Guest guest Posted November 2, 2003 Report Share Posted November 2, 2003 There is a thing called Grace. I don't know which scriptures mention it but Sri Ramana often spoke of it. Grace of the Guru is beyond words. It can start with words. Words of the Guru are like scriptures for one who has faith. Instructions of the Guru are a form of Grace. Somehow the words of the Guru themselves spontaneously turn into Grace at the right moment when the mind of the aspirant is ripe. Meditation on the words that indicate the Reality of the Self allows the mind to gradually purify and mature. Faith and surrender plays a key role on the spiritual path. Sri Ramana may tell a devotee......"You are the Self, nothing but the Self. You are already That. Pure Existence, Awareness, Being, Bliss. Let the mind that perceives diversity merge in the Heart." If the faith of the devotee is absolute, the words of the Guru are accepted absolutely creating a firm conviction and there is the receptivity for Grace to manifest and thus out of nowhere the Eternal Self- Recognition appears to assert itself -- the nature of which is Self-Knowledge. Love to all Harsha -- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 2, 2003 Report Share Posted November 2, 2003 , Harsha wrote: > There is a thing called Grace. I don't know which scriptures mention > it but Sri Ramana often spoke of it. > > Grace of the Guru is beyond words. It can start with words. Words of the > Guru are like scriptures for one who has faith. Instructions of the > Guru are a form of Grace. Namaste Harsha, Yes I have puzzled over Grace, as I believe the universe kind of runs itself without interference. So my take on Grace is that a Jivanmukta can interfere in some way. And that way I believe, is the allocation of karma and bleed throughs from other lives we have. In other word our own Higher Self allocates karma to us as Grace from time to time. This karma can be out of time out of life so to speak....ONS...Tony. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 2, 2003 Report Share Posted November 2, 2003 , "Tony OClery" <aoclery> wrote: > , Harsha wrote: > > There is a thing called Grace. I don't know which scriptures > mention > > it but Sri Ramana often spoke of it. > > > > Grace of the Guru is beyond words. It can start with words. Words > of the > > Guru are like scriptures for one who has faith. Instructions of > the > > Guru are a form of Grace. > > Namaste Harsha, > > Yes I have puzzled over Grace, as I believe the universe kind of > runs itself without interference. So my take on Grace is that a > Jivanmukta can interfere in some way. And that way I believe, is the > allocation of karma and bleed throughs from other lives we have. In > other word our own Higher Self allocates karma to us as Grace from > time to time. This karma can be out of time out of life so to > speak....ONS...Tony. viorica w <viorica@z...> Sun Nov 2, 2003 6:12 pm Maharshi's Gospel - <46> D. What is Guru-krpa [Guru's grace ]? Maharshi - Guru is the Self.... Sometimes a man becomes dissatisfied with his life, and, not content with what he has, he seeks the satisfaction of his desires, through prayer to God, etc. His mind is gradually purified until he longs to know God, more to obtain His grace than to satisfy his worldly desires. Then, God's grace begins to manifest. God takes the form of a Guru and appears to the devotee, teaches him the Truth, and, moreover, purifies his mind by association. The devotee's mind gets strength and is then able to turn inward. By meditation it is further purified and it remains still without the least ripple. That calm expanse is the Self. The Guru is both "external" and "internal." From the "exterior" he gives a push to the mind to turn inward; from the "interior" he pulls the mind toward the Self and helps in the quietening of the mind. That is Guru-krpa. There is no difference between God, Guru and the Self. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 2, 2003 Report Share Posted November 2, 2003 , "Tony OClery" <aoclery> wrote: > , Harsha wrote: > > There is a thing called Grace. I don't know which scriptures > mention > > it but Sri Ramana often spoke of it. > > > > Grace of the Guru is beyond words. It can start with words. Words > of the > > Guru are like scriptures for one who has faith. Instructions of > the > > Guru are a form of Grace. > > Namaste Harsha, > > Yes I have puzzled over Grace, as I believe the universe kind of > runs itself without interference. So my take on Grace is that a > Jivanmukta can interfere in some way. And that way I believe, is the > allocation of karma and bleed throughs from other lives we have. In > other word our own Higher Self allocates karma to us as Grace from > time to time. This karma can be out of time out of life so to > speak....ONS...Tony. Hi Tony, As everything is connected and indeed One. Is it any wonder there is grace? Also why is it "interference" instead of just more karma? "The universe runs itself," means what? That it is mechanical and without consciousness? No,...you could not think so. Tell me it ain't so! )) All is Shiva, Shawn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 3, 2003 Report Share Posted November 3, 2003 Thanks Tony and Shawn. All is grace only. Why did Buddha feel compassion for all beings. When Mahavir was bit by a snake, instead of blood, milk came out. According to legend, Mahavir had the tender love of the mother towards all beings. So only milk came out. All is grace. Love is Grace. God is in the inner chamber of the Heart. In the Heart, we become one with God. God Is Love. Love is the actual form of God. Love, Harsha > > "Love itself is the actual form of God." > > Sri Ramana > > In "Letters from Sri Ramanasramam" by Suri Nagamma -- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 3, 2003 Report Share Posted November 3, 2003 , "Shawn Hair" <> > speak....ONS...Tony. > > > Hi Tony, > > As everything is connected and indeed One. Is it any wonder > there is grace? Also why is it "interference" instead of just more > karma? > > "The universe runs itself," means what? That it is mechanical > and without consciousness? No,...you could not think so. Tell > me it ain't so! )) > > All is Shiva, > Shawn Namaste Shawn et al, I was watching a show on tv yesterday, where thousands of flamingo chicks walk across 100 miles of salt pans in the kalahari desert to water, many dying in the way. Some years all of them die. So if there is a God organising that then he/she is a little clumsy!! Yes there is a consciousness behind all but it is providing the fuel for the engine only. It is Sakti/Saguna Brahman. Yes interference from a jivanmukta or whatever is also an allocation of karma by our own Higher Self. The entire universe just runs on karma, action/reaction that is all. There is only prana and karma in 'creation'. The energy at the ground is the love energy of course, and can be felt, but that doesn't mean it is doing anything but being. In the end it is all a barren mother's son, as it says in the Upanishads.................ONS....Tony. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 3, 2003 Report Share Posted November 3, 2003 Tony wrote...In the end it is all a barren mother's son, as it says in the Upanishads.................ONS....Tony. Hmmmm....well, this barren mother has two sons. Their names are Jason, turning 7 illusory years this week and Jesse, 4 in a few weeks. OM Namah Shivaya Love, Joyce /join "Love itself is the actual form of God."Sri RamanaIn "Letters from Sri Ramanasramam" by Suri Nagamma Your use of is subject to the Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 3, 2003 Report Share Posted November 3, 2003 , "Lady Joyce" <shaantih@c...> wrote: > > Tony wrote...In the end it is all a barren mother's son, as it says in the > Upanishads.................ONS....Tony. > > Hmmmm....well, this barren mother has two sons. Their names are Jason, turning 7 illusory years this week and Jesse, 4 in a few weeks. OM Namah Shivaya > > Love, > > Joyce Namaste Joyce, Then if you have two sons, you don't qualify do you? The whole point of the Upanishadic statement is that this so called creation cannot have happened. One eventually has to give up attachment to the concept of God and Devas and realise we are the Self indeed. Devotion is only a tool to help in concentration, it isn't the utmost truth...........ONS...Tony. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 3, 2003 Report Share Posted November 3, 2003 Tony OClery wrote: > Namaste Joyce, > > Then if you have two sons, you don't qualify do you? The whole point > of the Upanishadic statement is that this so called creation cannot > have happened. One eventually has to give up attachment to the > concept of God and Devas and realise we are the Self indeed. > Devotion is only a tool to help in concentration, it isn't the > utmost truth...........ONS...Tony. Namaste, Sri Tonyji: What does the statement that "this creation never happened" mean? What is the status of a statement "this creation never happened" in the the "creation that never happened"? Please elaborate, Thank you Love, Harsha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 3, 2003 Report Share Posted November 3, 2003 , Harsha wrote: > Tony OClery wrote: > > > Namaste Joyce, > > > > Then if you have two