Guest guest Posted June 6, 2003 Report Share Posted June 6, 2003 Namaste, The preponderance of sites promoting what they think is Kundalini, is mostly sleeve wearing and trendies. Vicarious attainers etc backing them up. You know. 'I have had the experience therefore I own it and you haven't sort of stuff'. To me Kundalini-Sakti is the mind itself the Mahat and more. If K existed in the way people talk then all the Buddhist Vipassana meditators would be talking about it in some glowing terms. They don't. I used to subsribe to theory that K arose in the muladhara and went up through the cakras. Now I don't. My first experience of this was in early meditation when I was thrown off my cross legged position, by surging energy. I now get this coming in meditation from nowhere or no cakra in particular, I do my best to ignore and not get attached to the blissful result. The K is probably the movement of pranas, cleansing the mind of impurities. Dirtier the mind more the cleaning, nothing to crow about. Ramana, Lakshamana Swami etc all say it is not what most think it is. It will rise by itself. Sri Sarada Devi, Ramakrishna Paramahamsa's consort said it will rise with Japa. So really what it truly is IMO is the rising of consciousness through the purifying mind to through the kosas. A Lady never crows about the energy needed to clean her dirty floors, for after all they should be kept clean.........It is all illusion anyway........ONS....Tony. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 7, 2003 Report Share Posted June 7, 2003 , "saktidasa" <saktidasa> wrote: > Namaste, > > The preponderance of sites promoting what they think is Kundalini, is > mostly sleeve wearing and trendies. Vicarious attainers etc backing > them up. > > You know. 'I have had the experience therefore I own it and you > haven't sort of stuff'. > > To me Kundalini-Sakti is the mind itself the Mahat and more. If K > existed in the way people talk then all the Buddhist Vipassana > meditators would be talking about it in some glowing terms. They > don't. > > I used to subsribe to theory that K arose in the muladhara and went > up through the cakras. Now I don't. My first experience of this was > in early meditation when I was thrown off my cross legged position, > by surging energy. > > I now get this coming in meditation from nowhere or no cakra in > particular, I do my best to ignore and not get attached to the > blissful result. > > The K is probably the movement of pranas, cleansing the mind of > impurities. Dirtier the mind more the cleaning, nothing to crow about. > > Ramana, Lakshamana Swami etc all say it is not what most think it is. > It will rise by itself. Sri Sarada Devi, Ramakrishna Paramahamsa's > consort said it will rise with Japa. > > So really what it truly is IMO is the rising of consciousness through > the purifying mind to through the kosas. > > A Lady never crows about the energy needed to clean her dirty floors, > for after all they should be kept clean.........It is all illusion > anyway........ONS....Tony. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 7, 2003 Report Share Posted June 7, 2003 > > A Lady never crows about the energy needed to clean her dirty > floors, km: thank you for that message. It is one that makes comlpete sense in the context of what the truly 'Realised' have to say....focussing on kundalini arousal is in the same league as focussing on siddhis....they are just side-effects. What you say ties in with Desikachar's take on k. the real alchemy is dis-covering the Divine in all levels of consciousness, and that is patient and loving practice of one's chosen path om tat sat km Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 7, 2003 Report Share Posted June 7, 2003 "kalyaanmitra" wrote: > > > > A Lady never crows about the energy needed to clean her dirty > > floors, > > > > km: thank you for that message. It is one that makes comlpete sense > in the context of what the truly 'Realised' have to say....focussing > on kundalini arousal is in the same league as focussing on > siddhis....they are just side-effects. What you say ties in with > Desikachar's take on k. > the real alchemy is dis-covering the Divine in all levels of > consciousness, and that is patient and loving practice of one's > chosen path > > om tat sat > km i can only agree with you mitra, yet there is a little misunderstanding: tell tony about your working with vibrations and levels, and he will dispose of them in the same way, thus he confuses the end with the means; the end is total freedom, the means have a shape in space, they are graspable to the extend that they don't create attachment; when we use a representation of ourself in space because we have noticed how good it is to strengthen faith with here and there little rewards and satisfaction i don't think there is anything wrong; but what tony says is like: imagine every time some one comes to ramana with a belief and a question to know how to orientate herself in this reference frame and he would systematically bash it with: "get rid of that bs!" in peace eric Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 7, 2003 Report Share Posted June 7, 2003 , "eric paroissien" <peaceisit@a...