Guest guest Posted December 21, 2002 Report Share Posted December 21, 2002 , "james <nisarga@c...>" <nisarga@c...> wrote: > > > Hello John, > > > Yes. Each Sutra and The Whole point to the dual nature of Oneness. > > > The 'vrt' or whirl of exploring deeper and deeper is lived - the > qualities/dual aspects of this whirl are mental and other (known and > unknown) - The Whole cannot be defined as the sum of these > qualities/aspects - it is beyond words - it can only be described with > Silence which is what Patanjali facilitates with the 'Yoga Sutras'. > > > At first this vrt is intellectual - one understands mentally... > And yet the Sutras themselves clearly state not to mentally > identify with the whirl of exploring deeper and deeper - in other > words - this is the fact of how things manifest/are structured, and > yet the deeper understanding is 'Freedom within the Structure' where > 'Freedom' is the other aspect of the dual nature of Oneness. > This comment 'Freedom within the Structure' is first understood > mentally - the living understanding is a 'Way of Being' that is in > harmony with the 'whirl' or flow of life - Silence and Sound. > > > > The clearest, simplest guide for the marriage of these different > aspects of understanding that represent the dual nature of life, is > the 'Fourfold Spiral Flow of the Breath'. > > > > The Spiral/whirl of inspiration-pause-expiration-pause is the > template for all of life. > > > > This template can be viewed as the central spiral of spirals > within spirals, within spirals...infinitely nested in opposing > directions inward and outward (like exploring the whirl deeper and > deeper inward and outward) - a simple example is dropping a pebble > into water and watching the ripples moving outward from it - at first > the water appears to be moving only outward - yet deeper investigation > reveals multidimensional movement, particularly that the water has to > move both outward and inward from/toward centre for the ripples to > appear, and that the more the movement is in harmony/resonance, the > greater the power of the ripples. > > > The inward and outward flow is inhalation and exhalation - > inhalation - stimulation, exhalation - release. This is the structure > of Patanjali's first two sutras. > > > > In this way the flow of the breath is the central spiral and as > one explores the next outer spirals (the next two sutras, and, their > relationship to the first two to represent the fourfold spiral of the > breath) one sees that the flow of the breath is punctuated by the > natural pauses (the pause after inhalation before exhalation, and the > deeper pause after exhalation before inhalation). Just as the > exhalation is to inhalation, the pauses/stillness is to the movement - > the relationship is the same the difference is in degree not in kind. > > > > The realtionship/structure is universal - the difference is in > degree not in kind. > > > Patanjali shows that 'four' is the representation of The Whole by > having four chapters and again the use of the 'vrt' which means > 'whirl' - this is a wave (which is two - inhalation and exhalation) > and its flow (movement and stillness, a 'standing wave' - two waves > moving in opposing directions to form a 'single' wave as the resonate > - the geometry of this resonance is 'phi' - the *Golden Mean*) - a > flowing wave makes a spiral (you see surfers riding on this flow - and > it is seen in the double spiral of our Milky Way Galaxy and the double > helix of our DNA - these are simply larger and smaller versions of the > central spiral - the breath - the difference is in degree). > > > So, the 'dance' of life has a clearly defined structure that > Patanjali parallels in his Yoga Sutras and through it he facilitates > the understanding that 'The Dancer is the Dance' or the 'structure and > freedom' of the Yoga Sutras is based on 'structure and freedom' - it > is the thing itself and by 'Being Itself' it facilitates sympathetic > vibration. > > > > One can be touched by this through studying the 'Yoga Sutras' > and/or when there is harmony/resonance with the flow of the breath > there is the elegance of the dance, and the dancer rests in her/his > own knowing as the Dance - Silence and Sound. > > > Love and Gratitude, > James > > > > > > , "John Logan > <johnrloganis>" <johnrloganis> wrote: > > Hi James, > > > > Thank you. > > I would like to focus on the "vritti", fluctuations, from the root > > vrt, to whirl. > > > > This is also a description of the need to "whirl deeper and deeper" > > into the meaning of the individual sutras as well a looking at them > > as a whole. This is spoken of as "penetrating deeply". > > > > Each sutra is a study in itself, but must also be taken in the > > context of the part in which it finds itself, and also in the whole > > of the Yoga Sutras as a body of work. > > > > My personal recommendation to the student is to read the entire book > > at one sitting, to get a sense of the whole, before diving into a > lot > > of analytical detail in the individual sutras. However, once one > > begins to penetrate an individual sutra, it is found that what looks > > like a sentence, a description, or information about action -- is > > actually a directive to act, to experiment and to experience. > > > > You have connected the word "Yoga" with the word "embrace". That is > > felicitious. The action as I see it is something like this: > > > > What is Now? > > What am I embracing (Yoga-ing) Now? this very minute? this very > > moment? > > What is Now beyond time? > > What am I embracing eternally? > > As I "think" about these questions, certain answers come to mind. > > Let them come. > > Are they complete? > > What does Now feel like? > > What does "embracing" feel like? > > The claim has been made that "Now" and "Yoga" are actually one. > > How does this think? > > How does this feel? > > > > These statements and questions are a stimulis to actually thinking > > about it and feeling it, doing them? > > > > Returning to the whole of the sutra: atha-yoga-anusasanam > > Now-Yoga-Exposition (or instruction) > > > > Who is being instructed? > > Who is the instructor? > > > > The Sutras themselves suggest answers: I: 23-26 is a place to start. > > There are other places where the answer to these questions is > > suggested in Part II, and in Part IV. First one searches for the > > answers in oneself, and then studying the Sutras as a whole, methods > > for "penetrating deeper" are suggested in various places. > > > > So answers are offered, but more importantly how to find the answers > > for oneself are also offered. The Sutras point to establishing the > > individual as the possessor of the final authority -- in the end in > a > > blaze of glory -- the individual disappears into the Allness. > > > > John L. > > > > , "james <nisarga@c...>" > > <nisarga@c...> wrote: > > > > > > Hello Harsha, John and Friends, > > > > > > Here is a comment that I wrote on Patanjali's first two > sutras: > > > > > > The Yoga Sutras of Patanjali are said to be his masterpiece. > > > Patanjali is credited with first creating the written > language > > > of Sanskrit, then his great work on Ayurveda and finally Yoga (no > > one > > > knows for sure if Patanjali existed or if that name represents a > > > compilation of sages wisdom). Very good start. Suitably authentic for the beginning of any study of Patanjali and good to remember while studying. In Feurerstein's translation. I.1-Now commences the expostition of Yoga. I.2- Yoga is the restriction of the fluctuations of consciousness. Then we see that without the ripples or whirlpools of thought when the mind is still, the self resides without occlusion. I.3- Then the seer [i.e. the Self] abides in [its] essence. I.4- At other times the self conforms with the fluctuations. Then he lists the five types of fluctuations or thoughts possible. He says they may be afflicted or not. It is important to remember that these are complete. If you have a thought it will be one of these types. What a boon to anyone not wanting to get trapped in a chain of thoughts. When a memory or one of the other vrittis arises, one can see it as a type thus breaking its potential to make a chain of references that breaks focus. To me this means not being at the mercy of my tendencies all the time. It is a logical starting point for anyone studying the mind to be taught to focus. I.5- The fluctuations are five-fold: afflicted or non-afflicted. (II.1 - II.10 are about the five types of afflictions, all of course caused by ignorance,i.e. confusion of the Self with the instrument of seeing, or the mind.) I.6- The five types of fluctuations are: Valid cognition, misconception, conceptualisation, sleep, and memory. Sleep is recognized as a disturbance or vritti because it embraces a void. Much Love Bobby G. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 21, 2002 Report Share Posted December 21, 2002 Greetings Bobby, Please put your post at the beginning of a reply or post. It is much easier to find. Usually I trim as much as I can and yet leave enough context to identify what I am responding to. Now, please elaborate on the idea stated below, especially sleep "embracing a void". I don't get that. Peace, John L. , "texasbg2000 <Bigbobgraham@a...