Fw: [awakenedawareness] Lakshmana Swamy - Self-enquiry

January 27, 2004

- Ben Hassine

awakenedawareness

Tuesday, January 27, 2004 5:49 PM

[awakenedawareness] Lakshmana Swamy - Self-enquiry

Typed from No Mind -- I Am the Self by David Godman, chapter 8: Sadhana, section

Self-enquiry, pages 87-92

Self-enquiry

Lakshmana Swamy realised the Self through a spontaneous act of self-enquiry. He

now teaches that this method (that is, scrutinising the nature of the

'I'-thought or seeking its origin), is the most direct way of realising the

Self. This is the same method that Sri Ramana taught for nearly 50 years. Sri

Ramana recommended it to almost everyone who came to him for advise, but Sri

Lakshmana feels that it can only be successfully practised by devotees who have

attained some degree of mind control. Sri Ramana himself sometimes admitted that

self-enquiry could only be practised by 'ripe souls', but that didn't stop him

from encouraging most of his visitors to adopt the technique.

It is not necessary to give a detailed account of the method here since it has

already been described in chapter two (p. 14-15). However, a brief summary may

be helpful. According to both Sri Ramana and Sri Lakshmana the 'I'-thought

rises from the Heart, identifies itself with the body and creates the illusion

of an individual self by identifying itself with all the body's thoughts and

perceptions. if one can focus all one's attention on the 'I'-thought, that is,

on the inner feeling of 'I' or 'I Am', ignoring all other mental activities,

then the 'I'-thought will stop identifying with thoughts and perceptions and

start to subside in its source, the Heart. When it has completely subsided into

the Heart the illusion of the individual self vanishes.

As an aid to keeping one's attention on the 'I'-thought both Ramana Maharshi and

Lashmana Swamy recommend asking oneself 'Who am I?' or 'Where does this 'I' come

from?' In the following quotations (first quote Sri Ramana, following quotes

Lakshmna Swamy --Ben) Sri Ramana explains how this process works and describes

how the method can be used to discover that the mind is an unreal or illusory

entity.

"The mind will subside only by means of the enquiry 'Who am I?'. The thought

'Who am I?', destroying all other thoughts, will itself be finally destroyed

like the stick used for stirring the funeral pyre. If other thoughts rise one

should, without attempting to complete them, enquire 'To whom did they rise?'.

What does it matter how many thoughts rise? At the very moment that each

thought rises, if one vigilantly enquires 'To whom did this rise?', it will be

known 'To me'. If one then enquires 'Who am I?' the mind will turn back to its

source [the Self] and the thought that had risen will also subside. By

repeatedly practising thus, the power of the mind to abide in its source

increases.

If the mind becomes introverted through enquiry into the source of the

aham-vritti [the 'I'-thought], the vasanas [mental habits or tendencies] become

extinct. The light of the Self falls on the vasanas and produces the phenomenon

of reflection we call mind. Thus, when the vasanas become extinct the mind also

disappears, being absorbed into the light of the one reality, the Heart.

This is the sum and substance of all that an aspirant need know. What is

imperatively required of him is an earnest and one-pointed enquiry into the

source of the aham-vritti.

When the mind unceasingly investigates its own nature it transpires that there

is no such thing as mind. This is the direct path for all. The mind is merely

thoughts. Of all the thoughts the thought 'I' is the root. Therefore the mind

is only the thought 'I'. From where does this 'I' arise? Seek for it within; it

then vanishes. This is the pursuit of wisdom."

-Sri Ramana Maharshi

(Now follow the dialogues with Lakshmana Swami --Ben)

Question: I have been practising self-enquiry. I ask myself 'Who am I?' and I

get to a stage where I realise that I am not the mind. This is followed by a

feeling of emptiness. How is one to go beyond this feeling?

Swamy: Who says that he is not the mind and who experiences the emptiness?

Question: I don not understand.

Swamy: It is your mind. All your experiences and questions are still within the

mind. Deciding that you are not the mind is an activity of the mind.

