Guest guest Posted January 5, 2003 Report Share Posted January 5, 2003 Good Questions. I think it was you who started the discussion in effect. I know at least to me I thought "Now John has started something that is totally worthwhile. Some give and take on info about the Vedas and Yoga Sutra. It was interesting to me that there were groups of well informed people about Advaita on the internet. It seemed to me that the web offered a way to sift through millions of people to find the few that I could discuss the things I consider important and that guide me every day. I can have a flaky idea and it sounds good till I put it out and have somebody say nay to it. Or maybe they can amplify. I don't care for the arguments or disrespect that emotions sometimes fuel but I am still prone to them. It is worth it if a learning is present. Anyway I was glad you presented such a good beginning when you answered Joyce. I would like to explore more about Yoga Sutra. Some of the later sutra are difficult and the weaving of ideas is immense. His discription of the progression of what to expect leading to Samadhi helped me through a difficult time of fear of the unknown. Hi, This discussion of Patanjali was initiated due to the post of Joyce. Since the comments began there has been no response from Joyce. I am wondering where she is at with this - or has she gone on to other things? Relative to this passages Bob is presenting. There is something deeper about these "fluctuations". Where do they occur? In space? In time? How long do they persist? I think each person has a way of looking at this question that is determined by the larger picture they hold of the mental mechanisms. To me fluctuations are repeating waves in the consciousness. Periodicity determines their appearance. Like the heart which beats on its own. It needs no brain. The heart cells are made to beat. The brain is made to repeat or remember experience. Vasanas (subliminal traits), samskaras (subliminal activators), and ragas (attachment), can be eliminated by introducing the opposite trait. P. mentions this twice (II.33 and IV.28). If left alone and not challenged they might last until the reward they give does not fuel them any longer or something is accidentally introduced which blocks them. I.33 is also good for pacifying the mind. Basically project friendliness (love) gladness etc. One question I have wanted to ask is How does one reduce one's level of indulgences? That is, eliminate an indulgence without replacing it with another? I could say introduce the opposite but the will power to do that is usually lacking. It is like fighting a tide. Since everything is changing, nothing is permanent, therefore not real in the sense of being permanent, do not these "fluctuations" create the vibrations which make it appear as if there is a continuity of something which might be called a "self"? Yes I think you are right. Ramana used the word Aham as the nexus we refer to when we refer to ourselves. It is the first vritti arising without which the others would not. The Aham Vritti. It seems real or constant because of what you say and the fact of its close proximity (as the first thought) to the Real Self. Something I sometimes feel is that I am a mirror image. Things are reversed. Do I think or am I thought? The answer is given I believe in "Drik Drisya Viveka" as translated by Ramana Maharshi from Shankara. Something is constant. By definition it would be the most pervasive therefore the least discernable. The sages say look within because we are prone to look outward. That would be a result of this mirror image problem. So when one lets go of the fluctuations, as it were, what is left? Who is left? (I.3) Nameste, John L. Love Bobby G. , "texasbg2000 <Bigbobgraham@a...>" <Bigbobgraham@a...> wrote: > To Continue: > > The thing about the fluctuations is that they occur in real time. > They are thoughts. If I am fearful, then I am remembering something > I am convinced is scary. It is just a thought. If I have a > realization about myself or a fantasy it does not transport me to > that place where it is real. I have to have the thought "me" and put > me in that place. It all changes in an instant if the telephone > rings. > > If we know the thoughts pass why would we give such supremecy over > our lives to them. > > I.12 The restriction of these fluctuations is achieved through > practice and dispassion. > ---Patanjali tells us that the stopping of the fluctuations is > possible. > > I.13. Practice is the exertion in gaining stability in that state of > restriction. > ---Seeing a thought is easy enough sometimes, but to remain stable > and see each thought as it arises is called practice. > Anyone practicing meditation for very long is aware of the thoughts > that arise. Seeing each thought without it turning into a chain that > distracts from the meditative focus and continuing in that alert > state is the aim of, as far as I know, all meditation. With the > stopping of thought other discriptions of the experience than > meditation are more precise. Patanjali of course describes them in > great detail in later sutra. > > I.15 Dispassion is the knowledge of mastery of that yogin who is > without thirst for seen i.e. earthly and revealed objects. > > Or as D'Andrade translates > I.15. Purity of Heart is the consciousness of mastery > Over the thirst for things of this world, > And the thirst for promised enjoyment > Here or hereafter, on earth or in heaven. > I.16. Perfected purity of heart is gained > When one masters the thirst > For the Play of Qualities > And abides in the awareness > Of the Infinite Self. > > Love > Bobby G. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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