Guest guest Posted January 12, 2004 Report Share Posted January 12, 2004 Hi Tony, Please forgive me for being so bold, but this came to me just now when I didn't even know I was thinking about it! Could it possibly be that in creation, love is manifested in zillions of colors, including the sucking of pus from a leper's wound and *also* warm fuzzies? Do you think creation itself has any preference for one over the other? Who would it be that would have attraction towards or repulsion against one or the other? (And even if "someone" does...given the reality of "someones," does that have to have any meaning?) In the joyful spirit of inquiry... Kheyala Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 13, 2004 Report Share Posted January 13, 2004 , "kheyalove" <kheyala@n...> wrote: > Hi Tony, > > Please forgive me for being so bold, but this came to me just now > when I didn't even know I was thinking about it! > > Could it possibly be that in creation, love is manifested in zillions > of colors, including the sucking of pus from a leper's wound and > *also* warm fuzzies? > > Do you think creation itself has any preference for one over the > other? > > Who would it be that would have attraction towards or repulsion > against one or the other? > > (And even if "someone" does...given the reality of "someones," does > that have to have any meaning?) > > > In the joyful spirit of inquiry... > > Kheyala Namaste Kheyala, It depends at which level one is addressing. Ultimately there is no 'Self', or Love but only Nirguna. However at the relative level we do have a Self...Sakti...Saguna Brahman. However at this level Love or Sakti is 'Sameness', with no preferences or distinctions, no aversion or attachments. In another sense everything is Sakti or Love, however for arguments sake we do have emotions. Emotions can be deceiving for there is no intellectual component, just like an animal. My point being what people may call love may just be emotion tied very strongly to their reactive ego lower self......ONS..Tony. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 13, 2004 Report Share Posted January 13, 2004 Tony said My point being what people may call love may just be emotion tied very strongly to their reactive ego lower self......ONS..Tony.Chris is saying. I agree Tony but its the best we can do. It would be good if we had an entirely different word for what is our best shot at loving as the Divine loves which is totally unconditional. At the level of the "actor in the play" unconditional love is well nigh impossible as there is always an agenda a reward even if its only the good feeling that we get in our moment of "loving". With the sage loving is at an entirely different level. Spontaneous without any seeking of pay value though that may happen. I'm not saying this never happens at the lowest level but if it does it probably is an act of the divine through us. How else could He act. Though it is now my concept that I am not the doer and neither is anyone else, all is Consciousness in action as apposed to Consciousness at rest. i.e. Manifest or Un-manifest. I had a discussion on this with a lady friend who said what about a Mothers love. I had to agree that it is virtually unconditional except for one point. The recipient of her love had to be her offspring and that is a condition. Re You are not the doer. If you look at what happens during the day you will see that nothing happens by itself or in isolation. Today a letter was wrongly delivered to us. I set out to repost it. A bus prevented me from going to my usual post box. I stopped at the next one on the wrong side of the road. I reversed into a small space. In the process I nearly knocked a woman over. Thankfully it did not happen. If I had I would have been found guilty of careless driving all because the post man made a mistake. ( tell that to the judge) However the postman was the instrument in getting me out of the house at that time, my conditioning led me to this act of reposting the mail. If I had ended up in court it was my destiny to do so and the pedestrians destiny to be knocked down. Events happen Deeds are done There is no individual doer thereof Love and respect Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 13, 2004 Report Share Posted January 13, 2004 , "AnneChris" <am009a8716@b...> wrote: > Tony said > My point being what people may call love may just be emotion > tied very strongly to their reactive ego lower self......ONS..Tony. > > > Chris is saying. > I agree Tony but its the best we can do. Namaste Chris,IMO Then it is not good enough. Jesus said 'Be ye perfect as my father in heaven is perfect'. IOW we have to purify our samskaras and vasanas and be aware of what 'Who am I?" means. Here is something I wrote a few years ago and still haven'tn got ther myself hahahah.....ONS....Tony. http://www.geocities.com/aoclery/PurificationofBuddhi.