>" <Bigbobgraham@a...> wrote: > Sleep is recognized as a disturbance or vritti because it embraces a void. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 22, 2002 Report Share Posted December 22, 2002 Vivekananda's translation depicts this sutra this way. He mentions we would have no memory of sleep either deep or dream, if there were no waves on the lake. I like it because sleep to me is embracing the void. I like to sleep. I guess this makes it afflicted because attraction is an affliction (II.7). I'll have to work on that. It may be useful to note that sleep is the delta brainwave indicating to me that V. had a good way of putting it. Sleep seems like an odd type of fluctuation almost an oxymoron. Anyone who meditates a lot probably knows how attractive sleep is sometimes, but when the urge is overcome the meditation can be really good. A modified eeg machine called the mind mirror draws a picture of relative proportions of brainwaves. Monks in deep meditation have been found to have a lessened beta wave (thoughts and mental activities), a huge alpha wave ( the bridge between conscious thought and what is termed the subconscious) a theta wave (subconscious, what I prefer to call blocked or noncurrent memories) about the same as the beta, and the beginnings of the delta wave. In other words the state one is in is related to the proportions of the various brainwaves. Meditation assembles them is a stable form to keep them from fluctuating. I am including part of a drawing I did outlining some of the ideas. I hope we can continue with this discussion. Love Bobby G. > Greetings Bobby, > Now, please elaborate on the idea stated below, especially > sleep "embracing a void". I don't get that. > > Peace, > John L. > Attachment: (image/gif) Fluctuations-Scan.gif [not stored] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 22, 2002 Report Share Posted December 22, 2002 Re: Patanjali. There is a danger of getting side tracked here if one is not careful, especially as the texts were obviously written by more than one person.........Om Sakti.......Saktidass. I suppose you mean sidetracked into raja yogi instead of staying in jnana yoga. Your input here would be appreciated. You are the first person I have heard say it obvious that the works of Patanjali were written by more than one person. The terse verse as it were seems pretty consistent to me. love, bobby G. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 22, 2002 Report Share Posted December 22, 2002 , "texasbg2000 <Bigbobgraham@a...>" <Bigbobgraham@a...> wrote: > Re: Patanjali. There is a danger of getting side tracked here if one > is not careful, especially as the texts were obviously written by > more than one person.........Om Sakti.......Saktidass. > > I suppose you mean sidetracked into raja yogi instead of staying in > jnana yoga. Your input here would be appreciated. > > You are the first person I have heard say it obvious that the works > of Patanjali were written by more than one person. The terse verse > as it were seems pretty consistent to me. > > love, > > bobby G. Namaste. Let me be a little more explicit. There are many translations of the yoga-sutra and many have 'slants'. Prabhavananda and Isherwood tidy up some siddhic sections and do talk a lot about Isvara/God. Whereas in the sutras God is allayed to as more of an experience. I wondered aloud about multiple authors, because that is usually the way. I notice Feurstein thinks like this also, and ponders whether the entire asta-anga section isn't an interpolation completely. He even postulates later sections being additions as well. However my real point was that for neophytes on the path, the sutras become, sometimes an investigation into tecnicalities and siddhis. That was my warning. One doesn't have to know the molecular structure of water to get out of the swimming pool. 'Who am I', will do just fine. I enjoy the sutras and they are reinforcing whether Patanjal wrote them all or his student or whatever.......Om Sakti. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 22, 2002 Report Share Posted December 22, 2002 This all seems reasonable enough to me. That is, reasonable that one speculate about the possibilities. Thanks Bobby G. > > Let me be a little more explicit. There are many translations of the > yoga-sutra and many have 'slants'. Prabhavananda and Isherwood tidy > up some siddhic sections and do talk a lot about Isvara/God. Whereas > in the sutras God is allayed to as more of an experience. > I wondered aloud about multiple authors, because that is usually the > way. I notice Feurstein thinks like this also, and ponders whether > the entire asta-anga section isn't an interpolation completely. He > even postulates later sections being additions as well. > > However my real point was that for neophytes on the path, the sutras > become, sometimes an investigation into tecnicalities and siddhis. > > That was my warning. > One doesn't have to know the molecular structure of water to get out > of the swimming pool. 