Guest guest Posted November 11, 2003 Report Share Posted November 11, 2003 > >F: My teacher once told me. "Illumination is deep sleep".I > answered, can there be full consciousness while there is deep sleep?" > He said "Full consciousness is deep sleep, only the background > remains, which is consciousness. One may remain working with mind but > not identified with it as people usually are." > Harsha: > > > The light of the Self is always there as It Self, as pure > > consciousness. > > > > > > Fully awake, it is the nature of freedom. > > > > > > How brightly the light of the Self is reflected depends on the > > purity of > > > the mind, and the subtlety of the intellect. > > > > > > A mind that is more or less unconscious during the awake state > will > > be > > > so in sleep as well and lie merged in the Self. > > > > > > Coming out of the Self, it is still the same mind. > > > > > > A mind that is becoming pure and aware has the possibility of > > entering > > > the deep sleep state while conscious. > > > > > > That is Nirvikalpa Samadhi. Coming out, it is still the same > mind, > > but > > > the Self recognizes It Self even in the presence of the mind. > > > > > > That is why aham Brahm Asmi (I Am the Self) is one of the > > Mahavakyas. > > > > > > Sri Ramana has pointed out that deep sleep must be experience > while > > > awake. The Realization is that that the Same Self is present in > all > > states. > > > > > > Only, the Self is experienced in its fullness if one enters the > > sleep > > > while awake. > > > > > > As long as the latent tendencies are strong, Self remains > covered > > to > > > some degree in association with the mind. > > > > > > Self never fully loses sight of itself, its nature being that > of > > Pure > > > Self-Sight. It Sees Only It Self.. > > > > Hi Harsha: > > > >B G.: I was glad to read this. Your insight seemed pointed at me as I > was > > pondering this question of deepsleep yesterday. > > > > In a conversation last week with a fellow named Sandeep about > > discrimination he mentioned something about 'Bobby's World' > > disappearing in deep sleep and I remembered this staying awake > > while the mind was stilled. Era: I see sooo many dearones go to lala-land at this point: to belive that they reincarnate like a clone into the next life and than the next; some even recall who they were in a previous life, pathetic! we resonate with an essence familiar to us at the most, as did Buddha recognise his previous self's essence <---! there are only essences held by and essences getting slowly refined by living organisms it is so simple all life depends on on life-force, on god-force, its present in every living thing and in deep sleep its not aberrated by the small self: its pure: one can say its pure *Consciousness love, Era > > B: The faculty of discrimination being active in a sense, in > > discrimination between the Self and not-Self, seems to see > > thoughts > > and discard the involvement in them. > > > > I was wondering if you had any further insight about this. > > > > I hope you and yours are well by the way. > > ============================== > > SG: really many children have very valid past life recall...... > > who says anyone is like a clone ? i have past life > > knowledge which was quite instrumental in understanding what > > was being played out within this one and why ...... > > E: yes, that can be useful for processing > > > I hate to tell you this, but all these > holy expenses awakening visions are > created > by the mind > > in other words by Lucifer > > ***mind is the Lucifer the apple we > should not have > > to derail us to test us and to keep the > gate toward god clean > > some are kept up by great spiritual > sages and mystics, the Bardo belongs > to these also > > ETHICS!!!!!! > > because STRAIGHT is the way and > NARROW the gate what leads to god [life] > > > all the inner plane holy visions and > and glimpses, experiences > belong among these > > above the supracausal plane, where > the god planes start, there is a final > gate to go through it mind must be left > behind > > it can NOT go there, very very few have > the courage to trough that one because > it literally feels like death > > and that meditation is storyless > > monks who went trough recognise > each other but has no story to share > just a consciousness an understanding > > > past life experience ? > > > > E: -- are mindgames or processing the 'story' > > but NOT from god > > plus wants are a no no only without wanting innocent like a child can pass into the god > planes > > > > > > E: > there are only essences held by and > > > essences getting slowly refined > > > > > by living organisms > > > > > it is so simple > > > just to have the RIGHT VIEW > > and the right ETHICS do not want "IT" for yourself > > >SG: the essence is always pure > > > > > E: no, still its "personalised' its not > > -- all life depends on on life-force, on god-force, its present in > > > every living thing and in deep sleep its not aberrated by the > > small self: its pure: one can say its pure *Consciousness > > but that state can not be held in waking a state > > even Sri Ramana could not hold this > motionless samadhi where he had to > be taken care of by others > the difference between deep sleep and deep meditation lies from where one exist the body; in deep sleep mostly through the hara that is why siting is stressed for meditation its better to stoop forward than fall back, there is a geometry involved what makes the crown or thirdeye exit easier Era ps: since this subject appers at many forums I think the universe wnats us to work on it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 11, 2003 Report Share Posted November 11, 2003 , "Era" <satkarta7@j...> wrote: > > >F: My teacher once told me. "Illumination is deep sleep".I > > answered, can there be full consciousness while there is deep > sleep?" > > He said "Full consciousness is deep sleep, only the background > > remains, which is consciousness. One may remain working with mind > but > > not identified with it as people usually are." > > > Harsha: > > > > The light of the Self is always there as It Self, as pure > > > consciousness. > > > > > > > > Fully awake, it is the nature of freedom. > > > > > > > > How brightly the light of the Self is reflected depends on > the > > > purity of > > > > the mind, and the subtlety of the intellect. > > > > > > > > A mind that is more or less unconscious during the awake > state > > will > > > be > > > > so in sleep as well and lie merged in the Self. > > > > > > > > Coming out of the Self, it is still the same mind. > > > > > > > > A mind that is becoming pure and aware has the possibility > of > > > entering > > > > the deep sleep state while conscious. > > > > > > > > That is Nirvikalpa Samadhi. Coming out, it is still the same > > mind, > > > but > > > > the Self recognizes It Self even in the presence of the mind. > > > > > > > > That is why aham Brahm Asmi (I Am the Self) is one of the > > > Mahavakyas. > > > > > > > > Sri Ramana has pointed out that deep sleep must be > experience > > while > > > > awake. The Realization is that that the Same Self is present > in > > all > > > states. > > > > > > > > Only, the Self is experienced in its fullness if one enters > the > > > sleep > > > > while awake. > > > > > > > > As long as the latent tendencies are strong, Self remains > > covered > > > to > > > > some degree in association with the mind. > > > > > > > > Self never fully loses sight of itself, its nature being > that > > of > > > Pure > > > > Self-Sight. It Sees Only It Self.. > > > > > > Hi Harsha: > > > > > >B G.: I was glad to read this. Your insight seemed pointed at me as > I > > was > > > pondering this question of deepsleep yesterday. > > > > > > In a conversation last week with a fellow named Sandeep about > > > discrimination he mentioned something about 'Bobby's World' > > > disappearing in deep sleep and I remembered this staying awake > > > while the mind was stilled. > > Era: > I see sooo many dearones go to lala-land at this point: to belive > that they reincarnate like a clone into the next life and than the > next; some even recall who they were in a previous life, pathetic! > we resonate with an essence familiar to us at the most, as did > Buddha recognise his previous self's > essence <---! > > there are only essences held by and > essences getting slowly refined > by living organisms > it is so simple > all life depends on on life-force, on god-force, its present in > every living thing and in deep sleep its not aberrated by the small > self: its pure: one can say its pure *Consciousness > love, Era > > > > > B: The faculty of discrimination being active in a sense, in > > > discrimination between the Self and not-Self, seems to see > > > thoughts > > > and discard the involvement in them. > > > > > > I was wondering if you had any further insight about this. > > > > > > I hope you and yours are well by the way. > > > > ============================== > > > > SG: really many children have very valid past life recall...... > > > who says anyone is like a clone ? i have past life > > > knowledge which was quite instrumental in understanding what > > > was being played out within this one and why ...... > > > > E: yes, that can be useful for processing > > > > > > I hate to tell you this, but all these > > holy expenses awakening visions are > > created > > by the mind > > > > in other words by Lucifer > > > > ***mind is the Lucifer the apple we > > should not have > > > > to derail us to test us and to keep the > > gate toward god clean > > > > some are kept up by great spiritual > > sages and mystics, the Bardo belongs > > to these also > > > > ETHICS!!!!!! > > > > because STRAIGHT is the way and > > NARROW the gate what leads to god [life] > > > > > > all the inner plane holy visions and > > and glimpses, experiences > > belong among these > > > > above the supracausal plane, where > > the god planes start, there is a final > > gate to go through it mind must be left > > behind > > > > it can NOT go there, very very few have > > the courage to trough that one because > > it literally feels like death > > > > and that meditation is storyless > > > > monks who went trough recognise > > each other but has no story to share > > just a consciousness an understanding > > > > > past life experience ? > > > > > > > E: -- are mindgames or processing the 'story' > > > > but NOT from god > > > > plus wants are a no no only without wanting innocent like a child can pass into the god > > planes > > > > > > > > > > E: > > there are only essences held by and > > > > essences getting slowly refined > > > > > > > by living organisms > > > > > > > it is so simple > > > > > just to have the RIGHT VIEW > > > > and the right ETHICS > > do not want "IT" for yourself > > > > >SG: the essence is always pure > > > > > > > > > > E: no, still its "personalised' its not > > > > > -- all life depends on on life-force, on god-force, its present in > > > > every living thing and in deep sleep its not aberrated by the > > > small self: its pure: one can say its pure *Consciousness > > > > but that state can not be held in waking a state > > > > even Sri Ramana could not hold this > > motionless samadhi where he had to > > be taken care of by others > > > the difference between deep sleep and > deep meditation lies from where one > exist the body; in deep sleep mostly > through the hara > that is why siting is stressed for meditation its better to stoop forward > than fall back, there is a geometry involved > what makes the crown or thirdeye exit > easier > > Era > > ps: since this subject appers at > many forums I think the universe wnats > us to work on it --if someone "gets it" it is from Grace, not through any wise text those are pointers only rather it can be grasped in an instant, by osmosis and in that same instance s/he is onto a higher essence sharing with like and the knowledge who dwell in there is available --if if someone is lucky enough and deserved through correct spiritual ethics and collects essences what are useful form mankind its very possible that such essence will manifest on the physical plane all the way in value of an Avatar like Buddha ONLY if its helpful for elevating mankind --its not a reincarnation of anykind of small selfs --this is a very crucial point, where the android the small ego tries to claim god Not possible God is a flow, can NOT be claimed grabbed onto or owned the minute you try its for the android and puff its gone It is all on a razors edge and all razors have 2 sides --I have two cyberfriends who gone stray at this crucial point they want to be 'saved' and reincarnate but the minute one has an AGENDA instead of a VOID wher god can flow in thos the sadhana goes to the android --one of them is meditation laying down forgetting that the sacred geometry at play as the the God-Tumo: Life-Force is coming from above not form the North Pole once on is 'up' already its ok to lay down but the value of that meditation we called sleepitaion its less Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 12, 2003 Report Share Posted November 12, 2003 Dear Friends, I like to sleep. And whether I like it or not, sleep happens. But if illumination is deep sleep then God/SELF/WHATEVER can keep it. Love, michael --- Era <satkarta7 wrote: > > >F: My teacher once told me. "Illumination is > deep sleep".I > > answered, can there be full consciousness while > there is deep > sleep?" > > He said "Full consciousness is deep sleep, only > the background > > remains, which is consciousness. One may remain > working with mind > but > > not identified with it as people usually are." > > > Harsha: > > > > The light of the Self is always there as It > Self, as pure > > > consciousness. > > > > > > > > Fully awake, it is the nature of freedom. > > > > > > > > How brightly the light of the Self is > reflected depends on > the > > > purity of > > > > the mind, and the subtlety of the intellect. > > > > > > > > A mind that is more or less unconscious during > the awake > state > > will > > > be > > > > so in sleep as well and lie merged in the > Self. > > > > > > > > Coming out of the Self, it is still the same > mind. > > > > > > > > A mind that is becoming pure and aware has the > possibility > of > > > entering > > > > the deep sleep state while conscious. > > > > > > > > That is Nirvikalpa Samadhi. Coming out, it is > still the same > > mind, > > > but > > > > the Self recognizes It Self even in the > presence of the mind. > > > > > > > > That is why aham Brahm Asmi (I Am the Self) is > one of the > > > Mahavakyas. > > > > > > > > Sri Ramana has pointed out that deep sleep > must be > experience > > while > > > > awake. The Realization is that that the Same > Self is present > in > > all > > > states. > > > > > > > > Only, the Self is experienced in its fullness > if one enters > the > > > sleep > > > > while awake. > > > > > > > > As long as the latent tendencies are strong, > Self remains > > covered > > > to > > > > some degree in association with the mind. > > > > > > > > Self never fully loses sight of itself, its > nature being > that > > of > > > Pure > > > > Self-Sight. It Sees Only It Self.. > > > > > > Hi Harsha: > > > > > >B G.: I was glad to read this. Your insight > seemed pointed at me as > I > > was > > > pondering this question of deepsleep yesterday. > > > > > > In a conversation last week with a fellow named > Sandeep about > > > discrimination he mentioned something about > 'Bobby's World' > > > disappearing in deep sleep and I remembered this > staying awake > > > while the mind was stilled. > > Era: > I see sooo many dearones go to lala-land at this > point: to belive > that they reincarnate like a clone into the next > life and than the > next; some even recall who they were in a previous > life, pathetic! > we resonate with an essence familiar to us at the > most, as did > Buddha recognise his previous self's > essence <---! > > there are only essences held by and > essences getting slowly refined > by living organisms > it is so simple > all life depends on on life-force, on god-force, its > present in > every living thing and in deep sleep its not > aberrated by the small > self: its pure: one can say its pure *Consciousness > love, Era > > > > > B: The faculty of discrimination being active in a > sense, in > > > discrimination between the Self and not-Self, > seems to see > > > thoughts > > > and discard the involvement in them. > > > > > > I was wondering if you had any further insight > about this. > > > > > > I hope you and yours are well by the way. > > > > ============================== > > > > SG: really many children have very valid past > life recall...... > > > who says anyone is like a clone ? i have past > life > > > knowledge which was quite instrumental in > understanding what > > > was being played out within this one and why > ...... > > > > E: yes, that can be useful for processing > > > > > > I hate to tell you this, but all these > > holy expenses awakening visions are > > created > > by the mind > > > > in other words by Lucifer > > > > ***mind is the Lucifer the apple we > > should not have > > > > to derail us to test us and to keep the > > gate toward god clean > > > > some are kept up by great spiritual > > sages and mystics, the Bardo belongs > > to these also > > > > ETHICS!!!!!! > > > > because STRAIGHT is the way and > > NARROW the gate what leads to god [life] > > > > > > all the inner plane holy visions and > > and glimpses, experiences > > belong among these > > > > above the supracausal plane, where > > the god planes start, there is a final > > gate to go through it mind must be left > > behind > > > > it can NOT go there, very very few have > > the courage to trough that one because > > it literally feels like death > > > > and that meditation is storyless > > > > monks who went trough recognise > > each other but has no story to share > > just a consciousness an understanding > > > > > past life experience ? > > > > > > > E: -- are mindgames or processing the 'story' > > > > but NOT from god > > > > plus wants are a no no only without wanting > innocent like a child can pass into the god > > planes > > > === message truncated === Protect your identity with Mail AddressGuard http://antispam./whatsnewfree Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 12, 2003 Report Share Posted November 12, 2003 Hello Era, It is interesting to notice that while you discard past-life rememberance as "pathetic", you seem to have some kind of adoration for a pseudo-science that uses such cool terms as "synchronicity", "essences", which are in fact meaningless terms. I would recommend you read Sri Maharshi's booklet entitled Who Am I ? and the one called Spiritual Instruction. He clearly states in these books that the Universe is a mere illusion. It has no substance or reality of itself, independent from the subject which is experiencing it. There is not such a thing as "The Universe", "Essence". Sri Maharshi and others clearly state that there is only one thing which is subjective experience of the same nature of a dream. Each life is another dream created by the illusion of a separate entity. When this illusion vanishes, there is Nirvikalpa Samadhi and no more dream after death. No more subject-object play. The Buddha stated the same thing, and the objective of both Advaita Vedanta and Buddhism are to realize that you have been living in a dream and not produce anymore dream after death. Past lives are real. As real as the clouds in the sky, or these letters here. It all just happens within Consciousness. May all be freed from samsara. Fred - Era Tuesday, November 11, 2003 7:46 PM Re: deep sleep?