Guest guest Posted November 8, 2003 Report Share Posted November 8, 2003 The light of the Self is always there as It Self, as pure consciousness. Fully awake, it is the nature of freedom. How brightly the light of the Self is reflected depends on the purity of the mind, and the subtlety of the intellect. A mind that is more or less unconscious during the awake state will be so in sleep as well and lie merged in the Self. Coming out of the Self, it is still the same mind. A mind that is becoming pure and aware has the possibility of entering the deep sleep state while conscious. That is Nirvikalpa Samadhi. Coming out, it is still the same mind, but the Self recognizes It Self even in the presence of the mind. That is why aham Brahm Asmi (I Am the Self) is one of the Mahavakyas. Sri Ramana has pointed out that deep sleep must be experience while awake. The Realization is that that the Same Self is present in all states. Only, the Self is experienced in its fullness if one enters the sleep while awake. As long as the latent tendencies are strong, Self remains covered to some degree in association with the mind. Self never fully loses sight of itself, its nature being that of Pure Self-Sight. It Sees Only It Self.. -- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 9, 2003 Report Share Posted November 9, 2003 , Harsha wrote: > The light of the Self is always there as It Self, as pure consciousness. > > Fully awake, it is the nature of freedom. > > How brightly the light of the Self is reflected depends on the purity of > the mind, and the subtlety of the intellect. > > A mind that is more or less unconscious during the awake state will be > so in sleep as well and lie merged in the Self. > > Coming out of the Self, it is still the same mind. > > A mind that is becoming pure and aware has the possibility of entering > the deep sleep state while conscious. > > That is Nirvikalpa Samadhi. Coming out, it is still the same mind, but > the Self recognizes It Self even in the presence of the mind. > > That is why aham Brahm Asmi (I Am the Self) is one of the Mahavakyas. > > Sri Ramana has pointed out that deep sleep must be experience while > awake. The Realization is that that the Same Self is present in all states. > > Only, the Self is experienced in its fullness if one enters the sleep > while awake. > > As long as the latent tendencies are strong, Self remains covered to > some degree in association with the mind. > > Self never fully loses sight of itself, its nature being that of Pure > Self-Sight. It Sees Only It Self.. Hi Harsha: I was glad to read this. Your insight seemed pointed at me as I was pondering this question of deepsleep yesterday. In a conversation last week with a fellow named Sandeep about discrimination he mentioned something about 'Bobby's World' disappearing in deep sleep and I remembered this staying awake while the mind was stilled. The faculty of discrimination being active in a sense, in discrimination between the Self and not-Self, seems to see thoughts and discard the involvement in them. I was wondering if you had any further insight about this. I hope you and yours are well by the way. Love Bobby G. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 9, 2003 Report Share Posted November 9, 2003 Hello My teacher once told me. "Illumination is deep sleep". I answered, can there be full consciousness while there is deep sleep?" He said "Full consciousness is deep sleep, only the background remains, which is consciousness. One may remain working with mind but not identified with it as people usually are." - texasbg2000 Sunday, November 09, 2003 4:45 PM Re: Is there ignorance in deep sleep? , Harsha wrote:> The light of the Self is always there as It Self, as pure consciousness.> > Fully awake, it is the nature of freedom.> > How brightly the light of the Self is reflected depends on the purity of > the mind, and the subtlety of the intellect.> > A mind that is more or less unconscious during the awake state will be > so in sleep as well and lie merged in the Self.> > Coming out of the Self, it is still the same mind.> > A mind that is becoming pure and aware has the possibility of entering > the deep sleep state while conscious.> > That is Nirvikalpa Samadhi. Coming out, it is still the same mind, but > the Self recognizes It Self even in the presence of the mind.> > That is why aham Brahm Asmi (I Am the Self) is one of the Mahavakyas.> > Sri Ramana has pointed out that deep sleep must be experience while > awake. The Realization is that that the Same Self is present in all states.> > Only, the Self is experienced in its fullness if one enters the sleep > while awake.> > As long as the latent tendencies are strong, Self remains covered to > some degree in association with the mind.