sons, you don't qualify do you? The whole point > > of the Upanishadic statement is that this so called creation cannot > > have happened. One eventually has to give up attachment to the > > concept of God and Devas and realise we are the Self indeed. > > Devotion is only a tool to help in concentration, it isn't the > > utmost truth...........ONS...Tony. > > Namaste, Sri Tonyji: > > What does the statement that "this creation never happened" mean? > > What is the status of a statement "this creation never happened" in the > the "creation that never happened"? > > Please elaborate, > > Thank you > > Love, > Harsha Namaste Harsha, Ramana says in his three theories of creation that it ultimately didn't happen, #3. How could it? If consciousness is universal what looks at what. Opposites and jivas are necessary for the manifestation of the disturbed gunas known as creation. Religion and devotion are tools for concentration really, for they are external and the Self is internal. So it is only valid whilst one is not a jivanmukta, not after. This is how I read the Upanishadic statement 'A barren woman's son'.....ONS....Tony. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 3, 2003 Report Share Posted November 3, 2003 I know what Sri Ramana says. What do you say Tony? Is Sri Ramana part of the non-existent creation or not? Love, Harsha > "Tony OClery" <aoclery > 2003/11/03 Mon PM 08:50:47 EST > > Re: Grace > Namaste Harsha, Ramana says in his three theories of creation that it ultimately didn't happen, #3. How could it? If consciousness is universal what looks at what. Opposites and jivas are necessary for the manifestation of the disturbed gunas known as creation. Religion and devotion are tools for concentration really, for they are external and the Self is internal. So it is only valid whilst one is not a jivanmukta, not after. This is how I read the Upanishadic statement 'A barren woman's son'.....ONS....Tony. > "Love itself is the actual form of God." Ramana Maharshi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 4, 2003 Report Share Posted November 4, 2003 , wrote: > I know what Sri Ramana says. What do you say Tony? > > Is Sri Ramana part of the non-existent creation or not? > > Love, > Harsha Namaste Harsha et al, There is no Ramana really for that is the name of the body only. He has no individuality. He is awake in the dream. Once his body dropped there was no connection at all and it didn't ever happen. It seems that it is two stages, union with Sakti( big I) and then at the same time realising Nirguna. Sakti being the 'Son' and as Jesus said speaking as the Sakti, 'The way to the father is through me'.....ONS...Tony. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 4, 2003 Report Share Posted November 4, 2003 Thank you Tony. It is comforting to know that you have it all figured out! :-). Love, Harsha > > Namaste Harsha et al, > > There is no Ramana really for that is the name of the body only. He > has no individuality. He is awake in the dream. Once his body > dropped there was no connection at all and it didn't ever happen. It > seems that it is two stages, union with Sakti( big I) and then at > the same time realising Nirguna. Sakti being the 'Son' and as Jesus > said speaking as the Sakti, 'The way to the father is through > me'.....ONS...Tony. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 4, 2003 Report Share Posted November 4, 2003 Dear Friends --- harsha wrote: > I know what Sri Ramana says. What do you say Tony? michael remarks: Yes!!! What do you say? I do not accept a spiritual premise simply because someone quotes a Sage. ONE may find whatever ONE wants in the scriptures and in the sayings of the Sages. ONE may make nearly any argument that ONE wants to make by quoting scripture and gita and sruti and vedas and upanishads and koran and guru granth sahib and torah and puranas, etc. But I want to know what is YOUR statement--YOUR statement for YOU yourSELF? All of us have the "wholly writings" from everywhere around the earth. But what I don't have, and what I would like to know is" What do you say? And if you insist upon deferring to scripture or the "said Sage sayings", then please realize that YOU are still your own authority because YOU have given yourSELF permission to accept these writings and "sayings" as an authority over yourSELF. Fine!!!! There you are! You are bound and limited by that! Ramana spoke wonderful words of grace; but we all know what Ramana said--what do you say? I've asked you what you say--Now here's what I say: (You may quote me.) michael says: I don't know what's goin' on. (Trust me on that!) I don't care what's "a goin'" or "a not