Experiencing a feeling of emptiness is also an experience of the mind. If you

want to go beyond the mind by self-enquiry you should not stop with experiences

or mental judgements. You must keep up the quest 'Who am I?'. Ask yourself 'Who

experiences emptiness?', 'Who thinks that he is not the mind?'. Pursue the

quest earnestly by questioning thoughts as soon as they arise. Eventually the

'I' will go back to its source and experience the bliss of the Self. Don't be

satisfied with answers to the question 'Who am I?', or with experiences --

these are all in the mind.

Swamy: The first thought to appear is the 'I'-thought. It rises in the Heart

and, in a split second, travels to the brain, identifies with the body and the

senses, and then sees the world around it as a real world.

Follow the quest 'Who am I?'. Follow the 'I' back to its source. When the 'I'

goes back to its source and identifies with the Self instead of with the

senses, there is eternal peace and bliss. To do this you have to get rid of all

thoughts. The first of all thoughts is the 'I'-thought. Give up all other

thoughts and catch hold of the 'I'-thought. The Self will then embrace that 'I'

and devour it.

Swamy: Effort and grace are both necessary in order to follow the quest

successfully, but without vichara [self-enquiry] there is no grace, and without

grace there is no vichara.

You can hold onto the 'I'-thought by your own effort; more than that you cannot

do. If the candle comes near the sun what will happen? It will melt away. The

same thing will happen to the mind if you hold onto the 'I'-thought. When it

goes back to its source in the Heart, the Self will consume it until only the

Self remains. In the Self there is no 'I'-thought, there is no mind, and there

are no thoughts.

Question: Is it necessary to practise self-enquiry in a sitting position?

Swamy: If the mind continues with its thoughts, then sitting meditation is of no

use. The mind has to be still. When the mind is still there is bliss. If you can

repeatedly dive into the Self by following the quest 'Who am I?', and abide

there, this will lead to constant Self-abidance.

Question: When I look into who I am, the mind becomes still. After a few

moments' silence I find myself in the middle of thoughts again. Then I remember

the self-enquiry again and become silent for a while. Then I forget again. It

goes on like this all day long.

Swamy: Yes, it is like this, but with more and more practice the mind becomes still.

For me this world is a waking dream. If you are in this state, then there is no

birth or death for you; or sleep. First look into yourself. Just sit every day

for half an hour and look into the source of the 'I'. Ask yourself, 'What is

this 'I'?'

Without thought there is bliss. Thought itself is pain.

Question: Sometimes questions come up. They are in the mind of course. Should I

just disregard them and go on with the quest, or should I look for an answer?

Swamy: Go on with the quest and leave them alone.

Question: Can I also meditate on Ramana Maharshi's form?

Swamy: If you follow the quest earnestly, then meditating on Ramana Maharshi's

form will not be necessary. What are name and form? They exist only in

ignorance. Self-enquiry is the shortest way to Self-realisation. However, one

has to be an advanced devotee in order to make the mind go back to its source

through the quest 'Who am I?'.

Question: In self-enquiry, after concentrating the mind, I become aware of the

thoughts and enquire as to their source, and I find that it is an 'I am', a

beingness that is present before and after every passing thought. Then I just

try to hold on to this sense of 'I am', and when any thought arises I just try

to bring the mind back to it. Is this practice correct? Is anything else

needed?

Swamy: In self-enquiry you have to catch hold of the 'I'-thought by giving up

other thoughts. If other thoughts intrude ask yourself 'For whom are these

thoughts' and you will find that the answer is 'They are occurring to me'. Then

question yourself as to who is this 'I' that is knowing these thoughts, or ask

yourself, 'Where does this 'I' come from?' If you are ripe, that is, free from

other thoughts, the 'I' dives into itself and experiences the bliss of the

Self. In the end the 'I', which is the mind, must die. The mind won't kill the

mind by itself so the Grace of the Guru, who is the Self, is most important.

The death of the mind is Self-realisation. As there is no mind after

realisation, the Self remains alone, one without a second.

It is eternal peace and bliss and it is beyond time and death.

