Re:this went into synchronicity/holographic state

November 15, 2003

<past-life remembrance is a thought springing from the mind not real>

> > not to spend time, or waste any

> > though around the reincarnation

> > selfish thingy belongs to surrender 101

> >

> > to be good in the NOW is what matters

>

> By being fully in the now, one would learn that

> it encompasses all time -- past, present, and

> future.

>

> (From the book "Reincarnation 101") :-)

>

> xxxtg

exatly!

I think Grof also works with a model wqhich is void of

reincarnation, but with the pool of collective unconscious from

where each one of is born with with genetic memory,

am I all alone at this forum with this?

Psychology of the Future: Lessons from Modern Consciousness Research

Grof, Stanislava

More than forty years ago, a powerful experience lasting only

several hours of clock-time profoundly changed my personal and

professional life. As a young psychiatric resident, only a few

months after my graduation from medical school, I volunteered for an

experiment with LSD, a substance with remarkable psychoactive

properties that had been discovered by the Swiss chemist Albert

Hofmann in the Sandoz pharmaceutical laboratories in Basel.

This session, particularly its culmination period during which I had

an overwhelming and indescribable experience of cosmic

consciousness, awakened in me an intense lifelong interest in

nonordinary states of consciousness. Since that time, most of my

clinical and research activities have consisted of systematic

exploration of the therapeutic, transformative, and evolutionary

potential of these states. The four decades that I have dedicated to

consciousness research have been for me an extraordinary adventure

of discovery and self-discovery. (page ix)

This book is an attempt to point out in a systematic and

comprehensive way the areas that require a radical revision and to

suggest the direction and nature of the necessary changes. The

conceptual challenges presented by consciousness research are very

fundamental and cannot be resolved by a minor conceptual patchwork

of a few ad hoc hypotheses. In my opinion, the nature and scope of

the conceptual crisis facing psychology and psychiatry is comparable

to the situation introduced at the beginning of the twentieth

century into physics by the results of the Michelson-Morley

experiment. (page xi)

The observations from holotropic states seriously undermine the

fundamental cornerstone of materialistic thinking, the belief in the

primacy of matter and in the absence of the spiritual dimension in

the fabric of existence. They bring direct experiential and

empirical evidence that spirituality is a critical and legitimate

attribute of the human psyche and of the universal scheme of things.

This important topic is given special attention in the book. It is

argued that, properly understood, spirituality and science are not

and cannot be in conflict, but represent two complementary

approaches to existence. (page xii)

Chapter 1. Healing and Heuristic Potential of Nonordinary States of

Consciousness

Forty years of intensive and systematic research of holotropic

states of consciousness led me to the conclusion that radical inner

transformation of humanity and rise to a higher level of

consciousness might be our only real hope for the future. I would

like to believe that those who are about to embark on the inner

journey, or are traveling it already, will find this book and the

information presented in it to be useful companions in this

challenging adventure. (page xiii)

In this book, I will focus on a large and important subgroup of non-

ordinary states of consciousness which significantly differ from the

rest and represent an invaluable source of new information about the

human psyche in health and disease. They also have a remarkable

therapeutic and transformative potential. Over the years, daily

clinical observations convinced me about the extraordinary nature of

these experiences and about the far-reaching implications they have

for the theory and practice of psychiatry. I found it difficult to

believe that contemporary psychiatry does not recognize their

specific features and does not have a special name for them.

Because I feel strongly that they deserve to be distinguished from

the rest and placed into a special category, I have coined for them

the name holotropic. This composite word literally means "oriented

toward wholeness" or "moving in the direction of wholeness" (from

the Greek holos = whole and trepein = moving toward or in the

direction of something). The full meaning of this term and the

justification for its use will become clear later in this book. It

suggests that in our everyday state of consciousness we identify

with only a small fraction of who we already are. In holotropic

states, we can transcend the narrow boundaries of the body ego and

reclaim our full identity. (page 2)

In spite of overwhelming evidence to the contrary, mainstream

psychiatrists continue to view all holotropic states of

consciousness as pathological, disregard the information generated

in researching them, and do not distinguish between mystical states

and psychosis. They also continue using various pharmacological

means to suppress indiscriminately all spontaneously occurring

nonordinary states of consciousness. It is remarkable to what extent

mainstream science has ignored, distorted, and misinterpreted all

the evidence concerning holotropic states, whether their source has

been historical study, comparative religion, anthropology, or

various areas of modern consciousness research, such as

parapsychology, psychedelic therapy, experiential psychotherapies,

hypnosis, thanatology, or work with laboratory mind-altering

techniques.

