Guest guest Posted January 31, 2003 Report Share Posted January 31, 2003 Hi all, The more the merrier. It doesn't just have to be Bob and John. It would be useful to hear from others and their experiences with Patanjali. It is one thing to talk about it, another to live it. Now that gets really interesting. The interesting thing about Patanjali is that the opening two verses is the heart and core of the Yoga Sutras. It states the whole purpose of all the verses and everything else is definitions, or methods for dealing with it (what is indicated by verse 1), or the effects of the practice. Then once gone through, the student-practitioner realizes that Part 4 (or Pada 4) is a description of the result of clearing away all the "clouds of illusion" which cloud the mind. For those who are following this discussion you might jump ahead and review Part IV to see why it is worthwhile to study the first three parts (Padas). A "pada" is a footprint made by taking a step. In Mukunda Stiles translation they read: I, 1 With great respect and love now the blessings of Yoga instruction are offered. ["respect and love" are the attitudes to hold to achieve the blessings.] ["offered" means not given or forced, and what is offered is the blessings of the receiving the instruction. One doesn't have to take them.] I, 2 Yoga is experienced in that mind which has ceased to identify itself with its vacillating waves of perception. In a more poetical form, Hugh D'Andrade's translation reads: I,1 Now this work expounds Yoga, the Way of identification with the Infinite Self. I,2 Through Yoga one learns to control the energies of Mind-substance that veil the Infinite Self. The next two verses complete the definition. In paraphrase... If one makes the identification with the Infinite Self then one is free and grounded in his original nature; if not, then one identifies with the energies that veil the true and Infinite Self. The picture this presents is a person who stands out in nature with the sun shining in light and beauty, but the person is smoking a cigarette and is surrounded by the smoke. If that person, in metaphor, sees the sun then reality is illuminated by the light, but if that person, sees only the smoke then that becomes the reality. The key is to blow away the smoke and stop smoking! The rest of the three chapters are about doing that and the last chapter is about what happens when we do the practice. We are opening up the channels for Divine Life to flow through, and in Part IV we see the work which that Divine Life does when it starts flowing through. There are two stages therefore. Stage 1 of our practice is to purify and clarify our personal energies; we learn and practice specific techniques; and have learned and practiced them the second stage begins. Stage 2 is to prepare mind and body to receive the energies which will be coming through. Stage 3 is no effort on our side, it is all Divine Action and Process leading to Divine Illumination. The very last verse of the Yoga Sutras tell us where we are going: IV,34 And so at last the drive of evolution no longer holds sway. The not-self has served the purpose of the Self, and the Eternal Knower shines with his own Light. Liberation is gained. (D'Andrade) Stiles translation is more dramatic: IV,34 Absolute freedom results when the primal natural forces, having no further purpose to serve, become re-absorbed to the source of all, or when the power of pure consciousness becomes established in its own essential nature. ------ For those joining this discussion there are several translations available. The Hugh D'Andrade translation is out of print and no longer available at this time. George Feuerstein and Mukunda Stiles have done an excellent work of providing the original language and glossaries with commentary in a lot of detail. The Vedanta Society is still publishing the Yoga Sutras under the title RAJA YOGA. For those who want to plunge into a most readable and useful translation and begin practicing from there the Alistair Shearer, THE YOGA SUTRAS OF PATANJALI, is most accessible and readable. He has a quite useful and readable introduction. The translation follows that. His words are very simple and clear. For instance, compare with the above quotations: I,1 And now the teaching on yoga begins. I,2 Yoga is the settling of the mind into silence. However much of Part IV is not so accessible unless the reader has read the introduction and all of Parts I, II, and III first. Finally, keep these three verses in mind (I,1; I,2; and IV,34) while reading the rest of the Yoga Sutras. Next keep in mind the five types of "mental activity" in verses I,5-12. Be able to distinguish them and then without reading further explore how to "settle" those five states, much less recognize them. With that exploration the later passages will mean much more. I,13-16 indicate the attitude one is to have in the practice to follow. The rest of the chapter deals with basic practices and the effects thereof. I leave it as an exercise to the reader of these remarks to read several times and then outline all of Part I. Most useful. Bob and I, and I am sure others in this group who have done the work will be happy to respond to questions of any kind about the Yoga Sutras and the practice. Finally keep in mind Ramana Maharshi's "simple" question: Who am I? That after all is what it is all about. John L. , "texasbg2000 <Bigbobgraham@a...