'Who am I', will do just fine. > > I enjoy the sutras and they are reinforcing whether Patanjal wrote > them all or his student or whatever.......Om Sakti. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 22, 2002 Report Share Posted December 22, 2002 My understanding is that Patanjali has written a summary of the teachings of a variety of teachers and put it all together in a systematic form. Thus one editor, possibly more than one teacher, indeed a consensus of what was being taught before the memories became corrupted. John L. , "texasbg2000 <Bigbobgraham@a...>" <Bigbobgraham@a...> wrote: > This all seems reasonable enough to me. That is, reasonable that one > speculate about the possibilities. > Thanks > Bobby G. > > > > Let me be a little more explicit. There are many translations of > the > > yoga-sutra and many have 'slants'. Prabhavananda and Isherwood tidy > > up some siddhic sections and do talk a lot about Isvara/God. > Whereas > > in the sutras God is allayed to as more of an experience. > > I wondered aloud about multiple authors, because that is usually > the > > way. I notice Feurstein thinks like this also, and ponders whether > > the entire asta-anga section isn't an interpolation completely. He > > even postulates later sections being additions as well. > > > > However my real point was that for neophytes on the path, the > sutras > > become, sometimes an investigation into tecnicalities and siddhis. > > > > That was my warning. > > One doesn't have to know the molecular structure of water to get > out > > of the swimming pool. 'Who am I', will do just fine. > > > > I enjoy the sutras and they are reinforcing whether Patanjal wrote > > them all or his student or whatever.......Om Sakti. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 23, 2002 Report Share Posted December 23, 2002 I read somewhere that Patanjali laboriously went through all the vedic literature and compiled the knowledge contained in it into Yoga Sutra. Ramana realized the Self and so when he read what others had written he understood what they were saying from experience of the real thing. Trying to do it the other way, by reading and hoping it will lead one to the truth of the Self is futile IMO. One might be lead to eliminate what it is not though. It would have been easy enough for Ramana to sift through the Vedas and compile useful knowledge in systematic form but Patanjali already had. We have the blessings of many sages at our disposal and the ability to share. Aum Hosanna to the Highest. Bobby G. , "John Logan <johnrloganis>" <johnrloganis> wrote: > My understanding is that Patanjali has written a summary of the > teachings of a variety of teachers and put it all together in a > systematic form. > > Thus one editor, possibly more than one teacher, indeed a consensus > of what was being taught before the memories became corrupted. > > John L. > > , "texasbg2000 > <Bigbobgraham@a...>" <Bigbobgraham@a...> wrote: > > This all seems reasonable enough to me. That is, reasonable that > one > > speculate about the possibilities. > > Thanks > > Bobby G. > > > > > > Let me be a little more explicit. There are many translations of > > the > > > yoga-sutra and many have 'slants'. Prabhavananda and Isherwood > tidy > > > up some siddhic sections and do talk a lot about Isvara/God. > > Whereas > > > in the sutras God is allayed to as more of an experience. > > > I wondered aloud about multiple authors, because that is usually > > the > > > way. I notice Feurstein thinks like this also, and ponders > whether > > > the entire asta-anga section isn't an interpolation completely. > He > > > even postulates later sections being additions as well. > > > > > > However my real point was that for neophytes on the path, the > > sutras > > > become, sometimes an investigation into tecnicalities and siddhis. > > > > > > That was my warning. > > > One doesn't have to know the molecular structure of water to get > > out > > > of the swimming pool. 'Who am I', will do just fine. > > > > > > I enjoy the sutras and they are reinforcing whether Patanjal > wrote > > > them all or his student or whatever.......Om Sakti. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 23, 2002 Report Share Posted December 23, 2002 , "texasbg2000 <Bigbobgraham@a...>" <Bigbobgraham@a...> wrote: Trying to do it the other way, by reading and hoping it will > lead one to the truth of the Self is futile IMO. One might be lead > to eliminate what it is not though. Hi Bobby, Been there, done that. That's why I emphasize "doing it". Some people however like to look at a map before exploring the territory, while others like to jump right in and look at the map later to see where they have been, and what they may have missed. Neither one is better than the other. But as you have said, trying to read one's way to the truth of the Self only takes one to the words and not the reality. Peace, John L. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 25, 2002 Report Share Posted December 25, 2002 Modes of Mind Energy Hugh D'Andrade translates: I.6. The five modes of mind-energy (what Feuerstein calls fluctuations of Consciousness) to be mastered: Valid knowledge (accurate perception), Illusion (misconception), Fantasy (conceptualization), Sleep, and Memory. Memory is the one that interests me. Memory is what is brought forward to be repeated. Of the gunas, memory would arise out of Sattva, rhythm. In its rawest definition it is that tendency to repeat that is seen in orbits of planets. In chaos mathematics it is called scaling, as above so below. Scaling is like the similarity of the erosion of mountains rivers looking the same as the erosion in a small dirt pile. Physical reality exhibits a kind of memory. Life could not reproduce without memory, the tendency to repeat. Freud pointed out that the outstanding feature of the mind was its tendency to repeat. He speculated that mental problems were caused by the repression of the memory of trauma. The push to remember a powerful experience is so strong that the repressed memory festers, in a way, only to manifest as a set of negative trtaits, or boil over at a later time. The pain is not willingly remembered. Once the trauma is remembered the aberrant behavior caused by the repression stops. He proved it time after time. He even sought to show how whole societies can have a repression in a similar fashion. Feuerstein translates: I.11 Remembering is the non-deprivation of the experienced object. In other words memory is the mental representation of an experience and the memory is not blocked. This correlates with Freud. It also defines memory in the sense of remembering which is a real time experience instead of a mental ability. This coincides with the other definitions of fluctuations of consciousness being real time events of differing sorts. This distinction is important because elsewhere in Raja Yoga one learns of the mental abilities: logic, imagination, intuition, dreaming, and memory. Later in describing ignorance which he calls nescience (and I call stupidity): II.4. Nescience is the field of the other causes of affliction; they can be dormant, attenuated (constrained), intercepted (blocked by a covering of another type of stupidity such as anger blocks fear), or aroused (which is whatever is current). I like D'Angrade's which says: II.3. The hindrances to divine Consciousness are: ingorance, egoism, attachment, aversion, and earth bound love of life. II.4. Ignorance breeds the other hindrances (F. calls them afflictions [nescience, I-am-ness, attachment, aversion, and the will to live.], which may be dormant, attenuated, oscillating, or predominant (These refer to the state of any of the afflictions and its availability to be repeated. What F calls current, D' calls predominant. Of these of course, attenuated (controlled), is optimal.) Now I have put in my own comments in parenthesis and brackets. One problem in reading Patanjali is he refers to definitions which are located in other areas of the books. Another problem is the difference in how people understand the concepts about the mind. They should be experientially derived and not conflict with other definitions and this leads to a lot of different shades of meaning. Memory is cellular, hormonal, cultural, and experiential. The urge to repeat is strengthened by frequency and reward, and diminished by resistance. Resistance is strengthened by repetition. This is referred to later as the way to overcome obstacles, or negative traits. (II.33. and IV.28.) One implements the opposite of the trait to be diminished. In this case the willingness to repeat negative actions is overcome by implementing the opposite which is resistance. If one s to Patanjali's definition of memory there is no reason to submit a theory about a subconscious. Any comments or corrections? John, James, Jan, Joyce, Harsha anyone? Merry Christmas everyone. Love Bobby G. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 25, 2002 Report Share Posted December 25, 2002 Hello Boobby G. Merry Christmas to you, and to all the wonderful folks at satsangha. Re: memory and the modes of mind-energy... In Sutra 1.2 Patanjali says (my translation)- Yoga is the cessation of identificalion with the whirl of local mind. intrepertation: Yoga is that natural union which is 'presence' (real) when energy that has been concretized to form the barrier called ego (local mind) is no longer supported (by identifying/defining oneself in any way) and therefore dissolves. Then energy/intelligence flows unobstructed - naturally. This energy/intelligence follows the law of natural order - Love. And, one of the features of its structure is that it is scalar - as above so below...as below so above - it is a double spiral in nature and identification with any part of it is limiting, because the identification has the consequence of 'concretising' the energy to form the ego barrier (this ego barrier can be so large that some folks 'think' that they are God - in a certain way they are correct, yet identifying themselves as such is to again fall into the trap of ego). Patanjali and many other sages clearly caution about the consequences of 'identification'. Patanjali's Sutras and some other 'sacred' texts (like the 'Tao Te Ching') are unique because they are more than just text - they are the thing Itself... - in this light one does not have to understand or interpret them - in fact one would benefit from them simply by being exposed to them - much like being in the presence of a sage like Ramana - the vibratory nature of a being like Ramana has a beneficial effect on all who receive his 'Darshan'. This vibration is a wave and a spiral in nature (double spiral). The loops from 'outer' spiral rings to the localized vortex called 'you/me' have what you are calling 'memory' - it is scalar. And, while the 'outer' rings are 'beyond' the intellectual understanding - being 'open' to their vibration facilitates harmony with it because that is the essential nature of everything - (as above so below... as below so above). Another parallel to all of this is Light - what is called white light divides into the seven colours that can be perceived with the human eye (the manifested world) (this 'seven' is also re-presented [memory] in music, its octaves, and their 'scales', and/or the seven chakras of the human organism - again these are the manifest - there are ones that humans do not perceive). In this way colours, sounds, chakras, and everything else can be understood as 'memory' - everything always points to the SINGLE SOURCE of what we are, what we always have been, and always will be - Love. Love has a structure and yet it is eternally Free - this is its nature. We can 'speak' elegantly about the structure through music, words, colour, Chakras, and art - these are all still 'fingers pointing at the moon' - to identify with the structure is to focus on the fingers, and, to intellectually say ' Oh! I get it - it is about the moon, the whole or any other intellectual conclusion' is again identification with the structure. In othere words it is about realization as in - 'make it real' (without an entity that is making it real) - the Love/intelligence is its own knowing and just as Love it is very definite, it is infinitely impossible to describe Love - it can only be LIVED. The practice of Yoga is the practice of 'Union' with the law of Natural Order/Love. the central activity of all of Yoga is the 'flow' of the breath because this is the clearest, simplest, most direct 'link' with Love, because, like Patanjali's Sutras, it is not just a link it is the thing Itself - the double spiral flow of the Breath is the flow of Love. Love and Gratitude, James , "texasbg2000 <Bigbobgraham@a...>" <Bigbobgraham@a...