Verification of Enlightenment

[Guest guest]

There was some talk recently about the importance of "verifying"

enlightenment". Such topics periodically come up on these lists and

we have fun with them. See comments below for another perspective.

Love to all

Harsha

 

Gregory Goode [goode (AT) DPW (DOT) COM]

Tuesday, September 19, 2000 11:42 AM

; NondualitySalon ;

Re: Sri Harsha-Ji

Hi Harsha-ji!

This matter of verification is a good one! You hit it on the head! Vastly

important to many people! And the endless regress of verification that

applies to b.s. and the b.s. meter also goes for verifying people and

teachers. Verification and authorization are often taken very seriously

and truly believed by many people (whether they have been verified or not).

But verification and authorization function as a social phenomenon, not

unlike a popularity contest or an ad campaign. Helpful for business

purposes, so that those consumers who aren't sure about where to shop can

find the a trademark they feel comfortable with. This reminds me of

the kosher disputes I've read about. Among orthodox

Jews, there are different certifying organizations, with different

symbols, like the K or the U-circle, etc. I've heard that the rebbes of

the different congregations are partial to particular certifying

organizations. So they tell their congregations not to buy any food from

the other certifying organizations. I've heard that Sephardic rebbes tell

their congregations not to buy from Ashkenazis, and vice versa, etc.

Sometimes the differences are politcal, sometimes based in differences in

doctrine or interpretation of the scriptures, etc. Others may have a lot

more info on this...

Love,

--Greg

Excellent points Gregji. Let me add this. Enlightenment itself can be seen as a social construct.

Of course the "enlightened" teachers don't like to hear this,....

especially if they have been "verified" .

Love

Harsha

=====

/join

 

[Guest guest]

Later that same day, Dan responded as follows to one of Marica's points about

the importance of verification. My response is given below.

Harsha

Dear Marcia,

"If the sun were to doubt itself,

it would immediately go out."

So said William Blake.

I appreciate your honesty and

direct speaking.

By the way,

where are you taking your bullshit meter

to be checked?

How will you verify your perceptions?

By realigning with someone else's perceptions?

When your perceptions are repaired will

you now agree with the consensus?

Love,

Dan

There is deep beauty in the nectar of this simplicity Sri Dan-Ji. You

go straight to the heart of the matter.

I am reminded that a couple of years ago on the K-List, someone asked

me whether a Guru had verified my experiences, enlightenment,

realization (or something like that). The person who asked is a

genuinely gentle and a beautiful person, well meaning, and well known

in the "spiritual field" and a powerful scholar and a professor at

Berkeley.

What could I say? Who will verify and how? The nature of

Self-Realization leaves no reference point against which to measure.

In many traditions, they actually do have "verifiers". But then they

have to be verified by others who must be verified by others, etc. It

is a paradox.

What can be verified cannot be real. How could it? Verification itself

implies duality and assumes a boundary, a separate reality than the

seer. If it is not here and now, I don't want it! (who ever wants it

can have it! .

Love to all

Harsha

=====

/join

 

[Guest guest]

Hi Harsha,

 

I wonder how anyone who really reads these messages can ever ask seriously for

someone's verification again!

 

--Greg

[Guest guest]

goode (AT) DPW (DOT) COM wrote:

Hi Harsha,

I wonder how anyone who really reads these messages can ever ask seriously

for someone's verification again!

--Greg

Never underestimate the genius of mediocrity! :-). :-).

Harsha