>" <Bigbobgraham@a...> wrote: > > > > > > > > This is wonderful, especially with your commentary. Thank you for > > sharing it with us. > > > > love, > > joyce > > > Hi Joyce > Thanks for reading it. I am glad you liked it. If John is willing > to keep corresponding about P. maybe we can do it some more. It is a > lot of fun for me. > > Love > bobby G. 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Guest guest Posted January 31, 2003 Report Share Posted January 31, 2003 Hi John and Bob - Thanks again for this. I know people have shared similar in the past... back when I was asleep (OK, more asleep). I'll be offline all weekend, and hopefully "more and merrier" will be onboard then stoking the homefries. love, joyce , "John Logan <johnrloganis>" <johnrloganis> wrote: > Hi all, > The more the merrier. It doesn't just have to be Bob and John. It > would be useful to hear from others and their experiences with > Patanjali. It is one thing to talk about it, another to live it. Now > that gets really interesting. > <snip> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 31, 2003 Report Share Posted January 31, 2003 , "know_mystery <know_mystery>" <know_mystery> wrote: > Hi John and Bob - > > > > Thanks again for this. I know people have shared similar in the > past... back when I was asleep (OK, more asleep). > > I'll be offline all weekend, and hopefully "more and merrier" will be > onboard then stoking the homefries. Wait! Not 'homeFRIES' - I meant homefires. Been missing Vicki too much at the Waffle House, I guess. > > love, > joyce > > , "John Logan > <johnrloganis>" <johnrloganis> wrote: > > Hi all, > > The more the merrier. It doesn't just have to be Bob and John. It > > would be useful to hear from others and their experiences with > > Patanjali. It is one thing to talk about it, another to live it. > Now > > that gets really interesting. > > > <snip> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 31, 2003 Report Share Posted January 31, 2003 Now that is the "Infinite Self" at play! John L. > , "know_mystery > <know_mystery>" <know_mystery> wrote: > > Hi John and Bob - > > > > > > > > Thanks again for this. I know people have shared similar in the > > past... back when I was asleep (OK, more asleep). > > > > I'll be offline all weekend, and hopefully "more and merrier" will > be > > onboard then stoking the homefries. > > Wait! Not 'homeFRIES' - I meant homefires. Been missing Vicki too > much at the Waffle House, I guess. > > > > > > > love, > > joyce Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 31, 2003 Report Share Posted January 31, 2003 Hi John: Nicely done! This is a good overview that sets up the ideas that are to follow. Patanjali sounds complicated but look at what he is trying to do for the reader. If it were easy, people's minds would not be obscure and we would not have misunderstandings, conflict, and ignorance. As you pointed out just learning what those first disturbances of consciousness are is remarkably clarifying. The path of the mind is complex but not infinitely so. Patanjali is complex but the ironic thing is that if one already knew what he is saying it would not be complex at all. That is, the clear mind that results from his methods would make it much easier to understand him in the beginning. The remaining thing is the question of worth. Before the effort is expended to even wade through the ideas, people may question if it is worth it. I think your post recognized that and reccommended reading the last book also. It is short and goes quickly. , "John Logan <johnrloganis>" <johnrloganis> wrote: We are opening > up the channels for Divine Life to flow through, and in Part IV we > see the work which that Divine Life does when it starts flowing > through. ----- > Stage 3 is no effort on our side, it is all Divine Action and Process > leading to Divine Illumination. The very last verse of the Yoga > Sutras tell us where we are going: > > IV,34 And so at last the drive of evolution no longer holds sway. The > not-self has served the purpose of the Self, and the Eternal Knower > shines with his own Light. Liberation is gained. (D'Andrade) The references to the Divine could be misconstrued to be religious in nature. Raja Yoga has never been made into a religion. P. refers to Ishvara as God. I am not certain but I believe there are no references to god except as a soul that never incarnated and hence never had karma or tendencies. Theoretically God would be like other souls except for that difference. > > Bob and I, and I am sure others in this group who have done the work > will be happy to respond to questions of any kind about the Yoga > Sutras and the practice. Absolutely. Jan B. is very astute on P. and I am sure there are others. > > Finally keep in mind Ramana Maharshi's "simple" question: Who am I? > That after all is what it is all about. > > John L. Love Bobby G. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 31, 2003 Report Share Posted January 31, 2003 > > Finally keep in mind Ramana Maharshi's "simple" question: Who am I? > > That after all is what it is all about. > > > > John L. > > Love > Bobby G. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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