Guest guest Posted May 9, 2003 Report Share Posted May 9, 2003 Namaste.IMO, Good and Evil can be described as Empathy and lack of Empathy. This can be extended to ultimately become Ahimsa.......ONS...Tony. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 9, 2003 Report Share Posted May 9, 2003 , "saktidasa" <saktidasa> wrote: > Namaste.IMO, > > Good and Evil can be described as Empathy and lack of Empathy. This > can be extended to ultimately become Ahimsa.......ONS...Tony. yes, there is indifference, lack of responsiveness "i could do it but i feel so tired" and "i could do it but not for you" or the availability to the situation in peace eric Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 9, 2003 Report Share Posted May 9, 2003 , "saktidasa" <saktidasa> wrote: > Namaste.IMO, > > Good and Evil can be described as Empathy and lack of Empathy. This > can be extended to ultimately become Ahimsa.......ONS...Tony. devi: do you think you were (Ahimsak) when you posted that link to the ex-sai-devotees websites knowing that there was a devotee of his there? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 9, 2003 Report Share Posted May 9, 2003 , "devianandi" <devi@p...> wrote: > , "saktidasa" <saktidasa> > wrote: > > Namaste.IMO, > > > > Good and Evil can be described as Empathy and lack of Empathy. This > > can be extended to ultimately become Ahimsa.......ONS...Tony. > > devi: do you think you were (Ahimsak) when you posted that link to > the ex-sai-devotees websites knowing that there was a devotee of his > there? Namaste, I think if you warn people of danger and possible harm, it is a good thing. I only posted the url I didn't post anything else at that time.I myself was very nearly sexually molested and I know people that were molested as children by the guru in question. One doesn't have to click on the url, and if they do they don't have to enter. Namaste Ben, It actually fits the discussion on jnana and bhakti. For you have bhaktas following certain Gurus etc. Unfortunately many are frauds but the teachings are good, although they are not their own. In India this is not an unusual situation. My problem with the frauds is that eventually they hurt people,( I know some) and at that stage they often throw the baby out with the bath water. So they are counterproductive to many people's eventual spirituality. I like Advaita and the Buddha's teaching, for relying on others isn't really the path of Advaita. My own test of a teacher these days or advice rather is; If they have a desire, even one material desire, then they are not realised and hence a fraud. The Guru you mention has many desires, discounting the more higher profile ones, the one I first noticed was his desire for a certain type of food, and the chewing of betel nut. This indicated to me that he had at least one desire and therefore could not be what he was claiming. http://www.bridgeoflove.com/bookstore/icke/magazine/vol12/articles/fin dings1.html Om Namah Sivaya......Tony. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 9, 2003 Report Share Posted May 9, 2003 > > Namaste.IMO, > > > > Good and Evil can be described as Empathy and lack of Empathy. This > > can be extended to ultimately become Ahimsa.......ONS...Tony. > > yes, there is indifference, lack of responsiveness > "i could do it but i feel so tired" > and "i could do it but not for you" > > or the availability to the situation > in peace > eric I think I figured out how to fight against stupidity to be drilled in for now: have the "witness" on board with me when I went da 'anger' that gives some detachment love you guys, Karta Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 10, 2003 Report Share Posted May 10, 2003 I think if you warn people of danger and possible harm, it is a good > thing. devi: but i'm sure that that man who posted about sai baba got a bad feeling from your action, yes? now were talking about degrees of ahimsa and i've been looking at how i seem to fall short of perfect ahimsa myself and trying to cultivate it more...i'm wondering, to you get hurt by other peoples remarks? My own test of a teacher these days or advice rather is; If they have a desire, even one material desire, then they are not realised and hence a fraud. The Guru you mention has many desires, discounting the more higher profile ones, the one I first noticed was his desire for a certain type of food, and the chewing of betel nut. This indicated to me that he had at least one desire and therefore could not be what he was claiming. devi: i'm assuming from your statement here that you don't judge nisargaddata as an authentic Guru? > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 10, 2003 Report Share Posted May 10, 2003 , "devianandi" <devi@p...> wrote: > > I think if you warn people of danger and possible harm, it is a good > > thing. > devi: but i'm sure that that man who posted about sai baba got a bad > feeling from your action, yes? now were talking about degrees of > ahimsa and i've been looking at how i seem to fall short of perfect > ahimsa myself and trying to cultivate it more...i'm wondering, to you > get hurt by other peoples remarks? > > My own test of a teacher these days or advice rather is; If they have > a desire, even one material desire, then they are not realised and > hence a fraud. The Guru you mention has many desires, discounting > the more higher profile ones, the one I first noticed was his desire > for a certain type of food, and the chewing of betel nut. This > indicated to me that he had at least one desire and therefore could > not be what he was claiming. > > devi: i'm assuming from your statement here that you don't judge > nisargaddata as an authentic Guru? Namaste D, Yes that is an interesting question. Nisargadatta did smoke and refused to stop the habit. That does puzzle me but that may be the last desire he had, and he may have dropped before leaving the body. My point about the false gurus, is that many claim to be purna avatars or the equivalent of a Jivanmukti. A Jivanmukti has no desire for any kind of habit, for a desire is a personal thought. IMO. So a certain guru being addicted to betel nut or desiring a certain type of Andhra breakfast cereal only, is a definite desire. I'm not say that some people close to Moksha cannot teach but the definition of a true Guru is Brahman....DESIRELESS My question is really referred to people who claim to be Brahman and realised etc etc, not other teachers. I don't think Maharaj claimed any great or grandiose status........ONS....Tony. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 10, 2003 Report Share Posted May 10, 2003 , "saktidasa" <saktidasa> wrote: > , "devianandi" <devi@p...> wrote: > > > > I think if you warn people of danger and possible harm, it is a > good > > > thing. > > devi: but i'm sure that that man who posted about sai baba got a > bad > > feeling from your action, yes? now were talking about degrees of > > ahimsa and i've been looking at how i seem to fall short of perfect > > ahimsa myself and trying to cultivate it more...i'm wondering, to > you > > get hurt by other peoples remarks? > > > > My own test of a teacher these days or advice rather is; If they > have > > a desire, even one material desire, then they are not realised and > > hence a fraud. The Guru you mention has many desires, discounting > > the more higher profile ones, the one I first noticed was his > desire > > for a certain type of food, and the chewing of betel nut. This > > indicated to me that he had at least one desire and therefore > could > > not be what he was claiming. > > > > devi: i'm assuming from your statement here that you don't judge > > nisargaddata as an authentic Guru? > > Namaste D, > > Yes that is an interesting question. Nisargadatta did smoke and > refused to stop the habit. That does puzzle me but that may be the > last desire he had, and he may have dropped before leaving the body. > > My point about the false gurus, is that many claim to be purna > avatars or the equivalent of a Jivanmukti. A Jivanmukti has no desire > for any kind of habit, for a desire is a personal thought. IMO. > So a certain guru being addicted to betel nut or desiring a certain > type of Andhra breakfast cereal only, is a definite desire. > I'm not say that some people close to Moksha cannot teach but the > definition of a true Guru is Brahman....DESIRELESS > > My question is really referred to people who claim to be Brahman and > realised etc etc, not other teachers. I don't think Maharaj claimed > any great or grandiose status........ONS....Tony. devi: Nisargadatta said things like *i realized when i was 38*. i think it funny that your looking at things like habits and seemingly desires to make a judgement like that. anyway, is there anyone you might have no doubt about being realized...i am pretty sure baba hari dass is desireless, when i see His behavior, say for example, he askes someone to pick up a rock,(he works alot on builing projects) is that a desire or what is it? is there anyone who you think is more realized then yourself? do you think sai baba is more enlightnened then yourself despite his (quirk)? i have an interesting article to show you. should i e-mail it to you? i don't think it's appropriate for most clubs..?oh, one more thought,,ramana realized at a fairly early age and then went to live in a cave for many years, do you remember what motivated Him to leave the cave.? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 10, 2003 Report Share Posted May 10, 2003 KARMA LEFT IN THE BODY PERHAPS? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 13, 2003 Report Share Posted May 13, 2003 My own test of a teacher these days or advice rather is; If they have a desire, even one material desire, then they are not realised and hence a fraud. Yes that is an interesting question. Nisargadatta did smoke and refused to stop the habit. That does puzzle me but that may be the last desire he had, and he may have dropped before leaving the body. Dear All pasted these two separate comments and would like to add that Eckhart Tolle, whom I believe to be Realized, clarified this for me by saying that Karma has a certain momentum and continues for some time after realization. The body may have certain needs but underneath this is awareness of peace regardless of outcome. That he still enjoyed chocolate but if he didn't have it again he would not be concerned same with sex. His definition of the God-realized state Complete alignment with life with what is. A total acceptance of what arises in the field of now. Once it is accepted you can decide what to do, its not a question of being a doormat. Ramana had strong thoughts about how life on his ashram should be conducted so it might be said that was a desire, however rules were relaxed when appropriate. For me its important not to have a concept of what God-realization is. Those who are can only point to it and indeed are a signpost themselves. Anyway I don't think its important who is or isn't. Its all about finding out who you are. i.e. "Who am I" It just isn't about any one else. Much respect to All Chris H Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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