Guest guest Posted January 10, 2004 Report Share Posted January 10, 2004 You are not the Doer You and I are not doers. We're really not. This is one of the last dominoes to fall when you are trying to wake up. Arguments against this theory abound, obfuscating the clear light of the principle. I am not typing these words into the computer. Well, of course I am. Actually, "I am" is typing these words into the computer, but "me" is not. "Me" doesn't have a clue. " Me" is "I am" dressed up as" Vicki the typist." I try hard not to intellectualize what I know to be true. I get tired of reading esoteric blah blah about enlightenment. These fingers pointing to the moon are not typing, you might say. Everything is typing and that is the simple truth. Everything backs up everything and nothing is excluded. Martian rocks and argyle socks are excellent typists when they need to be. So are newborn pups and coffee cups. Whatever needs to be done is done by the All. When you run out of tape wrapping a package, the universe runs out of tape and has to go to the store. That is why gurus talk about cultivating the higher virtues, like thrift. Ramana Maharshi didn't waste a scrap of food. We all know that. If he had eaten at Chili's, he would have taken home part of his dinner in a styrofoam box. The day I discovered that I was not the doer was when my husband blamed me for burning dinner. "Oh, no," I chirped, "the universe burned the dinner." "Well, the universe doesn't have to clean it up," he said. He frowned at the charred skillet and I knew that I had found a real reason to believe in the theory of not being the doer. This may not be what you were expecting to read, but the universe is not always a very good writer. If you are dissatisfied enough to want to argue with me about this theory, the universe will be happy to hear what you have to say. And by the way, the universe likes chocolate-covered doughnuts but they tend to make it fat. So, let's recap, shall we? There is no doer and the universe is a trillion pounds overweight. They may find no life on Mars, but they will find a rather large double chin. When they figure out to get it a health club membership, all of us will have to go. Yours in clear understanding, Vicki Woodyard http://www.bobwoodyard.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 10, 2004 Report Share Posted January 10, 2004 Hi Vicki, I often wonder what the sages mean when they say that "you are not the doer". 1 Are they talking to the person? 2 Are they talking from the viewpoint that the person is a collection of perceptions and thoughts which are perceived but are not the perceivers?. In other words, that the person is not really sentient, or conscious - the person is just one of the dream-like entities that appears in the one, universal, consciousness? 3. Are they talking from the viewpoint that, firstly, there is no material "stuff", or "matter", which exists independently of consciousness, and, this being the case, there are no separate material things and no separate persons and the universe is best viewed as a dream of the One Dreamer. If material substance is a fact, at the highest (or deepest) level, I don't see how all could be One. If material substance is a fact, then separateness is also a fact. And if separateness is a fact, it doesn't seem to make much sense to talk about the whole of the universe (whatever that might be) being involved in every action. In fact, if we see the universe as an enormously large number of galaxies, stars, planets and the like, then I don't see how it can be said that the inhabitants of planet goop, circling around star gobola, three thousand million miles away, can conceivably give a damn about the well-being of Vicki, or Warwick, on planet earth. Much less accept the slightest degree of responsibility for Vicki burning the dinner or Warwick getting a whopping great parking fine because they had changed the parking sign and he didn't notice. I find this "you are not the doer" to be a very tricky proposition. Not denying it, just damned if I can figure out what it means. Cheers, Warwick - skiplaurel Sunday, January 11, 2004 7:21 AM You are not the doer You are not the DoerYou and I are not doers. We're really not. This is one of the last dominoes to fall when you are trying to wake up. Arguments against this theory abound, obfuscating the clear light of the principle.I am not typing these words into the computer. Well, of course I am. Actually, "I am" is typing these words into the computer, but "me" is not. "Me" doesn't have a clue. " Me" is "I am" dressed up as" Vicki the typist."I try hard not to intellectualize what I know to be true. I get tired of reading esoteric blah blah about enlightenment. These fingers pointing to the moon are not typing, you might say. Everything is typing and that is the simple truth. Everything backs up everything and nothing is excluded.Martian rocks and argyle socks are excellent typists when they need to be. So are newborn pups and coffee cups. Whatever needs to be done is done by the All. When you run out of tape wrapping a package, the universe runs out of tape and has to go to the store. That is why gurus talk about cultivating the higher virtues, like thrift. Ramana Maharshi didn't waste a scrap of food. We all know that. If he had eaten at Chili's, he would have taken home part of his dinner in a styrofoam box.The day I discovered that I was not the doer was when my husband blamed me for burning dinner. "Oh, no," I chirped, "the universe burned the dinner." "Well, the universe doesn't have to clean it up," he said. He frowned at the charred skillet and I knew that I had found a real reason to believe in the theory of not being the doer.This may not be what you were expecting to read, but the universe is not always a very good writer. If you are dissatisfied enough to want to argue with me about this theory, the universe will be happy to hear what you have to say. And by the way, the universe likes chocolate-covered doughnuts but they tend to make it fat. So, let's recap, shall we? There is no doer and the universe is a trillion pounds overweight. They may find no life on Mars, but they will find a rather large double chin. When they figure out to get it a health club membership, all of us will have to go.Yours in clear understanding,Vicki Woodyardhttp://www.bobwoodyard.com/join "Love itself is the actual form of God."Sri RamanaIn "Letters from Sri Ramanasramam" by Suri Nagamma To visit your group on the web, go to:/ To from this group, send an email to: Your use of Groups is subject to the Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 10, 2004 Report Share Posted January 10, 2004 , "Warwick Wakefield" <formandsubstance@t...