" <bigbobgraham@a...> wrote: > > Hi Grady: > > > Namaste, > > There is an evolution of consciousness but in the > material world > there is an evolution of > creation.......ONS/OS....Saktidass/</bigbobgraham@a...></bigbobgraham@a...> </saktidasa</saktidasa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 17, 2002 Report Share Posted December 17, 2002 , grady little <gradyll> wrote: > evolution I believe is only in the consciousness, not > in the material world. > > > --- "saktidasa <saktidasa>" > <saktidasa> wrote: > > , "texasbg2000 > > <Bigbobgraham@a...>" <Bigbobgraham@a...> wrote: > > > Hi Grady: > > > > > > Namaste, > > > > There is an evolution of consciousness but in the > > material world > > there is an evolution of > > creation.......ONS/OS....Saktidass/Tony Namaste, Everything is in imagination, but not the individual imagination per se, but the imagination of Saguna Brahman. As Sankara says it is real whilst one is in it. Evolution if looked at as a way of manifestation is real enough and has validity. Even a sperm and ovum evolve over nine months to be a human etc. So evolution goes hand in hand with any other theory such as creationism, which is the theory of the basic understanding. That something somewhere created all this. Second theory is that it arises as we perceive it and the final truth is that it didn't happen at all..........ONS....OS...Saktidass/Tony. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 17, 2002 Report Share Posted December 17, 2002 , grady little <gradyll> wrote: > well sir, if the structured world as you say is > > "imaginary" > > then your questions ought to be directed toward > yourself, for I am just part of your imagination. > I think you must believe that this thought about the world being imaginary is a joke of some kind. It is not. A dream is imaginary compared to my everyday life. A dream is real compared to a dogs experience of a computer ( it has none because it does not differentiate a computer from the background). Directing my remarks at myself is exactly what I am doing. It keeps me from being upset with others and keeps me wanting their good will towards me. It implies a lack of boundaries that cause uncounted problems. Many people would benefit by realizing their remarks are made to themselves. I know that I believe your remarks are for your own benefit and I learn by imagining I am making your remarks. Love Bobby G. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 17, 2002 Report Share Posted December 17, 2002 well I am one part of yourself that entirely disagrees with you, does this make you schitophrenic? I don't think you are joking, I know you are serious If this world is all in your head, then you are one messed up dude. because you could have fixed it. --- "texasbg2000 <bigbobgraham" <bigbobgraham wrote: > , grady little > <gradyll> > wrote: > > well sir, if the structured world as you say is > > > > "imaginary" > > > > then your questions ought to be directed toward > > yourself, for I am just part of your imagination. > > > I think you must believe that this thought about > the world being > imaginary is a joke of some kind. It is not. > > A dream is imaginary compared to my everyday life. > A dream is real > compared to a dogs experience of a computer ( it has > none because it > does not differentiate a computer from the > background). > > Directing my remarks at myself is exactly what I am > doing. It keeps > me from being upset with others and keeps me wanting > their good will > towards me. It implies a lack of boundaries that > cause uncounted > problems. > > Many people would benefit by realizing their remarks > are made to > themselves. I know that I believe your remarks are > for your own > benefit and I learn by imagining I am making your > remarks. > > Love > Bobby G. </gradyll> </bigbobgraham</bigbobgraham Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 19, 2002 Report Share Posted December 19, 2002 , grady little <gradyll> wrote: > well I am one part of yourself that entirely disagrees > with you, does this make you schitophrenic? > > I don't think you are joking, I know you are serious > > If this world is all in your head, then you are one > messed up dude. > > because you could have fixed it. That's good Grady. You made me chuckle. Thinking I could fix it or that I made it does not follow from what I said,"To me the structured world is imaginary and exists only in my mind." It seems obvious to people that something happens and we either are right about it or wrong. To me Everything that happens must be placed in context within the structure that a person has adopted in their life. The structure is imaginary and will vary from person to person. Absolutes in my structure do not exist. For instance the color red can change. The theory of Simultaneous Contrast known by artists for centuries, states that "A bright color placed on a neutral will produce the complement of the bright color in the neutral". The complement of a color is its opposite. For red it is green, for blue it is orange, and for yellow it is purple. it is easy to prove and i have demonstrated it to classrooms. Take a red dircle and place it on a grey card. The grey will appear greenish. Remove the red and replace it with a green dot and the grey will appear reddish. The same color grey has changed. What was green became red because of its relationship to another color. A spectograph will read the same wavelength for the color but the mind is suited in a software program if you want to call it that, that produces relationships and presents that to the memory as if it were an objective reality. The mind can only see relationships and fails miserably with absolutes. Love Bobby G. > > > > --- "texasbg2000 <bigbobgraham@a...