Spirituality involves speculation, philosophy does not. - for Joyce

[Guest guest]

Hi,

I was actually not addressing you in particular, rather I was making

remarks in general.

 

Anne Cushman, a Buddhist, wrote the following which I resonate to

very much:

 

The world is impermanent, but the world is also a sacred blessing!

 

It is that sense of the "sacred" which invokes in me a sense of

wonder, of awe, and of reverence. I don't have a name for it, in

India the name for that sense of the sacred is Brahman, in China the

name is Tao and T'ien (Heaven), in Native American culture the name

often used (with which I also resonate) is in English "The Great

Mystery" (in Seneca, the word is "Swenio"), and in some it is

called "The Big Holy".

 

In this transient realm, that sense of the sacred calls to us to move

out of the illusion of our

judgements and

labels which limit our thinking to the denotation of the words

instead of the individual and direct experience here and now. (For

example, when I label a tree an "Oak tree", then the meaning of the

words "oak tree" colors and even filters out the uniqueness of the

tree at which I am looking -- and the terms make me separate from the

tree, subject vs object).

 

The illusion is that we are separate, and we are not. The Buddhist

term is "interdependent" to underscore that we are all in this

together, from the ground on which we stand to the fartherest star.

 

Blessings,

John L.

 

, "jjsassoc" <ladyjoy@v...>

wrote:

> Re: Spirituality involves speculation,

philosophy

> does not.

>

> John L wrote...

> > Hi,

> > I don't agree with the "Subject line" of this thread, but I do

> > identify with the thoughts being expressed here.

> >

> > I find it very interesting that there is such a drive to "worship"

> > something; and then, identifying with the thing worshipped, one

comes

> > to feel superior to others who are so lacking as to not worship

> > the "something".

>

> Hi John...

>

> In my experience, I don't feel as if I drove anywhere to worship

> "something." I feel more as if I was driven to the "something". I

*felt*

> something, something I cannot deny. And I fully accept that I will

move on

> as time goes by. I have already gone through many changes.

> There has been one coincidence after another which will crop up

> and somehow I will find myself in another, different place

> than I was the week or the month before. While it is exciting, I

will admit

> that sometimes it is also traumatic, so much has happened so fast.

>

> Even though intellectualy I know it is all an *illusion* and I am

even

> willing to accept that premise (being that I am outnumbered) , it

sure felt

> real to me :-) And I do not feel superior to others who do not

worship the

> "something." As a matter of fact, there are times when I feel

somewhat self

> conscious of my devotion, especially when I read about how it

is "better" to

> be something other than what I am. That there is no form, and that

when you

> worship form, you are somehow inferior to those who do not worship

form,

> etcetera, etcetera...I am where I am on my path; so Be It.

>

> Even that has changed in a subtle fashion for me too. I am kind of

betwixt

> and between right now. But the feelings and the memories are still

there

> and I do not want to lose them, for it is what keeps me grounded

> and um, sane.

>

> > I find it very interesting to find in myself this very desire,

and to

> > search for others with whom to share my "path".

>

> The Infinite seeking Itself?

> Infinity seeking infinity?

> For me, the comfort of affinity.

> All in the Oneness of Divinity.

>

> Love,

>

> Joyce

>

>

> > , "Benjamin Root"

> > <orion777ben> wrote:

> > > Namaste Tony,

> > >

> > > I see you are over here too. In fact, I have noticed

> > > something interesting now that I've searched other

> > > Advaitin related lists. The same one or two dozen

> > > usual suspects contribute regularly to these various

> > > lists. I can't understand why there are not more,

> > > out of a pool of over 6 billion people.

> > >

> > > Anyhow, I agree with what you said. Most people

> > > need something 'objective' (i.e. conceptual) to believe

> > > in, or they get confused. This means dogmas and

> > > deities in one form or another. And you have to

> > > admit that the negative formless approach is indeed

> > > abstract and difficult. My feeble understanding of it

> > > has to do with a 'vast cosmic feeling', as I said earlier.

> > > This is also Consciousness whch is Everything.

> > > Please feel free to criticize my quaint idea. It works

> > > for me! (As an idea, not yet a realization)

> > >

> > > Om!

> > > Benjamin

> > >

> > >

> > > , "Tony O'Clery"

> > <aoclery> wrote:

> > > > > Would anyone like to offer an opinion on why the teachings

of

> > the

> > > > > Buddha, which are totally Advaitic, ended up with a huge

Bhakti

> > > > > religion. Excepting some areas like Sri Lanka and Burma.

> >

> >

> >

> > /join

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > The Heart is the Self. The Self is the Heart.

> >

> > Your use of is subject to

> >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Hi John

> It is that sense of the "sacred" which invokes in me a sense of

> wonder, of awe, and of reverence. I don't have a name for it, in

> India the name for that sense of the sacred is Brahman, in China the

> name is Tao and T'ien (Heaven), in Native American culture the name

> often used (with which I also resonate) is in English "The Great

> Mystery" (in Seneca, the word is "Swenio"), and in some it is

> called "The Big Holy".

 

It is this sense of mystery which science cannot account for.

I consider mysefl a hardheaded 'scientific' person, but

unlike many scientists, I am not agnostic or atheistic.

That is because I realize that science can only *describe*

how things are. It cannot really explain *why* anything

exists at all. This is a profound mystery which cries out

for an explanation that can only be answered with something

along the lines of Brahman, Ishwara or God, depending on

your level of intellectual refinement.

 

Benjamin