> wrote: > Hi Vicki, > > I often wonder what the sages mean when they say that "you are not the doer". > > 1 Are they talking to the person? > 2 Are they talking from the viewpoint that the person is a collection of perceptions and thoughts which are perceived but are not the perceivers?. In other words, that the person is not really sentient, or conscious - the person is just one of the dream-like entities that appears in the one, universal, consciousness? > > 3. Are they talking from the viewpoint that, firstly, there is no material "stuff", or "matter", which exists independently of consciousness, and, this being the case, there are no separate material things and no separate persons and the universe is best viewed as a dream of the One Dreamer. > > If material substance is a fact, at the highest (or deepest) level, I don't see how all could be One. If material substance is a fact, then separateness is also a fact. And if separateness is a fact, it doesn't seem to make much sense to talk about the whole of the universe (whatever that might be) being involved in every action. In fact, if we see the universe as an enormously large number of galaxies, stars, planets and the like, then I don't see how it can be said that the inhabitants of planet goop, circling around star gobola, three thousand million miles away, can conceivably give a damn about the well-being of Vicki, or Warwick, on planet earth. Much less accept the slightest degree of responsibility for Vicki burning the dinner or Warwick getting a whopping great parking fine because they had changed the parking sign and he didn't notice. > > > I find this "you are not the doer" to be a very tricky proposition. Not denying it, just damned if I can figure out what it means. > > Cheers, > > Warwick > Hi, Warwick, this was written tongue-in-cheek and cheekily. Let's put it this way...I know it intellectually, just like you do. But to live it is quite another thingie. If you don't have a sense of humor and proportion about it occasionally, you become just another stuffed shirt with karmic gravy on it :-) Love, Vicki P.S. Leave it to the experts to answer your post better than I. I am just playing the fool right this minute. > > > - > skiplaurel > > Sunday, January 11, 2004 7:21 AM > You are not the doer > > > > You are not the Doer > > You and I are not doers. We're really not. This is one of the last dominoes to fall when you are trying to wake up. Arguments against this theory abound, obfuscating the clear light of the principle. > > I am not typing these words into the computer. Well, of course I am. Actually, "I am" is typing these words into the computer, but "me" is not. "Me" doesn't have a clue. " Me" is "I am" dressed up as" Vicki the typist." > > I try hard not to intellectualize what I know to be true. I get tired of reading esoteric blah blah about enlightenment. These fingers pointing to the moon are not typing, you might say. Everything is typing and that is the simple truth. Everything backs up everything and nothing is excluded. > > Martian rocks and argyle socks are excellent typists when they need to be. So are newborn pups and coffee cups. Whatever needs to be done is done by the All. When you run out of tape wrapping a package, the universe runs out of tape and has to go to the store. That is why gurus talk about cultivating the higher virtues, like thrift. Ramana Maharshi didn't waste a scrap of food. We all know that. If he had eaten at Chili's, he would have taken home part of his dinner in a styrofoam box. > > The day I discovered that I was not the doer was when my husband blamed me for burning dinner. "Oh, no," I chirped, "the universe burned the dinner." > > "Well, the universe doesn't have to clean it up," he said. He frowned at the charred skillet and I knew that I had found a real reason to believe in the theory of not being the doer. > > This may not be what you were expecting to read, but the universe is not always a very good writer. If you are dissatisfied enough to want to argue with me about this theory, the universe will be happy to hear what you have to say. And by the way, the universe likes chocolate-covered doughnuts but they tend to make it fat. > > So, let's recap, shall we? There is no doer and the universe is a trillion pounds overweight. They may find no life on Mars, but they will find a rather large double chin. > When they figure out to get it a health club membership, all of us will have to go. > > Yours in clear understanding, > Vicki Woodyard > http://www.bobwoodyard.com > > > > /join > > > > > > "Love itself is the actual form of God." > > Sri Ramana > > In "Letters from Sri Ramanasramam" by Suri Nagamma > > > > > Links > > > / > > b.. > > > c.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 10, 2004 Report Share Posted January 10, 2004 Next time my sage Jesse, 4, says..."I didn't did it!", I will ask him what he really means :-) LOL, Joyce I find this "you are not the doer" to be a very tricky proposition. Not denying it, just damned if I can figure out what it means. Cheers, Warwick - skiplaurel Sunday, January 11, 2004 7:21 AM You are not the doer You are not the DoerYou and I are not doers. We're really not. This is one of the last dominoes to fall when you are trying to wake up. Arguments against this theory abound, obfuscating the clear light of the principle.I am not typing these words into the computer. Well, of course I am. Actually, "I am" is typing these words into the computer, but "me" is not. "Me" doesn't have a clue. " Me" is "I am" dressed up as" Vicki the typist."I try hard not to intellectualize what I know to be true. I get tired of reading esoteric blah blah about enlightenment. These fingers pointing to the moon are not typing, you might say. Everything is typing and that is the simple truth. Everything backs up everything and nothing is excluded.Martian rocks and argyle socks are excellent typists when they need to be. So are newborn pups and coffee cups. Whatever needs to be done is done by the All. When you run out of tape wrapping a package, the universe runs out of tape and has to go to the store. That is why gurus talk about cultivating the higher virtues, like thrift. Ramana Maharshi didn't waste a scrap of food. We all know that. If he had eaten at Chili's, he would have taken home part of his dinner in a styrofoam box.The day I discovered that I was not the doer was when my husband blamed me for burning dinner. "Oh, no," I chirped, "the universe burned the dinner." "Well, the universe doesn't have to clean it up," he said. He frowned at the charred skillet and I knew that I had found a real reason to believe in the theory of not being the doer.This may not be what you were expecting to read, but the universe is not always a very good writer. If you are dissatisfied enough to want to argue with me about this theory, the universe will be happy to hear what you have to say. And by the way, the universe likes chocolate-covered doughnuts but they tend to make it fat. So, let's recap, shall we? There is no doer and the universe is a trillion pounds overweight. They may find no life on Mars, but they will find a rather large double chin. When they figure out to get it a health club membership, all of us will have to go.Yours in clear understanding,Vicki Woodyardhttp://www.bobwoodyard.com/join "Love itself is the actual form of God."Sri RamanaIn "Letters from Sri Ramanasramam" by Suri Nagamma To visit your group on the web, go to:/ To from this group, send an email to: Your use of Groups is subject to the /join "Love itself is the actual form of God."Sri RamanaIn "Letters from Sri Ramanasramam" by Suri Nagamma To visit your group on the web, go to:/ To from this group, send an email to: Your use of Groups is subject to the Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 10, 2004 Report Share Posted January 10, 2004 Vicky, thank you for your clear words sending me off along these lines I have already written several times, just to see the mental practice with no value whatsoever apart from sorting thoughts. But here I try again to see if I hit the send button. More than a year ago I noticed I had a grey spot in my own view on will and desire. I went to the edge of the lake and filled my mind with rather basic desires to observe what was really going on. And the cat walked through the field looking for birds on the other side. The next day I repeated it. And at the exact same point in my line of thoughts the cat walked through the field looking for birds on the other side. So desire was presented to me as a line of bricks already falling (not even mentioning choice : ). This Christmas I went to visit to my teacher. She is nearly a hundred years old with a bad injury to her back from a fall. How she is still alive I do not know. She refused to stay in the nursing home and lives alone in a big house on a small island. I took this picture on my way to see her. Just below the seagull on the other side, there is a row of houses along the shore. As I sit there I have to think about these constructions of the mind, and I should have looked down in shame. Praying I may acquire one inch of her will. A mile or two down the road on my way home in the dark night I leave the coffee table conversation like a bumble-bee parting from a flower into sunshine. Alan And Ramanas well known words are here in Forty Verses on Reality. http://www.realization.org/page/namedoc0/40_verses/40_verses_1.htm Attachment: (image/jpeg) 0102_161126AA_1.JPG [not stored] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 10, 2004 Report Share Posted January 10, 2004 Dear Warwick thank you for your contribution the wisdom I am not the doer is constantly misused like everything today it is so easy to state words like this..... but who lives them thats the question now to my personal experience which I want to share with you and everybody really wanting to know after how many lives unimaginable I attained the Grace of arriving at this point whatever I do its not good enough for my inner being with whatever power I had I did everything I thought to be necessary to understand the more I understood the more difficult it become because it was mental or because it was emotional or or or till I acceptet my inner truth since early childhood my quest for REAL LOVE was the same as my inner longing urging obsession with "coming home" "being at home" with the BELOVED ONE my searce for Love wisdom knowing the truth about all whats about and my absolute readiness to sacrifice all my beliefs besides the one THERE IS ONLY THE LORD AND NOTHING ELSE thru grace bear fruit since nearly 20 years I live with my one and only soulmate together for how many lifes we only can imagine given birth to a 12 year wonderful spiritual boy with whom I can talk about all this "stuff" what I cannot do with anyone else besides his mother and one friend on earth listen please asking the ONEANDONLY for the grace of learning to know what real love is about a went thru hell for some years till I learned it till I sacrificed my Ego on the altar of LOVING THE BELOVED thru LOVING MYSELF MY SPRITUAL MATE OUR SPIRITUAL SON ALL ALL IN BODY AND SOUL and only after this seemingly endless journey to the LORD BACK HOME someday somehow I realized that whatever I do thru the Ego is of no avail that I asked the BELOVED ONE let my Ego go and take complete command of mine what means realizing moment for moment the futile moves of my Ego and very fast indeed thank you LORD it was like plazing a puzzle everything was in place after a journey of this..... after realizing everything like this.... everybody can state I am not the doer one step below its just funny to listen to this... Warwick I shared this because my love for the ALLMIGHTY is overflowing my selfdiscipline is lacking a n d I feel from top to bottom THE BELOVED ONE ACTS THRU "ME" and by watching the results I have finally to accept the strange fact somehow this struggling soul of mine has reached something.... and believe me for a great part of not only this life I was a very good enemy of myself with all due respect and love for all of you michael bindel michael_bindel (AT) hotmail (DOT) com >"Lady Joyce" > > >Re: You are not the doer >Sat, 10 Jan 2004 21:00:06 -0500 > >Next time my sage Jesse, 4, says..."I didn't did it!", >I will ask him what he really means :-) > >LOL, > >Joyce > I find this "you are not the doer" to be a very tricky proposition. Not denying it, just damned if I can figure out what it means. > > Cheers, > > Warwick > > > > > - > skiplaurel > > Sent: Sunday, January 11, 2004 7:21 AM > You are not the doer > > > > You are not the Doer > > You and I are not doers. We're really not. This is one of the last dominoes to fall when you are trying to wake up. Arguments against this theory abound, obfuscating the clear light of the principle. > > I am not typing these words into the computer. Well, of course I am. Actually, "I am" is typing these words into the computer, but "me" is not. "Me" doesn't have a clue. " Me" is "I am" dressed up as" Vicki the typist." > > I try hard not to intellectualize what I know to be true. I get tired of reading esoteric blah blah about enlightenment. These fingers pointing to the moon are not typing, you might say. Everything is typing and that is the simple truth. Everything backs up everything and nothing is excluded. > > Martian rocks and argyle socks are excellent typists when they need to be. So are newborn pups and coffee cups. Whatever needs to be done is done by the All. When you run out of tape wrapping a package, the universe runs out of tape and has to go to the store. That is why gurus talk about cultivating the higher virtues, like thrift. Ramana Maharshi didn't waste a scrap of food. We all know that. If he had eaten at Chili's, he would have taken home part of his dinner in a styrofoam box. > > The day I discovered that I was not the doer was when my husband blamed me for burning dinner. "Oh, no," I chirped, "the universe burned the dinner." > > "Well, the universe doesn't have to clean it up," he said. He frowned at the charred skillet and I knew that I had found a real reason to believe in the theory of not being the doer. > > This may not be what you were expecting to read, but the universe is not always a very good writer. If you are dissatisfied enough to want to argue with me about this theory, the universe will be happy to hear what you have to say. And by the way, the universe likes chocolate-covered doughnuts but they tend to make it fat. > > So, let's recap, shall we? There is no doer and the universe is a trillion pounds overweight. They may find no life on Mars, but they will find a rather large double chin. > When they figure out to get it a health club membership, all of us will have to go. > > Yours in clear understanding, > Vicki Woodyard > http://www.bobwoodyard.com > > > > /join > > > > > > "Love itself is the actual form of God." > > Sri Ramana > > In "Letters from Sri Ramanasramam" by Suri Nagamma > > > >---------- > Links > > a.. To visit your group on the web, go to: > / > > b.. > > > c.. Your use of is subject to the > > > > > /join > > > > > > "Love itself is the actual form of God." > > Sri Ramana > > In "Letters from Sri Ramanasramam" by Suri Nagamma > > > > > Links > > a.. To visit your group on the web, go to: > / > > b.. To from this group, send an email to: > > > c.. Your use of is subject to the > STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 11, 2004 Report Share Posted January 11, 2004 Hi Noble satsangis, Bhuvaneswar created this universe for the experience of the karma phalam of the jivas.Hence, all this creation is His product.You have no say in its creation,sustenance,and dissolution.So Eswara:gjna le:nide: chi:maina: kuttadu 'With out Eswara's will even an ant will not bite' The same Eswara is the jivas in the differentiated aspect of nature (prakruthi) which is his body- as can be seen from the anology of the spider and the sun reflecting as myriad suns in the droplets of water in the ocean.The jivas conduct their jivanam through triple action according to their karma as reflected in their svabhavam as reflected in their triple actions of mental,vocal,and physical actions.That is why: Buddhi karma:nusa:rini 'intellection (decisions to act in a particular way) is karma following' and so Character is destiny. Therefore,in a top-down process,everything is done by Eswara according to a huge macroplanning in a mind boggling network of action and reaction options and choices.Since nature is His Energy,as HE wills so it becomes in the analogy of a spider weaving a web out of the energy (in the form of fluid silk- matter is nothing but a form of energy as Einstein showed in his E = MC square )it possesses. But from a bottom up prcess,the jiva through His svabhavam makes a choice from a karmik network of options and executes Eswara's planning.Since He makes a choice,it appears that he has free will and is responsible for what he does.These choices made out of his free will leave impressions in his antahkarana and influence his guna.As his guna changes ,his desires will also change;as his desires will change, his attitude to the actions also changes and thus creates a new karma phalam because of his agency - which he imposes on himself by ignorance - and again gets into a cyclic network of action -reaction to experience the karma phalam.It is the agency that is the trick. If there is no agency,there is no karma.If there is no karma ,there is neither free will nor destiny.But as long as they are there ,there is both free will and karma.It is avidya that creates free will or detiny. It is all a matter of perception!!! All is not there and all is there as you view it! Love always Bhuvaneswar On Sun, 11 Jan 2004 MICHAEL BINDEL wrote : >Dear Warwick >thank you for your contribution > >the wisdom >I am not the doer >is constantly misused like everything today > >it is so easy to state words like this..... >but who lives them >thats the question > >now to my personal experience which I want to share with you and everybody really wanting to know > >after how many lives unimaginable I attained >the Grace of arriving at this point > >whatever I do its not good enough for my inner being >with whatever power I had I did everything I thought to be necessary to understand > >the more I understood the more difficult it become >because it was mental >or because it was emotional >or or or > >till I acceptet my inner truth since early childhood > >my quest for REAL LOVE >was the same