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 13, 2004 Report Share Posted January 13, 2004 , "Tony OClery" <aoclery> wrote: > > Namaste Chris,IMO > > Then it is not good enough. Jesus said 'Be ye perfect as my father > in heaven is perfect'. IOW we have to purify our samskaras and > vasanas and be aware of what 'Who am I?" means. > Here is something I wrote a few years ago and still haven'tn got > ther myself hahahah.....ONS....Tony. > http://www.geocities.com/aoclery/PurificationofBuddhi.htm Did Jesus also say "Purify your samskaras and vasanas"? I would imagine he knew it is only an ego that would embark on such a task. And since the ego is the one that's got all the samskaras and vasanas in the first place...and the ego, inquired into, is seen to have no substantial reality whatsoever (after all, it comes and goes)...there would be nothing and no one left to purify. Of course none of us has "gotten there," and hopefully none of us is holding his/her breath...because the one who's trying to get there hasn't got a chance, simply because it isn't even real. And neither is the "there" it's trying to get to! (I smell dinner. Bye, all! Kheyala) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 14, 2004 Report Share Posted January 14, 2004 Kheyala Wrote Did Jesus also say "Purify your samskaras and vasanas"? I would imagine he knew it is only an ego that would embark on such a task. And since the ego is the one that's got all the samskaras and vasanas in the first place...and the ego, inquired into, is seen to have no substantial reality whatsoever (after all, it comes and goes)...there would be nothing and no one left to purify.Of course none of us has "gotten there," and hopefully none of us is holding his/her breath...because the one who's trying to get there hasn't got a chance, simply because it isn't even real. And neither is the "there" it's trying to get to!Chris Writes I am in total agreement Kheyala. If there was a there which we could get to by our own effort, we would all be realized. According to Ramesh if we are destined to be God Realized it will happen and ultimately there is no creation and no dissolution anyway. Again if it is programmed at some point in time seeking stops and it is realized that all knowledge is conceptial and is seen as standing in the way of self realization (knowledge is not Truth The moment Truth is spoken of it becomes a concept) The attainment of realization no longer matters. Ramana and for that matter Eckhart Tolle, Byron Katie and no doubt some others had sudden awakenings without any spiritual work. It was their programming, destiny, cosmic law and the will of God. As long as the me thinks I am the doer it will continue to strive for realization as a goal and not find it anywhere leading to all kinds of frustration. Ramesh has written a book "The end of confusion" where all points are covered very well. if you want a more in-depth book by him read " The ultimate understanding" The whole problem is the sense of doership. The enlightened being does not have this. The ego wants to know That which cant be known. " I can make it on my own !!!" and God laughs. About the only thing which the church says which I can agree with is. " God is not knowable " so why all the ritual, dogma etc that has sprung up when Gods will is not knowable? Basically it does not work. It gives comfort within the play but that would seem to be the limit of its effect. I have been brought to the conclusion that it is not important or essential for me to be self realized so seeking has come to an end and peace with this turnabout has come with the end of years of frustration and trying to "get it right" and comparison with the others level of knowledge and spirituality has also ceased. I surrender to what is in this moment. With respect for all Chris /join "Love itself is the actual form of God."Sri RamanaIn "Letters from Sri Ramanasramam" by Suri Nagamma To visit your group on the web, go to:/ To from this group, send an email to: Your use of Groups is subject to the Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 14, 2004 Report Share Posted January 14, 2004 , "kheyalove" <kheyala@n...> wrote: > , "Tony OClery" <aoclery> > wrote: > > > > > Namaste Chris,IMO > > > > Then it is not good enough. Jesus said 'Be ye perfect as my father > > in heaven is perfect'. IOW we have to purify our samskaras and > > vasanas and be aware of what 'Who am I?" means. > > Here is something I wrote a few years ago and still haven'tn got > > ther myself hahahah.....ONS....Tony. > > http://www.geocities.com/aoclery/PurificationofBuddhi.htm > > > > Did Jesus also say "Purify your samskaras and vasanas"? I would > imagine he knew it is only an ego that would embark on such a task. > > And since the ego is the one that's got all the samskaras and vasanas > in the first place...and the ego, inquired into, is seen to have no > substantial reality whatsoever (after all, it comes and goes)...there > would be nothing and no one left to purify. > > Of course none of us has "gotten there," and hopefully none of us is > holding his/her breath...because the one who's trying to get there > hasn't got a chance, simply because it isn't even real. And neither > is the "there" it's trying to get to! > > (I smell dinner. Bye, all! Kheyala) Namaste, The ego of course has all the vasanas and samskaras, but if you read the piece, you would notice a question-statement from a female sannyasin into Ramana. She said you have to have a certain amount of awareness to even practise 'Who am I?'. IOW is it these vasanas and samskaras that prevent our realisation, otherwise everyone who read Ramana would now be free..........ONS...Tony. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 14, 2004 Report Share Posted January 14, 2004 of its effect. > I have been brought to the conclusion that it is not important or essential for me to be self realized so seeking has come to an end and peace with this turnabout has come with the end of years of frustration and trying to "get it right" and comparison with the others level of knowledge and spirituality has also ceased. I surrender to what is in this moment. > With respect for all > Chris Namaste, Purify the samskaras they are the chains that bind........ONS...Tony. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 14, 2004 Report Share Posted January 14, 2004 Dear Cris what a wonderful statement i f its not made out of resignation live in the moment b u t with the inner knowledge you found again all the best michael bindel >"Tony OClery" > >To: > Re: What is Love? (for Tony) >Wed, 14 Jan 2004 16:06:50 -0000 > >--- In (AT) (DOT) limit of its effect. > > I have been brought to the conclusion that it is not important or >essential for me to be self realized so seeking has come to an end >and peace with this turnabout has come with the end of years of >frustration and trying to "get it right" and comparison with the >others level of knowledge and spirituality has also ceased. I >surrender to what is in this moment. > > With respect for all > > Chris > >Namaste, > >Purify the samskaras they are the chains that bind........ONS...Tony. > > MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 14, 2004 Report Share Posted January 14, 2004 Dear Tony, --- Tony OClery <aoclery wrote: > , "kheyalove" > <kheyala@n...> > wrote: > > , "Tony > OClery" > <aoclery> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Namaste Chris,IMO > > > > > > Then it is not good enough. Jesus said 'Be ye > perfect as my > father > > > in heaven is perfect'. IOW we have to purify our > samskaras and > > > vasanas and be aware of what 'Who am I?" means. > > > Here is something I wrote a few years ago and > still haven'tn got > > > ther myself hahahah.....ONS....Tony. > > > > http://www.geocities.com/aoclery/PurificationofBuddhi.htm > > > > > > > > Did Jesus also say "Purify your samskaras and > vasanas"? I would > > imagine he knew it is only an ego that would > embark on such a > task. > > > > And since the ego is the one that's got all the > samskaras and > vasanas > > in the first place...and the ego, inquired into, > is seen to have > no > > substantial reality whatsoever (after all, it > comes and > goes)...there > > would be nothing and no one left to purify. > > > > Of course none of us has "gotten there," and > hopefully none of us > is > > holding his/her breath...because the one who's > trying to get there > > hasn't got a chance, simply because it isn't even > real. And > neither > > is the "there" it's trying to get to! > > > > (I smell dinner. Bye, all! Kheyala) > > Namaste, > > The ego of course has all the vasanas and samskaras, > but if you read > the piece, you would notice a question-statement > from a female > sannyasin into Ramana. She said you have to have a > certain amount of > awareness to even practise 'Who am I?'. IOW is it > these vasanas and > samskaras that prevent our realisation, otherwise > everyone who read > Ramana would now be free..........ONS...Tony. > You are free. You are even free to say or to think "I am not free!" Think "bound" and you're "bound". Be free from all those thoughts and you're "free". The thought that "I am not free" is the ultimate cause of bondage. michael Hotjobs: Enter the "Signing Bonus" Sweepstakes http://hotjobs.sweepstakes./signingbonus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 14, 2004 Report Share Posted January 14, 2004 , "Tony OClery" <aoclery> wrote: > , "kheyalove" <kheyala@n...> > wrote: > > , "Tony OClery" > <aoclery> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Namaste Chris,IMO > > > > > > Then it is not good enough. Jesus said 'Be ye perfect as my > father > > > in heaven is perfect'. IOW we have to purify our samskaras and > > > vasanas and be aware of what 'Who am I?" means. > > > Here is something I wrote a few years ago and still haven'tn got > > > ther myself hahahah.....ONS....Tony. > > > http://www.geocities.com/aoclery/PurificationofBuddhi.htm > > > > > > > > Did Jesus also say "Purify your samskaras and vasanas"? I would > > imagine he knew it is only an ego that would embark on such a > task. > > > > And since the ego is the one that's got all the samskaras and > vasanas > > in the first place...and the ego, inquired into, is seen to have > no > > substantial reality whatsoever (after all, it comes and > goes)...there > > would be nothing and no one left to purify. > > > > Of course none of us has "gotten there," and hopefully none of us > is > > holding his/her breath...because the one who's trying to get there > > hasn't got a chance, simply because it isn't even real. And > neither > > is the "there" it's trying to get to! > > > > (I smell dinner. Bye, all! Kheyala) > > Namaste, > > The ego of course has all the vasanas and samskaras, but if you read > the piece, you would notice a question-statement from a female > sannyasin into Ramana. She said you have to have a certain amount of > awareness to even practise 'Who am I?'. IOW is it these vasanas and > samskaras that prevent our realisation, otherwise everyone who read > Ramana would now be free..........ONS...Tony. Everything after the "but," tells me you didn't hear a word I said! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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