kundilini?

[Guest guest]

hi harshaji, i have a question, do you know if the kundilini

expereince is mandatory to self-realiztion...? have you heard of a

realizer who hasn't had that? sincerely

devi

[Guest guest]

On 5/26/03 at 12:29 AM devianandi wrote:

 

ºhi harshaji, i have a question, do you know if the kundilini

ºexpereince is mandatory to self-realiztion...? have you heard of a

ºrealizer who hasn't had that? sincerely

ºdevi

 

 

Hi devi,

 

Both Western and Eastern symbology is suggestive, K. is dormant

in most ppl. In the West, expressed in fairy tales like Snow White

and the seven dwarfs (put to sleep due to eating the poisoned apple

(Maya)). In the East, descriptions like K. is residing in a state of

potency, brilliant as a million suns, or as a dormant snake, coiled

around the base center (one of the sounds accompanying the

awakening is listed as "hissing"). All descriptions have in common,

"something" has to happen to end the state of dormancy.

 

This "something" isn't defined, can be a "lost love" issue (like some Sufi

stories suggest) as well as the apperception event (termed self-realization,

enlightenment). Hence the "K. issue" can be found even in a few statements

by the Buddha by those familiar with the wide range of phenomena, side-effects

and so called "road marks".

 

But in the case of the Buddha, there was a very good reason not to engage in

K. related affairs: the way to end suffering implies a thorough transformation

of

the mind-body, so that mental agonies and physical pain become impossible.

The transformative energy (of course) is what in yoga is termed K.. In the

N.T., the onset of K. awakening is symbolized by a dove landing:

 

Lu:3:22: And the Holy Ghost descended in a bodily shape like a dove upon him,

and a voice came from heaven, which said, Thou art my beloved Son;

in thee I am well pleased.

 

An anecdote from Purohit Swami on the issue is attached.

Attachment: (image/jpeg) Faith.jpg [not stored]

[Guest guest]

ecirada wrote:

> On 5/26/03 at 12:29 AM devianandi wrote:

>

> ºhi harshaji, i have a question, do you know if the kundilini

> ºexpereince is mandatory to self-realiztion...? have you heard of

a

> ºrealizer who hasn't had that? sincerely

> ºdevi

>

>

> Hi devi,

>

> Both Western and Eastern symbology is suggestive, K. is dormant

> in most ppl. In the West, expressed in fairy tales like Snow White

> and the seven dwarfs (put to sleep due to eating the poisoned apple

> (Maya)). In the East, descriptions like K. is residing in a state of

> potency, brilliant as a million suns, or as a dormant snake, coiled

> around the base center (one of the sounds accompanying the

> awakening is listed as "hissing"). All descriptions have in common,

> "something" has to happen to end the state of dormancy.

>

> This "something" isn't defined, can be a "lost love" issue (like

some Sufi

> stories suggest) as well as the apperception event (termed self-

realization,

> enlightenment). Hence the "K. issue" can be found even in a few

statements

> by the Buddha by those familiar with the wide range of phenomena,

side-effects

> and so called "road marks".

>

> But in the case of the Buddha, there was a very good reason not to

engage in

> K. related affairs: the way to end suffering implies a thorough

transformation of

> the mind-body, so that mental agonies and physical pain become

impossible.

> The transformative energy (of course) is what in yoga is termed K..

In the

> N.T., the onset of K. awakening is symbolized by a dove landing:

>

> Lu:3:22: And the Holy Ghost descended in a bodily shape like a dove

upon him,

> and a voice came from heaven, which said, Thou art my beloved Son;

> in thee I am well pleased.

>

> An anecdote from Purohit Swami on the issue is attached.

 

dear ecirada,

i though the topic was about the precise description found in the

hindu kundalini literature of stages and the order of experiences;

it looks like your answer deals with grace in all cultures;

that is:

grace enters in the field of consciousness (i mean the self enters)

can be perceived at all times (any time one cares to look or is more

hardly pushed by its presence); is manifested as joy or penetration

in any topic that does not belong to one's regular capabilities or a

severe reduction of the level of fear (social or instinctive)

if this is kundalini awakening

my question is

once it enters in the field

any vichara is useless?

or does one have to push and push until all traces of ignorance are

removed (consciousness in deep sleep)

thank you for any hint and tip

in bliss

eric

[Guest guest]

On 5/26/03 at 3:37 PM eric paroissien wrote:

 

[...]