The rigidity with which mainstream scientists have dealt with the

information amassed by all these disciplines is something that one

would expect from religious fundamentalists. It is very surprising

when such attitude occurs in the world of science, since it is

contrary to the very spirit of scientific inquiry. More than four

decades that I have spent in consciousness research have convinced

me that serious examination of the data from the study of holotropic

states would have far-reaching consequences not only for the theory

and practice of psychiatry, but for the Western scientific

worldview. The only way modern science can preserve its monistic

materialistic philosophy is by systematically excluding and

censoring all the data concerning holotropic states. (page 16)

Chapter Six: Spirituality and Religion

To prevent misunderstanding and confusion that in past compromised

many similar discussions, it is critical to make a clear distinction

between spirituality and religion. Spirituality is based on direct

experiences of nonordinary aspects and dimensions of reality. It

does not require a special place or an officially appointed person

mediating contact with the divine. The mystics do not need churches

or temples. The context in which they experience the sacred

dimensions of reality, including their own divinity, are their

bodies and nature. And instead of officiating priests, they need a

supportive group of fellow seekers or the guidance of a teacher who

is more advanced on the inner journey than they are themselves.

Direct spiritual experiences appear in two different forms. The

first of these, the experience of the immanent divine, involves

subtly, but profoundly transformed perception of the everyday

reality. A person having this form of spiritual experience sees

people, animals, and the inanimate objects in the environment as

radiant manifestations of a unified field of cosmic creative energy

and realizes that the boundaries between them are illusory and

unreal. This is a direct experience of nature as god, Spinoza's deus

sive natura. Using the analogy with television, this experience

could be likened to a situation where a black and white picture

would suddenly change into one in vivid "living color." In both

cases, much of the old perception of the world remains in place, but

is radically redefined by the addiction of a new dimension.

The second form of spiritual experience, that of the transcendent

divine, involves manifestation of archetypal beings and realms of

reality that are ordinarily transphenomenal, unavailable to

perception in the everyday state of consciousness. In this type of

spiritual experience, entirely new elements seem to "unfold"

or "explicate," to borrow terms from David Bohm, from another level

of order of reality. When we return to the analogy with television,

this would be like discovering that there exist channels other than

the one we have previously been watching. (pages 210-211)

Spirituality involves a special kind of relationship between the

individual and the cosmos and is, in its essence, a personal and

private affair. By comparison, organized religion is

institutionalized group activity that takes place in a designated

location, a temple or a church, and involves a system of appointed

officials who might or might not have had personal experiences of

spiritual realities. ...

Brother Steindl-Rast, a Benedictine monk and Christian philosopher,

uses a beautiful metaphor to illustrate this situation. He compares

the original mystical experience to the glowing magma of an

exploding volcano, which is exciting, dynamic, and alive. After we

have this experience, we feel the need to put it into a conceptual

framework and formulate a doctrine. The mystical state represents a

precious memory and we might create a ritual that will remind us of

this momentous event. The experience connects us with the cosmic

order and this has profound direct impact on our ethics - system of

values, moral standards, and behavior. (page 211)

In visionary states, the experiences of other realities or of new

perspectives on our everyday reality are so convincing and

compelling that the individuals who have had them have no other

choice than to incorporate them into their worldview. It is thus

systematic experiential exposure to holotropic states of

consciousness, on the one side, and the absence thereof, on the

other, that sets the native cultures and technological societies

ideologically so far apart. I have not yet met a single European,

American, or member of one of the other technologized societies, who

has had a deep experience of the transcendental realms and continues

to to the worldview of Western materialistic science. This

development is quite independent of the level of intelligence, type

and degree of education, or professional credentials of the

individuals involved. (page 218)

Chapter Seven. The Experience of Death and Dying: Psychological,

Philosophical, and Spiritual Perspectives.

Conversely, it became clear that experiential confrontation with

death in the course of therapy has important healing,

transformative, and evolutionary potential. This research also

revealed that the attitude toward death and coming to terms with it

has important implications for the quality of one's life, hierarchy

of values, and strategy of existence. Experiential encounter with

death, whether it is symbolic (in meditation, psychedelic sessions,

spiritual emergency, or holotropic breathwork) or real (in an

accident, in war, in a concentration camp, or during a heart attack)

can lead to a powerful spiritual opening. (page 220)

.... Modern consciousness research has thus shown that the ancient

eschatological texts are actually maps of the inner territories of

the psyche encountered in profound holotropic states, including

those associated with biological dying.