/this went into synchronicity > >F: My teacher once told me. "Illumination is deep sleep".I> answered, can there be full consciousness while there is deepsleep?"> He said "Full consciousness is deep sleep, only the background> remains, which is consciousness. One may remain working with mindbut> not identified with it as people usually are.">Harsha: > > > The light of the Self is always there as It Self, as pure> > consciousness.> > >> > > Fully awake, it is the nature of freedom.> > >> > > How brightly the light of the Self is reflected depends onthe> > purity of> > > the mind, and the subtlety of the intellect.> > >> > > A mind that is more or less unconscious during the awakestate> will> > be> > > so in sleep as well and lie merged in the Self.> > >> > > Coming out of the Self, it is still the same mind.> > >> > > A mind that is becoming pure and aware has the possibilityof> > entering> > > the deep sleep state while conscious.> > >> > > That is Nirvikalpa Samadhi. Coming out, it is still the same> mind,> > but> > > the Self recognizes It Self even in the presence of the mind.> > >> > > That is why aham Brahm Asmi (I Am the Self) is one of the> > Mahavakyas.> > >> > > Sri Ramana has pointed out that deep sleep must beexperience> while> > > awake. The Realization is that that the Same Self is presentin> all> > states.> > >> > > Only, the Self is experienced in its fullness if one entersthe> > sleep> > > while awake.> > >> > > As long as the latent tendencies are strong, Self remains> covered> > to> > > some degree in association with the mind.> > >> > > Self never fully loses sight of itself, its nature beingthat> of> > Pure> > > Self-Sight. It Sees Only It Self..> >> > Hi Harsha:> >> >B G.: I was glad to read this. Your insight seemed pointed at me asI> was> > pondering this question of deepsleep yesterday.> >> > In a conversation last week with a fellow named Sandeep about> > discrimination he mentioned something about 'Bobby's World'> > disappearing in deep sleep and I remembered this staying awake> > while the mind was stilled.Era:I see sooo many dearones go to lala-land at this point: to belivethat they reincarnate like a clone into the next life and than thenext; some even recall who they were in a previous life, pathetic!we resonate with an essence familiar to us at the most, as didBuddha recognise his previous self'sessence <---!there are only essences held by andessences getting slowly refinedby living organismsit is so simpleall life depends on on life-force, on god-force, its present inevery living thing and in deep sleep its not aberrated by the smallself: its pure: one can say its pure *Consciousnesslove, Era> >B: The faculty of discrimination being active in a sense, in> > discrimination between the Self and not-Self, seems to see> > thoughts> > and discard the involvement in them.> >> > I was wondering if you had any further insight about this.> >> > I hope you and yours are well by the way.> >==============================> > SG: really many children have very valid past life recall......> > who says anyone is like a clone ? i have past life> > knowledge which was quite instrumental in understanding what> > was being played out within this one and why .......>> E: yes, that can be useful for processing>>> I hate to tell you this, but all these> holy expenses awakening visions are> created> by the mind>> in other words by Lucifer>> ***mind is the Lucifer the apple we> should not have>> to derail us to test us and to keep the> gate toward god clean>> some are kept up by great spiritual> sages and mystics, the Bardo belongs> to these also>> ETHICS!!!!!!>> because STRAIGHT is the way and> NARROW the gate what leads to god [life]>>> all the inner plane holy visions and> and glimpses, experiences> belong among these>> above the supracausal plane, where> the god planes start, there is a final> gate to go through it mind must be left> behind>> it can NOT go there, very very few have> the courage to trough that one because> it literally feels like death>> and that meditation is storyless>> monks who went trough recognise> each other but has no story to share> just a consciousness an understanding>> > past life experience ?> >>> E: -- are mindgames or processing the 'story'>> but NOT from god>> plus wants are a no no only without wanting innocent like a child can pass into the god> planes>>> >> > E:> there are only essences held by and> > > essences getting slowly refined> >> > > by living organisms> >> > > it is so simple> >> just to have the RIGHT VIEW>> and the right ETHICSdo not want "IT" for yourself>> >SG: the essence is always pure>>>>> E: no, still its "personalised' its not>>-- all life depends on on life-force, on god-force, its present in> > > every living thing and in deep sleep its not aberrated by the> > small self: its pure: one can say its pure *Consciousness> >but that state can not be held in waking a state>> even Sri Ramana could not hold this> motionless samadhi where he had to> be taken care of by others>the difference between deep sleep anddeep meditation lies from where oneexist the body; in deep sleep mostlythrough the harathat is why siting is stressed for meditation its better to stoop forwardthan fall back, there is a geometry involved what makes the crown or thirdeye exiteasier Eraps: since this subject appers at many forums I think the universe wnatsus to work on it/join "Love itself is the actual form of God."Sri RamanaIn "Letters from Sri Ramanasramam" by Suri Nagamma Your use of is subject to the Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 13, 2003 Report Share Posted November 13, 2003 hi Frederico, "Frederico S. Gonzales" <fsg@s...> wrote: > Hello Era, > > It is interesting to notice that while you discard past-life remembrance is a thought springing from the mind not real > as "pathetic", you seem to have some kind of adoration for a pseudo-science that uses such cool terms as "synchronicity", "essences", which are in fact meaningless terms. > I would recommend you read Sri Maharshi's booklet entitled Who Am I ? and the one called Spiritual Instruction. > He clearly states in these books that the Universe is a mere illusion. It has no substance or reality of itself, independent from the subject which is experiencing it. There is not such a thing as "The Universe", "Essence". Sri Maharshi and others clearly state that there is only one thing which is subjective experience of the same nature of a dream. Each life is another dream created by the illusion of a separate entity. yes > When this illusion vanishes, there is Nirvikalpa Samadhi and no more dream after death. the person who reached Nirvikalpa samadhi: thus was able to do away with his small self did a good job after death the God-power remains and person is no more life however goes on > No more subject-object play. > The Buddha stated the same thing, and the objective of both Advaita Vedanta and Buddhism are to realize that you have been living in a dream and not produce anymore dream after death. what effects the collective consciousness pool is not what you dream after death, but what you put in there: into the indra's net while you are alive because whats in there will manifest but it is not tied to "A" person it us a flow and a musical chair thingy out of this pool manifestations happen that is why the ethics while alive is most important: what you put in there, including your wants and hidden dreams all has to be clean, because it will manifest > Past lives are real. As real as the clouds in the sky, or these letters here. It all just happens within Consciousness. > May all be freed from samsara. > Fred as real as an other part of an illusion made up by the mind > > Re: deep sleep?/this went into synchronicity > > > > >F: My teacher once told me. "Illumination is deep sleep".I > > answered, can there be full consciousness while there is deep > sleep?" > > He said "Full consciousness is deep sleep, only the background > > remains, which is consciousness. One may remain working with mind > but > > not identified with it as people usually are." exactly, so why didn't you listen to him ? > > > Harsha: > > > > The light of the Self is always there as It Self, as pure > > > consciousness. > > > > > > > > Fully awake, it is the nature of freedom. > > > > > > > > How brightly the light of the Self is reflected depends on > the > > > purity of > > > > the mind, and the subtlety of the intellect. > > > > > > > > A mind that is more or less unconscious during the awake > state > > will > > > be > > > > so in sleep as well and lie merged in the Self. > > > > > > > > Coming out of the Self, it is still the same mind. > > > > > > > > A mind that is becoming pure and aware has the possibility > of > > > entering > > > > the deep sleep state while conscious. > > > > > > > > That is Nirvikalpa Samadhi. Coming out, it is still the same > > mind, > > > but > > > > the Self recognizes It Self even in the presence of the mind. > > > > > > > > That is why aham Brahm Asmi (I Am the Self) is one of the > > > Mahavakyas. > > > > > > > > Sri Ramana has pointed out that deep sleep must be > experience > > while > > > > awake. The Realization is that that the Same Self is present > in > > all > > > states. > > > > > > > > Only, the Self is experienced in its fullness if one enters > the > > > sleep > > > > while awake. > > > > > > > > As long as the latent tendencies are strong, Self remains > > covered > > > to > > > > some degree in association with the mind. > > > > > > > > Self never fully loses sight of itself, its nature being > that > > of > > > Pure > > > > Self-Sight. It Sees Only It Self.. > > > > > > Hi Harsha: > > > > > >B G.: I was glad to read this. Your insight seemed pointed at me as > I > > was > > > pondering this question of deepsleep yesterday. > > > > > > In a conversation last week