It is difficult to reach that beingness that you describe. Beingness means 'I

am' and 'I am' means the Self. When the mind is quiet it may experience a

little of the bliss that is emanating from the Self, but you will not

experience pure beingness until the 'I'-thought has completely subsided into

the Heart. Your imagination is making you think that a peaceful or blissful

experience of the 'I'-thought is an experience of 'I am' or the Self. This

belief has arisen because of ignorance, because you have not experienced the

real 'I' as it really is.

First keep the mind still, that is, without thoughts.

Swamy: The quest 'Who am I?' is to seek the source of the mind, to find out

where in the body the 'I'-thought arises. Whenever an advanced devotee becomes

aware of the 'I'-thought within him, he will find that it subsides and finally

disappears in the Heart-centre on the right side of the chest. When the

'I'-thought subsides into the Heart and finally dies, this is realisation.

Making the 'I'-thought subside into the Heart is very difficult. It can only be

done by advanced devotees or by those who have practised meditation for a long

time. For beginners it is usually better to meditate on the name and form of

their God or Guru. When they have succeeded in steadying their mind by this

method, they will find self-enquiry much easier.

Swamy: What is religion? I don't know the answer to that. I don't know anything

about all these religions. So many religions, all insisting that they know the

truth. Hindus say that the Bhagavad Gita contains the truth, the Christians say

that the truth can only be found in the Bible while the Muslims say that it is

all in the Koran.

Followers of different religions are always fighting and quarrelling with each

other about whose religion is correct. Sometimes they even have wars because

they cannot agree on what truth is. No one wants to give up their life in

search of truth, which is what is required for self-realisation, but many

people will happily kill someone else just to prove that their beliefs are the

only correct ones.

At the end of all religious paths there is the quest 'Who am I?'. Until that

question is satisfactorily answered no one can claim to know what the truth is

or what God is. The ultimate instruction in all religions should therefore be

'Know thyself'. When one looks for the source of the 'I' by asking the question

'Who am I?', the 'I' or the mind sinks into the Heart and experiences the bliss

of the Self. When the individual 'I' dies at the end of the quest only the Self

remains. That Self is not Hindu, not Christian and not Buddhist because it has

no name, no form and no religion.

This path of self-enquiry was taught by Bhagavan Sri Ramana. He knew, from his

direct experience of the Self, that the 'I' must go back into the Heart and

die. He also knew that self-enquiry was the only direct way to make this

happen. Actually, the method is not a new one. The sage Vasishta taught it to

Rama in the Yoga Vashista, but most people had forgotten about this. Ramana

Maharshi was only reviving a technique that had been taught and practised long

ago.

How can I be a Hindu or a Christian? Is this body a Hindu? The body is inert,

being composed of the five elements; it has no religious beliefs. Is the mind a

Hindu? There is no mind and no individual self after Self-realisation, so how

can something that does not exist be a Hindu? The Self cannot be a Hindu

because it is nameless and formless.

The followers of different religions quarrel about truth because they have never

experienced it. Most of them don't even try to experience it; they are much

happier quarrelling, fighting and killing each other. The truth is actually

very simple; when the individual self dies in the Heart, which is what happens

if one successfully follows the quest 'Who am I?', the Self alone remains, one

without a second. That Self is truth, that Self is God. What can be simpler

than that? But people don't want simplicity, they want something complicated so

that they can argue and fight over it.

PS - to be continued. Next post will contain dialogues with Mathru Sri Sarada,

the adopted daughter of Lakshmana Swamy. She realised the Self when she was 18

years old.

Yours,

Ben.

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January 27, 2004

Thanks Ben. Please feel free to post this on HS as

well.