>" > <bigbobgraham@a...> wrote: > > , grady little > > <gradyll> > > wrote: > > > well sir, if the structured world as you say is > > > > > > "imaginary" > > > > > > then your questions ought to be directed toward > > > yourself, for I am just part of your imagination. > > > > > I think you must believe that this thought about > > the world being > > imaginary is a joke of some kind. It is not. > > > > A dream is imaginary compared to my everyday life. > > A dream is real > > compared to a dogs experience of a computer ( it has > > none because it > > does not differentiate a computer from the > > background). > > > > Directing my remarks at myself is exactly what I am > > doing. It keeps > > me from being upset with others and keeps me wanting > > their good will > > towards me. It implies a lack of boundaries that > > cause uncounted > > problems. > > > > Many people would benefit by realizing their remarks > > are made to > > themselves. I know that I believe your remarks are > > for your own > > benefit and I learn by imagining I am making your > > remarks. > > > > Love > > Bobby G. </gradyll> </bigbobgraham@a...></bigbobgraham@a...></gradyll> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 22, 2002 Report Share Posted December 22, 2002 this color thing, all I know is that my printer has only four colors, I said three before I was wrong there is black, Blue Red and yellow, with these three we can mix them and come up with hundreds of colors, each of those colors are not original and new colors, they are different shades of red, this is obvious. Cyan (blue) magenta (red) and yellow (yellow) these are primary colors, red is still red, 2 plus two equals four always and forever this is why there is absolutely only one way to heaven JESUS CHRIST thats my oppinion and this is the Bibles oppinion what is yours? --- "texasbg2000 <bigbobgraham" <bigbobgraham wrote: > , grady little > <gradyll> > wrote: > > well I am one part of yourself that entirely > disagrees > > with you, does this make you schitophrenic? > > > > I don't think you are joking, I know you are > serious > > > > If this world is all in your head, then you are > one > > messed up dude. > > > > because you could have fixed it. > > That's good Grady. You made me chuckle. > > Thinking I could fix it or that I made it does not > follow from what I > said,"To me the structured world is imaginary and > exists only in my > mind." > > It seems obvious to people that something happens > and we either are > right about it or wrong. To me Everything that > happens must be > placed in context within the structure that a person > has adopted in > their life. The structure is imaginary and will > vary from person to > person. > > Absolutes in my structure do not exist. For > instance the color red > can change. > > The theory of Simultaneous Contrast known by artists > for centuries, > states that "A bright color placed on a neutral will > produce the > complement of the bright color in the neutral". The > complement of a > color is its opposite. For red it is green, for blue > it is orange, > and for yellow it is purple. > > it is easy to prove and i have demonstrated it to > classrooms. Take a > red dircle and place it on a grey card. The grey > will appear > greenish. Remove the red and replace it with a > green dot and the > grey will appear reddish. The same color grey has > changed. What was > green became red because of its relationship to > another color. > > A spectograph will read the same wavelength for the > color but the > mind is suited in a software program if you want to > call it that, > that produces relationships and presents that to the > memory as if it > were an objective reality. > > The mind can only see relationships and fails > miserably with > absolutes. > > Love > Bobby G. > > > > > > > > > --- "texasbg2000 <bigbobgraham@a...>" > > <bigbobgraham@a...> wrote: > > > , grady</bigbobgraham@a...></bigbobgraham@a...> > little > > > <gradyll> > > > wrote: > > > > well sir, if the structured world as you say</gradyll> > is > > > > > > > > "imaginary" > > > > > > > > then your questions ought to be directed > toward > > > > yourself, for I am just part of your > imagination. > > > > > > > I think you must believe that this thought > about > > > the world being > > > imaginary is a joke of some kind. It is not. > > > > > > A dream is imaginary compared to my everyday > life. > > > A dream is real > > > compared to a dogs experience of a computer ( it > has > > > none because it > > > does not differentiate a computer from the > > > background). > > > > > > Directing my remarks at myself is exactly what I > am > > > doing. It keeps > > > me from being upset with others and keeps me > wanting > > > their good will > > > towards me. It implies a lack of boundaries > that > > > cause uncounted > > > problems. > > > > > > Many people would benefit by realizing their > remarks > > > are made to > > > themselves. I know that I believe your remarks > are > > > for your own > > > benefit and I learn by imagining I am making > your > > > remarks. > > > > > > Love > > > Bobby G. </gradyll> </bigbobgraham</bigbobgraham Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 22, 2002 Report Share Posted December 22, 2002 Grady wrote: >this color thing, ... O' Grady, what trouble it can bring!!! > all I know is that my printer has only four colors, I > said three before I was wrong Admitting we are wrong can sometimes take us very long :-) > there is black, > > Blue > > Red> > and yellow, with these three we can mix them and come up with > hundreds of colors,> > each of