with a fellow named Sandeep about > > > discrimination he mentioned something about 'Bobby's World' > > > disappearing in deep sleep and I remembered this staying awake > > > while the mind was stilled. > > Era: > I see sooo many dearones go to lala-land at this point: to belive > that they reincarnate like a clone into the next life and than the > next; some even recall who they were in a previous life, pathetic! > we resonate with an essence familiar to us at the most, as did > Buddha recognise his previous self's > essence <---! > > there are only essences held by and > essences getting slowly refined > by living organisms > it is so simple > all life depends on on life-force, on god-force, its present in > every living thing and in deep sleep its not aberrated by the small > self: its pure: one can say its pure *Consciousness > love, Era > > > > > B: The faculty of discrimination being active in a sense, in > > > discrimination between the Self and not-Self, seems to see > > > thoughts > > > and discard the involvement in them. > > > > > > I was wondering if you had any further insight about this. > > > > > > I hope you and yours are well by the way. > > > > ============================== > > > > SG: really many children have very valid past life recall...... > > > who says anyone is like a clone ? i have past life > > > knowledge which was quite instrumental in understanding what > > > was being played out within this one and why ...... > > > > E: yes, that can be useful for processing > > > > > > I hate to tell you this, but all these > > holy expenses awakening visions are > > created > > by the mind > > > > in other words by Lucifer > > > > ***mind is the Lucifer the apple we > > should not have > > > > to derail us to test us and to keep the > > gate toward god clean > > > > some are kept up by great spiritual > > sages and mystics, the Bardo belongs > > to these also > > > > ETHICS!!!!!! > > > > because STRAIGHT is the way and > > NARROW the gate what leads to god [life] > > > > > > all the inner plane holy visions and > > and glimpses, experiences > > belong among these > > > > above the supracausal plane, where > > the god planes start, there is a final > > gate to go through it mind must be left > > behind > > > > it can NOT go there, very very few have > > the courage to trough that one because > > it literally feels like death > > > > and that meditation is storyless > > > > monks who went trough recognise > > each other but has no story to share > > just a consciousness an understanding > > > > > past life experience ? > > > > > > > E: -- are mindgames or processing the 'story' > > > > but NOT from god > > > > plus wants are a no no only without wanting innocent like a child can pass into the god > > planes > > > > > > > > > > E: > > there are only essences held by and > > > > essences getting slowly refined > > > > > > > by living organisms > > > > > > > it is so simple > > > > > just to have the RIGHT VIEW > > > > and the right ETHICS > > do not want "IT" for yourself > > > > >SG: the essence is always pure > > > > > > > > > > E: no, still its "personalised' its not > > > > > -- all life depends on on life-force, on god-force, its present in > > > > every living thing and in deep sleep its not aberrated by the > > > small self: its pure: one can say its pure *Consciousness > > > > but that state can not be held in waking a state > > > > even Sri Ramana could not hold this > > motionless samadhi where he had to > > be taken care of by others > > > the difference between deep sleep and > deep meditation lies from where one > exist the body; in deep sleep mostly > through the hara > that is why siting is stressed for meditation its better to stoop forward > than fall back, there is a geometry involved > what makes the crown or thirdeye exit > easier > > Era > > ps: since this subject appers at > many forums I think the universe wnats > us to work on it > > > > > "Love itself is the actual form of God." > > Sri Ramana Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 13, 2003 Report Share Posted November 13, 2003 , "Era" <satkarta7@j...> wrote: > hi Frederico, > > > "Frederico S. Gonzales" <fsg@s...> wrote: > > Hello Era, > > > > It is interesting to notice that while you discard past-life remembrance > > > is a thought springing from the mind > > not real > > > > as "pathetic", you seem to have some kind of adoration for a pseudo-science that uses such cool terms as "synchronicity", "essences", which are in fact meaningless terms. > > I would recommend you read Sri Maharshi's booklet entitled Who Am I ? and the one called Spiritual Instruction. > > He clearly states in these books that the Universe is a mere illusion. It has no substance or reality of itself, independent from the subject which is experiencing it. There is not such a thing as "The Universe", "Essence". Sri Maharshi and others clearly state that there is only one thing which is subjective experience of the same nature of a dream. Each life is another dream created by the illusion of a separate entity. > > yes > > > > When this illusion vanishes, there is Nirvikalpa Samadhi and no more dream after death. > > > the person who reached Nirvikalpa > samadhi: thus was able to do away with > his small self did a good job > > after death the God-power remains > > and person is no more > > life however goes on > > > > No more subject-object play. > > The Buddha stated the same thing, and the objective of both Advaita Vedanta and Buddhism are to realize that you have been living in a dream and not produce anymore dream after death. > > > what effects the collective consciousness > pool is not what you dream after death, > but what you put in there: into the > indra's net while you are alive > > because whats in there will manifest > > but it is not tied to "A" person it us > a flow and a musical chair thingy > out of this pool manifestations happen > > that is why the ethics while alive > is most important: what you put in > there, including your wants and hidden > dreams all has to be clean, because it > will manifest > > > > Past lives are real. As real as the clouds in the sky, or these letters here. It all just happens within Consciousness. > > May all be freed from samsara. > > Fred > > > as real as an other part of an > illusion made up by the mind > > > > > > > > Re: deep sleep?/this went into synchronicity > > > > > > > >F: My teacher once told me. "Illumination is deep sleep".I > > > answered, can there be full consciousness while there is deep > > sleep?" > > > He said "Full consciousness is deep sleep, only the background > > > remains, which is consciousness. One may remain working with mind > > but > > > not identified with it as people usually are." > > > exactly, so why didn't you listen to him ? > Frederico, not to spend time, or waste any though around the reincarnation selfish thingy belongs to surrender 101 to be good in the NOW is what matters > > Era: > > I see sooo many dearones go to lala-land at this point: to belive > > that they reincarnate like a clone into the next life and than the > > next; some even recall who they were in a previous life, pathetic! > > we resonate with an essence familiar to us at the most, as did > > Buddha recognise his previous self's > > essence <---! > > > > there are only essences held by and > > essences getting slowly refined > > by living organisms > > it is so simple > > all life depends on on life-force, on god-force, its present in > > every living thing and in deep sleep its not aberrated by the small > > self: its pure: one can say its pure *Consciousness > > love, Era > > > > > > > > B: The faculty of discrimination being active in a sense, in > > > > discrimination between the Self and not-Self, seems to see > > > > thoughts > > > > and discard the involvement in them. > > > > > > > > I was wondering if you had any further insight about this. > > > > > > > > I hope you and yours are well by the way. > > > > > > ============================== > > > > > > SG: really many children have very valid past life recall...... > > > > who says anyone is like a clone ? i have past life > > > > knowledge which was quite instrumental in understanding what > > > > was being played out within this one and why ...... > > > > > > E: yes, that can be useful for processing > > > > > > > > > I hate to tell you this, but all these > > > holy expenses awakening visions are > > > created > > > by the mind > > > > > > in other words by Lucifer > > > > > > ***mind is the Lucifer the apple we > > > should not have > > > > > > to derail us to test us and to keep the > > > gate toward god clean > > > > > > some are kept up by great spiritual > > > sages and mystics, the Bardo belongs > > > to these also > > > > > > ETHICS!!!!!! > > > > > > because STRAIGHT is the way and > > > NARROW the gate what leads to god [life] > > > > > > > > > all the inner plane holy visions and > > > and glimpses, experiences > > > belong among these > > > > > > above the supracausal plane, where > > > the god planes start, there is a final > > > gate to go through it mind must be left > > > behind > > > > > > it can NOT go there, very very few have > > > the courage to trough that one because > > > it literally feels like death > > > > > > and that meditation is storyless > > > > > > monks who went trough recognise > > > each other but has no story to share > > > just a consciousness an understanding > > > > > > > past life experience ? > > > > > > > > > > E: -- are mindgames or processing the 'story' > > > > > > but NOT from god > > > > > > plus wants are a no no only without wanting innocent like a child can pass into the god > > > planes > > > > > > > > > > > > > > E: > > > there are only essences held by and > > > > > essences getting slowly refined > > > > > > > > > by living organisms > > > > > > > > > it is so simple > > > > > > > just to have the RIGHT VIEW > > > > > > and the right ETHICS > > > > do not want "IT" for yourself > > > > > > >SG: the essence is always pure > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > E: no, still its "personalised' its not > > > > > > > > -- all life depends on on life-force, on god-force, its present in > > > > > every living thing and in deep sleep its not aberrated by the > > > > small self: its pure: one can say its pure *Consciousness > > > > > > but that state can not be held in waking a state > > > > > > even Sri Ramana could not hold this > > > motionless samadhi where he had to > > > be taken care of by others > > > > > the difference between deep sleep and > > deep meditation lies from where one > > exist the body; in deep sleep mostly > > through the hara > > that is why siting is stressed for meditation its better to stoop forward > > than fall back, there is a geometry involved > > what makes the crown or thirdeye exit > > easier > > > > Era > > > > ps: since this subject appers at > > many forums I think the universe wnats > > us to work on it > > > > > > > > > > "Love itself is the actual form of God." > > > > Sri Ramana Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 14, 2003 Report Share Posted November 14, 2003 , "Era" <satkarta7@j...> wrote: > , "Era" <satkarta7@j...> wrote: > > hi Frederico, > > > > > > "Frederico S. Gonzales" <fsg@s...> wrote: > > > Hello Era, > > > > > > It is interesting to notice that while you discard past- life remembrance > > > > > > is a thought springing from the mind > > > > not real > > > > > > > as "pathetic", you seem to have some kind of adoration for a pseudo-science that uses such cool terms as "synchronicity", "essences", which are in fact meaningless terms. > > > > Frederico, > > not to spend time, or waste any > though around the reincarnation > selfish thingy belongs to surrender 101 > > to be good in the NOW is what matters By being fully in the now, one would learn that it encompasses all time -- past, present, and future. (From the book "Reincarnation 101") :-) xxxtg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 14, 2003 Report Share Posted November 14, 2003 Hello Era, There are many approaches to past life and world views on differing schools of both Buddhism and Advaita Vedanta. My approach is the Buddhist Cittamatrin view. The Cittamattrin view was considered heretic by most Buddhists because it gets too close to the Advaitin notion of an Atman which projects a whole Universe. The Cittamatri states that everything springs from one's mind. The world is nothing but a residue of karmic tendencies. As to the absence of a personal self which reincarnates, the Cittamatri school states that there is no self who reincarnates, but once you start to investigate the process (which is unitary) you can trace back previous lives which you may remember. When you check to see if those persons really did exist, you may be surprised to learn that you remembered a life of a person who did exist. There are proofs that this notion is possible and supported by fact. However, because the process is devoid of a true self (anatman) it may well be that what the person remembers is simply another event which occured in the process, to which this person now has a kind of a link of causality. Both past lives and actual life are projections, dreams. Past lives are not fantasies of the mind when correctly remembered. They may be traced back and the persons verified -- this person existed, etc. But, because of the nature of the process which is single and unitary, it is impossible to determine a self here or there. There are only manifestations (lives) which connect to one another. In ultimate instance, every part of the process contains every other part in potential, so every individual might be seen to be the whole of the process. This is complicated to explain. Because this process is non-dual and devoid of self, for example in my mind I might access information from your life. Very few people can do this of course, but it is possible because in the last instance you are contained within me as well as I am contained within you. This is my view. Best Regards. Fred - Era Thursday, November 13, 2003 8:48 AM Re: deep sleep?/this went into synchronicity hi Frederico,"Frederico S. Gonzales" <fsg@s...> wrote:> Hello Era,> > It is interesting to notice that while you discard past-life remembranceis a thought springing from the mindnot real> as "pathetic", you seem to have some kind of adoration for a pseudo-science that uses such cool terms as "synchronicity", "essences", which are in fact meaningless terms. > I would recommend you read Sri Maharshi's booklet entitled Who Am I ? and the one called Spiritual Instruction. > He clearly states in these books that the Universe is a mere illusion. It has no substance or reality of itself, independent from the subject which is experiencing it. There is not such a thing as "The Universe", "Essence". Sri Maharshi and others clearly state that there is only one thing which is subjective experience of the same nature of a dream. Each life is another dream created by the illusion of a separate entity. yes> When this illusion vanishes, there is Nirvikalpa Samadhi and no more dream after death. the person who reached Nirvikalpasamadhi: thus was able to do away withhis small self did a good jobafter death the God-power remainsand person is no morelife however goes on> No more subject-object play.> The Buddha stated the same thing, and the objective of both Advaita Vedanta and Buddhism are to realize that you have been living in a dream and not produce anymore dream after death. what effects the collective consciousnesspool is not what you dream after death,but what you put in there: into the indra's net while you are alivebecause whats in there will manifestbut it is not tied to "A" person it usa flow and a musical chair thingy out of this pool manifestations happenthat is why the ethics while aliveis most important: what you put in there, including your wants and hidden dreams all has to be clean, because it will manifest> Past lives are real. As real as the clouds in the sky, or these letters here. It all just happens within Consciousness.> May all be freed from samsara.> Fredas real as an other part of an illusion made up by the mind > > Re: deep sleep?/this went into synchronicity> > > > >F: My teacher once told me. "Illumination is deep sleep".I> > answered, can there be full consciousness while there is deep> sleep?"> > He said "Full consciousness is deep sleep, only the background> > remains, which is consciousness. One may remain working with mind> but> > not identified with it as people usually are."exactly, so why didn't you listen to him ?> >> Harsha: > > > > The light of the Self is always there as It Self, as pure> > > consciousness.> > > >> > > > Fully awake, it is the nature of freedom.> > > >> > > > How brightly the light of the Self is reflected depends on> the> > > purity of> > > > the mind, and the subtlety of the intellect.> > > >> > > > A mind that is more or less unconscious during the awake> state> > will> > > be> > > > so in sleep as well and lie merged in the Self.> > > >> > > > Coming out of the Self, it is still the same mind.> > > >> > > > A mind that is becoming pure and aware has the possibility> of> > > entering> > > > the deep sleep state while conscious.> > > >> > > > That is Nirvikalpa Samadhi. Coming out, it is still the same> > mind,> > > but> > > > the Self recognizes It Self even in the presence of the mind.> > > >> > > > That is why aham Brahm Asmi (I Am the Self) is one of the> > > Mahavakyas.> > > >> > > > Sri Ramana has pointed out that deep sleep must be> experience> > while> > > > awake. The Realization is that that the Same Self is present> in> > all> > > states.> > > >> > > > Only, the Self is experienced in its fullness if one enters> the> > > sleep> > > > while awake.> > > >> > > > As long as the latent tendencies are strong, Self remains> > covered> > > to> > > > some degree in association with the mind.> > > >> > > > Self never fully loses sight of itself, its nature being> that> > of> > > Pure> > > > Self-Sight. It Sees Only It Self..> > >> > > Hi Harsha:> > >> > >B G.: I was glad to read this. Your insight seemed pointed at me as> I> > was> > > pondering this question of deepsleep yesterday.> > >> > > In a conversation last week with a fellow named Sandeep about> > > discrimination he mentioned something about 'Bobby's World'> > > disappearing in deep sleep and I remembered this staying awake> > > while the mind was stilled.> > Era:> I see sooo many dearones go to lala-land at this point: to belive> that they reincarnate like a clone into the next life and than the> next; some even recall who they were in a previous life, pathetic!> we resonate with an essence familiar to us at the most, as did> Buddha recognise his previous self's> essence <---!> > there are only essences held by and> essences getting slowly refined> by living organisms> it is so simple> all life depends on on life-force, on god-force, its present in> every living thing and in deep sleep its not aberrated by the small> self: its pure: one can say its pure *Consciousness> love, Era> > >> > B: The faculty of discrimination being active in a sense, in> > > discrimination between the Self and not-Self, seems to see> > > thoughts> > > and discard the involvement in them.> > >> > > I was wondering if you had any further insight about this.> > >> > > I hope you and yours are well by the way.> > >> ==============================> > > > SG: really many children have very valid past life recall......> > > who says anyone is like a clone ? i have past life> > > knowledge which was quite instrumental in understanding what> > > was being played out within this one and why ......