Love,

Harsha

--- Ben Hassine <ben.hassine wrote:

>

> -

> Ben Hassine

> awakenedawareness

> Tuesday, January 27, 2004 5:49 PM

> [awakenedawareness] Lakshmana Swamy -

> Self-enquiry

>

=====

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January 27, 2004

- Ben Hassine

awakenedawareness

Tuesday, January 27, 2004 11:49 AM

[awakenedawareness] Lakshmana Swamy - Self-enquiry

Typed from No Mind -- I Am the Self by David Godman, chapter 8:

Sadhana, section Self-enquiry, pages 87-92

Self-enquiry

Lakshmana Swamy realised the Self through a spontaneous act of

self-enquiry. He now teaches that this method (that is, scrutinising

the nature of the 'I'-thought or seeking its origin), is the most

direct way of realising the Self. This is the same method that Sri

Ramana taught for nearly 50 years. Sri Ramana recommended it to

almost everyone who came to him for advise, but Sri Lakshmana feels

that it can only be successfully practised by devotees who have

attained some degree of mind control. Sri Ramana himself sometimes

admitted that self-enquiry could only be practised by 'ripe souls',

but that didn't stop him from encouraging most of his visitors to

adopt the technique.

It is not necessary to give a detailed account of the method here

since it has already been described in chapter two (p. 14-15).

However, a brief summary may be helpful. According to both Sri Ramana

and Sri Lakshmana the 'I'-thought rises from the Heart, identifies

itself with the body and creates the illusion of an individual self

by identifying itself with all the body's thoughts and perceptions.

if one can focus all one's attention on the 'I'-thought, that is, on

the inner feeling of 'I' or 'I Am', ignoring all other mental

activities, then the 'I'-thought will stop identifying with thoughts

and perceptions and start to subside in its source, the Heart. When

it has completely subsided into the Heart the illusion of the

individual self vanishes.

As an aid to keeping one's attention on the 'I'-thought both Ramana

Maharshi and Lashmana Swamy recommend asking oneself 'Who am I?' or

'Where does this 'I' come from?' In the following quotations (first

quote Sri Ramana, following quotes Lakshmna Swamy --Ben) Sri Ramana

explains how this process works and describes how the method can be

used to discover that the mind is an unreal or illusory entity.

"The mind will subside only by means of the enquiry 'Who am I?'. The

thought 'Who am I?', destroying all other thoughts, will itself be

finally destroyed like the stick used for stirring the funeral pyre.

If other thoughts rise one should, without attempting to complete

them, enquire 'To whom did they rise?'. What does it matter how many

thoughts rise? At the very moment that each thought rises, if one

vigilantly enquires 'To whom did this rise?', it will be known 'To

me'. If one then enquires 'Who am I?' the mind will turn back to its

source [the Self] and the thought that had risen will also subside.

By repeatedly practising thus, the power of the mind to abide in its

source increases.

If the mind becomes introverted through enquiry into the source of the

aham-vritti [the 'I'-thought], the vasanas [mental habits or

tendencies] become extinct. The light of the Self falls on the

vasanas and produces the phenomenon of reflection we call mind. Thus,

when the vasanas become extinct the mind also disappears, being

absorbed into the light of the one reality, the Heart.

This is the sum and substance of all that an aspirant need know. What

is imperatively required of him is an earnest and one-pointed enquiry

into the source of the aham-vritti.

When the mind unceasingly investigates its own nature it transpires

that there is no such thing as mind. This is the direct path for all.

The mind is merely thoughts. Of all the thoughts the thought 'I' is

the root. Therefore the mind is only the thought 'I'. From where does

this 'I' arise? Seek for it within; it then vanishes. This is the

pursuit of wisdom."

-Sri Ramana Maharshi

(Now follow the dialogues with Lakshmana Swami --Ben)

Question: I have been practising self-enquiry. I ask myself 'Who am

I?' and I get to a stage where I realise that I am not the mind. This

is followed by a feeling of emptiness. How is one to go beyond this

feeling?

Swamy: Who says that he is not the mind and who experiences the emptiness?

Question: I don not understand.

Swamy: It is your mind. All your experiences and questions are still

within the mind. Deciding that you are not the mind is an activity of

the mind. Experiencing a feeling of emptiness is also an experience of

the mind. If you want to go beyond the mind by self-enquiry you should

not stop with experiences or mental judgements. You must keep up the

quest 'Who am I?'. Ask yourself 'Who experiences emptiness?', 'Who

thinks that he is not the mind?'. Pursue the quest earnestly by

questioning thoughts as soon as they arise. Eventually the 'I' will

go back to its source and experience the bliss of the Self. Don't be

satisfied with answers to the question 'Who am I?', or with

experiences -- these are all in the mind.