> > Self never fully loses sight of itself, its nature being that of Pure > Self-Sight. It Sees Only It Self..Hi Harsha:I was glad to read this. Your insight seemed pointed at me as I was pondering this question of deepsleep yesterday.In a conversation last week with a fellow named Sandeep about discrimination he mentioned something about 'Bobby's World' disappearing in deep sleep and I remembered this staying awake while the mind was stilled.The faculty of discrimination being active in a sense, in discrimination between the Self and not-Self, seems to see thoughts and discard the involvement in them. I was wondering if you had any further insight about this.I hope you and yours are well by the way.LoveBobby G./join "Love itself is the actual form of God."Sri RamanaIn "Letters from Sri Ramanasramam" by Suri Nagamma Your use of is subject to the Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 9, 2003 Report Share Posted November 9, 2003 , "Frederico S. Gonzales" <fsg@s...> wrote: > Hello > > My teacher once told me. "Illumination is deep sleep". I answered, can there be full consciousness while there is deep sleep?" He said "Full consciousness is deep sleep, only the background remains, which is consciousness. One may remain working with mind but not identified with it as people usually are." thankyou Frederico. This was my feeling as well. Bobby G. > > - > texasbg2000 > > Sunday, November 09, 2003 4:45 PM > Re: Is there ignorance in deep sleep? > > > , Harsha wrote: > > The light of the Self is always there as It Self, as pure > consciousness. > > > > Fully awake, it is the nature of freedom. > > > > How brightly the light of the Self is reflected depends on the > purity of > > the mind, and the subtlety of the intellect. > > > > A mind that is more or less unconscious during the awake state will > be > > so in sleep as well and lie merged in the Self. > > > > Coming out of the Self, it is still the same mind. > > > > A mind that is becoming pure and aware has the possibility of > entering > > the deep sleep state while conscious. > > > > That is Nirvikalpa Samadhi. Coming out, it is still the same mind, > but > > the Self recognizes It Self even in the presence of the mind. > > > > That is why aham Brahm Asmi (I Am the Self) is one of the > Mahavakyas. > > > > Sri Ramana has pointed out that deep sleep must be experience while > > awake. The Realization is that that the Same Self is present in all > states. > > > > Only, the Self is experienced in its fullness if one enters the > sleep > > while awake. > > > > As long as the latent tendencies are strong, Self remains covered > to > > some degree in association with the mind. > > > > Self never fully loses sight of itself, its nature being that of > Pure > > Self-Sight. It Sees Only It Self.. > > Hi Harsha: > > I was glad to read this. Your insight seemed pointed at me as I was > pondering this question of deepsleep yesterday. > > In a conversation last week with a fellow named Sandeep about > discrimination he mentioned something about 'Bobby's World' > disappearing in deep sleep and I remembered this staying awake while > the mind was stilled. > > The faculty of discrimination being active in a sense, in > discrimination between the Self and not-Self, seems to see thoughts > and discard the involvement in them. > > I was wondering if you had any further insight about this. > > I hope you and yours are well by the way. > > Love > Bobby G. > > > > > Sponsor > > > > > > /join > > > > > > "Love itself is the actual form of God." > > Sri Ramana > > In "Letters from Sri Ramanasramam" by Suri Nagamma > > Terms of Service. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 9, 2003 Report Share Posted November 9, 2003 > > Hello > > > > My teacher once told me. "Illumination is deep sleep". I > answered, can there be full consciousness while there is deep sleep?" > He said "Full consciousness is deep sleep, only the background > remains, which is consciousness. One may remain working with mind but > not identified with it as people usually are." > > thankyou Frederico. This was my feeling as well. > > Bobby G. > > > > > > > > , Harsha wrote: > > > The light of the Self is always there as It Self, as pure > > consciousness. > > > > > > Fully awake, it is the nature of freedom. > > > > > > How brightly the light of the Self is reflected depends on the > > purity of > > > the mind, and the subtlety of the intellect. > > > > > > A mind that is more or less unconscious during the awake state > will > > be > > > so in sleep as well and lie merged in the Self. > > > > > > Coming out of the Self, it is still the same mind. > > > > > > A mind that is becoming pure and aware has the possibility of > > entering > > > the deep sleep state