ºmy question is

ºonce it enters in the field

ºany vichara is useless?

ºor does one have to push and push until all traces of ignorance are

ºremoved (consciousness in deep sleep)

ºthank you for any hint and tip

ºin bliss

ºeric

 

Vichara in the sense of the "who" am i is a precursor.

Non-differentiation or nirguna is the absolute nowhere_land.

Beyond imagination, perception, concepts.

Deep sleep is suspension of the "awareness_of" function.

Suspension ended, only the aftertaste of bliss remains.

This bliss is most subtle, easily gets veiled. Widening enquiry

to the extent that nothing veils that bliss is a lifestyle: "answers"

are in the issues stirring up emotions like anger. To avoid avoidance

is wisdom here (pun intended!).

 

Another angle is from Tibetan Buddhism, on the issue of Bardo.

It isn't really on the issue of dying but on a property shared by

all creatures, the fight & flight mechanism, operating in all bardos.

The teaching, not to fight, not to flee, but to face, can be practiced

only, when all bodies are alive and working properly. Hence the book

was written to be practiced while "alive", in a sense of a visit to Yama

before that happens "naturally".

 

Jan

[Guest guest]

, "ecirada" <ecirada> wrote:

> On 5/26/03 at 3:37 PM eric paroissien wrote:

>

> [...]

> ºmy question is

> ºonce it enters in the field

> ºany vichara is useless?

> ºor does one have to push and push until all traces of ignorance

are

> ºremoved (consciousness in deep sleep)

> ºthank you for any hint and tip

> ºin bliss

> ºeric

>

> Vichara in the sense of the "who" am i is a precursor.

> Non-differentiation or nirguna is the absolute nowhere_land.

> Beyond imagination, perception, concepts.

> Deep sleep is suspension of the "awareness_of" function.

> Suspension ended, only the aftertaste of bliss remains.

> This bliss is most subtle, easily gets veiled. Widening enquiry

> to the extent that nothing veils that bliss is a

lifestyle: "answers"

> are in the issues stirring up emotions like anger. To avoid

avoidance

> is wisdom here (pun intended!).

thank you jan

bliss is the burner of pain and anger; and a tiny place on the plexus

tickles for ten seconds to ten minutes then a great joy.

but unawareness covers like snow the sprouts for spring.

the effort of quelling thoughts as they occur, is as impossible as

ever?! tiny human effort should help melt all that snow?

grace should be a help for better attention but is not

but where is the observer? (this question for me)

there is very little of one's possible doing left

>

> Another angle is from Tibetan Buddhism, on the issue of Bardo.

> It isn't really on the issue of dying but on a property shared by

> all creatures, the fight & flight mechanism, operating in all

bardos.

> The teaching, not to fight, not to flee, but to face, can be

practiced

> only, when all bodies are alive and working properly.

 

Hence the book

> was written to be practiced while "alive", in a sense of a visit to

Yama

> before that happens "naturally".

 

i had a good visit at the doors of yama and hell, a good facing, it

helped a lot, a disastrous experience with drug wanting to experience

the lights of the bardo, then digesting the lesson for months

now there is a window always opened on peaceful beauty

possibly the whole process is quietly unfolding in my case without

needing any intervention (the next few months will tell, it is going

fast)

what do you see jan?

>

> Jan

[Guest guest]

On 5/26/03 at 9:46 PM eric paroissien wrote:

 

º, "ecirada" <ecirada> wrote:

º> On 5/26/03 at 3:37 PM eric paroissien wrote:

º>

º> [...]

º> ºmy question is

º> ºonce it enters in the field

º> ºany vichara is useless?

º> ºor does one have to push and push until all traces of ignorance

ºare

º> ºremoved (consciousness in deep sleep)

º> ºthank you for any hint and tip

º> ºin bliss

º> ºeric

º>

º> Vichara in the sense of the "who" am i is a precursor.