Swamy: The first thought to appear is the 'I'-thought. It rises in the

Heart and, in a split second, travels to the brain, identifies with

the body and the senses, and then sees the world around it as a real

world.

Follow the quest 'Who am I?'. Follow the 'I' back to its source. When

the 'I' goes back to its source and identifies with the Self instead

of with the senses, there is eternal peace and bliss. To do this you

have to get rid of all thoughts. The first of all thoughts is the

'I'-thought. Give up all other thoughts and catch hold of the

'I'-thought. The Self will then embrace that 'I' and devour it.

Swamy: Effort and grace are both necessary in order to follow the

quest successfully, but without vichara [self-enquiry] there is no

grace, and without grace there is no vichara.

You can hold onto the 'I'-thought by your own effort; more than that

you cannot do. If the candle comes near the sun what will happen? It

will melt away. The same thing will happen to the mind if you hold

onto the 'I'-thought. When it goes back to its source in the Heart,

the Self will consume it until only the Self remains. In the Self

there is no 'I'-thought, there is no mind, and there are no thoughts.

Question: Is it necessary to practise self-enquiry in a sitting position?

Swamy: If the mind continues with its thoughts, then sitting

meditation is of no use. The mind has to be still. When the mind is

still there is bliss. If you can repeatedly dive into the Self by

following the quest 'Who am I?', and abide there, this will lead to

constant Self-abidance.

Question: When I look into who I am, the mind becomes still. After a

few moments' silence I find myself in the middle of thoughts again.

Then I remember the self-enquiry again and become silent for a while.

Then I forget again. It goes on like this all day long.

Swamy: Yes, it is like this, but with more and more practice the mind becomes still.

For me this world is a waking dream. If you are in this state, then

there is no birth or death for you; or sleep. First look into

yourself. Just sit every day for half an hour and look into the

source of the 'I'. Ask yourself, 'What is this 'I'?'

Without thought there is bliss. Thought itself is pain.

Question: Sometimes questions come up. They are in the mind of course.

Should I just disregard them and go on with the quest, or should I

look for an answer?

Swamy: Go on with the quest and leave them alone.

Question: Can I also meditate on Ramana Maharshi's form?

Swamy: If you follow the quest earnestly, then meditating on Ramana

Maharshi's form will not be necessary. What are name and form? They

exist only in ignorance. Self-enquiry is the shortest way to

Self-realisation. However, one has to be an advanced devotee in order

to make the mind go back to its source through the quest 'Who am I?'.

Question: In self-enquiry, after concentrating the mind, I become

aware of the thoughts and enquire as to their source, and I find that

it is an 'I am', a beingness that is present before and after every

passing thought. Then I just try to hold on to this sense of 'I am',

and when any thought arises I just try to bring the mind back to it.

Is this practice correct? Is anything else needed?

Swamy: In self-enquiry you have to catch hold of the 'I'-thought by

giving up other thoughts. If other thoughts intrude ask yourself 'For

whom are these thoughts' and you will find that the answer is 'They

are occurring to me'. Then question yourself as to who is this 'I'

that is knowing these thoughts, or ask yourself, 'Where does this 'I'

come from?' If you are ripe, that is, free from other thoughts, the

'I' dives into itself and experiences the bliss of the Self. In the

end the 'I', which is the mind, must die. The mind won't kill the

mind by itself so the Grace of the Guru, who is the Self, is most

important. The death of the mind is Self-realisation. As there is no

mind after realisation, the Self remains alone, one without a second.

It is eternal peace and bliss and it is beyond time and death.

