Guest guest Posted January 17, 2003 Report Share Posted January 17, 2003 Hello all: I have been reading carefully and appreciate all the postings. I am wondering about people's spiritual experiences who are in this particular group. I have felt deeply connected with Ramana and some of his proclaimed students and their students. As well I am greatly inspired by other teachers past and present. Also lately I appreciate the teachers (mutual/equal/collaborative) in the individuals that are being drawn to explore deepening/awakening/being with me in groups I facilitate. I am interested in how people really truly apply these ideas in their lives (2003). How are the ideas operating in your lives, affecting your lives, your decisions, your relationships? Or is this all just word play, a philosophical debate? Is this more a place to toss, debate and tear apart theories? At times the love for that which is beyond words shines through here but lately and I fully own it can be just me, I find myself wondering are any of you real, as in real lives, real application of the grace of Ramana and longing for something more relevant to daily life. Maybe I'm shifting into wanting something different I don't know. Just sometimes when I listen to Byron Katie, Adyashanti or Gangaji, and even more so read, for instance, Tibetan Buddhist Pema Chodrin; it seems so much more grounded, real, life affirming. Maybe I'm just being longed back into my affinity with "loving kindness" and concern/compassion about the real suffering of beings still on this planet in the three dimensions seeking peace. Feeling maybe my focus doesn't fit here anymore. Maybe I was originally looking for any portals with which to stay connected to Ramana and others who appreciated his impact, but somehow that is more internalized now. Thought I'd put out this series of wonderings rather than just drift off. Quote from Pema Chodrin-Comfortable with Uncertainty" "Spiritual awakening is frequently described as a journey to the top of a mountain. We leave our attachments and our worldliness behind and slowly make our way to the top. At the peak we have transcended all pain. The only problem with this metaphor is we leave all others behind. Their suffering continues, unrelieved by our escape. On the journey of the warrior-bodhisattva, the path goes down not up, as if the mountain pointed toward the earth not the sky. Instead of transcending the suffering of all creatures, we move towards the turbulence and doubt however we can. We explore the reality and unpredictability of insecurity and pain and we try not to push it away. ...At our own pace, without speed or aggression, we move down and down and down. With us move millions of others, our companions in awakening from fear. At the bottom we discover water of bodhichitta. Bodhichitta is our heart-our wounded, softened heart. Right there in the thick of things, we discover the love that will not die. This love is bodhichitta. It is gentle and warm; it is clear and sharp; it is open and spacious. The awakened heart of bodhichitta is the basic goodness of all beings." End of quote. While I have been left spiritually homeless in that I am unable to commit to any one structure including Buddhism, I see the spaciousness that she describes as the same spaciousness of the grace that comes re Ramana and others. In the end, there are so many different views and descriptions touching on the same formless field. For some though it seems so much more impersonal and unrelated to emotions and concern, and in some so esoteric that there is no real overlap with this world and the human experience. I guess I am truly interested in what is real, what is true, here and now? How does the experience of awakening and being flooded with grace translate into practical daily living in a world where it can be slightly awkward to be totally in love with something formless and unknown, to fall into gaps of silence where the experience is experienced without words/thoughts/concepts and remains wordless? Do others feel this too? For me I'm not on a mountain or under a tree or on a park bench. I am living a real life whatever that means. I began writing the other day on the theme: "what to do when you're oscillating between God, grace, nothingness, practical life matters that require your attention, the desire to do nothing, the desire to save the world, the longing to remain in a state of happiness and deep peace all the time and the nagging details of a world where suffering and annoyances continue to appear to flourish and furthermore there are kids that need to be loved demanding attention". That day my answer was to go clean some of my clutter! LOL. Blessings and grace josie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 18, 2003 Report Share Posted January 18, 2003 Dear Josie, If you feel a closeness to Ramana, you need not ask whether you should stay here. Sri Ramana's teaching is not really about ideas but about awareness and the sense of "I am". As far as how one should live, who can really say? One should be gentle, easy, and natural with oneself and others, if possible. That is enough, is it not? One should give to others what one can. There are many practical affairs to attend to in life. So one attends to them. Love to all Harsha , "J Kane" <jkane@d...