º> Non-differentiation or nirguna is the absolute nowhere_land.

º> Beyond imagination, perception, concepts.

º> Deep sleep is suspension of the "awareness_of" function.

º> Suspension ended, only the aftertaste of bliss remains.

º> This bliss is most subtle, easily gets veiled. Widening enquiry

º> to the extent that nothing veils that bliss is a

ºlifestyle: "answers"

º> are in the issues stirring up emotions like anger. To avoid

ºavoidance

º> is wisdom here (pun intended!).

ºthank you jan

ºbliss is the burner of pain and anger; and a tiny place on the plexus

ºtickles for ten seconds to ten minutes then a great joy.

ºbut unawareness covers like snow the sprouts for spring.

ºthe effort of quelling thoughts as they occur, is as impossible as

ºever?! tiny human effort should help melt all that snow?

ºgrace should be a help for better attention but is not

ºbut where is the observer? (this question for me)

ºthere is very little of one's possible doing left

º

º>

º> Another angle is from Tibetan Buddhism, on the issue of Bardo.

º> It isn't really on the issue of dying but on a property shared by

º> all creatures, the fight & flight mechanism, operating in all

ºbardos.

º> The teaching, not to fight, not to flee, but to face, can be

ºpracticed

º> only, when all bodies are alive and working properly.

º

ºHence the book

º> was written to be practiced while "alive", in a sense of a visit to

ºYama

º> before that happens "naturally".

º

ºi had a good visit at the doors of yama and hell, a good facing, it

ºhelped a lot, a disastrous experience with drug wanting to experience

ºthe lights of the bardo, then digesting the lesson for months

ºnow there is a window always opened on peaceful beauty

ºpossibly the whole process is quietly unfolding in my case without

ºneeding any intervention (the next few months will tell, it is going

ºfast)

ºwhat do you see jan?

 

The symbolical visit to Yama is an all time classic:

i haven't met a better eye opener yet. It worked very well for me,

for the Buddha when near death due to ascetic practices,

and was a start for Ramana as well, clearly described in his biography.

Yet, nothing is easier to forget than the simple fact,

manifested life is transient.

º

º>

º> Jan

[Guest guest]

<once it enters in the field

any vichara is useless?

or does one have to push and push

until all traces of ignorance are

removed>

 

if trained in Kundalini yoga it is

a great pointer where to do vichara

 

but vichara is most important

 

love, Karta

> dear ecirada,

> i though the topic was about the precise description found in the

> hindu kundalini literature of stages and the order of experiences;

> it looks like your answer deals with grace in all cultures;

> that is:

> grace enters in the field of consciousness (i mean the self enters)

> can be perceived at all times (any time one cares to look or is more

> hardly pushed by its presence); is manifested as joy or penetration

> in any topic that does not belong to one's regular capabilities or a

> severe reduction of the level of fear (social or instinctive)

> if this is kundalini awakening

> my question is

 

once it enters in the field

any vichara is useless?

or does one have to push and push until all traces of ignorance are removed

(consciousness in deep sleep)

> thank you for any hint and tip

 

> in bliss

> eric

[Guest guest]

, "ecirada" <ecirada> wrote:

> On 5/26/03 at 9:46 PM eric paroissien wrote:

>

> º, "ecirada" <ecirada>

wrote:

> º> On 5/26/03 at 3:37 PM eric paroissien wrote:

> º>

> º> [...]

> º> ºmy question is

> º> ºonce it enters in the field

> º> ºany vichara is useless?

> º> ºor does one have to push and push until all traces of

ignorance

> ºare

> º> ºremoved (consciousness in deep sleep)

> º> ºthank you for any hint and tip

> º> ºin bliss

> º> ºeric

> º>

> º> Vichara in the sense of the "who" am i is a precursor.

> º> Non-differentiation or nirguna is the absolute nowhere_land.

> º> Beyond imagination, perception, concepts.

> º> Deep sleep is suspension of the "awareness_of" function.

> º> Suspension ended, only the aftertaste of bliss remains.