It is possible to spend one's entire lifetime without ever

experiencing these realms or even being aware of their existence,

until one is catapulted into them at the time of biological death.

However, some people are able to explore this experiential territory

while they are still alive. Among the tools that make this possible

are psychedelic substances, powerful forms of experiential

psychotherapy, serious spiritual practice, and participation in

shamanic rituals. For many people, similar experiences occur

spontaneously, without any known triggers, during psychospiritual

crises (spiritual emergencies).

All these situations offer the possibility of deep experiential

exploration of the inner territories of the psyche at a time when we

are healthy and strong, so that the encounter with death does not

come as a complete surprise at the time of biological demise. The

seventeenth-century German Augustinian monk, Abraham of Santa Clara,

expressed in a succinct way the importance of the experiential

practice of dying: "The man who dies before he dies does not die

when he dies."

This "dying before dying" has two important consequences: It

liberates us from the fear of death and changes our attitude toward

it. This eases considerably our experience of actually leaving the

body at the time of our biological demise. At the same time, the

elimination of the fear of death also transforms our way of being in

the world. There is thus no fundamental difference between

preparation for death and the practice of dying, on the one hand,

and spiritual practice leading to enlightenment, on the other. For

this reason, the ancient books of the dead could be used in both

situations (pages 228-229)

Psychedelic Therapy in Patients with Terminal Diseases

In the late 1960s and early 1970s, I had the privilege to

participate for several years in a research program of psychedelic

psychotherapy for terminal cancer patients, which was without a

doubt the most radical and interesting attempt to alleviate the

suffering of patients with incurable diseases and transform their

experience of dying. It was one of the most moving experiences of my

life to see how the attitude toward death and the experience of

dying of many terminal cancer patients was transformed by profound

mystical experiences in psychedelic sessions. (page 248)

The most important and striking effect of LSD in terminal cancer

patients was a profound change in the concept of death. Deep

experiences of psychospiritual death and rebirth, cosmic unity, past-

life memories, and other transpersonal forms of consciousness seem

to render physical death much less frightening. The fact that these

experiences occur in a complex psychospiritual, mythological, and

philosophical context cannot be dismissed as momentary delusional

self-deception resulting from impaired brain functioning.

Psychedelic experiences that reach the perinatal and transpersonal

level also typically have profound effect on the patients' hierarchy

of values and life strategy. Psychological acceptance of

impermanence and death results in realization of the futility and

absurdity of grandiose ambitions and attachment to money, status,

fame, and power, as well as pursuit of other temporary values. This

makes it easier to face the termination of one's secular goals and

the impending loss of all worldly possessions. Another important

shift occurs in time orientation; the past and future become much

less important than the present moment and "living one day at a

time."

This is associated with increased zest, as well as a tendency to

appreciate and enjoy every moment of life, and to derive pleasure

from simple things like nature, food, sex, music, and human company.

There is also typically a major increase in spirituality of a

mystical, universal, and ecumenical nature, which is not related to

any specific church affiliation. We have also seen instances where a

dying individual's traditional religious beliefs were illuminated by

new dimensions of meaning. (pages 255-256)

Chapter Eight. The Cosmic Game: Exploration of the Furthest Reaches

of Human Consciousness

The preceding chapters of this book focused primarily on the

implications of the research of holotropic states of consciousness

for psychiatry, psychology, and psychotherapy. However, this work

also generates many interesting philosophical, metaphysical, and

spiritual insights. Irrespective of the initial motivation of the

person involved and his or her background, systematic disciplined

self-exploration using holotropic states in a good set and setting

sooner or later tends to take the form of a deep philosophical and

spiritual quest. I have seen on numerous occasions that people whose

primary interest in psychedelic sessions or in the holotropic

breathwork was therapeutic, professional, or artistic, suddenly

started asking the most fundamental questions about existence when

their inner process reached the transpersonal level. (page 269)

The Ensouled Nature and the Archetypal Domain

If we feel embarrassed by our discovery, we might prefer to use

modern terminology such as numinous instead of sacred and archetypal

figures instead of deities and demons. But we can no longer dismiss

these experiences as mere hallucinations or fantasies. Deep personal

experiences of this realm help us realize that the images of the

cosmos found in preindustrial societies are not based on

superstition, primitive "magical thinking," or psychotic visions,

but on authentic experiences of alternate realities. The research of

holotropic states has brought ample evidence that there are

transphenomenal dimensions of existence that are ontologically real

and that they often can withstand the test of consensual validation.