> wrote: > Hello all: > > I have been reading carefully and appreciate all the postings. I am wondering about people's spiritual experiences who are in this particular group. I have felt deeply connected with Ramana and some of his proclaimed students and their students. As well I am greatly inspired by other teachers past and present. Also lately I appreciate the teachers (mutual/equal/collaborative) in the individuals that are being drawn to explore deepening/awakening/being with me in groups I facilitate. I am interested in how people really truly apply these ideas in their lives (2003). How are the ideas operating in your lives, affecting your lives, your decisions, your relationships? Or is this all just word play, a philosophical debate? Is this more a place to toss, debate and tear apart theories? > > At times the love for that which is beyond words shines through here but lately and I fully own it can be just me, I find myself wondering are any of you real, as in real lives, real application of the grace of Ramana and longing for something more relevant to daily life. Maybe I'm shifting into wanting something different I don't know. Just sometimes when I listen to Byron Katie, Adyashanti or Gangaji, and even more so read, for instance, Tibetan Buddhist Pema Chodrin; it seems so much more grounded, real, life affirming. Maybe I'm just being longed back into my affinity with "loving kindness" and concern/compassion about the real suffering of beings still on this planet in the three dimensions seeking peace. Feeling maybe my focus doesn't fit here anymore. Maybe I was originally looking for any portals with which to stay connected to Ramana and others who appreciated his impact, but somehow that is more internalized now. Thought I'd put out this series of wonderings rather than just drift off. > > Quote from Pema Chodrin-Comfortable with Uncertainty" > > "Spiritual awakening is frequently described as a journey to the top of a mountain. We leave our attachments and our worldliness behind and slowly make our way to the top. At the peak we have transcended all pain. The only problem with this metaphor is we leave all others behind. Their suffering continues, unrelieved by our escape. > On the journey of the warrior-bodhisattva, the path goes down not up, as if the mountain pointed toward the earth not the sky. Instead of transcending the suffering of all creatures, we move towards the turbulence and doubt however we can. We explore the reality and unpredictability of insecurity and pain and we try not to push it away. ...At our own pace, without speed or aggression, we move down and down and down. With us move millions of others, our companions in awakening from fear. At the bottom we discover water of bodhichitta. Bodhichitta is our heart-our wounded, softened heart. Right there in the thick of things, we discover the love that will not die. This love is bodhichitta. It is gentle and warm; it is clear and sharp; it is open and spacious. The awakened heart of bodhichitta is the basic goodness of all beings." > End of quote. > > While I have been left spiritually homeless in that I am unable to commit to any one structure including Buddhism, I see the spaciousness that she describes as the same spaciousness of the grace that comes re Ramana and others. In the end, there are so many different views and descriptions touching on the same formless field. For some though it seems so much more impersonal and unrelated to emotions and concern, and in some so esoteric that there is no real overlap with this world and the human experience. I guess I am truly interested in what is real, what is true, here and now? How does the experience of awakening and being flooded with grace translate into practical daily living in a world where it can be slightly awkward to be totally in love with something formless and unknown, to fall into gaps of silence where the experience is experienced without words/thoughts/concepts and remains wordless? Do others feel this too? > > For me I'm not on a mountain or under a tree or on a park bench. I am living a real life whatever that means. I began writing the other day on the theme: "what to do when you're oscillating between God, grace, nothingness, practical life matters that require your attention, the desire to do nothing, the desire to save the world, the longing to remain in a state of happiness and deep peace all the time and the nagging details of a world where suffering and annoyances continue to appear to flourish and furthermore there are kids that need to be loved demanding attention". That day my answer was to go clean some of my clutter! LOL. > > Blessings and grace > josie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 18, 2003 Report Share Posted January 18, 2003 , "J Kane" <jkane@d...> wrote: > Hello all: > > I have been reading carefully and appreciate all the postings. I am wondering about people's spiritual experiences who are in this particular group. I have felt deeply connected with Ramana and some of his proclaimed students and their students. As well I am greatly inspired by other teachers past and present. Also lately I appreciate the teachers (mutual/equal/collaborative) in the individuals that are being drawn to explore deepening/awakening/being with me in groups I facilitate. I am interested in how people really truly apply these ideas in their lives (2003). How are the ideas operating in your lives, affecting your lives, your decisions, your relationships? Or is this all just word play, a philosophical debate? Is this more a place to toss, debate and tear apart theories? > > At times the love for that which is beyond words shines through here but lately and I fully own it can be just me, I find myself wondering are any of you real, as in real lives, real application of the grace of Ramana and longing for something more relevant to daily life. Maybe I'm shifting into wanting something different I don't know. Just sometimes when I listen to Byron Katie, Adyashanti or Gangaji, and even more so read, for instance, Tibetan Buddhist Pema Chodrin; it seems so much more grounded, real, life affirming. Maybe I'm just being longed back into my affinity with "loving kindness" and concern/compassion about the real suffering of beings still on this planet in the three dimensions seeking peace. Feeling maybe my focus doesn't fit here anymore. Maybe I