It is difficult to reach that beingness that you describe. Beingness

means 'I am' and 'I am' means the Self. When the mind is quiet it may

experience a little of the bliss that is emanating from the Self, but

you will not experience pure beingness until the 'I'-thought has

completely subsided into the Heart. Your imagination is making you

think that a peaceful or blissful experience of the 'I'-thought is an

experience of 'I am' or the Self. This belief has arisen because of

ignorance, because you have not experienced the real 'I' as it really

is.

First keep the mind still, that is, without thoughts.

Swamy: The quest 'Who am I?' is to seek the source of the mind, to

find out where in the body the 'I'-thought arises. Whenever an

advanced devotee becomes aware of the 'I'-thought within him, he will

find that it subsides and finally disappears in the Heart-centre on

the right side of the chest. When the 'I'-thought subsides into the

Heart and finally dies, this is realisation.

Making the 'I'-thought subside into the Heart is very difficult. It

can only be done by advanced devotees or by those who have practised

meditation for a long time. For beginners it is usually better to

meditate on the name and form of their God or Guru. When they have

succeeded in steadying their mind by this method, they will find

self-enquiry much easier.

Swamy: What is religion? I don't know the answer to that. I don't know

anything about all these religions. So many religions, all insisting

that they know the truth. Hindus say that the Bhagavad Gita contains

the truth, the Christians say that the truth can only be found in the

Bible while the Muslims say that it is all in the Koran.

Followers of different religions are always fighting and quarrelling

with each other about whose religion is correct. Sometimes they even

have wars because they cannot agree on what truth is. No one wants to

give up their life in search of truth, which is what is required for

self-realisation, but many people will happily kill someone else just

to prove that their beliefs are the only correct ones.

At the end of all religious paths there is the quest 'Who am I?'.

Until that question is satisfactorily answered no one can claim to

know what the truth is or what God is. The ultimate instruction in

all religions should therefore be 'Know thyself'. When one looks for

the source of the 'I' by asking the question 'Who am I?', the 'I' or

the mind sinks into the Heart and experiences the bliss of the Self.

When the individual 'I' dies at the end of the quest only the Self

remains. That Self is not Hindu, not Christian and not Buddhist

because it has no name, no form and no religion.

This path of self-enquiry was taught by Bhagavan Sri Ramana. He knew,

from his direct experience of the Self, that the 'I' must go back

into the Heart and die. He also knew that self-enquiry was the only

direct way to make this happen. Actually, the method is not a new

one. The sage Vasishta taught it to Rama in the Yoga Vashista, but

most people had forgotten about this. Ramana Maharshi was only

reviving a technique that had been taught and practised long ago.

How can I be a Hindu or a Christian? Is this body a Hindu? The body is

inert, being composed of the five elements; it has no religious

beliefs. Is the mind a Hindu? There is no mind and no individual self

after Self-realisation, so how can something that does not exist be a

Hindu? The Self cannot be a Hindu because it is nameless and

formless.

The followers of different religions quarrel about truth because they

have never experienced it. Most of them don't even try to experience

it; they are much happier quarrelling, fighting and killing each

other. The truth is actually very simple; when the individual self

dies in the Heart, which is what happens if one successfully follows

the quest 'Who am I?', the Self alone remains, one without a second.

That Self is truth, that Self is God. What can be simpler than that?

But people don't want simplicity, they want something complicated so

that they can argue and fight over it.

PS - to be continued. Next post will contain dialogues with Mathru Sri

Sarada, the adopted daughter of Lakshmana Swamy. She realised the Self

when she was 18 years old.

---Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.Checked by AVG anti-virus

system (http://www.grisoft.com).Version: 6.0.566 / Virus Database:

357 - Release 1/25/2004To visit your group on the web, go

to:awakenedawareness/ To

from this group, send an email

to:awakenedawareness Your use of

Groups is subject to the

January 27, 2004

Great posting. Keep up the good work. I am looking forward to more posting

from No Mind I Am the Self By David Godman. I have been looking for this book

since a long time. Where did you get it from. I would like to order it if it

is available. I do not mind borrowing it if that is possible.

Thanks

Gus Ben Hassine <ben.hassine (AT) xs4all (DOT) nl> wrote: