the physiology of intellect

[Guest guest]

the physiology of intellect in Ramana Maharshi's enlightenment:

 

"When the mind, having pure sattva

as its characteristic, remain

attending to the aham sphurana,

which is the sign of the forthcoming

direct experience of the Self,

the downward-facing Heart becomes upward-facing and remains in the form

of That.

 

This aforesaid attention to the

source of the aham sphurana alone

is the path. When thus attended to,

Self, the reality, alone will remain

shining in the centre of the

Heart as I-am-I."

 

from:

 

<http://www.davidgodman.org/rteach/iandii1.shtml>

 

the turning up is a term used about

the petals of the lotuses at the

chakras.

 

here is the Amrit-nadi leading from

the Crown-chakra to the Heart-cave

down ward: after Enlightenment,

wich happens in the Crown chakra...

as E settles:

>From No Mind I Am The Self.. David Godman

 

 The experience of the Self #6

 

Q:  Some people claim to have had

brief experiences of the Self. Is

thisvery common?

 

Saradamma: Many people

make such claims but I doubt if more

than a few of them have had a genuine

experience of the Self. 

 

Because most people have never had

a direct experience of the Self

they think that blissful or peaceful

states of mind are glimpses of the

Self. The only real experience of

the Self occurs when the

mind enters the Heart.

 

Imagine a cave with a fierce demon

in it. If you go in to investigate,

one of three things may happen: the

demon may kill you, you may escape

through the cave entrance, or you

may break your head on the cave roof

while you are trying to escape and

die as a result. Taking the mind

into the Heart-cave is a little like

this. Either the Self destroys the

mind completely, or the mind enjoys

the bliss of the Self for a while

before escaping to the brain again,

or the strain of the experience is

too much for the body and death

results.

 

In the last case there will

probably be a rebirth in one of

the higher worlds.

 

   Most people who claim to have

experienced the Self have not even

taken their minds near to the entrance

 of the Heart-cave.  And even if the

mind does go into the Heart, there

is still an 'I' which is experiencing

the bliss of the Self.

 

The true experience of the Self

only happens when the mind is

completely absent, either temporarily

as in samadhi, or permanently, as in

 Self-realization.

 

Both of these experiences are very

rare.

 

   It is very difficult to make the

mind go into the Heart. Mostly it

is too afraid of its own death to even

 approach the entrance.

 

The mental experiences of peace,

bliss and

stillness, which devotees claim to

experience usually, take place

outside the Heart. They are all in

 the mind. People who think that

these experiences are the reality

 of the Self are only deluding

themselves.

 

      Love, Karta

 

from my page:

 

<http://us.geocities.com/mi_nok/realiz.html>

[Guest guest]

Dear Karta:

 

I would like to know did the following quote come from the David

Godman link or did it come from the Book No Mind I am the Self:

 

> the turning up is a term used about

> the petals of the lotuses at the

> chakras.

>

> here is the Amrit-nadi leading from

> the Crown-chakra to the Heart-cave

> down ward: after Enlightenment,

> wich happens in the Crown chakra...

> as E settles:

 

If it came from the book No Mind I am the Self, do you know what page?

 

The reason I am asking this is because someone who lives here in

Southern Nevada sent me an email within the last couple of weeks

asking me what did Sri Ramana Maharshi have to say about the amrit

nadi. So I looked up nadis and yoga etc. in the book Talks and I

emailed the quotes to her. I will also forward the above quote to

her, however I would like to know the source and if possible the page

number so that I can see the context. I am not interested in Nadis,

however she is interested so I will forward this to her.

 

Thank you,

 

take care,

 

with Love,

 

Michael L.

[Guest guest]

"Michael L." <uarelove> wrote:

> Dear Karta:

>

> I would like to know did the following quote come from the David

> Godman link or did it come from the Book No Mind I am the Self:

>

====================================

IS AMONG MY COMMENTS: please follow

the ""

 

> > the turning up is a term used about

> > the petals of the lotuses at the

> > chakras.

> >

> > here is the Amrit-nadi leading from

> > the Crown-chakra to the Heart-cave

> > down ward: after Enlightenment,

> > wich happens in the Crown chakra...

> > as E settles:

====================================

 

>

> If it came from the book No Mind I am the Self, do you know what page?

>

> The reason I am asking this is because someone who lives here in

> Southern Nevada sent me an email within the last couple of weeks

> asking me what did Sri Ramana Maharshi have to say about the amrit

> nadi. So I looked up nadis and yoga etc. in the book Talks and I

> emailed the quotes to her. I will also forward the above quote to

> her, however I would like to know the source and if possible the page

> number so that I can see the context. I am not interested in Nadis,

> however she is interested so I will forward this to her.

>

> Thank you,

>

> take care,

>

> with Love,

>

> Michael L.

 

Love, Karta

[Guest guest]

dear Michael, I've problems with my

keyboard I'll get back to you shotrly

 

Love, Karta

 

ps: maybe someone can look up the page

numbers

 

 

<group@s...> wrote:

> "Michael L." <uarelove> wrote:

> > Dear Karta:

> >

> > I would like to know did the following quote come from the David

> > Godman link or did it come from the Book No Mind I am the Self:

> >

> ====================================

> THESE ARE AMONG MY COMMENTS: please follow

> the ""

>

> > > the turning up is a term used about

> > > the petals of the lotuses at the

> > > chakras.

> > >

> > > here is the Amrit-nadi leading from

> > > the Crown-chakra to the Heart-cave

> > > down ward: after Enlightenment,

> > > wich happens in the Crown chakra...

> > > as E settles:

> ====================================

>

> >

> > If it came from the book No Mind I am the Self, do you know what page?

> >

> > The reason I am asking this is because someone who lives here in

> > Southern Nevada sent me an email within the last couple of weeks

> > asking me what did Sri Ramana Maharshi have to say about the amrit

> > nadi. So I looked up nadis and yoga etc. in the book Talks and I

> > emailed the quotes to her. I will also forward the above quote to

> > her, however I would like to know the source and if possible the page

> > number so that I can see the context. I am not interested in Nadis,

> > however she is interested so I will forward this to her.

> >

> > Thank you,

> >

> > take care,

> >

> > with Love,

> >

> > Michael L.

>

> Love, Karta

[Guest guest]

> ps: maybe someone can look up the page

> numbers

 

The final section of Karta's original message in

this thread (beginning "Q. Some people claim

to have had...") appears on page 196 of the

second edition of "No Mind -- I Am The

Self."

 

Note: This is chapter 19, not chapter 6, of that

book.

 

 

 

-

"Era" <group

<RamanaMaharshi>

Thursday, April 17, 2003 9:54 PM

[RamanaMaharshi] Re: the physiology of intellect

 

 

>

> dear Michael, I've problems with my

> keyboard I'll get back to you shotrly

>

> Love, Karta

>

> ps: maybe someone can look up the page

> numbers

>

>

[Guest guest]

om namo bhagavate sri ramanaya

Dear Michael et al,

> Karta wrote:

> "When the mind, having pure sattva

> as its characteristic, remain

> attending to the aham sphurana,

> which is the sign of the forthcoming

> direct experience of the Self,

> the downward-facing Heart becomes upward-facing and remains in the form

> of That.

>

> This aforesaid attention to the

> source of the aham sphurana alone

> is the path. When thus attended to,

> Self, the reality, alone will remain

> shining in the centre of the

> Heart as I-am-I."

The above quote is from a letter which was sent from Sri Bhagavan to Ganapati

Muni in answer to the latter's query about 'ego'.

> here is the Amrit-nadi leading from

> the Crown-chakra to the Heart-cave

> down ward: after Enlightenment,

> wich happens in the Crown chakra...