as my inner longing urging obsession with "coming home" "being at home" with the BELOVED ONE > >my searce for Love wisdom knowing the truth about all whats about >and my absolute readiness to sacrifice all my beliefs besides the one > >THERE IS ONLY THE LORD AND NOTHING ELSE > >thru grace bear fruit > >since nearly 20 years I live with my one and only soulmate >together for how many lifes we only can imagine >given birth to a 12 year wonderful spiritual boy >with whom I can talk about all this "stuff" >what I cannot do with anyone else besides his mother and one friend on earth > >listen please > >asking the ONEANDONLY >for the grace of learning to know what real love is about >a went thru hell for some years >till I learned it >till I sacrificed my Ego on the altar of LOVING THE BELOVED >thru >LOVING MYSELF MY SPRITUAL MATE OUR SPIRITUAL SON ALL ALL IN BODY AND SOUL > >and only after this >seemingly endless journey to the LORD BACK HOME > >someday somehow >I realized that > >whatever I do thru the Ego is of no avail >that I asked the BELOVED ONE >let my Ego go and take complete command of mine > >what means >realizing moment for moment >the futile moves of my Ego > >and very fast indeed >thank you LORD >it was like plazing a puzzle > >everything was in place > >after a journey of this..... >after realizing everything like this.... > >everybody can state > >I am not the doer > >one step below >its just funny >to listen to this... > > >Warwick > >I shared this because my love for the ALLMIGHTY >is overflowing >my selfdiscipline is lacking >a n d > >I feel from top to bottom > >THE BELOVED ONE ACTS THRU "ME" > >and by watching the results I have finally to accept the strange fact >somehow this struggling soul of mine has reached something.... > >and believe me >for a great part of not only this life I was a very good enemy of myself > > >with all due respect and love for all of you > >michael bindel > >michael_bindel (AT) hotmail (DOT) com > >>"Lady Joyce" >> > >>To: >>Re: You are not the doer > >>Sat, 10 Jan 2004 21:00:06 -0500 > >> > >>Next time my sage Jesse, 4, says..."I didn't did it!", > >>I will ask him what he really means :-) > >> > >>LOL, > >> > >>Joyce > >> I find this "you are not the doer" to be a very tricky proposition. Not denying it, just damned if I can figure out what it means. > >> > >> Cheers, > >> > >> Warwick > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> - > >> skiplaurel > >> > >> Sunday, January 11, 2004 7:21 AM > >> You are not the doer > >> > >> > >> > >> You are not the Doer > >> > >> You and I are not doers. We're really not. This is one of the last dominoes to fall when you are trying to wake up. Arguments against this theory abound, obfuscating the clear light of the principle. > >> > >> I am not typing these words into the computer. Well, of course I am. Actually, "I am" is typing these words into the computer, but "me" is not. "Me" doesn't have a clue. " Me" is "I am" dressed up as" Vicki the typist." > >> > >> I try hard not to intellectualize what I know to be true. I get tired of reading esoteric blah blah about enlightenment. These fingers pointing to the moon are not typing, you might say. Everything is typing and that is the simple truth. Everything backs up everything and nothing is excluded. > >> > >> Martian rocks and argyle socks are excellent typists when they need to be. So are newborn pups and coffee cups. Whatever needs to be done is done by the All. When you run out of tape wrapping a package, the universe runs out of tape and has to go to the store. That is why gurus talk about cultivating the higher virtues, like thrift. Ramana Maharshi didn't waste a scrap of food. We all know that. If he had eaten at Chili's, he would have taken home part of his dinner in a styrofoam box. > >> > >> The day I discovered that I was not the doer was when my husband blamed me for burning dinner. "Oh, no," I chirped, "the universe burned the dinner." > >> > >> "Well, the universe doesn't have to clean it up," he said. He frowned at the charred skillet and I knew that I had found a real reason to believe in the theory of not being the doer. > >> > >> This may not be what you were expecting to read, but the universe is not always a very good writer. If you are dissatisfied enough to want to argue with me about this theory, the universe will be happy to hear what you have to say. And by the way, the universe likes chocolate-covered doughnuts but they tend to make it fat. > >> > >> So, let's recap, shall we? There is no doer and the universe is a trillion pounds overweight. They may find no life on Mars, but they will find a rather large double chin. > >> When they figure out to get it a health club membership, all of us will have to go. > >> > >> Yours in clear understanding, > >> Vicki Woodyard > >> http://www.bobwoodyard.com > >> > >> > >> > >> /join > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> "Love itself is the actual form of God." > >> > >> Sri Ramana > >> > >> In "Letters from Sri Ramanasramam" by Suri Nagamma > >> > >> > >> > >>---------- > >> Links > >> > >> > >> / > >> > >> b.. > >> > >> > >> c.. Terms of Service. > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> /join > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> "Love itself is the actual form of God." > >> > >> Sri Ramana > >> > >> In "Letters from Sri Ramanasramam" by Suri Nagamma > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> Links > >> > >> > >> / > >> > >> b.. > >> > >> > >> c.. > >> > >STOP MORE SPAM with >the new MSN 8 >and get 2 months FREE* > >/join > > >"Love itself is the actual form of God." >Sri Ramana >In "Letters from Sri Ramanasramam" by Suri Nagamma > Links > >/ > > > > > > >Your use of is subject to the > Terms of Service >. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 11, 2004 Report Share Posted January 11, 2004 hi bhuvan thank you for your work so much b u t please no theoretical stuff your practical life is demanded! lots of love Michael Bindel >"bhuvan eswar chilukuri" > >To: >CC: Proverbiallinguists >Re: Re: You are not the doer >11 Jan 2004 08:25:40 -0000 > > >Hi Noble satsangis, > >Bhuvaneswar created this universe for the experience of the karma phalam of the jivas.Hence, all this creation is His product.You have no say in its creation,sustenance,and dissolution.So > >Eswara:gjna le:nide: chi:maina: kuttadu >'With out Eswara's will even an ant will not bite' > >The same Eswara is the jivas in the differentiated aspect of nature (prakruthi) which is his body- as can be seen from the anology of the spider and the sun reflecting as myriad suns in the droplets of water in the ocean.The jivas conduct their jivanam through triple action according to their karma as reflected in their svabhavam as reflected in their triple actions of mental,vocal,and physical actions.That is why: >Buddhi karma:nusa:rini >'intellection (decisions to act in a particular way) is karma following' and so > >Character is destiny. > >Therefore,in a top-down process,everything is done by Eswara according to a huge macroplanning in a mind boggling network of action and reaction options and choices.Since nature is His Energy,as HE wills so it becomes in the analogy of a spider weaving a web out of the energy (in the form of fluid silk- matter is nothing but a form of energy as Einstein showed in his E = MC square )it possesses. > >But from a bottom up prcess,the jiva through His svabhavam makes a choice from a karmik network of options and executes Eswara's planning.Since He makes a choice,it appears that he has free will and is responsible for what he does.These choices made out of his free will leave impressions in his antahkarana and influence his guna.As his guna changes ,his desires will also change;as his desires will change, his attitude to the actions also changes and thus creates a new karma phalam because of his agency - which he imposes on himself by ignorance - and again gets into a cyclic network of action -reaction to experience the karma phalam.It is the agency that is the trick. > >If there is no agency,there is no karma.If there is no karma ,there is neither free will nor destiny.But as long as they are there ,there is both free will and karma.It is avidya that creates free will or detiny. > >It is all a matter of perception!!! > >All is not there and all is there as you view it! > >Love always > >Bhuvaneswar > > > >On Sun, 11 Jan 2004 MICHAEL BINDEL wrote : > >Dear Warwick > >thank you for your contribution > > > >the wisdom > >I am not the doer > >is constantly misused like everything today > > > >it is so easy to state words like this..... > >but who lives them > >thats the question > > > >now to my personal experience which I want to share with you and everybody really wanting to know > > > >after how many lives unimaginable I attained > >the Grace of arriving at this point > > > >whatever I do its not good enough for my inner being > >with whatever power I had I did everything I thought to be necessary to understand > > > >the more I understood the more difficult it become > >because it was mental > >or because it was emotional > >or or or > > > >till I acceptet my inner truth since early childhood > > > >my quest for REAL LOVE > >was the same as my inner longing urging obsession with "coming home" "being at home" with the BELOVED ONE > > > >my searce for Love wisdom knowing the truth about all whats about > >and my absolute readiness to sacrifice all my beliefs besides the one > > > >THERE IS ONLY THE LORD AND NOTHING ELSE > > > >thru grace bear fruit > > > >since nearly 20 years I live with my one and only soulmate > >together for how many lifes we only can imagine > >given birth to a 12 year wonderful spiritual boy > >with whom I can talk about all this "stuff" > >what I cannot do with anyone else besides his mother and one friend on earth > > > >listen please > > > >asking the ONEANDONLY > >for the grace of learning to know what real love is about > >a went thru hell for some years > >till I learned it > >till I sacrificed my Ego on the altar of LOVING THE BELOVED > >thru > >LOVING MYSELF MY SPRITUAL MATE OUR SPIRITUAL SON ALL ALL IN BODY AND SOUL > > > >and only after this > >seemingly endless journey to the LORD BACK HOME > > > >someday somehow > >I realized that > > > >whatever I do thru the Ego is of no avail > >that I asked the BELOVED ONE > >let my Ego go and take complete command of mine > > > >what means > >realizing moment for moment > >the futile moves of my Ego > > > >and very fast indeed > >thank you LORD > >it was like plazing a puzzle > > > >everything was in place > > > >after a journey of this..... > >after realizing everything like this.... > > > >everybody can state > > > >I am not the doer > > > >one step below > >its just funny > >to listen to this... > > > > > >Warwick > > > >I shared this because my love for the ALLMIGHTY > >is overflowing > >my selfdiscipline is lacking > >a n d > > > >I feel from top to bottom > > > >THE BELOVED ONE ACTS THRU "ME" > > > >and by watching the results I have finally to accept the strange fact > >somehow this struggling soul of mine has reached something.... > > > >and believe me > >for a great part of not only this life I was a very good enemy of myself > > > > > >with all due respect and love for all of you > > > >michael bindel > > > >michael_bindel (AT) hotmail (DOT) com > > > >>"Lady Joyce" > >> > > > >>> >>Re: You are not the doer > > > >>Sat, 10 Jan 2004 21:00:06 -0500 > > > >> > > > >>Next time my sage Jesse, 4, says..."I didn't did it!", > > > >>I will ask him what he really means :-) > > > >> > > > >>LOL, > > > >> > > > >>Joyce > > > >> I find this "you are not the doer" to be a very tricky proposition. Not denying it, just damned if I can figure out what it means. > > > >> > > > >> Cheers, > > > >> > > > >> Warwick > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> - > > > >> skiplaurel > > > >> > > > >> Sunday, January 11, 2004 7:21 AM > > > >> You are not the doer > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> You are not the Doer > > > >> > > > >> You and I are not doers. We're really not. This is one of the last dominoes to fall when you are trying to wake up. Arguments against this theory abound, obfuscating the clear light of the principle. > > > >> > > > >> I am not typing these words into the computer. Well, of course I am. Actually, "I am" is typing these words into the computer, but "me" is not. "Me" doesn't have a clue. " Me" is "I am" dressed up as" Vicki the typist." > > > >> > > > >> I try hard not to intellectualize what I know to be true. I get tired of reading esoteric blah blah about enlightenment. These fingers pointing to the moon are not typing, you might say. Everything is typing and that is the simple truth. Everything backs up everything and nothing is excluded. > > > >> > > > >> Martian rocks and argyle socks are excellent typists when they need to be. So are newborn pups and coffee cups. Whatever needs to be done is done by the All. When you run out of tape wrapping a package, the universe runs out of tape and has to go to the store. That is why gurus talk about cultivating the higher virtues, like thrift. Ramana Maharshi didn't waste a scrap of food. We all know that. If he had eaten at Chili's, he would have taken home part of his dinner in a styrofoam box. > > > >> > > > >> The day I discovered that I was not the doer was when my husband blamed me for burning dinner. "Oh, no," I chirped, "the universe burned the dinner." > > > >> > > > >> "Well, the universe doesn't have to clean it up," he said. He frowned at the charred skillet and I knew that I had found a real reason to believe in the theory of not being the doer. > > > >> > > > >> This may not be what you were expecting to read, but the universe is not always a very good writer. If you are dissatisfied enough to want to argue with me about this theory, the universe will be happy to hear what you have to say. And by the way, the universe likes chocolate-covered doughnuts but they tend to make it fat. > > > >> > > > >> So, let's recap, shall we? There is no doer and the universe is a trillion pounds overweight. They may find no life on Mars, but they will find a rather large double chin. > > > >> When they figure out to get it a health club membership, all of us will have to go. > > > >> > > > >> Yours in clear understanding, > > > >> Vicki Woodyard > > > >> http://www.bobwoodyard.com > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> /join > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> "Love itself is the actual form of God." > > > >> > > > >> Sri Ramana > > > >> > > > >> In "Letters from Sri Ramanasramam" by Suri Nagamma > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >>---------- > > > >> Links > > > >> > > > >> a.. To visit your group on the web, go to: > > > >> / > > > >> > > > >> b.. > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> c.. Terms of Service. > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> /join > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> "Love itself is the actual form of God." > > > >> > > > >> Sri Ramana > > > >> > > > >> In "Letters from Sri Ramanasramam" by Suri Nagamma > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> Links > > > >> > > > >> a.. To visit your group on the web, go to: > > > >> / > > > >> > > > >> b.. > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> c.. > > > >> > > > >STOP MORE SPAM with > >the new MSN 8 > >and get 2 months FREE* > > > >/join > > > > > >"Love itself is the actual form of God." > >Sri Ramana > >In "Letters from Sri Ramanasramam" by Suri Nagamma > > Links > >To visit your group on the web, go to: > >/ > > > > > >To from this group, send an email to: > > > > > > > >Your use of is subject to the > > Terms of Service > >. > > The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 11, 2004 Report Share Posted January 11, 2004 To Bhuvaneswarji, thank you for your loving reply. Very many of the terms that you use are unfamiliar to me, but I will get from it what I can. Namaste Warwick - bhuvan eswar chilukuri Cc: Proverbiallinguists Sunday, January 11, 2004 7:25 PM Re: Re: You are not the doer Hi Noble satsangis,Bhuvaneswar created this universe for the experience of the karma phalam of the jivas.Hence, all this creation is His product.You have no say in its creation,sustenance,and dissolution.So Eswara:gjna le:nide: chi:maina: kuttadu'With out Eswara's will even an ant will not bite'The same Eswara is the jivas in the differentiated aspect of nature (prakruthi) which is his body- as can be seen from the anology of the spider and the sun reflecting as myriad suns in the droplets of water in the ocean.The jivas conduct their jivanam through triple action according to their karma as reflected in their svabhavam as reflected in their triple actions of mental,vocal,and physical actions.That is why:Buddhi karma:nusa:rini'intellection (decisions to act in a particular way) is karma following' and soCharacter is destiny.Therefore,in a top-down process,everything is done by Eswara according to a huge macroplanning in a mind boggling network of action and reaction options and choices.Since nature is His Energy,as HE wills so it becomes in the analogy of a spider weaving a web out of the energy (in the form of fluid silk- matter is nothing but a form of energy as Einstein showed in his E = MC square )it possesses.But from a bottom up prcess,the jiva through His svabhavam makes a choice from a karmik network of options and executes Eswara's planning.Since He makes a choice,it appears that he has free will and is responsible for what he does.These choices made out of his free will leave impressions in his antahkarana and influence his guna.As his guna changes ,his desires will also change;as his desires will change, his attitude to the actions also changes and thus creates a new karma phalam because of his agency - which he imposes on himself by ignorance - and again gets into a cyclic network of action -reaction to experience the karma phalam.It is the agency that is the trick.If there is no agency,there is no karma.If there is no karma ,there is neither free will nor destiny.But as long as they are there ,there is both free will and karma.It is avidya that creates free will or detiny.It is all a matter of perception!!!All is not there and all is there as you view it!Love always Bhuvaneswar On Sun, 11 Jan 2004 MICHAEL BINDEL wrote :>Dear Warwick>thank you for your contribution> >the wisdom>I am not the doer>is constantly misused like everything today> >it is so easy to state words like this.....>but who lives them>thats the question> >now to my personal experience which I want to share with you and everybody really wanting to know> >after how many lives unimaginable I attained>the Grace of arriving at this point> >whatever I do its not good enough for my inner being>with whatever power I had I did everything I thought to be necessary to understand> >the more I understood the more difficult it become>because it was mental>or because it was emotional>or or or> >till I acceptet my inner truth since early childhood> >my quest for REAL LOVE>was the same as my inner longing urging obsession with "coming home" "being at home" with the BELOVED ONE> >my searce for Love wisdom knowing the truth about all whats about>and my absolute readiness to sacrifice all my beliefs besides the one> >THERE IS ONLY THE LORD AND NOTHING ELSE> >thru grace bear fruit> >since nearly 20 years I live with my one and only soulmate>together for how many lifes we only can imagine>given birth to a 12 year wonderful spiritual boy>with whom I can talk about all this "stuff">what I cannot do with anyone else besides his mother and one friend on earth> >listen please> >asking the ONEANDONLY>for the grace of learning to know what real love is about>a went thru hell for some years>till I learned it>till I sacrificed my Ego on the altar of LOVING THE BELOVED>thru>LOVING MYSELF MY SPRITUAL MATE OUR SPIRITUAL SON ALL ALL IN BODY AND SOUL> >and only after this>seemingly endless journey to the LORD BACK HOME> >someday somehow>I realized that> >whatever I do thru the Ego is of no avail>that I asked the BELOVED ONE>let my Ego go and take complete command of mine> >what means>realizing moment for moment>the futile moves of my Ego> >and very fast indeed>thank you LORD>it was like plazing a puzzle> >everything was in place> >after a journey of this.....>after realizing everything like this....> >everybody can state> >I am not the doer> >one step below>its just funny>to listen to this...> > >Warwick> >I shared this because my love for the ALLMIGHTY>is overflowing>my selfdiscipline is lacking>a n d> >I feel from top to bottom> >THE BELOVED ONE ACTS THRU "ME"> >and by watching the results I have finally to accept the strange fact>somehow this struggling soul of mine has reached something....> >and believe me>for a great part of not only this life I was a very good enemy of myself> > >with all due respect and love for all of you> >michael bindel> >michael_bindel (AT) hotmail (DOT) com> >>"Lady Joyce">> >>>To:>>Re: You are not the doer>>>Sat, 10 Jan 2004 21:00:06 -0500>>>>>>Next time my sage Jesse, 4, says..."I didn't did it!",>>>I will ask him what he really means :-)>>>>>>LOL,>>>>>>Joyce>>> I find this "you are not the doer" to be a very tricky proposition. Not denying it, just damned if I can figure out what it means.>>>>>> Cheers,>>>>>> Warwick>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----->>> skiplaurel>>> To: >>> Sunday, January 11, 2004 7:21 AM>>> You are not the doer>>>>>>>>>>>> You are not the Doer>>>>>> You and I are not doers. We're really not. This is one of the last dominoes to fall when you are trying to wake up. Arguments against this theory abound, obfuscating the clear light of the principle.>>>>>> I am not typing these words into the computer. Well, of course I am. Actually, "I am" is typing these words into the computer, but "me" is not. "Me" doesn't have a clue. " Me" is "I am" dressed up as" Vicki the typist.">>>>>> I try hard not to intellectualize what I know to be true. I get tired of reading esoteric blah blah about enlightenment. These fingers pointing to the moon are not typing, you might say. Everything is typing and that is the simple truth. Everything backs up everything and nothing is excluded.>>>>>> Martian rocks and argyle socks are excellent typists when they need to be. So are newborn pups and coffee cups. Whatever needs to be done is done by the All. When you run out of tape wrapping a package, the universe runs out of tape and has to go to the store. That is why gurus talk about cultivating the higher virtues, like thrift. Ramana Maharshi didn't waste a scrap of food. We all know that. If he had eaten at Chili's, he would have taken home part of his dinner in a styrofoam box.>>>>>> The day I discovered that I was not the doer was when my husband blamed me for burning dinner. "Oh, no," I chirped, "the universe burned the dinner.">>>>>> "Well, the universe doesn't have to clean it up," he said. He frowned at the charred skillet and I knew that I had found a real reason to believe in the theory of not being the doer.>>>>>> This may not be what you were expecting to read, but the universe is not always a very good writer. If you are dissatisfied enough to want to argue with me about this theory, the universe will be happy to hear what you have to say. And by the way, the universe likes chocolate-covered doughnuts but they tend to make it fat.>>>>>> So, let's recap, shall we? There is no doer and the universe is a trillion pounds overweight. They may find no life on Mars, but they will find a rather large double chin.>>> When they figure out to get it a health club membership, all of us will have to go.>>>>>> Yours in clear understanding,>>> Vicki Woodyard>>> http://www.bobwoodyard.com>>>>>>>>>>>> /join>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> "Love itself is the actual form of God.">>>>>> Sri Ramana>>>>>> In "Letters from Sri Ramanasramam" by Suri Nagamma>>>>>>>>>>>>---------->>> Links>>>>>> a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:>>> />>>>>> b.. >>> >>>>>> c.. Your use of is subject to the Terms of Service.>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> /join>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> "Love itself is the actual form of God.">>>>>> Sri Ramana>>>>>> In "Letters from Sri Ramanasramam" by Suri Nagamma>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Links>>>>>> a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:>>> />>>>>> b.. >>> >>>>>> c.. Your use of is subject to the >>>>>STOP MORE SPAM with>the new MSN 8>and get 2 months FREE*>>/join> >>"Love itself is the actual form of God.">Sri Ramana>In "Letters from Sri Ramanasramam" by Suri Nagamma> Links>To visit your group on the web, go to:>/> >>To from this group, send an email to:>> >>Your use of Groups is subject to the> Terms of Service>.> /join "Love itself is the actual form of God."Sri RamanaIn "Letters from Sri Ramanasramam" by Suri Nagamma To visit your group on the web, go to:/ To from this group, send an email to: Your use of Groups is subject to the Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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