Guest guest Posted January 2, 2004 Report Share Posted January 2, 2004 For the new members: Please post directly to the group and not to the list owner. Thanks Love to all Harsha --- Warwick Wakefield <formandsubstance wrote: > Dear Friends, > > I will go straight to the heart of the matter. > > The usual first step in Advaita, as practiced by > Nisargadatta and others, is that the enquirer should > understand that he is "not the body and not the > mind", that he is, in other words, pure > consciousness. > > The second step is to understand that the objects of > consciousness, the observed body/mind and the world, > are not separate from consciousness. They are forms, > or form, taken by consciousness. Just like waves > are forms taken by the ocean. > > This is pretty straightforward; different but > straightforward. It makes no claim on the matter of > whether the objects of consciousness represent, or > are caused by, material or other objects that exist > independently of consciousness. > > The third step seems to be that all the objects of > consciousness have no existence apart from > consciousness (not apart from an individual mind, > but apart from the one-and-only, universal > consciousness). So there is no independently > -existing "stuff" or "material substance", there is > I, universal consciousness, and there are the forms > that I take, and the forms are not separate from I > but intrinsic to and inseparable from I. I create > all form, I perceive all form and I am all form. > > This has the advantage of leaving absolutely no > space for me-as-a-separate-entity, which is > wonderful, but it has the disadvantage of being > not-very-accessible as first hand experience, or > truth, or knowledge, or whatever word you want to > use for that which is first hand and not just > something that has been read about, told or > imagined. > > Now, we surely are in agreement that second-hand > knowledge is not very satisfactory. > What advice do you have about a line of enquiry that > will reveal the third step as first-hand? > > With all respect and friendship > > Warwick Wakefield > ===== /join Protect your identity with Mail AddressGuard http://antispam./whatsnewfree Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 2, 2004 Report Share Posted January 2, 2004 Hellow Warwick, You ask what would make your third step first-hand. There are three short excellent books that present things phrased in the same way as your third step. They make excellent lines of inquiry: 1. George Berkeley's _THREE DIALOGUES BETWEEN HYLAS AND PHILONOUS_ 2. Shri Atmananda's _ATMA DARSHAN_ 3. Shri Atmananda's _ATMA NIRVRITI_ --Greg >--- Warwick Wakefield <formandsubstance >wrote: >> Dear Friends, >> >> I will go straight to the heart of the matter. >> >> The usual first step in Advaita, as practiced by >> Nisargadatta and others, is that the enquirer should >> understand that he is "not the body and not the >> mind", that he is, in other words, pure >> consciousness. >> >> The second step is to understand that the objects of >> consciousness, the observed body/mind and the world, >> are not separate from consciousness. They are forms, >> or form, taken by consciousness. Just like waves >> are forms taken by the ocean. >> >> This is pretty straightforward; different but >> straightforward. It makes no claim on the matter of >> whether the objects of consciousness represent, or >> are caused by, material or other objects that exist >> independently of consciousness. >> >> The third step seems to be that all the objects of >> consciousness have no existence apart from >> consciousness (not apart from an individual mind, >> but apart from the one-and-only, universal >> consciousness). So there is no independently >> -existing "stuff" or "material substance", there is >> I, universal consciousness, and there are the forms >> that I take, and the forms are not separate from I >> but intrinsic to and inseparable from I. I create >> all form, I perceive all form and I am all form. >> >> This has the advantage of leaving absolutely no >> space for me-as-a-separate-entity, which is >> wonderful, but it has the disadvantage of being >> not-very-accessible as first hand experience, or >> truth, or knowledge, or whatever word you want to >> use for that which is first hand and not just >> something that has been read about, told or >> imagined. >> >> Now, we surely are in agreement that second-hand >> knowledge is not very satisfactory. >> What advice do you have about a line of enquiry that >> will reveal the third step as first-hand? >> >> With all respect and friendship >> >> Warwick Wakefield >> > > > >===== ></join>/grou\ p//join > > > > > ><> > > > >Protect your identity with Mail AddressGuard ><http://antispam./whatsnewfree>http://antispam./whatsnewfree > > >/join > > > ><> > >"Love itself is the actual form of God." > >Sri Ramana > >In "Letters from Sri Ramanasramam" by Suri Nagamma > > > >---------- > Links > * > * </>Har\ shaSatsangh/ > * > * > * <?subject=Un>HarshaSat\ sangh > * > * Your use of is subject to the <> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 2, 2004 Report Share Posted January 2, 2004 Dear Warwick the socalled third step do not think about it live it get rid of every concept just BE IT please try it and tell me afterwards....... with respect michael bindel >Gregory Goode > >To: , Warwick Wakefield >Re: Re: Welcome to >Date: Fri, 02 Jan 2004 12:11:52 -0500 > >Hellow Warwick, > >You ask what would make your third step first-hand. There are three short excellent books that present things phrased in the same way as your third step. They make excellent lines of inquiry: > >1. George Berkeley's _THREE DIALOGUES BETWEEN HYLAS AND PHILONOUS_ >2. Shri Atmananda's _ATMA DARSHAN_ >3. Shri Atmananda's _ATMA NIRVRITI_ > >--Greg > > > >--- Warwick Wakefield > >wrote: > >> Dear Friends, > >> > >> I will go straight to the heart of the matter. > >> > >> The usual first step in Advaita, as practiced by > >> Nisargadatta and others, is that the enquirer should > >> understand that he is "not the body and not the > >> mind", that he is, in other words, pure > >> consciousness. > >> > >> The second step is to understand that the objects of > >> consciousness, the observed body/mind and the world, > >> are not separate from consciousness. They are forms, > >> or form, taken by consciousness. Just like waves > >> are forms taken by the ocean. > >> > >> This is pretty straightforward; different but > >> straightforward. It makes no claim on the matter of > >> whether the objects of consciousness represent, or > >> are caused by, material or other objects that exist > >> independently of consciousness. > >> > >> The third step seems to be that all the objects of > >> consciousness have no existence apart from > >> consciousness (not apart from an individual mind, > >> but apart from the one-and-only, universal > >> consciousness). So there is no independently > >> -existing "stuff" or "material substance", there is > >> I, universal consciousness, and there are the forms > >> that I take, and the forms are not separate from I > >> but intrinsic to and inseparable from I. I create > >> all form, I perceive all form and I am all form. > >> > >> This has the advantage of leaving absolutely no > >> space for me-as-a-separate-entity, which is > >> wonderful, but it has the disadvantage of being > >> not-very-accessible as first hand experience, or > >> truth, or knowledge, or whatever word you want to > >> use for that which is first hand and not just > >> something that has been read about, told or > >> imagined. > >> > >> Now, we surely are in agreement that second-hand > >> knowledge is not very satisfactory. > >> What advice do you have about a line of enquiry that > >> will reveal the third step as first-hand? > >> > >> With all respect and friendship > >> > >> Warwick Wakefield > >> > > > > > > > >===== > >/join > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Protect your identity with Mail AddressGuard > >http://antispam./whatsnewfree > > > > > >/join > > > > > > > > > > > >"Love itself is the actual form of God." > > > >Sri Ramana > > > >In "Letters from Sri Ramanasramam" by Suri Nagamma > > > > > > > >---------- > > Links > > * > > * / > > * > > * To from this group, send an email to: > > * > > * > > * Your use of is subject to the > Protect your PC - Click here for McAfee.com VirusScan Online Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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