> wrote: > "kalyaanmitra" wrote: > > > > > > A Lady never crows about the energy needed to clean her dirty > > > floors, > > > > > > > > km: thank you for that message. It is one that makes comlpete sense > > in the context of what the truly 'Realised' have to > say....focussing > > on kundalini arousal is in the same league as focussing on > > siddhis....they are just side-effects. What you say ties in with > > Desikachar's take on k. > > the real alchemy is dis-covering the Divine in all levels of > > consciousness, and that is patient and loving practice of one's > > chosen path > > > > om tat sat > > km > > i can only agree with you mitra, > yet there is a little misunderstanding: > tell tony about your working with vibrations and levels, > and he will dispose of them in the same way, > thus he confuses the end with the means; > the end is total freedom, the means have a shape in space, they are > graspable to the extend that they don't create attachment; > when we use a representation of ourself in space because we have > noticed how good it is to strengthen faith with here and there little > rewards and satisfaction i don't think there is anything wrong; > but what tony says is like: > imagine every time some one comes to ramana with a belief and a > question to know how to orientate herself in this reference frame and > he would systematically bash it with: > "get rid of that bs!" > > in peace > eric Namaste, You misunderstand me, good job you are not my wife!hahaha Ramana dismisses most nonsense by not answering the questions, hard to do here on a discussion group. Let Mitra try me out and we'll see, I did publish a piece on the process of manifestation actually, which is about vibrations.........ONS.....Tony. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 7, 2003 Report Share Posted June 7, 2003 , "eric paroissien" <peaceisit@a...> wrote: > "kalyaanmitra" wrote: > > > > > > A Lady never crows about the energy needed to clean her dirty > > > floors, > > > > > > > > km: thank you for that message. It is one that makes comlpete sense > > in the context of what the truly 'Realised' have to > say....focussing > > on kundalini arousal is in the same league as focussing on > > siddhis....they are just side-effects. What you say ties in with > > Desikachar's take on k. > > the real alchemy is dis-covering the Divine in all levels of > > consciousness, and that is patient and loving practice of one's > > chosen path > > > > om tat sat > > km > > i can only agree with you mitra, > yet there is a little misunderstanding: > tell tony about your working with vibrations and levels, > and he will dispose of them in the same way, > thus he confuses the end with the means; > the end is total freedom, the means have a shape in space, they are > graspable to the extend that they don't create attachment; > when we use a representation of ourself in space because we have > noticed how good it is to strengthen faith with here and there little > rewards and satisfaction i don't think there is anything wrong; > but what tony says is like: > imagine every time some one comes to ramana with a belief and a > question to know how to orientate herself in this reference frame and > he would systematically bash it with: > "get rid of that bs!" > > in peace > eric Namaste, I did post under aoclery but I think he is monitored hahahah, Ramana ignored people when they asked a question not appropos. Mitra can try me if she likes, I did publish a piece in a book on the manifestation of consciousness. It is the attitude I'm discussing I suppose....ONS...Tony. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 7, 2003 Report Share Posted June 7, 2003 "saktidasa" wrote: "Ramana ignored people when they asked a question not appropos." sorry, i have to disagree, tony; of all the reasons that could provoke sri ramana's silence, what made you think that he ever ignored people? that's an odd one! ignoring is in my obscured nature (avidya) and yours tony, deciding that one is not worthy of my answer, or that i have enough of him, or that such topic is beneath me, is for us kids in the playground; furthermore i remind you that whenever you think him predictable on an issue (as if he wanted to ignore the k issue), and this is what you imply here, you trap him in the smallness of our ways of repetitive communication; in peace eric Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 7, 2003 Report Share Posted June 7, 2003 i see your point, eric, and agree i dont mind at all that 'vibrations. levels, whatever' as Sri Aurobindo describes them are dismissed. Quite necessary as a number of 'SA' sadhaks 'grasp' at that which they have not 'real -ised' all i am trying to say is that 'experiences' are not dismissed by those i regard as 'realised' [eg. Ramana Maharishi], it is just that they are little 'bonuses'? and there is constant warning in all spiritual traditions not to get side-tracked into a 'circus' i am afraid there are a number of charlatans around, at best harmless, on the other hand there are those de-stabilised because of their constitution or demonic impatience in calling forces down they cannot handle.... it is not also appropriate to share with all and sundry ones spiritaul experiences, it must be with a trusted guide/guru who has the authority to comment i do apologise if i sounded dismissive, it is not my place to do so, i voiced my understanding not once have i heard either the Buddha or SA or Ramana or Christ or other figure say 'I am awakened because of kundalini or other psychic phenomenom... no, it was because they went that extra 'human' mile, warts and all! km Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 7, 2003 Report Share Posted June 7, 2003 mitra said: > not once have i heard either the Buddha or SA or Ramana or Christ or > other figure say 'I am awakened because of kundalini or other psychic > phenomenom... no, it was because they went that extra 'human' mile, > warts and all! > > km a good point mitra; the question remains for me, where do we find faith? how does the faith genrator work ...... tony i'd like to know if you need faith, if you have faith? if not what keeps you going on the path? analysing the probabilities? if yes, what is your source of faith? if you are not in constant close contact with the "guru", where do you summon up the source? in peace eric Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 8, 2003 Report Share Posted June 8, 2003 a good point mitra; > the question remains for me, where do we find faith? > how does the faith genrator work >it seems to me, perhaps, that there is an evolution....not all feel 'the call'for want of a better word...faith generator: can be different for different people: for some an instant life-changing moment, for others disatisfaction with 'dukha', for others a burning curiosity and love for the mystery of life....and something [an experience/s perhaps? engenders 'faith']...so many faith- generators....it must be built -in, and 'asleep' most of the time [ in our cells? biology? but always a mix of nature/nurture] ....so it is a very interesting play of energy [my 'faith' is that the Divine sat-chit-ananda manifests itself in so many ways to our human'consciousness' planes, chakras etc... ways of 'mapping the spiritual 'manifested' landscape [ maya/lila etc]...but beyond there is Something that is Undefinable... it is all a bit like shifting perscpectives from the teeming plains to montain heights .... and perhaps for some the quest is to get away from the plains as soon as possible and for others, the journeys are the joy? peace and love km > > tony i'd like to know if you need faith, if you have faith? > > if not what keeps you going on the path? analysing the probabilities? > > if yes, what is your source of faith? > if you are not in constant close contact with the "guru", where do > you summon up the source? > in peace > eric Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 8, 2003 Report Share Posted June 8, 2003 mitra said: > it is all a bit like shifting perscpectives from the teeming plains > to montain heights .... and perhaps for some the quest is to get away > from the plains as soon as possible and for others, the journeys are > the joy? joy of course; faith refers to the sustained effort and "gooood" processing, positive processing, in this instant within the Self; a peak experience is soon forgotten unless some big chunk of avidya fell in the process; so how is faith sustained moment by moment; to avoid lyrical soaring to the skyies and angels and a fall the next moment eric Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 8, 2003 Report Share Posted June 8, 2003 > faith refers to the sustained effort and "gooood" processing, > positive processing, in this instant within the Self;a peak experience is soon forgotten unless some big chunk of avidya > fell in the process; so how is faith sustained moment by moment; > to avoid lyrical soaring to the skyies and angels and a fall the next moment eric bhagavad gita: faith according to individual [guna descriptors], as one belives, so one arrives at the Divine For me, the faith is that the 'Divine Rascal' is a great big tease, My faith is that i dont need 'faith' as much as 'delicious surrender'to the 'Divine' [so even if i have 'lapsed', i hear the laughter of 'Krishna' in the universe] . As for 'peak experiences, great if they come, even better the 'peek-a-boo'. In a sense, i do feel i have to 'sustain'anything, i am grateful just to be alive and experience duality/mystery/life/the feeling of Something, even when day is night and the universe implodes.... Sorry,sir, perhaps i havent answered? if 'shraddha' refers to positive processing, perhaps that is what i am doing [also having faith that i dont know, but am happy with that beautiful uncertainity?] km Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 8, 2003 Report Share Posted June 8, 2003 , "kalyaanmitra" <kalyaanmitra> wrote: > > > faith refers to the sustained effort and "gooood" processing, > > positive processing, in this instant within the Self;a peak > experience is soon forgotten unless some big chunk of avidya > > fell in the process; so how is faith sustained moment by moment; > > to avoid lyrical soaring to the skyies and angels and a fall the > next moment eric > > > > bhagavad gita: faith according to individual [guna descriptors], as > one belives, so one arrives at the Divine > > > For me, the faith is that the 'Divine Rascal' is a great big tease, > My faith is that i dont need 'faith' as much as 'delicious > surrender'to the 'Divine' [so even if i have 'lapsed', i hear the > laughter of 'Krishna' in the universe] . As for 'peak experiences, > great if they come, even better the 'peek-a-boo'. > In a sense, i do feel i have to 'sustain'anything, i am grateful just did you mean "in a sense i don't feel i have to sustain anything..."? > to be alive and experience duality/mystery/life/the feeling of > Something, even when day is night and the universe implodes.... nice place to be too! (laugh!) eric Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 8, 2003 Report Share Posted June 8, 2003 > > bhagavad gita: faith according to individual [guna descriptors], as one belives, so one arrives at the Divine > did you mean "in a sense i don't feel i have to sustain anything..."? no ididnt mean that [ back to the Gita: faith can be rajasic, tamasic and sattwic], no i meant that tapas is needed with shraddha, but not like a child saying, ok God i have done 1000 spiritual press-ups with faith, wears my enlightenment? That would be the way of Ravana and possibly Viswamitra > > > to be alive and experience duality/mystery/life/the feeling of > > Something, even when day is night and the universe implodes.... > > nice place to be too!(laugh!) > eric actually if gets scary i pull metaphorical duvet over my head [arjuna drops to his knees before vishwa rupa] om km Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 8, 2003 Report Share Posted June 8, 2003 , "kalyaanmitra" <kalyaanmitra> wrote: > > > > bhagavad gita: faith according to individual [guna descriptors], > as one belives, so one arrives at the Divine > > > > > did you mean "in a sense i don't feel i have to sustain > anything..."? > > no ididnt mean that [ back to the Gita: faith can be rajasic, tamasic > and sattwic], no i meant that tapas is needed with shraddha, but not > like a child saying, ok God i have done 1000 spiritual press-ups with > faith, wears my enlightenment? That would be the way of Ravana and > possibly Viswamitra > > > > > to be alive and experience duality/mystery/life/the feeling of > > > Something, even when day is night and the universe implodes.... > > > > nice place to be too!(laugh!) > > eric > > actually if gets scary i pull metaphorical duvet over my head [arjuna > drops to his knees before vishwa rupa] > > om > km and if you discard the duvet and look all of us drop to your knees Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 8, 2003 Report Share Posted June 8, 2003 and if you discard the duvet and look ,all of us drop to your knees now, thats what one may call overcoming 'knescience' no knees is good knees abhyasa!abhyasa!abhyasa! km Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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