> º> This bliss is most subtle, easily gets veiled. Widening enquiry

> º> to the extent that nothing veils that bliss is a

> ºlifestyle: "answers"

> º> are in the issues stirring up emotions like anger. To avoid

> ºavoidance

> º> is wisdom here (pun intended!).

> ºthank you jan

> ºbliss is the burner of pain and anger; and a tiny place on the

plexus

> ºtickles for ten seconds to ten minutes then a great joy.

> ºbut unawareness covers like snow the sprouts for spring.

> ºthe effort of quelling thoughts as they occur, is as impossible

as

> ºever?! tiny human effort should help melt all that snow?

> ºgrace should be a help for better attention but is not

> ºbut where is the observer? (this question for me)

> ºthere is very little of one's possible doing left

> º

> º>

> º> Another angle is from Tibetan Buddhism, on the issue of Bardo.

> º> It isn't really on the issue of dying but on a property shared

by

> º> all creatures, the fight & flight mechanism, operating in all

> ºbardos.

> º> The teaching, not to fight, not to flee, but to face, can be

> ºpracticed

> º> only, when all bodies are alive and working properly.

> º

> ºHence the book

> º> was written to be practiced while "alive", in a sense of a

visit to

> ºYama

> º> before that happens "naturally".

> º

> ºi had a good visit at the doors of yama and hell, a good facing,

it

> ºhelped a lot, a disastrous experience with drug wanting to

experience

> ºthe lights of the bardo, then digesting the lesson for months

> ºnow there is a window always opened on peaceful beauty

> ºpossibly the whole process is quietly unfolding in my case

without

> ºneeding any intervention (the next few months will tell, it is

going

> ºfast)

> ºwhat do you see jan?

>

> The symbolical visit to Yama is an all time classic:

> i haven't met a better eye opener yet. It worked very well for me,

> for the Buddha when near death due to ascetic practices,

> and was a start for Ramana as well, clearly described in his

biography.

> Yet, nothing is easier to forget than the simple fact,

> manifested life is transient.

> º

> º>

> º> Jan

thank you jan

[Guest guest]

, "satkartar5" <sat_karta@h...>

wrote:

> <once it enters in the field

> any vichara is useless?

> or does one have to push and push

> until all traces of ignorance are

> removed>

>

> if trained in Kundalini yoga it is

> a great pointer where to do vichara

>

> but vichara is most important

>

> love, Karta

i go ahead with vichara

thank you karta

[Guest guest]

Hello Deviji,

 

Thank you for raising an interesting and a classic question on the

role of Shakti rising and Self- Realization. Many good people here

like Jan and others can comment on that. I recall writing about this

some years ago either on this list or another Kundalini list.

 

Sri Ramana has answered the question in the "Talks" as well.

 

Peace and love to all

 

 

May all beings be free from sorrow

Harsha

 

 

 

 

 

-- In , "devianandi" <devi@p...> wrote:

> hi harshaji, i have a question, do you know if the kundilini

> expereince is mandatory to self-realiztion...? have you heard of a

> realizer who hasn't had that? sincerely

> devi

[Guest guest]

, "harshaimtm"

wrote:

> Hello Deviji,

>

> Thank you for raising an interesting and a classic question on the

> role of Shakti rising and Self- Realization. Many good people here

> like Jan and others can comment on that. I recall writing about

this

> some years ago either on this list or another Kundalini list.

>

> Sri Ramana has answered the question in the "Talks" as well.

>

> Peace and love to all

>

>

> May all beings be free from sorrow

> Harsha

 

devi: i don't know who jan is

 

>

>

>

>

>

> -- In , "devianandi" <devi@p...>

wrote:

> > hi harshaji, i have a question, do you know if the kundilini

> > expereince is mandatory to self-realiztion...? have you heard of

a

> > realizer who hasn't had that? sincerely

> > devi

[Guest guest]

, "ecirada" <ecirada> wrote:

> On 5/26/03 at 12:29 AM devianandi wrote:

>

> ºhi harshaji, i have a question, do you know if the kundilini

> ºexpereince is mandatory to self-realiztion...? have you heard of a

> ºrealizer who hasn't had that? sincerely

> ºdevi

>

>

> Hi devi,

>

> Both Western and Eastern symbology is suggestive, K. is dormant

> in most ppl. In the West, expressed in fairy tales like Snow White

> and the seven dwarfs (put to sleep due to eating the poisoned apple

> (Maya)). In the East, descriptions like K. is residing in a state of

> potency, brilliant as a million suns, or as a dormant snake, coiled

> around the base center (one of the sounds accompanying the

> awakening is listed as "hissing"). All descriptions have in common,

> "something" has to happen to end the state of dormancy.

>

> This "something" isn't defined, can be a "lost love" issue (like

some Sufi

> stories suggest) as well as the apperception event (termed self-

realization,

> enlightenment). Hence the "K. issue" can be found even in a few

statements

> by the Buddha by those familiar with the wide range of phenomena,

side-effects

> and so called "road marks".

>

> But in the case of the Buddha, there was a very good reason not to

engage in

> K. related affairs: the way to end suffering implies a thorough

transformation of

> the mind-body, so that mental agonies and physical pain become

impossible.

> The transformative energy (of course) is what in yoga is termed K..

In the

> N.T., the onset of K. awakening is symbolized by a dove landing:

>

> Lu:3:22: And the Holy Ghost descended in a bodily shape like a dove

upon him,

> and a voice came from heaven, which said, Thou art my beloved Son;

> in thee I am well pleased.

>

> An anecdote from Purohit Swami on the issue is attached.

 

dvi: i read your attachment, thanks for your considerations, but

really, my question was a simple yes, no or i don't know type of

question, i still didn't get it from your answer

smiles

devi

(thats nice about the dove landing, by the way)

[Guest guest]

devi: oh, your jan,,,so can you answer my question with a simple yes,

no or i don't know..or maybe?

[Guest guest]

On 5/27/03 at 5:33 PM devianandi wrote:

 

ºdevi: oh, your jan,,,so can you answer my question with a simple yes,

ºno or i don't know..or maybe?

 

What can be forgotten (veiled) once can be forgotten (veiled) again

unless the conditions enabling that are removed.

Hence terms like "liberation" and "nirvana" - the K. issue.

Every creature is already born enlightened/self-realized.

[Guest guest]

, "harshaimtm"

wrote:

> Sri Ramana has answered the question in the "Talks" as well.

 

There are many interesting posts here.

 

A related discussion is at

 

s

 

k

 

i

 

p

 

 

a

 

d

 

http://hmt.com/kundalini/kundalini-faq.html#3

 

I would like to know what Sri Ramana said (but don't have my book

currently). He probably said "Find out who wants to know about

Kundalini." :-)

 

Kundalini advocates seem to abound in the Tantric (psychic energy)

schools.

 

peace,

david.

[Guest guest]

, "David King"

<david.king@p...> wrote:

> A related discussion is at

>

> s

>

> k

>

> i

>

> p

>

>

> a

>

> d

>

> http://hmt.com/kundalini/kundalini-faq.html#3

>

> I would like to know what Sri Ramana said (but don't have my book

> currently). He probably said "Find out who wants to know about

> Kundalini." :-)

>

> Kundalini advocates seem to abound in the Tantric (psychic energy)

> schools.

 

P.S. (You guys don't mind if I talk to myself?

>From The Shambhala Encyclopedia of Yoga:

 

"The final realization of the Tantric yogin is thought to be more

complete than that of the raja-yogin because it includes the body.

In other words, it is not merely a mind-transcending state but

illumines the body itself: The body is experienced as the body of

the Divine. In this way the Tantric yogin, or sadhaka, combines the

ideal of liberation (mukti) with the ideal of world enjoyment

(bhukti)."

 

Still, this falls into Da's criticism (from link above): an

experience of a body is not mukti (or however he said it).

 

Buddhism has nirmanakaya (physical body), sambogakaya (energy body),

and dharmakaya (spirit body). (Forgive any misspellings.)

 

Hinduism has gross, psychic, subtle, and causal bodies. (?)

 

Seems like kundalini is a sambogakaya or psychic event.

 

blah blah blah!

 

peace,

david.

[Guest guest]

, "David King" <david.king@p...>

wrote:

> , "harshaimtm"

> wrote:

>

> > Sri Ramana has answered the question in the "Talks" as well.

>

> There are many interesting posts here.

>

> A related discussion is at

>

> s

>

> k

>

> i

>

> p

>

>

> a

>

> d

>

> http://hmt.com/kundalini/kundalini-faq.html#3

>

> I would like to know what Sri Ramana said (but don't have my book

> currently). He probably said "Find out who wants to know about

> Kundalini." :-)

>

> Kundalini advocates seem to abound in the Tantric (psychic energy)

> schools.

>

> peace,

> david.

 

david when you say ramana would have said:

"find out who wants to konw..."

you make him very expected in his response;

but when the level of the questioner requires it he explains about

the crown of the head as the culmination of the process then a

descent back in the heart for a conclusion;

as i have no idea what he means here my quote is clumsy but i can

find the exact citation;

more qualified people will answer

in happiness

eric

[Guest guest]

there has definitely been something just above and now, stragely at

back of my head...

have been experiencing deeper meditation ...more i surrender....

not even wanting any 'special effects'...

just like a child and plead for Higher Grace to lift my ignorance [no

disrespect to Ignorance because that is the flip side/duality]

 

i am ignoring these physical sensations for the time-being, knowing

that i am not at a 'samadahi'level [not even grasping for that any

more]

 

.....it is the love-light in all manifestation, even in the tiniest

most banal detail....

.....so interesting this question of human 'hard-wiring'....

 

anyway rambling away as usual [while the cakes burn!]

km

..............

 

he explains about

> the crown of the head as the culmination of the process then a

> descent back in the heart for a conclusion;

> as i have no idea what he means here my quote is clumsy but i can

> find the exact citation;

> more qualified people will answer

> in happiness

> eric

[Guest guest]

On 5/28/03 at 5:41 AM David King wrote:

 

[...]

ºI would like to know what Sri Ramana said (but don't have my book

ºcurrently). He probably said "Find out who wants to know about

ºKundalini." :-)

 

Ramana's biography shows he was silent unless pressed for an answer.

"Silence" is the best pointer: amidst the traffic in a big city, your heartbeat,

blood running through the veins are inaudible but in a desertlike mountainous

area, at a windless night, they are the only sounds. When the "carnival" of

the mind (like chatter) subsides, other issues seem to pop up (yet they were

present all the time). Thus, any talk on K.is superfluous as the issue will

present itself in the course of events. Hence it is "enough" to list a few

road marks like the roaring sound pointed to as "AUM" which is

creed-independent, unlike visions of burning rivers, blue aliens and auras.

º

ºKundalini advocates seem to abound in the Tantric (psychic energy)

ºschools.

 

The energy issue can be summarized with "healthy lifestyle" which was

a non-issue when the Upanishads were composed. The term "sacred fire"

is used for K. and was one of the boons bestowed by Lord Yama to

Nachiketas (as a rule, visitors to Yama get silent).

 

Peace,

Jan

º

ºpeace,

ºdavid.

[Guest guest]

, "David King" <david.king@p...>

wrote:

> , "harshaimtm"

> wrote:

>

> > Sri Ramana has answered the question in the "Talks" as well.

>

> There are many interesting posts here.

>

> A related discussion is at

>

> s

>

> k

>

> i

>

> p

>

>

> a

>

> d

>

> http://hmt.com/kundalini/kundalini-faq.html#3

>

> I would like to know what Sri Ramana said (but don't have my book

> currently). He probably said "Find out who wants to know about

> Kundalini." :-)

>

> Kundalini advocates seem to abound in the Tantric (psychic energy)

> schools.

>

> peace,

> david.

 

Dear David:

 

Here is something on this topic.

 

Love

Bobby G.

 

ps; am currently listening to the new George Harrison cd. He seems

to say a lot in his songs about all this.

 

"I only found it out when I was down upon my knees, looking for my

life."-GH

 

Kundalini

>From The Teachings of

Sri Ramana Maharshi

Edited by David Godman

 

Question: Will concentration on Chakras quieten the mind?

 

Sri Ramana Maharshi: Fixing their minds on psychic centres such as

the Sahasrara (the thousand petalled lotus Chakra), yogis remain any

lengths of time without awareness of their bodies. As long as this

state continues, they appear to be immersed in some kind of joy. But

when the mind, which has become tranquil emerges and becomes active

again it resumes its worldly thoughts. It is therefore necessary to

train it with the help of practices like Dhyana (meditation) whenever

it becomes externalised. It will then attain a state in which there

is neither subsistence nor emergence.

 

Question: It is said that the Sakti manifests itself in five phases,

ten phases, a hundred phases and a thousand phases. Which is true?

 

Sri Ramana Maharshi: Sakti has only one phase. If it is said to

manifest itself in several phases, it is only a way of speaking. The

Sakti is only one.

 

Question: How to churn up the Nadis (psychic nerves) so that the

Kundalini may go up the Sushumna?

 

Sri Ramana Maharshi: Though the Yogi may have his methods of breath

control for his object, the Jnani's method is only that of enquiry.

When by this method the mind is merged in the Self, the Sakti or

Kundalini, which is not apart from the Self, rises automatically.

 

The Yogis attach the highest importance to sending the Kundalini up

to the Sahasrara, the brain centre or the thousand petalled lotus.

They point out the scriptural statement that the life current enters

the body through the fontanelle and argue that, Viyoga (separation)

having come about that way, yoga (union) must also be effected in the

reverse way. Therefore, they say, we must, by yoga practice, gather

up the Pranas (vital force) and enter the fontanelle for the

consummation of yoga. The Jnanis on the other hand point out that the

yogi assumes the existence of the body and its separateness from the

Self. Only if this standpoint of separateness is adopted can the yogi

advise effort for reunion by the practice of yoga.

 

In fact the body is in the mind which has the brain for its seat.

That the brain functions by light borrowed from another source is

admitted by the yogis themselves in their fontanelle theory. The

Jnani further argues: if the light is borrowed it must come from its

native source. Go to the source direct and do not depend on borrowed

sources. That source is the Heart, the Self.

 

The Self does not come from anywhere else and enter the body through

the crown of the head. It is as it is, ever sparkling, ever steady,

unmoving and unchanging. The individual confines himself to the

limits of the changeful body or of the mind which derives its

existence from the unchanging Self. All that is necessary is to give

up this mistaken identity, and that done, the ever shining Self will

be seen to be the single non-dual reality.

 

If one concentrates on the Sahasrara there is no doubt that the

ecstasy of Samadhi ensues. The Vasanas, that is the latent mental

tendencies, are not however destroyed. The yogi is therefore bound to

wake up from the Samadhi because release from bondage has not yet

been accomplished. He must still try to eradicate the Vasanas

inherent in him so that they cease to disturb the peace of his

Samadhi. So he passes down from the Sahasrara to the Heart through

what is called the Jivanadi, which is only a continuation of the

Sushumna. The Sushumna is thus a curve. It starts from the lowest

Chakra, rises through the spinal cord to the brain and from there

bends down and ends in the Heart. When the yogi has reached the

Heart, the Samadhi becomes permanent. Thus we see that the Heart is

the final centre.

 

[Note: Commentary by David Godman: Sri Ramana Maharshi never advised

his devotees to parctise Kundalini Yoga since he regarded it as being

both potentially dangerous and unnecessary. He accepted the existence

of the Kundalini power and the Chakras but he said that even if the

Kundalini reached the Sahsrara it would not result in realisation.

For final realisation, he said, the Kundalini must go beyond the

Sahasrara, down another Nadi (psychic nerve) he called Amritanadi

(also called the Paranadi or Jivanadi) and into the Heart-centre on

the right hand side of the chest. Since he maintained that self-

enquiry would automatically send the Kundalini to the Heart-centre,

he taught that separate yoga exercises were unnecessary.

 

The practitioners of Kundalini Yoga concentrate on psychic centres

(Chakras) in the body in order to generate a spiritual power they

call Kundalini. The aim of this practice is to force the Kundalini up

the psychic channel (the Sushumna) which runs from the base of the

spine to the brain. The Kundalini Yogi believes that when this power

reaches the Sahasrara (the highest Chakra located in the brain), Self-

realisation will result.

 

Sri Ramana Maharshi taught that the Self is reached by the search for

the origin of the ego and by diving into the Heart. This is the

direct method of Self-realisation. One who adopts it need not worry

about Nadis, the brain centre (Sahasrara), the Sushumna, the

Paranadi, the Kundalini, Pranayama or the six centres (Chakras).

________________________________

[Guest guest]

, "texasbg2000" <Bigbobgraham@a...> wrote:

> Here is something on this topic.

 

Thank you so much, Bobby G!

 

Sri Ramana's commentary is insightful and masterful, as always, and resonates

with some of the other teachers.

 

Enjoy your George Harrison CD. :-)

 

peace,

david.

[Guest guest]

, "David King"

<david.king@p...> wrote:

> Sri Ramana's commentary is insightful and masterful, as always,

and resonates with some of the other teachers.

 

P.S. (Here I go again...)

 

This makes me wonder why the original hyperlink I posted

characterizes Da's criticism as "unique" as he seems to be restating

Sri Ramana's viewpoint in so many words.

 

So many words. :-)

 

namaste,

david.

[Guest guest]

, "David King" <david.king@p...>

wrote:

> , "David King"

> <david.king@p...> wrote:

>

> > Sri Ramana's commentary is insightful and masterful, as always,

> and resonates with some of the other teachers.

>

> P.S. (Here I go again...)

>

> This makes me wonder why the original hyperlink I posted

> characterizes Da's criticism as "unique" as he seems to be

restating

> Sri Ramana's viewpoint in so many words.

>

> So many words. :-)

>

> namaste,

> david.

 

I was familiar with Sri Ramana's viewpoint on K but when I posted

that view on another board recently all hell broke loose. I finally

looked it up and posted it but the cat was out of the bag by then and

opinions were flying. K is a touchy subject for some reason.

 

Bobby G.

[Guest guest]

Dear Bobby,

On the HS website, I have distinguished between the Psychic Heart of Kundalini

Yoga, the physical heart, and the Spiritual Heart that Sri Ramana talks about.

Have you read that?

Much of the confusion in Kundalini Yoga comes from practitioners who have

known only part of the Shakti movement and are not aware of its final resting

place. This is seen even in very advanced yogis and gurus as well.

Perhaps some of this can be understood by Sri Ramana's comment that many

yogis attain salvation at higher planes and only few get absolved right here

on the earth plane. Does anyone remember the source of that off hand comment

by the Sage? :-). This is a Sri Ramana quiz! :-).

Love to all

Harsha

texasbg2000 wrote:

 

I was familiar with Sri Ramana's viewpoint on K but when I posted

that view on another board recently all hell broke loose. I finally

looked it up and posted it but the cat was out of the bag by then and

opinions were flying. K is a touchy subject for some reason.

Bobby G.

[Guest guest]

, Harsha wrote:

> Dear Bobby,

>

> On the HS website, I have distinguished between the Psychic Heart

of

> Kundalini Yoga, the physical heart, and the Spiritual Heart that

Sri

> Ramana talks about. Have you read that?

>

> Much of the confusion in Kundalini Yoga comes from practitioners

who

> have known only part of the Shakti movement and are not aware of

its

> final resting place. This is seen even in very advanced yogis and

gurus

> as well.

>

> Perhaps some of this can be understood by Sri Ramana's comment that

many

> yogis attain salvation at higher planes and only few get absolved

right

> here on the earth plane. Does anyone remember the source of that

off

> hand comment by the Sage? :-). This is a Sri Ramana quiz! :-).

>

> Love to all

> Harsha

>

 

yes harsha,

faulty memory says that in a passage of "talks with ramana" it is

reported that dear ramana mentionned that many had to finish what had

been started here on other planes (yet no direct conversation

recording in this memory).

i could check in two or three hours but others will come forth.

in bliss

eric