goin'" on. (Believe me.) Here's why I don't care: Cause when there's "no one - know 1", there's NO ONE - KNOW 1 to care. CONTINUED Harsha asked: > Is Sri Ramana part of the non-existent creation or > not? michael comments: That's a good question!!!!!!1 michael asks: Tony, why do you "think" that IT IS a creation? Why does IT have to be a "creation"? Why does "WHAT IS" have to be a "CREATION", or an "ILLUSION", or a "DREAM". Why should the fact of existence be a problem? Existence (SAT) is SELF. Consciousness (CHIT) is SELF. And Bliss pure bliss (ANANDA) is SELF. There is only one'SELF. Why should ONE have a problem with ONE'SELF? There's nothing but SELF. Who's to have a problem with what? So I don't think that there's a problem unless someone says that they have one. In that case, sadhana is the cure. Love, michael Protect your identity with Mail AddressGuard http://antispam./whatsnewfree Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 5, 2003 Report Share Posted November 5, 2003 , Harsha wrote: > Thank you Tony. It is comforting to know that you have it all figured > out! :-). > > Love, > Harsha Namaste, Figured out yes but realised no!!!!!!!!!!I am still on the bank of the river looking over to the other side, with the brambles of samskaras and karma impeding me.........ONS...Tony. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 5, 2003 Report Share Posted November 5, 2003 , Michael > > not? > > michael comments: That's a good question!!!!!!1 > > michael asks: Tony, why do you "think" that IT IS a > creation? Why does IT have to be a "creation"? Why > does "WHAT IS" have to be a "CREATION", or an > "ILLUSION", or a "DREAM". Why should the fact of > existence be a problem? > > Existence (SAT) is SELF. Consciousness (CHIT) is > SELF. And Bliss pure bliss (ANANDA) is SELF. There > is only one'SELF. Why should ONE have a problem with > ONE'SELF? There's nothing but SELF. Who's to have a > problem with what? So I don't think that there's a > problem unless someone says that they have one. In > that case, sadhana is the cure. Namaste, Unfortunately you are stopping at the Sakti or Saguna Brahman, both illusions.........there is only Nirguna........ONS...Tony. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 5, 2003 Report Share Posted November 5, 2003 michael said, Existence (SAT) is SELF. Consciousness (CHIT) is SELF. And Bliss pure bliss (ANANDA) is SELF. There is only one'SELF. I wonder if there is only one's Self or there is ONLY Self. michael himself goes on to say 'There's nothing but SELF'. michael said, Who's to have a problem with what? So I don't think that there's a problem unless someone says that they have one. In that case, sadhana is the cure. The problem is this: It is said that there is only Self. But, in life (where this discussion is taking place), there is a nagging feeling of incompleteness, resulting in anxiety, fear, sadness, you name it.. It is not an easy sadhana to find the source of this nagging feeling - a ghost called ego. That is the problem. Without the ego, there would be robot like action. Anyone knows a simplified, well (but briefly) explained sadhana? sundar > > michael remarks: > Yes!!! What do you say? I do not accept a spiritual > premise simply because someone quotes a Sage. ONE may > find whatever ONE wants in the scriptures and in the > sayings of the Sages. ONE may make nearly any > argument that ONE wants to make by quoting scripture > and gita and sruti and vedas and upanishads and koran > and guru granth sahib and torah and puranas, etc. > > But I want to know what is YOUR statement--YOUR > statement for YOU yourSELF? > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 5, 2003 Report Share Posted November 5, 2003 , "Tony OClery" <aoclery> wrote: > , Harsha wrote: > > Thank you Tony. It is comforting to know that you have it all > figured > > out! :-). > > > > Love, > > Harsha > > Namaste, > > Figured out yes but realised no!!!!!!!!!!I am still on the bank of > the river looking over to the other side, with the brambles of > samskaras and karma impeding me.........ONS...Tony. Namaste Harsha et al, Let me add that I am still in a state of avidya rather than vidya or prajna hahahh.............ONS..Tony. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 5, 2003 Report Share Posted November 5, 2003 > "Tony OClery" <aoclery > 2003/11/05 Wed PM 05:35:50 EST > > Re: Grace , "Tony OClery" <aoclery> wrote: > , Harsha wrote: > > Thank you Tony. It is comforting to know that you have it all > figured > > out! :-). > > > > Love, > > Harsha > > Namaste, > > Figured out yes but realised no!!!!!!!!!!I am still on the bank of > the river looking over to the other side, with the brambles of > samskaras and karma impeding me.........ONS...Tony. Namaste Harsha et al, Let me add that I am still in a state of avidya rather than vidya or prajna hahahh.............ONS..Tony. **************** Modesty becomes you Guruji! :-). Love, Harsha "Love itself is the actual form of God." Ramana Maharshi , "Tony OClery" <aoclery> wrote: > , Harsha wrote: > > Thank you Tony. It is comforting to know that you have it all > figured > > out! :-). > > > > Love, > > Harsha > > Namaste, > > Figured out yes but realised no!!!!!!!!!!I am still on the bank of > the river looking over to the other side, with the brambles of > samskaras and karma impeding me.........ONS...Tony. Namaste Harsha et al, Let me add that I am still in a state of avidya rather than vidya or prajna hahahh.............ONS..Tony. /join "Love itself is the actual form of God." Sri Ramana In "Letters from Sri Ramanasramam" by Suri Nagamma Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 5, 2003 Report Share Posted November 5, 2003 when you think you "reached" the other side from there you are looking out there is still "THE OTHER SIDE" be calm and know that there is in fact no "side" there is only one center of it all and that center is always you yourself looking out and be aware that it's all there are out there it's all within your own mind's creation it's all there ever was it's all there ever is... --- Tony OClery <aoclery wrote: > --- In , Harsha > wrote: > > Thank you Tony. It is comforting to know that you > have it all > figured > > out! :-). > > > > Love, > > Harsha > > Namaste, > > Figured out yes but realised no!!!!!!!!!!I am still > on the bank of > the river looking over to the other side, with the > brambles of > samskaras and karma impeding me.........ONS...Tony. > > > ------------------------ Sponsor > > /join > > > > > > "Love itself is the actual form of God." > > Sri Ramana > > In "Letters from Sri Ramanasramam" by Suri Nagamma > > Your use of is subject to > > > ===== .. et333 .. eet333- .. You've got to see this >> http://www.masterytv.biz/et .. Faster. Easier. Bingo. http://sg.search. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 5, 2003 Report Share Posted November 5, 2003 --- sundar22ca <sundar22ca wrote: SNIP > It is not an easy sadhana to find the source of this > nagging feeling - > a ghost called ego. That is the problem. > > Without the ego, there would be robot like action. > > Anyone knows a simplified, well (but briefly) > explained sadhana? > sundar > > > michael replies: Yes, I know a concise sadhana. Here it is: Call on the "name", the "identity", or the "whatever?". Call on IT with every breath. Focus your attention completely and utterley on "whatever" you conceive as your goal. Or focus your attention entirely and utterley at all times on your "path". If you have nothing to focus on, or if you have nothing to do, then do "no thing". But if you feel separate, you must unite. The process of UNITING is the subject of debate; but the process happens nonetheless. Take your best shot! Love, michael Protect your identity with Mail AddressGuard http://antispam./whatsnewfree Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 5, 2003 Report Share Posted November 5, 2003 , "Tony OClery" <aoclery> wrote: > Namaste Harsha et al, > Let me add that I am still in a state of avidya rather than vidya or > prajna hahahh.............ONS..Tony. Pardon me, Tonyji, but I don't think one in a state of avidya is capable of saying something like that! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 6, 2003 Report Share Posted November 6, 2003 , wrote: > > "Tony OClery" <aoclery> > > 2003/11/05 Wed PM 05:35:50 EST > > > > Re: Grace > > > , "Tony OClery" <aoclery> > wrote: > > , Harsha wrote: > > > Thank you Tony. It is comforting to know that you have it all > > figured > > > out! :-). > > > > > > Love, > > > Harsha > > > > Namaste, > > > > Figured out yes but realised no!!!!!!!!!!I am still on the bank of > > the river looking over to the other side, with the brambles of > > samskaras and karma impeding me.........ONS...Tony. > > Namaste Harsha et al, > Let me add that I am still in a state of avidya rather than vidya or prajna hahahh.............ONS..Tony. > **************** > Modesty becomes you Guruji! :-). > > Love, > Harsha Namaste Harsha, An ant was my guru one time!! I just analysed Ramana's words and the Vedanta and with observation and neti neti came to the logical conclusion. That I knew what a king was, but I am still not a king.....hahahah...ONS...Tony. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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