while conscious. > > > > > > That is Nirvikalpa Samadhi. Coming out, it is still the same > mind, > > but > > > the Self recognizes It Self even in the presence of the mind. > > > > > > That is why aham Brahm Asmi (I Am the Self) is one of the > > Mahavakyas. > > > > > > Sri Ramana has pointed out that deep sleep must be experience > while > > > awake. The Realization is that that the Same Self is present in > all > > states. > > > > > > Only, the Self is experienced in its fullness if one enters the > > sleep > > > while awake. > > > > > > As long as the latent tendencies are strong, Self remains > covered > > to > > > some degree in association with the mind. > > > > > > Self never fully loses sight of itself, its nature being that > of > > Pure > > > Self-Sight. It Sees Only It Self.. > > > > Hi Harsha: > > > > I was glad to read this. Your insight seemed pointed at me as I > was > > pondering this question of deepsleep yesterday. > > > > In a conversation last week with a fellow named Sandeep about > > discrimination he mentioned something about 'Bobby's World' > > disappearing in deep sleep and I remembered this staying awake > > while the mind was stilled. I see sooo mamy dearones go to lala-land at this point: to belive that they reincarnate like a clone into the next life and than the next; some even recall who they were in a previous life, pathetic! we resonate with an essence familiar to us at the most, as did Buddha recognise his previous self's essence <---! there are only essences held by and essences getting slowly refind by living organisms it is so simple all life depends on on life-force, on god-force, its present in every living thing and in deep sleep its not aberrated by the small self: its pure: one can say its pure *Consciousness love, Era > > > > The faculty of discrimination being active in a sense, in > > discrimination between the Self and not-Self, seems to see > > thoughts > > and discard the involvement in them. > > > > I was wondering if you had any further insight about this. > > > > I hope you and yours are well by the way. > > > > Love > > Bobby G. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 9, 2003 Report Share Posted November 9, 2003 This is certainly similar to the teaching of my sat-guru, Sri Atmananda. It accords with the Bhagavad Gita's sloka about day being night to the one who sees, and night being like day (pardon the vague paraphrase). And dare I say that it is our experience as well. It is a prakriya, intended to shock the analytic mind into confronting what consciousness must be like without discernable objects. As a teaching, it puts this experience within the reach of all who investigate. --Greg At 05:29 PM 11/9/2003 -0200, Frederico S. Gonzales wrote: Hello My teacher once told me. "Illumination is deep sleep". I answered, can there be full consciousness while there is deep sleep?" He said "Full consciousness is deep sleep, only the background remains, which is consciousness. One may remain working with mind but not identified with it as people usually are." - texasbg2000 Sunday, November 09, 2003 4:45 PM Re: Is there ignorance in deep sleep? , Harsha wrote: > The light of the Self is always there as It Self, as pure consciousness. > > Fully awake, it is the nature of freedom. > > How brightly the light of the Self is reflected depends on the purity of > the mind, and the subtlety of the intellect. > > A mind that is more or less unconscious during the awake state will be > so in sleep as well and lie merged in the Self. > > Coming out of the Self, it is still the same mind. > > A mind that is becoming pure and aware has the possibility of entering > the deep sleep state while conscious. > > That is Nirvikalpa Samadhi. Coming out, it is still the same mind, but > the Self recognizes It Self even in the presence of the mind. > > That is why aham Brahm Asmi (I Am the Self) is one of the Mahavakyas. > > Sri Ramana has pointed out that deep sleep must be experience while > awake. The Realization is that that the Same Self is present in all states. > > Only, the Self is experienced in its fullness if one enters the sleep > while awake. > > As long as the latent tendencies are strong, Self remains covered to > some degree in association with the mind. > > Self never fully loses sight of itself, its nature being that of Pure > Self-Sight. It Sees Only It Self.. Hi Harsha: I was glad to read this. Your insight seemed pointed at me as I was pondering this question of deepsleep yesterday. In a conversation last week with a fellow named Sandeep about discrimination he mentioned something about 'Bobby's World' disappearing in deep sleep and I remembered this staying awake while the mind was stilled. The faculty of discrimination being active in a sense, in discrimination between the Self and not-Self, seems to see thoughts and discard the involvement in them. I was wondering if you had any further insight about this. I hope you and yours are well by the way. Love Bobby G. /join "Love itself is the actual form of God." Sri Ramana In "Letters from Sri Ramanasramam" by Suri Nagamma Sponsor /join "Love itself is the actual form of God." Sri Ramana In "Letters from Sri Ramanasramam" by Suri Nagamma Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 9, 2003 Report Share Posted November 9, 2003 , "texasbg2000" <Bigbobgraham@a...> wrote: > , Harsha wrote: > > The light of the Self is always there as It Self, as pure > consciousness. > > > > Fully awake, it is the nature of freedom. > > > > How brightly the light of the Self is reflected depends on the > purity of > > the mind, and the subtlety of the intellect. > > > > A mind that is more or less unconscious during the awake state will > be > > so in sleep as well and lie merged in the Self. > > > > Coming out of the Self, it is still the same mind. > > > > A mind that is becoming pure and aware has the possibility of > entering > > the deep sleep state while conscious. > > > > That is Nirvikalpa Samadhi. Coming out, it is still the same mind, > but > > the Self recognizes It Self even in the presence of the mind. > > > > That is why aham Brahm Asmi (I Am the Self) is one of the > Mahavakyas. > > > > Sri Ramana has pointed out that deep sleep must be experience while > > awake. The Realization is that that the Same Self is present in all > states. > > > > Only, the Self is experienced in its fullness if one enters the > sleep > > while awake. > > > > As long as the latent tendencies are strong, Self remains covered > to > > some degree in association with the mind. > > > > Self never fully loses sight of itself, its nature being that of > Pure > > Self-Sight. It Sees Only It Self.. > > Hi Harsha: > > I was glad to read this. Your insight seemed pointed at me as I was > pondering this question of deepsleep yesterday. > > In a conversation last week with a fellow named Sandeep about > discrimination he mentioned something about 'Bobby's World' > disappearing in deep sleep and I remembered this staying awake while > the mind was stilled. > > The faculty of discrimination being active in a sense, in > discrimination between the Self and not-Self, seems to see thoughts > and discard the involvement in them. > > I was wondering if you had any further insight about this. > > I hope you and yours are well by the way. > > Love > Bobby G. devi: i'm laughing..i thought it was pointed at me...it was very timely...in devis world...sandeep is very poetic...but i prefer direct reference to God or the Self when reading a teaching..i loved what harshiji wrote, it was so simple and to the point.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 10, 2003 Report Share Posted November 10, 2003 , Harsha wrote: > The light of the Self is always there as It Self, as pure consciousness. Namaste, For the unrealised deep sleep is nothing but ignorance.........ONS..Tony. I am presently in London and will be in UK and Ireland for 3 weeks so postings might be a little spotty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 10, 2003 Report Share Posted November 10, 2003 texasbg2000 wrote: > Hi Harsha: > > I was glad to read this. Your insight seemed pointed at me as I was > pondering this question of deepsleep yesterday. > > In a conversation last week with a fellow named Sandeep about > discrimination he mentioned something about 'Bobby's World' > disappearing in deep sleep and I remembered this staying awake while > the mind was stilled. > > The faculty of discrimination being active in a sense, in > discrimination between the Self and not-Self, seems to see thoughts > and discard the involvement in them. > > I was wondering if you had any further insight about this. > > I hope you and yours are well by the way. > > Love > Bobby G. Thanks Bobby. I have no further insights into this right now. I don't even know what this is! :-). -- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 10, 2003 Report Share Posted November 10, 2003 Tony OClery wrote: >> Namaste, > For the unrealised deep sleep is nothing but > ignorance.........ONS..Tony. > > I am presently in London and will be in UK and Ireland for 3 weeks so > postings might be a little spotty. > ***************** Let the postings be spotty or let them be spotless. Have a good time! :-) -- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 10, 2003 Report Share Posted November 10, 2003 --- Tony OClery <aoclery wrote: SNIP > Namaste, > For the unrealised deep sleep is nothing but > ignorance.........ONS..Tony. > If deep sleep is ignorance for the "unrealised", what is it then for the "realised"? regards, michael Protect your identity with Mail AddressGuard http://antispam./whatsnewfree Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 10, 2003 Report Share Posted November 10, 2003 Namaste, For the unrealised deep sleep is nothing but ignorance.........ONS..Tony. devi: when i read this i thought of something i read yesterday. A Classic Dharma Debate between Kalu Rinpoche and Seung Sahn, taken from "Thoughts without a Thinker" by Mark Epstein, a Buddhist psychiatrist and contributing editor of Tricycle. Some friends of mine had arranged for an encounter between two prominent visiting Buddhist teachers at the house of a Harvard University psychology professor. These were teachers from two distinctly different Buddhist traditions who had never met and whose traditions had in fact had very little contact over the past thousand years. Before the worlds of Buddhism and Western psychology could come together, the various strands of Buddhism would have to encounter one another. We were to witness the first such dialogue. The teachers, seventy-year-old Kalu Rinpoche of Tibet, a veteran of years of solitary retreat, and the Zen master Seung Sahn, the first Korean Zen master to teach in the United States, were to test each other's understanding of the Buddha's teachings for the benefit of the onlooking Western students. This was to be a high form of what was being called "dharma combat," (the clashing of great minds sharpened by years of study and meditation), and we were waiting with all the anticipation that such a historic encounter deserved. The two monks entered with swirling robes – maroon and yellow for the Tibetan, austere grey and black for the Korean – and were followed by retinues of younger monks and translators with shaven heads. They settled onto cushions in the familiar cross-legged positions, and the host made it clear that the younger Zen master was to begin. The Tibetan lama sat very still, fingering a wooden rosary (mala) with one hand while murmuring, "Om mani padme hum," continuously under his breath. The Zen master, who was already gaining renown for his method of hurling questions at his students until they were forced to admit their ignorance and then bellowing, "Keep that don't know mind!" at them, reached deep inside his robes and drew out an orange. "What is this?" he demanded of the lama. "What is this?" This was a typical opening question, and we could feel him ready to pounce on whatever response he was given. The Tibetan sat quietly fingering his mala and made no move to respond. "What is this?" the Zen master insisted, holding the orange up to the Tibetan's nose. Kalu Rinpoche bent very slowly to the Tibetan monk near to him who was serving as the translator, and they whispered back and forth for several minutes. Finally the translator addressed the room: "Rinpoche says, 'What is the matter with him? Don't they have oranges where he comes from?' " The dialog progressed no further. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 11, 2003 Report Share Posted November 11, 2003 I would say, it is Self-Awareness, without subject and object. - Michael Bowes Monday, November 10, 2003 4:43 PM Re: Re: Is there ignorance in deep sleep? --- Tony OClery <aoclery > wrote:SNIP> Namaste,> For the unrealised deep sleep is nothing but > ignorance.........ONS..Tony.> If deep sleep is ignorance for the "unrealised", whatis it then for the "realised"?regards,michaelDo you ?Protect your identity with Mail AddressGuardhttp://antispam./whatsnewfree/join "Love itself is the actual form of God."Sri RamanaIn "Letters from Sri Ramanasramam" by Suri Nagamma Terms of Service. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 12, 2003 Report Share Posted November 12, 2003 Dear Friend, --- "Frederico S. Gonzales" <fsg wrote: > I would say, it is Self-Awareness, without > subject and object. michael asks: Is this your experience? Love, michael > - > Michael Bowes > > Monday, November 10, 2003 4:43 PM > Re: Re: Is there > ignorance in deep sleep? > > > > --- Tony OClery <aoclery wrote: > SNIP > > Namaste, > > For the unrealised deep sleep is nothing but > > ignorance.........ONS..Tony. > > > If deep sleep is ignorance for the "unrealised", > what > is it then for the "realised"? > > regards, > > michael > > > > > > > Protect your identity with Mail > AddressGuard > http://antispam./whatsnewfree > > Sponsor > > > > > > /join > > > > > > "Love itself is the actual form of God." > > Sri Ramana > > In "Letters from Sri Ramanasramam" by Suri Nagamma > > > > Terms of Service. > > Protect your identity with Mail AddressGuard http://antispam./whatsnewfree Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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