> >> > E: yes, that can be useful for processing> >> >> > I hate to tell you this, but all these> > holy expenses awakening visions are> > created> > by the mind> >> > in other words by Lucifer> >> > ***mind is the Lucifer the apple we> > should not have> >> > to derail us to test us and to keep the> > gate toward god clean> >> > some are kept up by great spiritual> > sages and mystics, the Bardo belongs> > to these also> >> > ETHICS!!!!!!> >> > because STRAIGHT is the way and> > NARROW the gate what leads to god [life]> >> >> > all the inner plane holy visions and> > and glimpses, experiences> > belong among these> >> > above the supracausal plane, where> > the god planes start, there is a final> > gate to go through it mind must be left> > behind> >> > it can NOT go there, very very few have> > the courage to trough that one because> > it literally feels like death> >> > and that meditation is storyless> >> > monks who went trough recognise> > each other but has no story to share> > just a consciousness an understanding> >> > > past life experience ?> > >> >> > E: -- are mindgames or processing the 'story'> >> > but NOT from god> >> > plus wants are a no no only without wanting innocent like a child can pass into the god> > planes> >> >> > >> > > E:> > there are only essences held by and> > > > essences getting slowly refined> > >> > > > by living organisms> > >> > > > it is so simple> > >> > just to have the RIGHT VIEW> >> > and the right ETHICS> > do not want "IT" for yourself> >> > >SG: the essence is always pure> >> >> >> >> > E: no, still its "personalised' its not> >> >> -- all life depends on on life-force, on god-force, its present in> > > > every living thing and in deep sleep its not aberrated by the> > > small self: its pure: one can say its pure *Consciousness> > >> but that state can not be held in waking a state> >> > even Sri Ramana could not hold this> > motionless samadhi where he had to> > be taken care of by others> >> the difference between deep sleep and> deep meditation lies from where one> exist the body; in deep sleep mostly> through the hara> that is why siting is stressed for meditation its better to stoop forward> than fall back, there is a geometry involved > what makes the crown or thirdeye exit> easier> > Era> > ps: since this subject appers at > many forums I think the universe wnats> us to work on it> > > > > "Love itself is the actual form of God."> > Sri Ramana/join "Love itself is the actual form of God."Sri RamanaIn "Letters from Sri Ramanasramam" by Suri Nagamma Terms of Service. 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Guest guest Posted November 14, 2003 Report Share Posted November 14, 2003 > > > hi Frederico, > > > > > > > > > "Frederico S. Gonzales" <fsg@s...> wrote: > > > > Hello Era, > > > > > > > > It is interesting to notice that while you discard past- > life remembrance > > > > > > > > > is a thought springing from the mind > > > > > > not real > > > > > > > > > > as "pathetic", you seem to have some kind of adoration for a > pseudo-science that uses such cool terms > as "synchronicity", "essences", which are in fact meaningless terms. not for me, its like for others a soul would be, but essence is not tide to a number 1 and can be shared > > Frederico, > > > > not to spend time, or waste any > > though around the reincarnation > > selfish thingy belongs to surrender 101 > > > > to be good in the NOW is what matters > > > > By being fully in the now, one would learn that > it encompasses all time -- past, present, and > future. oh! the holy dna of the soup of life and a Tolle fan, me too "If in truth we are not in control of ourselves, we must all return to our original essence. All of us. The humility of us all being the same sets in. And.... the shock of us all going to the same place at death. For, if you cannot judge others, you must be equal." "The Power of Now" Eckhart Tolle > > (From the book "Reincarnation 101") :-) > > xxxtg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 15, 2003 Report Share Posted November 15, 2003 Hi Frederico, > Hello Era, > > There are many approaches to past life and world views on differing schools of both Buddhism and Advaita Vedanta. > My approach is the Buddhist Cittamatrin view. The Cittamattrin view was considered heretic by most Buddhists because it gets too close to the Advaitin notion of an Atman which projects a whole Universe. > The Cittamatri states that everything springs from one's mind. The world is nothing but a residue of karmic tendencies. As to the absence of a personal self which reincarnates, the Cittamatri school states that there is no self who reincarnates, but once you start to investigate the process (which is unitary) you can trace back previous lives which you may remember. When you check to see if those persons really did exist, you may be surprised to learn that you remembered a life of a person who did exist. There are proofs that this notion is possible and supported by fact. > However, because the process is devoid of a true self (anatman) it may well be that what the person remembers is simply another event which occured in the its all in the pool of dna people working with similar essences can tune into past evenst "lived" by the same eseence Buddha also rememebred his essence only >process, to which this person now has a kind of a link of causality. > Both past lives and actual life are projections, dreams. Past lives are not fantasies of the mind when correctly remembered. They may be traced back and the persons verified -- this person existed, etc. > But, because of the nature of the process which is single and unitary, it is impossible to determine a self here or there. There are only manifestations (lives) which connect to one another. In ultimate instance, every part of the process contains every other part in potential, so every individual might be seen to be the whole of the process. This is complicated to explain. Because this process is non-dual and devoid of self, exatly, plus time and space are delusions of the humans > for example in my mind I might access information from your life. Very few people can do this of course, but it is possible because in the last instance you are contained within me as well as I am contained within you. > This is my view. > Best Regards. > Fred I think we agree a lot dear Fred yes, of course, many entertain the reincarnation notion; I also hang on to these new age ideas springing from Buddhism and Hinduism never really understood in the West -at a deeper understanding of spirituality all rigid man made mind models: TOOLS of understanding must go IT IS I THE ABSTRACT -- 'IT' can not be tied down to spoken word, one either *gets* it, or remains forever a slave to a model there are as any levels of understanding as many people are alive, plus the dead dead -the reincarnation model was misused by the orthodox religions to keep the masses in fear to behave or they will reincarnate as a dog or they have to pay in their next life *No serious mystic would answer to this question in black and white, but according to the understanding of the questionair, usually they will say: 'if you belive in reincarnation than there is one, if you belive there is non than there is non" as I just para- phrased Sri Ramana's words If you pay close attention they all say life IS god-power sustained life and in is in all things at a various level of consciousness AND THAT IS ALL ---that is reality god-power or the life-force is not bound by "A" one its rather randomly shines through all life love, Era > > Hello Era, > > > > It is interesting to notice that while you discard past-life remembrance > > > is a thought springing from the mind > > not real > > > > as "pathetic", you seem to have some kind of adoration for a pseudo-science that uses such cool terms as "synchronicity", "essences", which are in fact meaningless terms. > > I would recommend you read Sri Maharshi's booklet entitled Who Am I ? and the one called Spiritual Instruction. > > He clearly states in these books that the Universe is a mere illusion. It has no substance or reality of itself, independent from the subject which is experiencing it. There is not such a thing as "The Universe", "Essence". Sri Maharshi and others clearly state that there is only one thing which is subjective experience of the same nature of a dream. Each life is another dream created by the illusion of a separate entity. > > yes > > > > When this illusion vanishes, there is Nirvikalpa Samadhi and no more dream after death. > > > the person who reached Nirvikalpa > samadhi: thus was able to do away with > his small self did a good job > > after death the God-power remains > > and person is no more > > life however goes on > > > > No more subject-object play. > > The Buddha stated the same thing, and the objective of both Advaita Vedanta and Buddhism are to realize that you have been living in a dream and not produce anymore dream after death. > > > what effects the collective consciousness > pool is not what you dream after death, > but what you put in there: into the > indra's net while you are alive > > because whats in there will manifest > > but it is not tied to "A" person it us > a flow and a musical chair thingy > out of this pool manifestations happen > > that is why the ethics while alive > is most important: what you put in > there, including your wants and hidden > dreams all has to be clean, because it > will manifest > > > > Past lives are real. As real as the clouds in the sky, or these letters here. It all just happens within Consciousness. > > May all be freed from samsara. > > Fred > > > as real as an other part of an > illusion made up by the mind > > > > > > > > Re: deep sleep?/this went into synchronicity > > > > > > > >F: My teacher once told me. "Illumination is deep sleep".I > > > answered, can there be full consciousness while there is deep > > sleep?" > > > He said "Full consciousness is deep sleep, only the background > > > remains, which is consciousness. One may remain working with mind > > but > > > not identified with it as people usually are." > > > exactly, so why didn't you listen to him ? > > > > > > > Harsha: > > > > > The light of the Self is always there as It Self, as pure > > > > consciousness. > > > > > > > > > > Fully awake, it is the nature of freedom. > > > > > > > > > > How brightly the light of the Self is reflected depends on > > the > > > > purity of > > > > > the mind, and the subtlety of the intellect. > > > > > > > > > > A mind that is more or less unconscious during the awake > > state > > > will > > > > be > > > > > so in sleep as well and lie merged in the Self. > > > > > > > > > > Coming out of the Self, it is still the same mind. > > > > > > > > > > A mind that is becoming pure and aware has the possibility > > of > > > > entering > > > > > the deep sleep state while conscious. > > > > > > > > > > That is Nirvikalpa Samadhi. Coming out, it is still the same > > > mind, > > > > but > > > > > the Self recognizes It Self even in the presence of the mind. > > > > > > > > > > That is why aham Brahm Asmi (I Am the Self) is one of the > > > > Mahavakyas. > > > > > > > > > > Sri Ramana has pointed out that deep sleep must be > > experience > > > while > > > > > awake. The Realization is that that the Same Self is present > > in > > > all > > > > states. > > > > > > > > > > Only, the Self is experienced in its fullness if one enters > > the > > > > sleep > > > > > while awake. > > > > > > > > > > As long as the latent tendencies are strong, Self remains > > > covered > > > > to > > > > > some degree in association with the mind. > > > > > > > > > > Self never fully loses sight of itself, its nature being > > that > > > of > > > > Pure > > > > > Self-Sight. It Sees Only It Self.. > > > > > > > > Hi Harsha: > > > > > > > >B G.: I was glad to read this. Your insight seemed pointed at me as > > I > > > was > > > > pondering this question of deepsleep yesterday. > > > > > > > > In a conversation last week with a fellow named Sandeep about > > > > discrimination he mentioned something about 'Bobby's World' > > > > disappearing in deep sleep and I remembered this staying awake > > > > while the mind was stilled. > > > > Era: > > I see sooo many dearones go to lala-land at this point: to belive > > that they reincarnate like a clone into the next life and than the > > next; some even recall who they were in a previous life, pathetic! > > we resonate with an essence familiar to us at the most, as did > > Buddha recognise his previous self's > > essence <---! > > > > there are only essences held by and > > essences getting slowly refined > > by living organisms > > it is so simple > > all life depends on on life-force, on god-force, its present in > > every living thing and in deep sleep its not aberrated by the small > > self: its pure: one can say its pure *Consciousness > > love, Era > > > > > > > > B: The faculty of discrimination being active in a sense, in > > > > discrimination between the Self and not-Self, seems to see > > > > thoughts > > > > and discard the involvement in them. > > > > > > > > I was wondering if you had any further insight about this. > > > > > > > > I hope you and yours are well by the way. > > > > > > ============================== > > > > > > SG: really many children have very valid past life recall...... > > > > who says anyone is like a clone ? i have past life > > > > knowledge which was quite instrumental in understanding what > > > > was being played out within this one and why ...... > > > > > > E: yes, that can be useful for processing > > > > > > > > > I hate to tell you this, but all these > > > holy expenses awakening visions are > > > created > > > by the mind > > > > > > in other words by Lucifer > > > > > > ***mind is the Lucifer the apple we > > > should not have > > > > > > to derail us to test us and to keep the > > > gate toward god clean > > > > > > some are kept up by great spiritual > > > sages and mystics, the Bardo belongs > > > to these also > > > > > > ETHICS!!!!!! > > > > > > because STRAIGHT is the way and > > > NARROW the gate what leads to god [life] > > > > > > > > > all the inner plane holy visions and > > > and glimpses, experiences > > > belong among these > > > > > > above the supracausal plane, where > > > the god planes start, there is a final > > > gate to go through it mind must be left > > > behind > > > > > > it can NOT go there, very very few have > > > the courage to trough that one because > > > it literally feels like death > > > > > > and that meditation is storyless > > > > > > monks who went trough recognise > > > each other but has no story to share > > > just a consciousness an understanding > > > > > > > past life experience ? > > > > > > > > > > E: -- are mindgames or processing the 'story' > > > > > > but NOT from god > > > > > > plus wants are a no no only without wanting innocent like a child can pass into the god > > > planes > > > > > > > > > > > > > > E: > > > there are only essences held by and > > > > > essences getting slowly refined > > > > > > > > > by living organisms > > > > > > > > > it is so simple > > > > > > > just to have the RIGHT VIEW > > > > > > and the right ETHICS > > > > do not want "IT" for yourself > > > > > > >SG: the essence is always pure > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > E: no, still its "personalised' its not > > > > > > > > -- all life depends on on life-force, on god-force, its present in > > > > > every living thing and in deep sleep its not aberrated by the > > > > small self: its pure: one can say its pure *Consciousness > > > > > > but that state can not be held in waking a state > > > > > > even Sri Ramana could not hold this > > > motionless samadhi where he had to > > > be taken care of by others > > > > > the difference between deep sleep and > > deep meditation lies from where one > > exist the body; in deep sleep mostly > > through the hara > > that is why siting is stressed for meditation its better to stoop forward > > than fall back, there is a geometry involved > > what makes the crown or thirdeye exit > > easier > > > > Era > > > > ps: since this subject appers at > > many forums I think the universe wnats > > us to work on it > > > > > > > > > > "Love itself is the actual form of God." > > > > Sri Ramana > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 17, 2003 Report Share Posted November 17, 2003 Hi Era, Well from your points of view I can say I agree with most of what you say. And it's nice to be able to exchange ideas with people who have open minds such as yours. In the past years I have been studying and investigating various modes of interpretation of reality. I tend not to see things from a purely physical point of view because after all, DNA does exist, but where is it? Where is the DNA without the consciousness to perceive it? So all is contained within Consciousness. The idea itself of an "outside" does not apply on a non-dual level, because there is no outside or inside in Consciousness. Now, I agree with you on that time and space are illusions, or, they only exist in Consciousness, in relative terms. The thing about past lives is in my opinion one way to suggest infinity. There is no beggining or end. my best regards, fred - Era Saturday, November 15, 2003 5:13 PM Re: deep sleep?/this went into synchronicity Hi Frederico,> Hello Era,> > There are many approaches to past life and world views on differing schools of both Buddhism and Advaita Vedanta. > My approach is the Buddhist Cittamatrin view. The Cittamattrin view was considered heretic by most Buddhists because it gets too close to the Advaitin notion of an Atman which projects a whole Universe. > The Cittamatri states that everything springs from one's mind. The world is nothing but a residue of karmic tendencies. As to the absence of a personal self which reincarnates, the Cittamatri school states that there is no self who reincarnates, but once you start to investigate the process (which is unitary) you can trace back previous lives which you may remember. When you check to see if those persons really did exist, you may be surprised to learn that you remembered a life of a person who did exist. There are proofs that this notion is possible and supported by fact. > However, because the process is devoid of a true self (anatman) it may well be that what the person remembers is simply another event which occured in the its all in the pool of dnapeople working with similar essencescan tune into past evenst "lived" by the same eseenceBuddha also rememebred his essence only>process, to which this person now has a kind of a link of causality. > Both past lives and actual life are projections, dreams. Past lives are not fantasies of the mind when correctly remembered. They may be traced back and the persons verified -- this person existed, etc. > But, because of the nature of the process which is single and unitary, it is impossible to determine a self here or there. There are only manifestations (lives) which connect to one another. In ultimate instance, every part of the process contains every other part in potential, so every individual might be seen to be the whole of the process. This is complicated to explain. Because this process is non-dual and devoid of self, exatly, plus time and space are delusions of the humans> for example in my mind I might access information from your life. Very few people can do this of course, but it is possible because in the last instance you are contained within me as well as I am contained within you.> This is my view. > Best Regards.