(page 271)

.... When we are involved in systematic self-exploration or spiritual

practice, it is important to avoid the pitfall of making a

particular deity opaque and seeing it as the ultimate cosmic force

rather than a window into the Absolute.

Mistaking a specific archetypal image for the ultimate source of

creation or for its only true representation leads to idolatry, a

divisive and dangerous mistake widespread in the histories of

religions and cultures. It might unite the people who share the same

belief, but sets this group against another one that has chosen a

different representation of the divine. They might then try to

convert others or conquer and eliminate them. By contrast, genuine

religion is universal, all-inclusive, and all-encompassing. It has

to transcend specific culture-bound archetypal images and focus on

the ultimate source of all forms. The most important question in the

world of religion is thus the nature of the supreme principle in the

universe. (page 271)

Experience of the Supreme Cosmic Principle

Individuals involved in systematic self-exploration with the use of

holotropic states repeatedly describe this process as a

philosophical and spiritual quest. This inspired me to search the

records from psychedelic and holotropic sessions, as well as reports

from people who were undergoing spiritual emergency, for experiences

that would convey the sense that his quest reached its goal, its

final destination. I found out that people who have the experience

of the Absolute that fully satisfies their spiritual longing

typically do not see any specific figurative images. When they feel

that they have attained the goal of their mystical and philosophical

quest, their descriptions of the supreme principle are highly

abstract and strikingly similar.

Those who report such an ultimate revelation show quite remarkable

agreement in describing the experiential characteristics of this

state. They report that the experience of the Supreme involved

transcendence of all the limitations of the analytical mind, all

rational categories, and all the constraints of ordinary logic. This

experience was not bound by the usual limitations of three-

dimensional space and linear time, as we know them from everyday

life. It also contained all conceivable polarities in an inseparable

amalgam and thus transcended dualities of any kind.

Time after time, people compared the Absolute to a radiant source of

light of unimaginable intensity, through they emphasized that it

also differed in some significant aspects from any form of light

that we know in the material world. To describe the Absolute as

light, as much as it seems appropriate in a certain sense, entirely

misses some of its essential characteristics, particularly in the

fact that it also is an immense and unfathomable field of

consciousness endowed with infinite intelligence and creative power.

Another attribute that is regularly mentioned is an exquisite sense

of humor ("cosmic humor").

The supreme cosmic principle can be experienced in two different

ways. Sometimes, all personal boundaries dissolve or are drastically

obliterated and we completely merge with the divine source, becoming

one with it and indistinguishable from it. Other times, we maintain

the sense of separate identity, assuming the role of an astonished

observer who is witnessing, as if from the outside, the mysterium

tremendum of existence. Or, like some mystics, we might feel the

ecstasy of an enraptured lover experiencing the encounter with the

Beloved. Spiritual literature of all ages abounds in descriptions of

both types of experiences of the divine.

The encounter with Absolute Consciousness or identification with it

is not the only way to experience the supreme principle in the

cosmos or the ultimate reality. The second type of experience that

seems to satisfy those who search for ultimate answers is

particularly surprising, since it has no specific content. It is the

identification with Cosmic Emptiness and Nothingness described in

the mystical literature as the Void. ...

When we reach experiential identification with the Absolute, we

realize that our own being is ultimately commensurate with the

entire cosmic network, with all of existence. The recognition of our

own divine nature, our identity with the cosmic source, is the most

important discovery we can make during the process of deep

exploration. ... (pages 273-276)

Chapter Nine. Consciousness Evolution and Human Survival:

Transpersonal Perspective on the Global Crisis

Psychospiritual Roots of the Global Crisis

The task of imbuing humanity with an entirely different set of

values and goals might appear too unrealistic and utopian to offer

any real hope. Considering the paramount role of violence and greed

in human history, the possibility of transforming modern humanity

into a species of individuals capable of peaceful coexistence with

their fellow men and women regardless of race, color, and religious

or political conviction, let alone with other species, certainly

does not seem very plausible. We are facing the necessity to instill

humanity with profound ethical values, sensitivity to the needs of

others, acceptance of voluntary simplicity, and a sharp awareness of

ecological imperatives. At first glance, such a task appears too

fantastic even for a science-fiction movie.