> as E settles:

Sorry no idea where this quote is from. However regarding this I would point to

the following from Maharshi's Gospel:

'The practice of kuNDalinI-yoga, as of any other yoga, is based on concentrated

imagination. One may fix one's attention on any of the centres, such as the one

between the eyebrows. This is bhAvanA or imaginative contemplation. The final

result is that the object on which the aspirant fixes his mind ceases to exist

as distinct and separate from the subject.'

And the following from Sri Bhagavan, in response to a question as to whether the

place between the eyebrows could be the seat of the Self:

'You agree that the Self is the ultimate source of Consciousness and that it

subsists equally during all the three states of mind. But see what happens when

a person in meditation is overcome by sleep. As the first symptom his head

begins to nod; but this could not happen if the Self were between the eyebrows,

that centre cannot be called its seat without implying that the Self often

forsakes its own place which is absurd. The fact is that the aspirant (sAdhaka)

may have his experience at any centre or cakra on which he concentrates his

mind, but that does not make such a centre the seat of the Self.'

'What is true of AjnA, the centre between the eyebrows, is also true of

sahasrAra, the brain-centre. If one concentrates on the sahasrAra, the ecstasy

of absorption (samAdhi) will follow. But this state is not permanent, because

the latent tendencies (vAsanAs) are not destroyed. ...He has to continue his

endeavour to eradicate his vAsanAs.' (from Mahadevan's 'Ramana Maharshi, the

Sage of Arunacala', p. 167-168)

I would add that the Heart is the ultimate Centre and only by reaching this can

samAdhi become permanent. The source of the aham-sphurana is the target...'When

thus attended to, Self, the reality, alone will remain shining in the centre of

the Heart as 'I am I'.'

Ever Yours in Sri Bhagavan,

Miles

[Guest guest]

Miles Wright <ramana.bhakta@v...> wrote:

>

>

> om namo bhagavate sri ramanaya

>

>

> Dear Michael et al,

>

> > Karta wrote:

> > "When the mind, having pure sattva

> > as its characteristic, remain

> > attending to the aham sphurana,

> > which is the sign of the forthcoming

> > direct experience of the Self,

> > the downward-facing Heart becomes upward-facing and remains in the form

> > of That.

> >

> > This aforesaid attention to the

> > source of the aham sphurana alone

> > is the path. When thus attended to,

> > Self, the reality, alone will remain

> > shining in the centre of the

> > Heart as I-am-I."

>

> The above quote is from a letter which was sent from Sri Bhagavan to

> Ganapati Muni in answer to the latter's query about 'ego'.

>

=====================================

> here is the Amrit-nadi leading from

> the Crown-chakra to the Heart-cave

> down ward: after Enlightenment,

> which happens in the Crown chakra..

> as E settles:

 

====================================

 

Thank you for the quote bellow.

 

The above quote is my comment; I

am working on a sub-page: The

Physiology of Realization

<http://us.geocities.com/mi_nok/realiz.html>

 

any and all input would be greatly appreciated.

 

One question: besides doing the

vichara was Sri Ramana against

fine-tuning ones body-mind-spirit

unit with meditation, and yoga

sadhana?

 

There is a discussion about calling

all sadhana "looking for being

saved", or looking for a *state* vs understanding: lead by Judi Rhodes

who is a selfproclaied Realized being,

but her background is no sadhana

and she advocates against meditation

and all yoga.

 

I thought, that one arrives to the

RIGHT understanding by doing vichara

and sadhana; fine-tuning the intellect

making it able to carry the *Realized

Understanding* when it comes

 

I am taking into concideration of

what happened to Bhagvan when he came

upon his realization...

 

Love, Karta

 

> Sorry no idea where this quote is from. However regarding this I would point

> to the following from Maharshi's Gospel:

>

> 'The practice of kuNDalinI-yoga, as of any other yoga, is based on

> concentrated imagination. One may fix one's attention on any of the centres,

> such as the one between the eyebrows. This is bhAvanA or imaginative

> contemplation. The final result is that the object on which the aspirant

> fixes his mind ceases to exist as distinct and separate from the subject.'

>

> And the following from Sri Bhagavan, in response to a question as to whether

> the place between the eyebrows could be the seat of the Self:

>

> 'You agree that the Self is the ultimate source of Consciousness and that it

> subsists equally during all the three states of mind. But see what happens

> when a person in meditation is overcome by sleep. As the first symptom his

> head begins to nod; but this could not happen if the Self were between the

> eyebrows, that centre cannot be called its seat without implying that the

> Self often forsakes its own place which is absurd. The fact is that the

> aspirant (sAdhaka) may have his experience at any centre or cakra on which

> he concentrates his mind, but that does not make such a centre the seat of

> the Self.'

>

> 'What is true of AjnA, the centre between the eyebrows, is also true of

> sahasrAra, the brain-centre. If one concentrates on the sahasrAra, the

> ecstasy of absorption (samAdhi) will follow. But this state is not

> permanent, because the latent tendencies (vAsanAs) are not destroyed. ...He

> has to continue his endeavour to eradicate his vAsanAs.' (from Mahadevan's

> 'Ramana Maharshi, the Sage of Arunacala', p. 167-168)

>

> I would add that the Heart is the ultimate Centre and only by reaching this

> can samAdhi become permanent. The source of the aham-sphurana is the

> target...'When thus attended to, Self, the reality, alone will remain

> shining in the centre of the Heart as 'I am I'.'

>

> Ever Yours in Sri Bhagavan,

> Miles

[Guest guest]

Dear Karta,

no, Sri Ramana was not against any practicing of

yoga or meditation or other sadhanas like japa or prayer.

In contrary, those who felt drawn to he encouraged

to do it properly, the best way it can be done.

There are even cases he helped with yoga practice and gave instructions.

So there is no versus, but in Sri Bhagavan's teaching it

is said that all paths will flow into vichara sooner or later

naturally as many streams flow into the sea.

 

In Sri Bhagavan

Gabriele

<<One question: besides doing the vichara was Sri Ramana against fine-tuning

ones body-mind-spirit unit with meditation, and yoga sadhana?

[Guest guest]

om namo bhagavate sri ramanaya

 

Dear Karta,

 

> There is a discussion about calling

> all sadhana "looking for being

> saved", or looking for a *state* vs understanding: lead by Judi Rhodes

> who is a selfproclaied Realized being,

> but her background is no sadhana

> and she advocates against meditation

> and all yoga.

 

This reminds me of something Bhagavan said in Talk 41:

D. : J. Krishnamurti says, 'No guru is necessary?'

M. : How did he know it? One can say so only after realising but not before.

 

The same applies here. One might say no sadhana 'after realising but not

before.'

 

Perhaps one might consider the problem of SAkhAcandrAyah - 'the bough and

the moon.' To point out the moon one might first point to a branch and then

suggest that the moon is hanging from the end. If we then remain totally

enammoured with the branch we have missed the point. Similarly when sadhana

becomes all in all and the reason for beginning sadhana is forgotten then

sadhana has been of no use.

 

To listen to Bhagavan again:

'Sadhanas are needed so long as one has not realised it. They are for

putting an end to obstacles. Finally there comes a stage when a person feels

helpless notwithstanding the sadhanas. He is unable to pursue the

much-cherished sadhana also. It is then that God's power is realised. The

Self reveals itself. (from Talk; 647)

 

> I thought, that one arrives to the

> RIGHT understanding by doing vichara

> and sadhana; fine-tuning the intellect

> making it able to carry the *Realized

> Understanding* when it comes

 

It is certainly the case that, without right understanding, the moment is

missed. Although the sun is there and very bright, to see it directly you

must turn and look.

 

Ever Yours in Sri Bhagavan,

Miles