was originally looking for any portals with which to stay connected to Ramana and others who appreciated his impact, but somehow that is more internalized now. Thought I'd put out this series of wonderings rather than just drift off. > > Quote from Pema Chodrin-Comfortable with Uncertainty" > > "Spiritual awakening is frequently described as a journey to the top of a mountain. We leave our attachments and our worldliness behind and slowly make our way to the top. At the peak we have transcended all pain. The only problem with this metaphor is we leave all others behind. Their suffering continues, unrelieved by our escape. > On the journey of the warrior-bodhisattva, the path goes down not up, as if the mountain pointed toward the earth not the sky. Instead of transcending the suffering of all creatures, we move towards the turbulence and doubt however we can. We explore the reality and unpredictability of insecurity and pain and we try not to push it away. ...At our own pace, without speed or aggression, we move down and down and down. With us move millions of others, our companions in awakening from fear. At the bottom we discover water of bodhichitta. Bodhichitta is our heart-our wounded, softened heart. Right there in the thick of things, we discover the love that will not die. This love is bodhichitta. It is gentle and warm; it is clear and sharp; it is open and spacious. The awakened heart of bodhichitta is the basic goodness of all beings." > End of quote. > > While I have been left spiritually homeless in that I am unable to commit to any one structure including Buddhism, I see the spaciousness that she describes as the same spaciousness of the grace that comes re Ramana and others. In the end, there are so many different views and descriptions touching on the same formless field. For some though it seems so much more impersonal and unrelated to emotions and concern, and in some so esoteric that there is no real overlap with this world and the human experience. I guess I am truly interested in what is real, what is true, here and now? How does the experience of awakening and being flooded with grace translate into practical daily living in a world where it can be slightly awkward to be totally in love with something formless and unknown, to fall into gaps of silence where the experience is experienced without words/thoughts/concepts and remains wordless? Do others feel this too? > > For me I'm not on a mountain or under a tree or on a park bench. I am living a real life whatever that means. I began writing the other day on the theme: "what to do when you're oscillating between God, grace, nothingness, practical life matters that require your attention, the desire to do nothing, the desire to save the world, the longing to remain in a state of happiness and deep peace all the time and the nagging details of a world where suffering and annoyances continue to appear to flourish and furthermore there are kids that need to be loved demanding attention". That day my answer was to go clean some of my clutter! LOL. > > Blessings and grace > josie On Posting It is not necessary to post all of the time. Those that read and reflect are adding to the aura of the list. I am undergoing personal trials and have decided to refrain from posting except for the occasional ones in which I either feel that I have a. Something to say or b. Nothing to say. If we are honest, answer b is much more common. It is my understanding that to go down is to go up. We must descend within to rise within. We must examine sleep in order to achieve brief moments of wakefulness. As for taking care of business, that is where being a warrior comes in. I remember Ram Dass saying that being sloppy pulls at one's energy, so being impeccable applies to the outer clutter as well as the interior clutter. All of the questions that you have raised are valid and I would suggest this. Ask them of yourself and you will know the answer. Most of what we human beings do is mechanical. That is the reason we take to the path. Love would have us examine ourselves twenty-four hours a day. Love is consciousness....love is the Self. Vicki Woodyard http://www.bobwoodyard.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 18, 2003 Report Share Posted January 18, 2003 , "J Kane" <jkane@d...> I am interested in how people really truly apply these ideas in their lives (2003). >i think we are all reaching out for the light that is already within >us >each sangha/satsang has its value - perhaps in reminding us to go >chop wood,carry water! >i am deeply grateful for Ramana Maharishi, Sri Aurobindo, the Buddha >and i hope to patiently 'walk' the paths and smile and bow to all >who share the wandering and wondering! >and yes, hoping that my journey will not add to suffering, perhaps >help in any humble way i can >do pop into the group breathenow - a place of meditation with loving- kindness >metta to all! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 18, 2003 Report Share Posted January 18, 2003 Hi Josie, It sounds like you may want to participate more in this wonderful group to find out what bothers you about personalities that tend toward a more mental-type than your feeling-type. There are lots of people with lots of personalities and right here we can explore mental puzzles, describe lucid dreams, discuss spiritual politics, and return to Ground with Maharshi quotes that seem tailor-made to the discussion. And it doesn't cost any money! Now that's helpful. :-) , "J Kane" <jkane@d...> wrote: > > Or is this all just word play, a philosophical debate? Is this more a place to toss, debate and tear apart theories? > > I find myself wondering are any of you real, as in real lives That's great. "OK, how many people here are real?" If artificial intelligence progresses, this might not be a silly question one day. :-| best wishes, david. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 21, 2003 Report Share Posted January 21, 2003 on 1/17/03 6:15 PM, J Kane at jkane wrote: > Hello all: > > I have been reading carefully and appreciate all the postings. I am wondering > about people's spiritual experiences who are in this particular group. I have > felt deeply connected with Ramana and some of his proclaimed students and > their students. As well I am greatly inspired by other teachers past and > present. Also lately I appreciate the teachers (mutual/equal/collaborative) in > the individuals that are being drawn to explore deepening/awakening/being with > me in groups I facilitate. I am interested in how people really truly apply > these ideas in their lives (2003). How are the ideas operating in your lives, > affecting your lives, your decisions, your relationships? Or is this all just > word play, a philosophical debate? Is this more a place to toss, debate and > tear apart theories? > > At times the love for that which is beyond words shines through here but > lately and I fully own it can be just me, I find myself wondering are any of > you real, as in real lives, real application of the grace of Ramana and > longing for something more relevant to daily life. Maybe I'm shifting into > wanting something different I don't know. Just sometimes when I listen to > Byron Katie, Adyashanti or Gangaji, and even more so read, for instance, > Tibetan Buddhist Pema Chodrin; it seems so much more grounded, real, life > affirming. Maybe I'm just being longed back into my affinity with "loving > kindness" and concern/compassion about the real suffering of beings still on > this planet in the three dimensions seeking peace. Feeling maybe my focus > doesn't fit here anymore. Maybe I was originally looking for any portals with > which to stay connected to Ramana and others who appreciated his impact, but > somehow that is more internalized now. Thought I'd put out this series of > wonderings rather than just drift off. > > Quote from Pema Chodrin-Comfortable with Uncertainty" > > "Spiritual awakening is frequently described as a journey to the top of a > mountain. We leave our attachments and our worldliness behind and slowly make > our way to the top. At the peak we have transcended all pain. The only problem > with this metaphor is we leave all others behind. Their suffering continues, > unrelieved by our escape. > On the journey of the warrior-bodhisattva, the path goes down not up, as if > the mountain pointed toward the earth not the sky. Instead of transcending the > suffering of all creatures, we move towards the turbulence and doubt however > we can. We explore the reality and unpredictability of insecurity and pain and > we try not to push it away. ...At our own pace, without speed or aggression, > we move down and down and down. With us move millions of others, our > companions in awakening from fear. At the bottom we discover water of > bodhichitta. Bodhichitta is our heart-our wounded, softened heart. Right there > in the thick of things, we discover the love that will not die. This love is > bodhichitta. It is gentle and warm; it is clear and sharp; it is open and > spacious. The awakened heart of bodhichitta is the basic goodness of all > beings." > End of quote. > > While I have been left spiritually homeless in that I am unable to commit to > any one structure including Buddhism, I see the spaciousness that she > describes as the same spaciousness of the grace that comes re Ramana and > others. In the end, there are so many different views and descriptions > touching on the same formless field. For some though it seems so much more > impersonal and unrelated to emotions and concern, and in some so esoteric that > there is no real overlap with this world and the human experience. I guess I > am truly interested in what is real, what is true, here and now? How does the > experience of awakening and being flooded with grace translate into practical > daily living in a world where it can be slightly awkward to be totally in love > with something formless and unknown, to fall into gaps of silence where the > experience is experienced without words/thoughts/concepts and remains > wordless? Do others feel this too? > > For me I'm not on a mountain or under a tree or on a park bench. I am living a > real life whatever that means. I began writing the other day on the theme: > "what to do when you're oscillating between God, grace, nothingness, practical > life matters that require your attention, the desire to do nothing, the desire > to save the world, the longing to remain in a state of happiness and deep > peace all the time and the nagging details of a world where suffering and > annoyances continue to appear to flourish and furthermore there are kids that > need to be loved demanding attention". That day my answer was to go clean some > of my clutter! LOL. > > Blessings and grace > josie > Dear Josie, The practical thing that happens is that all aspects of "your life" get inspected as they arise with a new awareness and intelligence level. The personality with all of its likes and dislikes comes under the laser of intense impersonal awareness and habits and emotions are seen for what they are, how they are clung to or avoided...a kind of no-judgement-awarenress. Sometimes I see myself as I'm being "me'ed" other times , I see the tendency and identified-with-stuff long before it reaches me and the very seeing of it turns it into nothing. (like watching an emotion arrise) Each moment is a moment to be caught up in or a moment to See. Life be comes more playful and free. You see how your "character" is something you perpetuate automaticly unless this Seeing takes place. Shawn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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