> FredI think we agree a lot dear Fredyes, of course, many entertain the reincarnation notion; I also hang on to these new age ideas springing from Buddhism and Hinduism never really understood in the West-at a deeper understanding of spiritualityall rigid man made mind models: TOOLS of understanding must go IT IS I THE ABSTRACT -- 'IT' can notbe tied down to spoken word, one either *gets* it, or remains forevera slave to a modelthere are as any levels of understandingas many people are alive, plus the dead dead-the reincarnation model was misusedby the orthodox religions to keep themasses in fear to behave or they will reincarnate as a dog or they have to pay in their next life*No serious mystic would answer to thisquestion in black and white, but according to the understanding of thequestionair, usually they will say: 'if you belive in reincarnation than there is one, if you belive there is non than there is non" as I just para- phrased Sri Ramana's wordsIf you pay close attention they all say life IS god-power sustained life and in is in all things at a various level of consciousnessAND THAT IS ALL ---that is reality god-power or the life-force is not bound by "A" one its rather randomly shines through alllife love, Era> > Hello Era,> > > > It is interesting to notice that while you discard past-life remembrance> > > is a thought springing from the mind> > not real> > > > as "pathetic", you seem to have some kind of adoration for a pseudo-science that uses such cool terms as "synchronicity", "essences", which are in fact meaningless terms. > > I would recommend you read Sri Maharshi's booklet entitled Who Am I ? and the one called Spiritual Instruction. > > He clearly states in these books that the Universe is a mere illusion. It has no substance or reality of itself, independent from the subject which is experiencing it. There is not such a thing as "The Universe", "Essence". Sri Maharshi and others clearly state that there is only one thing which is subjective experience of the same nature of a dream. Each life is another dream created by the illusion of a separate entity. > > yes> > > > When this illusion vanishes, there is Nirvikalpa Samadhi and no more dream after death. > > > the person who reached Nirvikalpa> samadhi: thus was able to do away with> his small self did a good job> > after death the God-power remains> > and person is no more> > life however goes on> > > > No more subject-object play.> > The Buddha stated the same thing, and the objective of both Advaita Vedanta and Buddhism are to realize that you have been living in a dream and not produce anymore dream after death. > > > what effects the collective consciousness> pool is not what you dream after death,> but what you put in there: into the > indra's net while you are alive> > because whats in there will manifest> > but it is not tied to "A" person it us> a flow and a musical chair thingy > out of this pool manifestations happen> > that is why the ethics while alive> is most important: what you put in > there, including your wants and hidden > dreams all has to be clean, because it > will manifest> > > > Past lives are real. As real as the clouds in the sky, or these letters here. It all just happens within Consciousness.> > May all be freed from samsara.> > Fred> > > as real as an other part of an > illusion made up by the mind > > > > > > > > Re: deep sleep?/this went into synchronicity> > > > > > > >F: My teacher once told me. "Illumination is deep sleep".I> > > answered, can there be full consciousness while there is deep> > sleep?"> > > He said "Full consciousness is deep sleep, only the background> > > remains, which is consciousness. One may remain working with mind> > but> > > not identified with it as people usually are."> > > exactly, so why didn't you listen to him ?> > > > >> > Harsha: > > > > > The light of the Self is always there as It Self, as pure> > > > consciousness.> > > > >> > > > > Fully awake, it is the nature of freedom.> > > > >> > > > > How brightly the light of the Self is reflected depends on> > the> > > > purity of> > > > > the mind, and the subtlety of the intellect.> > > > >> > > > > A mind that is more or less unconscious during the awake> > state> > > will> > > > be> > > > > so in sleep as well and lie merged in the Self.> > > > >> > > > > Coming out of the Self, it is still the same mind.> > > > >> > > > > A mind that is becoming pure and aware has the possibility> > of> > > > entering> > > > > the deep sleep state while conscious.> > > > >> > > > > That is Nirvikalpa Samadhi. Coming out, it is still the same> > > mind,> > > > but> > > > > the Self recognizes It Self even in the presence of the mind.> > > > >> > > > > That is why aham Brahm Asmi (I Am the Self) is one of the> > > > Mahavakyas.> > > > >> > > > > Sri Ramana has pointed out that deep sleep must be> > experience> > > while> > > > > awake. The Realization is that that the Same Self is present> > in> > > all> > > > states.> > > > >> > > > > Only, the Self is experienced in its fullness if one enters> > the> > > > sleep> > > > > while awake.> > > > >> > > > > As long as the latent tendencies are strong, Self remains> > > covered> > > > to> > > > > some degree in association with the mind.> > > > >> > > > > Self never fully loses sight of itself, its nature being> > that> > > of> > > > Pure> > > > > Self-Sight. It Sees Only It Self..> > > >> > > > Hi Harsha:> > > >> > > >B G.: I was glad to read this. Your insight seemed pointed at me as> > I> > > was> > > > pondering this question of deepsleep yesterday.> > > >> > > > In a conversation last week with a fellow named Sandeep about> > > > discrimination he mentioned something about 'Bobby's World'> > > > disappearing in deep sleep and I remembered this staying awake> > > > while the mind was stilled.> > > > Era:> > I see sooo many dearones go to lala-land at this point: to belive> > that they reincarnate like a clone into the next life and than the> > next; some even recall who they were in a previous life, pathetic!> > we resonate with an essence familiar to us at the most, as did> > Buddha recognise his previous self's> > essence <---!> > > > there are only essences held by and> > essences getting slowly refined> > by living organisms> > it is so simple> > all life depends on on life-force, on god-force, its present in> > every living thing and in deep sleep its not aberrated by the small> > self: its pure: one can say its pure *Consciousness> > love, Era> > > >> > > > B: The faculty of discrimination being active in a sense, in> > > > discrimination between the Self and not-Self, seems to see> > > > thoughts> > > > and discard the involvement in them.> > > >> > > > I was wondering if you had any further insight about this.> > > >> > > > I hope you and yours are well by the way.> > > >> > ==============================> > > > > > SG: really many children have very valid past life recall......> > > > who says anyone is like a clone ? i have past life> > > > knowledge which was quite instrumental in understanding what> > > > was being played out within this one and why ......> > >> > > E: yes, that can be useful for processing> > >> > >> > > I hate to tell you this, but all these> > > holy expenses awakening visions are> > > created> > > by the mind> > >> > > in other words by Lucifer> > >> > > ***mind is the Lucifer the apple we> > > should not have> > >> > > to derail us to test us and to keep the> > > gate toward god clean> > >> > > some are kept up by great spiritual> > > sages and mystics, the Bardo belongs> > > to these also> > >> > > ETHICS!!!!!!> > >> > > because STRAIGHT is the way and> > > NARROW the gate what leads to god [life]> > >> > >> > > all the inner plane holy visions and> > > and glimpses, experiences> > > belong among these> > >> > > above the supracausal plane, where> > > the god planes start, there is a final> > > gate to go through it mind must be left> > > behind> > >> > > it can NOT go there, very very few have> > > the courage to trough that one because> > > it literally feels like death> > >> > > and that meditation is storyless> > >> > > monks who went trough recognise> > > each other but has no story to share> > > just a consciousness an understanding> > >> > > > past life experience ?> > > >> > >> > > E: -- are mindgames or processing the 'story'> > >> > > but NOT from god> > >> > > plus wants are a no no only without wanting innocent like a child can pass into the god> > > planes> > >> > >> > > >> > > > E:> > > there are only essences held by and> > > > > essences getting slowly refined> > > >> > > > > by living organisms> > > >> > > > > it is so simple> > > >> > > just to have the RIGHT VIEW> > >> > > and the right ETHICS> > > > do not want "IT" for yourself> > >> > > >SG: the essence is always pure> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > E: no, still its "personalised' its not> > >> > >> > -- all life depends on on life-force, on god-force, its present in> > > > > every living thing and in deep sleep its not aberrated by the> > > > small self: its pure: one can say its pure *Consciousness> > > >> > but that state can not be held in waking a state> > >> > > even Sri Ramana could not hold this> > > motionless samadhi where he had to> > > be taken care of by others> > >> > the difference between deep sleep and> > deep meditation lies from where one> > exist the body; in deep sleep mostly> > through the hara> > that is why siting is stressed for meditation its better to stoop forward> > than fall back, there is a geometry involved > > what makes the crown or thirdeye exit> > easier> > > > Era> > > > ps: since this subject appers at > > many forums I think the universe wnats> > us to work on it> > > > > > > > > > "Love itself is the actual form of God."> > > > Sri Ramana> /join "Love itself is the actual form of God."Sri RamanaIn "Letters from Sri Ramanasramam" by Suri Nagamma Your use of is subject to the Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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