> wrote: > Modes of Mind Energy > > Hugh D'Andrade translates: > > I.6. The five modes of mind-energy (what Feuerstein calls > fluctuations of Consciousness) to be mastered: Valid knowledge > (accurate perception), Illusion (misconception), Fantasy > (conceptualization), Sleep, and Memory. > > Memory is the one that interests me. > > Memory is what is brought forward to be repeated. Of the gunas, > memory would arise out of Sattva, rhythm. In its rawest definition > it is that tendency to repeat that is seen in orbits of planets. In > chaos mathematics it is called scaling, as above so below. Scaling > is like the similarity of the erosion of mountains rivers looking > the same as the erosion in a small dirt pile. Physical reality > exhibits a kind of memory. > > Life could not reproduce without memory, the tendency to repeat. > > Freud pointed out that the outstanding feature of the mind was its > tendency to repeat. He speculated that mental problems were caused > by the repression of the memory of trauma. The push to remember a > powerful experience is so strong that the repressed memory festers, > in a way, only to manifest as a set of negative trtaits, or boil over > at a later time. The pain is not willingly remembered. Once the > trauma is remembered the aberrant behavior caused by the repression > stops. He proved it time after time. He even sought to show how > whole societies can have a repression in a similar fashion. > > Feuerstein translates: > I.11 Remembering is the non-deprivation of the experienced object. > > In other words memory is the mental representation of an experience > and the memory is not blocked. This correlates with Freud. It also > defines memory in the sense of remembering which is a real time > experience instead of a mental ability. This coincides with the > other definitions of fluctuations of consciousness being real time > events of differing sorts. This distinction is important because > elsewhere in Raja Yoga one learns of the mental abilities: logic, > imagination, intuition, dreaming, and memory. > > Later in describing ignorance which he calls nescience (and I call > stupidity): > II.4. Nescience is the field of the other causes of affliction; they > can be dormant, attenuated (constrained), intercepted (blocked by a > covering of another type of stupidity such as anger blocks fear), or > aroused (which is whatever is current). > > I like D'Angrade's which says: > II.3. The hindrances to divine Consciousness are: ingorance, egoism, > attachment, aversion, and earth bound love of life. > II.4. Ignorance breeds the other hindrances (F. calls them > afflictions [nescience, I-am-ness, attachment, aversion, and the will > to live.], which may be dormant, attenuated, oscillating, or > predominant (These refer to the state of any of the afflictions and > its availability to be repeated. What F calls current, D' calls > predominant. Of these of course, attenuated (controlled), is > optimal.) > > Now I have put in my own comments in parenthesis and brackets. One > problem in reading Patanjali is he refers to definitions which are > located in other areas of the books. Another problem is the > difference in how people understand the concepts about the mind. They > should be experientially derived and not conflict with other > definitions and this leads to a lot of different shades of meaning. > > Memory is cellular, hormonal, cultural, and experiential. The urge > to repeat is strengthened by frequency and reward, and diminished by > resistance. Resistance is strengthened by repetition. This is > referred to later as the way to overcome obstacles, or negative > traits. (II.33. and IV.28.) One implements the opposite of the trait > to be diminished. In this case the willingness to repeat negative > actions is overcome by implementing the opposite which is resistance. > > If one s to Patanjali's definition of memory there is no > reason to submit a theory about a subconscious. > > Any comments or corrections? John, James, Jan, Joyce, Harsha anyone? > > Merry Christmas everyone. > Love > Bobby G. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 25, 2002 Report Share Posted December 25, 2002 Yes, yes, yes! , "james <nisarga@c...>" <nisarga@c...> wrote: > Patanjali's Sutras and some other 'sacred' texts (like the 'Tao Te Ching') are unique because they are more than just text - they are the thing Itself... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 25, 2002 Report Share Posted December 25, 2002 > > > In othere words it is about realization as in - 'make it real' > (without an entity that is making it real) - the Love/intelligence is > its own knowing and just as Love it is very definite, it is infinitely > impossible to describe Love - it can only be LIVED. > To realize (to make real) is a good way to put it. It is interesting to note that the ideas presented by Patanjali promote the ability to love and the tendencies he wants to eliminate, limit the realization of love. As a guiding force there is no better than love and the avatar of love is the Christ. Have a very merry Christmas! Love Bobby G. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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