However, although serious and critical, the situation might not be

as hopeless as it appears. After more than forty years of intensive

study of holotropic states of consciousness, I have come to the

conclusion that the theoretical concepts and practical approaches

developed by transpersonal psychology, a discipline that is trying

to integrate spirituality with the new paradigm emerging in Western

science, could help alleviate the crisis we are all facing. These

observations suggest that radical psychospiritual transformation of

humanity is not only possible, but is already underway. The question

is only whether it can be sufficiently fast and extensive to reverse

the current self-destructive trend of modern humanity. (pages 296-

297)

We seem to be involved in a dramatic race for time that has no

precedent in the entire history of humanity. What is at stake is

nothing less than the future of life on this planet. If we continue

the old strategies which in their consequences are clearly extremely

self-destructive, it is unlikely that the human species will

survive. However, if a sufficient number of people undergo a process

of deep inner transformation, we might reach a level of

consciousness evolution when we deserve the proud name we have given

to species: homo sapiens. (page 324)

http://www.csp.org/chrestomathy/psychology_of-grof.html

November 16, 2003

Dear Era and ALL,

I'm not sure that I understand your question exactly

(am I all alone at this forum with this?); but if you

are asking if anyone else believes in reincartion,

then my answer is: I don't believe in it; but I don't

not believe in it either. As a matter of fact, I do

believe that I have memories of a past life; but I

don't know for certain. Since I don't know for

certain, I don't believe and neither do I not believe.

But let us suggest for a moment that reincartion is

true, then as you more or less already posted: So

what!!! As you or someone else already said: not to

spend time, or waste any though(t) SIC around the

reincarnation--selfish thingy belongs to surrender 101

Love,

michael

Protect your identity with Mail AddressGuard

http://antispam./whatsnewfree

November 16, 2003

Dear Michael,

please do not worry about reincarnation.

For me its true - because I feel it everywhere and with everything "I am".

A n d look there a scientific prove for this: hundreds of cases

proven - specially in Lebanon, in the Druse community....

B u t for "me" its not important why?

Because it does not change anything!

Our "life" gives us all "problems" every day to solve.....

Solve it in a way thats fits your inner being - and thats it....

B u t what is this inner being?

This you only can realize thru your inner feeling intuition and so on

never thru normal thinking

b u t thru higher thinking yes

intuition and "spiritual thinking"

ready for every question on your side

have a fullfilling day be content with who you are

........

hugs from another Michael

you know the real meaning of our name?

Michael from Tuscany Italy

>Michael Bowes

> >To:

>Re: Re:this

went into synchronicity/holographic state >Sun, 16 Nov 2003

07:59:40 -0800 (PST) > >Dear Era and ALL, > >I'm not sure that I

understand your question exactly >(am I all alone at this forum with

this?); but if you >are asking if anyone else believes in

reincartion, >then my answer is: I don't believe in it; but I don't

>not believe in it either. As a matter of fact, I do >believe that I

have memories of a past life; but I >don't know for certain. Since I

don't know for >certain, I don't believe and neither do I not

believe. > >But let us suggest for a moment that reincartion is

>true, then as you more or less already posted: So >what!!! As you or

someone else already said: not to >spend time, or waste any though(t)

SIC around the >reincarnation--selfish thingy belongs to surrender

101 > >Love, > >michael > > >Do you

? >Protect your identity with Mail AddressGuard

>http://antispam./whatsnewfree Tired of spam? Get advanced

junk mail protection with MSN 8.

November 26, 2003

Dear Michael,

Thank you for your comments. They are much

appreciated.

And in regard to your question about the name Michael,

I understand that it means "who is like unto God." I

know that certainly describes you and I. :-)

--- MICHAEL BINDEL <michael_bindel wrote:

Dear Michael,

please do not worry about reincarnation.

For me its true - because I feel it everywhere and

with everything "I am".

A n d look there a scientific prove for this:

hundreds of cases proven - specially in Lebanon, in

the Druse community....

B u t for "me" its not important why?

Because it does not change anything!

Our "life" gives us all "problems" every day to

solve.....

Solve it in a way thats fits your inner being - and

thats it....

B u t what is this inner being?

This you only can realize thru your inner feeling

intuition and so on

never thru normal thinking

b u t thru higher thinking yes

intuition and "spiritual thinking"

ready for every question on your side

have a fullfilling day be content with who you are

........

hugs from another Michael

you know the real meaning of our name?

Michael from Tuscany Italy

>Michael Bowes

>

>Re: Re:this went into

synchronicity/holographic state

>Sun, 16 Nov 2003 07:59:40 -0800 (PST)

>

>Dear Era and ALL,

>

>I'm not sure that I understand your question exactly

>(am I all alone at this forum with this?); but if you

>are asking if anyone else believes in reincartion,

>then my answer is: I don't believe in it; but I don't

>not believe in it either. As a matter of fact, I do

>believe that I have memories of a past life; but I

>don't know for certain. Since I don't know for

>certain, I don't believe and neither do I not

believe.

>

>But let us suggest for a moment that reincartion is

>true, then as you more or less already posted: So

>what!!! As you or someone else already said: not to

>spend time, or waste any though(t) SIC around the

>reincarnation--selfish thingy belongs to surrender

101

>

>Love,

>

>michael

>

>Protect your identity with Mail AddressGuard

>http://antispam./whatsnewfree

Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with

MSN 8.

Sponsor

/join

"Love itself is the actual form of God."

Sri Ramana

In "Letters from Sri Ramanasramam" by Suri Nagamma

Terms of Service.

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November 26, 2003

tku Michael Mi cha El who is like GD?

well done :-))))

you are always welcome

>Michael Bowes

> >To:

>Re: Re:this

went into synchronicity/holographic state >Wed, 26 Nov 2003

06:14:20 -0800 (PST) > >Dear Michael, > >Thank you for your comments.

They are much >appreciated. > >And in regard to your question about

the name Michael, >I understand that it means "who is like unto God."

I >know that certainly describes you and I. :-) > > >--- MICHAEL

BINDEL wrote: > > > > > > > >Dear

Michael, > > > >please do not worry about reincarnation. > >For me

its true - because I feel it everywhere and >with everything "I am".

> >A n d look there a scientific prove for this: >hundreds of cases

proven - specially in Lebanon, in >the Druse community.... > >B u t

for "me" its not important why? > >Because it does not change

anything! > >Our "life" gives us all "problems" every day to

>solve..... > >Solve it in a way thats fits your inner being - and

>thats it.... > >B u t what is this inner being? > > > >This you only

can realize thru your inner feeling >intuition and so on > >never thru

normal thinking > >b u t thru higher thinking yes > >intuition and

"spiritual thinking" > > > >ready for every question on your side >

>have a fullfilling day be content with who you are > >....... > > >

>hugs from another Michael > >you know the real meaning of our name?

> > > >Michael from Tuscany Italy > > > > > > > > > > >Michael

Bowes > > > >To:

> >Re:

Re:this went into >synchronicity/holographic state > >Sun, 16

Nov 2003 07:59:40 -0800 (PST) > > > >Dear Era and ALL, > > > >I'm not

sure that I understand your question exactly > >(am I all alone at

this forum with this?); but if you > > >are asking if anyone else

believes in reincartion, > >then my answer is: I don't believe in it;

but I don't > > >not believe in it either. As a matter of fact, I do >

>believe that I have memories of a past life; but I > >don't know for

certain. Since I don't know for > >certain, I don't believe and

neither do I not >believe. > > > >But let us suggest for a moment

that reincartion is > >true, then as you more or less already posted:

So > >what!!! As you or someone else already said: not to > >spend

time, or waste any though(t) SIC around the > >reincarnation--selfish

thingy belongs to surrender >101 > > > >Love, > > > >michael > > >

> > > > >Protect your

identity with Mail AddressGuard >

>http://antispam./whatsnewfree > > >

> >Tired of spam? Get advanced junk

mail protection with >MSN 8. > Sponsor >

>/join > >

> > > >"Love

itself is the actual form of God." > >Sri Ramana > >In "Letters from

Sri Ramanasramam" by Suri Nagamma > >Your use of is

subject to the >Terms of Service. > >

> > >Free Pop-Up

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December 1, 2003

I think it the unfulfilled desires that cause rebirth of a soul. I do

wish to get rid of this desire but a find it not so easy. I M running

63but still I find that my sex desire is not subsidized rather more

thoughts r prevailing upon to consumate. Can anyone guide me as to

how to overcome & get vanish this sex desire which main hurdle in my

approach/ wish to liberation.

Thanks & with regards

RN Gup[ta MICHAEL BINDEL <michael_bindel (AT) hotmail (DOT) com> wrote: