Guest guest Posted May 28, 2003 Report Share Posted May 28, 2003 Thanks Bobby! Excellent. David Godman has put together all the relevant conversations from the "Talks" and other sources very nicely in different sections of "Be As You Are". I will pass this on to the RamanaMaharshi list as well. Ramana Maharshi, what can one really say about the Sage of Arunachala? To those who saw his body form only, the Sri Ramana was a simple person. Yet the greatest yogis of India and Shankracharyas sat at his feet. To appreciate Sri Ramana's teaching fully, one has to have a very subtle intellect and the flow of Grace. Sri Ramana's words are Grace. His Silence is Grace. That Grace is the Heart, our own Heart, One Heart.. Kundalini practitioners and yogis can understand the teachings of Sri Ramana when the Shakti has traveled all the way to Sahasarara and then has been drawn into the Spiritual Heart. One realizes then the Shakti and the Heart are the same. Love to all Harsha texasbg2000 wrote: >From The Teachings of Sri Ramana Maharshi Edited by David Godman Question: Will concentration on Chakras quieten the mind? Sri Ramana Maharshi: Fixing their minds on psychic centres such as the Sahasrara (the thousand petalled lotus Chakra), yogis remain any lengths of time without awareness of their bodies. As long as this state continues, they appear to be immersed in some kind of joy. But when the mind, which has become tranquil emerges and becomes active again it resumes its worldly thoughts. It is therefore necessary to train it with the help of practices like Dhyana (meditation) whenever it becomes externalised. It will then attain a state in which there is neither subsistence nor emergence. Question: It is said that the Sakti manifests itself in five phases, ten phases, a hundred phases and a thousand phases. Which is true? Sri Ramana Maharshi: Sakti has only one phase. If it is said to manifest itself in several phases, it is only a way of speaking. The Sakti is only one. Question: How to churn up the Nadis (psychic nerves) so that the Kundalini may go up the Sushumna? Sri Ramana Maharshi: Though the Yogi may have his methods of breath control for his object, the Jnani's method is only that of enquiry. When by this method the mind is merged in the Self, the Sakti or Kundalini, which is not apart from the Self, rises automatically. The Yogis attach the highest importance to sending the Kundalini up to the Sahasrara, the brain centre or the thousand petalled lotus. They point out the scriptural statement that the life current enters the body through the fontanelle and argue that, Viyoga (separation) having come about that way, yoga (union) must also be effected in the reverse way. Therefore, they say, we must, by yoga practice, gather up the Pranas (vital force) and enter the fontanelle for the consummation of yoga. The Jnanis on the other hand point out that the yogi assumes the existence of the body and its separateness from the Self. Only if this standpoint of separateness is adopted can the yogi advise effort for reunion by the practice of yoga. In fact the body is in the mind which has the brain for its seat. That the brain functions by light borrowed from another source is admitted by the yogis themselves in their fontanelle theory. The Jnani further argues: if the light is borrowed it must come from its native source. Go to the source direct and do not depend on borrowed sources. That source is the Heart, the Self. The Self does not come from anywhere else and enter the body through the crown of the head. It is as it is, ever sparkling, ever steady, unmoving and unchanging. The individual confines himself to the limits of the changeful body or of the mind which derives its existence from the unchanging Self. All that is necessary is to give up this mistaken identity, and that done, the ever shining Self will be seen to be the single non-dual reality. If one concentrates on the Sahasrara there is no doubt that the ecstasy of Samadhi ensues. The Vasanas, that is the latent mental tendencies, are not however destroyed. The yogi is therefore bound to wake up from the Samadhi because release from bondage has not yet been accomplished. He must still try to eradicate the Vasanas inherent in him so that they cease to disturb the peace of his Samadhi. So he passes down from the Sahasrara to the Heart through what is called the Jivanadi, which is only a continuation of the Sushumna. The Sushumna is thus a curve. It starts from the lowest Chakra, rises through the spinal cord to the brain and from there bends down and ends in the Heart. When the yogi has reached the Heart, the Samadhi becomes permanent. Thus we see that the Heart is the final centre. [Note: Commentary by David Godman: Sri Ramana Maharshi never advised his devotees to parctise Kundalini Yoga since he regarded it as being both potentially dangerous and unnecessary. He accepted the existence of the Kundalini power and the Chakras but he said that even if the Kundalini reached the Sahsrara it would not result in realisation. For final realisation, he said, the Kundalini must go beyond the Sahasrara, down another Nadi (psychic nerve) he called Amritanadi (also called the Paranadi or Jivanadi) and into the Heart-centre on the right hand side of the chest. Since he maintained that self- enquiry would automatically send the Kundalini to the Heart-centre, he taught that separate yoga exercises were unnecessary. The practitioners of Kundalini Yoga concentrate on psychic centres (Chakras) in the body in order to generate a spiritual power they call Kundalini. The aim of this practice is to force the Kundalini up the psychic channel (the Sushumna) which runs from the base of the spine to the brain. The Kundalini Yogi believes that when this power reaches the Sahasrara (the highest Chakra located in the brain), Self- realisation will result. Sri Ramana Maharshi taught that the Self is reached by the search for the origin of the ego and by diving into the Heart. This is the direct method of Self-realisation. One who adopts it need not worry about Nadis, the brain centre (Sahasrara), the Sushumna, the Paranadi, the Kundalini, Pranayama or the six centres (Chakras). ________________________________ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 28, 2003 Report Share Posted May 28, 2003 , Harsha wrote: > Thanks Bobby! Excellent. David Godman has put together all the relevant > conversations from the "Talks" and other sources very nicely in > different sections of "Be As You Are". I will pass this on to the > RamanaMaharshi list as well. > > Ramana Maharshi, what can one really say about the Sage of Arunachala? > To those who saw his body form only, the Sri Ramana was a simple person. > > Yet the greatest yogis of India and Shankracharyas sat at his feet. > > To appreciate Sri Ramana's teaching fully, one has to have a very subtle > intellect and the flow of Grace. Sri Ramana's words are Grace. His > Silence is Grace. That Grace is the Heart, our own Heart, One Heart.. > > Kundalini practitioners and yogis can understand the teachings of Sri > Ramana when the Shakti has traveled all the way to Sahasarara and then > has been drawn into the Spiritual Heart. One realizes then the Shakti > and the Heart are the same. > > Love to all > Harsha > > texasbg2000 wrote: > > > > > >From The Teachings of > > Sri Ramana Maharshi > > Edited by David Godman > > > > Question: Will concentration on Chakras quieten the mind? > > > > Sri Ramana Maharshi: Fixing their minds on psychic centres such as > > the Sahasrara (the thousand petalled lotus Chakra), yogis remain any > > lengths of time without awareness of their bodies. As long as this > > state continues, they appear to be immersed in some kind of joy. But > > when the mind, which has become tranquil emerges and becomes active > > again it resumes its worldly thoughts. It is therefore necessary to > > train it with the help of practices like Dhyana (meditation) whenever > > it becomes externalised. It will then attain a state in which there > > is neither subsistence nor emergence. > > > > Question: It is said that the Sakti manifests itself in five phases, > > ten phases, a hundred phases and a thousand phases. Which is true? > > > > Sri Ramana Maharshi: Sakti has only one phase. If it is said to > > manifest itself in several phases, it is only a way of speaking. The > > Sakti is only one. > > > > Question: How to churn up the Nadis (psychic nerves) so that the > > Kundalini may go up the Sushumna? > > > > Sri Ramana Maharshi: Though the Yogi may have his methods of breath > > control for his object, the Jnani's method is only that of enquiry. > > When by this method the mind is merged in the Self, the Sakti or > > Kundalini, which is not apart from the Self, rises automatically. > > > > The Yogis attach the highest importance to sending the Kundalini up > > to the Sahasrara, the brain centre or the thousand petalled lotus. > > They point out the scriptural statement that the life current enters > > the body through the fontanelle and argue that, Viyoga (separation) > > having come about that way, yoga (union) must also be effected in the > > reverse way. Therefore, they say, we must, by yoga practice, gather > > up the Pranas (vital force) and enter the fontanelle for the > > consummation of yoga. The Jnanis on the other hand point out that the > > yogi assumes the existence of the body and its separateness from the > > Self. Only if this standpoint of separateness is adopted can the yogi > > advise effort for reunion by the practice of yoga. > > > > In fact the body is in the mind which has the brain for its seat. > > That the brain functions by light borrowed from another source is > > admitted by the yogis themselves in their fontanelle theory. The > > Jnani further argues: if the light is borrowed it must come from its > > native source. Go to the source direct and do not depend on borrowed > > sources. That source is the Heart, the Self. > > > > The Self does not come from anywhere else and enter the body through > > the crown of the head. It is as it is, ever sparkling, ever steady, > > unmoving and unchanging. The individual confines himself to the > > limits of the changeful body or of the mind which derives its > > existence from the unchanging Self. All that is necessary is to give > > up this mistaken identity, and that done, the ever shining Self will > > be seen to be the single non-dual reality. > > > > If one concentrates on the Sahasrara there is no doubt that the > > ecstasy of Samadhi ensues. The Vasanas, that is the latent mental > > tendencies, are not however destroyed. The yogi is therefore bound to > > wake up from the Samadhi because release from bondage has not yet > > been accomplished. He must still try to eradicate the Vasanas > > inherent in him so that they cease to disturb the peace of his > > Samadhi. So he passes down from the Sahasrara to the Heart through > > what is called the Jivanadi, which is only a continuation of the > > Sushumna. The Sushumna is thus a curve. It starts from the lowest > > Chakra, rises through the spinal cord to the brain and from there > > bends down and ends in the Heart. When the yogi has reached the > > Heart, the Samadhi becomes permanent. Thus we see that the Heart is > > the final centre. > > > > [Note: Commentary by David Godman: Sri Ramana Maharshi never advised > > his devotees to parctise Kundalini Yoga since he regarded it as being > > both potentially dangerous and unnecessary. He accepted the existence > > of the Kundalini power and the Chakras but he said that even if the > > Kundalini reached the Sahsrara it would not result in realisation. > > For final realisation, he said, the Kundalini must go beyond the > > Sahasrara, down another Nadi (psychic nerve) he called Amritanadi > > (also called the Paranadi or Jivanadi) and into the Heart-centre on > > the right hand side of the chest. Since he maintained that self- > > enquiry would automatically send the Kundalini to the Heart-centre, > > he taught that separate yoga exercises were unnecessary. > > > > The practitioners of Kundalini Yoga concentrate on psychic centres > > (Chakras) in the body in order to generate a spiritual power they > > call Kundalini. The aim of this practice is to force the Kundalini up > > the psychic channel (the Sushumna) which runs from the base of the > > spine to the brain. The Kundalini Yogi believes that when this power > > reaches the Sahasrara (the highest Chakra located in the brain), Self- > > realisation will result. > > > > Sri Ramana Maharshi taught that the Self is reached by the search for > > the origin of the ego and by diving into the Heart. This is the > > direct method of Self-realisation. One who adopts it need not worry > > about Nadis, the brain centre (Sahasrara), the Sushumna, the > > Paranadi, the Kundalini, Pranayama or the six centres (Chakras). > > ________________________________ <http://www.davidgodman.org/rteach/iandii1.shtml> <http://www.geocities.com/mi_nok/realiz.html> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 30, 2003 Report Share Posted May 30, 2003 , "satkartar5" <sat_karta@h...> wrote: > , Harsha wrote: > > Thanks Bobby! Excellent. David Godman has put together all the relevant Namaste S, Yes there so much rubbish written about Kundalini. K is everywhere all the time for it is the energy. My contribution to this is that it is not a movement of energy at all but of 'attention'. I was thrown off one list on K for propounding this heresy and an even greater heresy that K was actually the moving of prana. As Ramana says the consciousness rises by itself with enquiry, without the concepts...........ONS....Tony. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 30, 2003 Report Share Posted May 30, 2003 , "saktidasa" <saktidasa> wrote: > , "satkartar5" <sat_karta@h...> > wrote: > > , Harsha wrote: > > > Thanks Bobby! Excellent. David Godman has put together all the > relevant > > Namaste S, > > Yes there so much rubbish written about Kundalini. K is everywhere > all the time for it is the energy. My contribution to this is that it > is not a movement of energy at all but of 'attention'. > I was thrown off one list on K for propounding this heresy and an > even greater heresy that K was actually the moving of prana. > > As Ramana says the consciousness rises by itself with enquiry, > without the concepts...........ONS....Tony. dear tony, i would not dare propose here a continuum fromm pure matter/avidya to pure consciousness/self along which our spiritual path would be moving but.... from the point of view that a realized person never denied that there was a time before, and if i consider myself to be in the time before, with some interesting caracteristics of the time after... then in all this space before where language exists with differenciation and diversity, you cannot bring everybody's questions and experiences to an hypothetical non-dual experience and the eternal self that reabsorbs all things... unless you are the self unhindered and free (?) you ... tony... for the rest of us, mystical constructions in time and space, cosmology and representations of the world, supported by first hand 'experience' or not, will be the daily bread and milk of those who seek earnestly (don't take it away from us unless you provide a valuable darshan)(smile!) in happiness eric Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 30, 2003 Report Share Posted May 30, 2003 , "eric paroissien" <peaceisit@a...> wrote: > > Yes there so much rubbish written about Kundalini. K is everywhere >> for the rest of us, mystical constructions in time and space, > cosmology and representations of the world, supported by first > hand 'experience' or not, will be the daily bread and milk of those > who seek earnestly (don't take it away from us unless you provide a > valuable darshan)(smile!) > in happiness > eric i am mystified! the way people reach the 'source' can be different each valid... upto each what 'sorcery' is practised mattter/avidya? how can that be? the Divine is both matter and energy [ just different vibrational levels] and the challenge is a radical alchemy greater than any kunadlini rope trick.... and the bottom line, many people claim 'kundalini this and that' but there is one jesus, one buddha, one ramana, none of whom said hey guys, look up your a... instead that said : stayed focussed here and now, carry the cross of duality/non-duality1 - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 31, 2003 Report Share Posted May 31, 2003 , "eric paroissien" > > > > Namaste S, > > > > Yes there so much rubbish written about Kundalini. K is everywhere > > all the time for it is the energy. My contribution to this is that > it > > is not a movement of energy at all but of 'attention'. > > I was thrown off one list on K for propounding this heresy and an > > even greater heresy that K was actually the moving of prana. > > > > As Ramana says the consciousness rises by itself with enquiry, > > without the concepts...........ONS....Tony. > > dear tony, > i would not dare propose here a continuum fromm pure matter/avidya to > pure consciousness/self along which our spiritual path would be > moving but.... > from the point of view that a realized person never denied that there > was a time before, and if i consider myself to be in the time before, > with some interesting caracteristics of the time after... > then in all this space before where language exists with > differenciation and diversity, you cannot bring everybody's questions > and experiences to an hypothetical non-dual experience and the > eternal self that reabsorbs all things... > unless you are the self unhindered and free (?) > you ... tony... > for the rest of us, mystical constructions in time and space, > cosmology and representations of the world, supported by first > hand 'experience' or not, will be the daily bread and milk of those > who seek earnestly (don't take it away from us unless you provide a > valuable darshan)(smile!) > in happiness > eric Namaste E, Yes that's a point the world is full of points and pointy heads...Tony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 31, 2003 Report Share Posted May 31, 2003 My contribution to this is that it > is not a movement of energy at all but of 'attention'. > I was thrown off one list on K for propounding this heresy and an > even greater heresy that K was actually the moving of prana. > > As Ramana says the consciousness rises by itself with enquiry, > without the concepts...........ONS....Tony. devi: first you type that kundilini is not a movement then you go on to type that consciousness rises, then you go even further to say that k is actuallly pran and it is moving...i say that when my kundilini *awoke* it went up and down my spine and it was a wonderful feeling...going up and down seems to me to be a movement...smiles Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 31, 2003 Report Share Posted May 31, 2003 , "saktidasa" <saktidasa> wrote: > , "eric paroissien" > > > > > Namaste S, > > > > > > Yes there so much rubbish written about Kundalini. K is > everywhere > > > all the time for it is the energy. My contribution to this is > that > > it > > > is not a movement of energy at all but of 'attention'. > > > I was thrown off one list on K for propounding this heresy and an > > > even greater heresy that K was actually the moving of prana. > > > > > > As Ramana says the consciousness rises by itself with enquiry, > > > without the concepts...........ONS....Tony. > > > > dear tony, > > i would not dare propose here a continuum fromm pure matter/avidya > to > > pure consciousness/self along which our spiritual path would be > > moving but.... > > from the point of view that a realized person never denied that > there > > was a time before, and if i consider myself to be in the time > before, > > with some interesting caracteristics of the time after... > > then in all this space before where language exists with > > differenciation and diversity, you cannot bring everybody's > questions > > and experiences to an hypothetical non-dual experience and the > > eternal self that reabsorbs all things... > > unless you are the self unhindered and free (?) > > you ... tony... > > for the rest of us, mystical constructions in time and space, > > cosmology and representations of the world, supported by first > > hand 'experience' or not, will be the daily bread and milk of those > > who seek earnestly (don't take it away from us unless you provide a > > valuable darshan)(smile!) > > in happiness > > eric > > Namaste E, > > Yes that's a point the world is full of points and pointy heads... it's alright tony, i understand, some other day if you wish we'll investigate some other topic of your choice. in peace eric Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 31, 2003 Report Share Posted May 31, 2003 , "eric paroissien" <peaceisit@a...> wrote: > , "saktidasa" <saktidasa> > wrote: > > Yes that's a point the world is full of points and pointy > heads...> > it's alright tony, i understand, some other day if you wish we'll > investigate some other topic of your choice. > in peace > eric Tony is right and Eric is wrong. No, wait a minute. Eric is right and Tony is wrong. No, wait a minute. There are gross, psychic, subtle, and causal bodies, and K shows up differently in each. So everyone is right! hallelujah, dave. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 31, 2003 Report Share Posted May 31, 2003 whatever turns u 'on'as to why u are here the wise ones, the truly enlightened do not point us to pointy heads but point like an arrow pointing right at your own heart! the question is what wakes you up? point not taken km Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 31, 2003 Report Share Posted May 31, 2003 , "kalyaanmitra" <kalyaanmitra> wrote: > whatever turns u 'on'as to why u are here > > > the wise ones, the truly enlightened do not point us to pointy heads > but point > like an > arrow > pointing right > at your own heart! > > the question is > what wakes you up? Right! dave. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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