those colors are not original and new colors,... > red is still red, > my head is still my head... > 2 plus two equals four> 3..4...Shut the door... > always and forever Never say Never > > this is why there is absolutely only one way to heaven> > JESUS CHRIST> > thats my oppinion> > and this is the Bibles oppinion > > what is yours? My opinion is that Love is Heaven... You are Heaven... I am Heaven... All Good Children Go to Heaven... what is yours? Love to you, O' Grady, Joyce Jean Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 22, 2002 Report Share Posted December 22, 2002 Hi Grady: I was just pointing out that if you try to pin down something as an absolute even something as seemingly obvious as a color you must fail. All perception is based on relationships. In order to understand something you must have something to compare it to. Numbers are only relationships. Two does not exist. This should be obvious. You can have two apples or oranges but not just two. It is an idea that is used to point to a relationship. The system by which these relationships exist can be complex but while the answer to two plus two will always come up four (as far as I know) It is just proof that we can rely on relationships. No absolute is really described here. Music cannot exist without relationships between notes. The same note can be sour or sweet depending on the notes around it. Why should we believe that colors would remain the same regardless of what it is seen with? Love Bobby G. , grady little <gradyll> wrote: > this color thing, > > all I know is that my printer has only four colors, I > said three before I was wrong > > there is black, > > Blue > > Red > > and yellow, > > with these three we can mix them and come up with > hundreds of colors, > > each of those colors are not original and new colors, > > they are different shades of red, > > this is obvious. > > Cyan (blue) > > magenta (red) > and yellow (yellow) > > these are primary colors, > > red is still red, > > 2 plus two equals four > > always and forever > > this is why there is absolutely only one way to heaven > > JESUS CHRIST > > thats my oppinion > > and this is the Bibles oppinion > > > what is yours? > > > > > --- "texasbg2000 <bigbobgraham@a...>" > <bigbobgraham@a...> wrote: > > , grady little > > <gradyll> > > wrote: > > > well I am one part of yourself that entirely > > disagrees > > > with you, does this make you schitophrenic? > > > > > > I don't think you are joking, I know you are > > serious > > > > > > If this world is all in your head, then you are > > one > > > messed up dude. > > > > > > because you could have fixed it. > > > > That's good Grady. You made me chuckle. > > > > Thinking I could fix it or that I made it does not > > follow from what I > > said,"To me the structured world is imaginary and > > exists only in my > > mind." > > > > It seems obvious to people that something happens > > and we either are > > right about it or wrong. To me Everything that > > happens must be > > placed in context within the structure that a person > > has adopted in > > their life. The structure is imaginary and will > > vary from person to > > person. > > > > Absolutes in my structure do not exist. For > > instance the color red > > can change. > > > > The theory of Simultaneous Contrast known by artists > > for centuries, > > states that "A bright color placed on a neutral will > > produce the > > complement of the bright color in the neutral". The > > complement of a > > color is its opposite. For red it is green, for blue > > it is orange, > > and for yellow it is purple. > > > > it is easy to prove and i have demonstrated it to > > classrooms. Take a > > red dircle and place it on a grey card. The grey > > will appear > > greenish. Remove the red and replace it with a > > green dot and the > > grey will appear reddish. The same color grey has > > changed. What was > > green became red because of its relationship to > > another color. > > > > A spectograph will read the same wavelength for the > > color but the > > mind is suited in a software program if you want to > > call it that, > > that produces relationships and presents that to the > > memory as if it > > were an objective reality. > > > > The mind can only see relationships and fails > > miserably with > > absolutes. > > > > Love > > Bobby G. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- "texasbg2000 <bigbobgraham@a...>" > > > <bigbobgraham@a...> wrote: > > > > , grady</bigbobgraham@a...></bigbobgraham@a...> > > little > > > > <gradyll> > > > > wrote: > > > > > well sir, if the structured world as you say</gradyll> > > is > > > > > > > > > > "imaginary" > > > > > > > > > > then your questions ought to be directed > > toward > > > > > yourself, for I am just part of your > > imagination. > > > > > > > > > I think you must believe that this thought > > about > > > > the world being > > > > imaginary is a joke of some kind. It is not. > > > > > > > > A dream is imaginary compared to my everyday > > life. > > > > A dream is real > > > > compared to a dogs experience of a computer ( it > > has > > > > none because it > > > > does not differentiate a computer from the > > > > background). > > > > > > > > Directing my remarks at myself is exactly what I > > am > > > > doing. It keeps > > > > me from being upset with others and keeps me > > wanting > > > > their good will > > > > towards me. It implies a lack of boundaries > > that > > > > cause uncounted > > > > problems. > > > > > > > > Many people would benefit by realizing their > > remarks > > > > are made to > > > > themselves. I know that I believe your remarks > > are > > > > for your own > > > > benefit and I learn by imagining I am making > > your > > > > remarks. > > > > > > > > Love > > > > Bobby G. </gradyll> </bigbobgraham@a...></bigbobgraham@a...></gradyll> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 24, 2002 Report Share Posted December 24, 2002 well next time you get pulled over for running a magenta light, try to tell him it's not really red. see how far you get. --- "texasbg2000 <bigbobgraham" <bigbobgraham wrote: > Hi Grady: > > I was just pointing out that if you try to pin down > something as an > absolute even something as seemingly obvious as a > color you must > fail. All perception is based on relationships. In > order to > understand something you must have something to > compare it to. > > Numbers are only relationships. Two does not exist. > This should be > obvious. You can have two apples or oranges but not > just two. It is > an idea that is used to point to a relationship. > The system by which > these relationships exist can be complex but while > the answer to two > plus two will always come up four (as far as I know) > It is just proof > that we can rely on relationships. No absolute is > really described > here. > > Music cannot exist without relationships between > notes. The same > note can be sour or sweet depending on the notes > around it. Why > should we believe that colors would remain the same > regardless of > what it is seen with? > > Love > Bobby G. > > , grady little > <gradyll> > wrote: > > this color thing, > > > > all I know is that my printer has only four > colors, I > > said three before I was wrong > > > > there is black, > > > > Blue > > > > Red > > > > and yellow, > > > > with these three we can mix them and come up with > > hundreds of colors, > > > > each of those colors are not original and new > colors, > > > > they are different shades of red, > > > > this is obvious. > > > > Cyan (blue) > > > > magenta (red) > > and yellow (yellow) > > > > these are primary colors, > > > > red is still red, > > > > 2 plus two equals four > > > > always and forever > > > > this is why there is absolutely only one way to > heaven > > > > JESUS CHRIST > > > > thats my oppinion > > > > and this is the Bibles oppinion > > > > > > what is yours? > > > > > > > > > > --- "texasbg2000 <bigbobgraham@a...>" > > <bigbobgraham@a...> wrote: > > > , grady</bigbobgraham@a...></bigbobgraham@a...> > little > > > <gradyll> > > > wrote: > > > > well I am one part of yourself that entirely > > > disagrees > > > > with you, does this make you schitophrenic? > > > > > > > > I don't think you are joking, I know you are > > > serious > > > > > > > > If this world is all in your head, then you</gradyll> > are > > > one > > > > messed up dude. > > > > > > > > because you could have fixed it. > > > > > > That's good Grady. You made me chuckle. > > > > > > Thinking I could fix it or that I made it does > not > > > follow from what I > > > said,"To me the structured world is imaginary > and > > > exists only in my > > > mind." > > > > > > It seems obvious to people that something > happens > > > and we either are > > > right about it or wrong. To me Everything that > > > happens must be > > > placed in context within the structure that a > person > > > has adopted in > > > their life. The structure is imaginary and will > > > vary from person to > > > person. > > > > > > Absolutes in my structure do not exist. For > > > instance the color red > > > can change. > > > > > > The theory of Simultaneous Contrast known by > artists > > > for centuries, > > > states that "A bright color placed on a neutral > will > > > produce the > > > complement of the bright color in the neutral". > The > > > complement of a > > > color is its opposite. For red it is green, for > blue > > > it is orange, > > > and for yellow it is purple. > > > > > > it is easy to prove and i have demonstrated it > to > > > classrooms. Take a > > > red dircle and place it on a grey card. The > grey > > > will appear > > > greenish. Remove the red and replace it with a > > > green dot and the > > > grey will appear reddish. The same color grey > has > > > changed. What was > > > green became red because of its relationship to > > > another color. > > > > > > A spectograph will read the same wavelength for > the > > > color but the > > > mind is suited in a software program if you want > to > > > call it that, > > > that produces relationships and presents that to > the > > > memory as if it > > > were an objective reality. > > > > > > The mind can only see relationships and fails > > > miserably with > > > absolutes. > > > > > > Love > > > Bobby G. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- "texasbg2000 <bigbobgraham@a...>" > > > > <bigbobgraham@a...> wrote: > > > > > , grady > > > little > > > > > <gradyll> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > well sir, if the structured world as you</gradyll></bigbobgraham@a...></bigbobgraham@a...> > say > > > is > > > > > > > > > > > > "imaginary" > > > > > > > > > > > > then your questions ought to be directed > > > toward > > > > > > yourself, for I am just part of your ></gradyll> </bigbobgraham</bigbobgraham Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 24, 2002 Report Share Posted December 24, 2002 You don't get it yet... it is red! One red among many. Many shades of red. All of them nominally called red for the sake of communication. There is no one red which is the correct, true and only red. , grady little <gradyll> wrote: > well next time you get pulled over for running a > magenta light, try to tell him it's not really red. > > see how far you get. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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