Fw: [MillionPaths] Untying The Ego - story by Mother Amma

[Guest guest]

- viorica weissman

MillionPaths

Cc: NamoRamana

Friday, January 30, 2004 12:06 PM

[MillionPaths] Untying The Ego - story by Mother Amma

There was a cowherd boy who took his cows to the meadows every

morning and brought them back to the cowshed at the end of the day.

One evening, as he was tying the cows up for the night, the boy found

that one of them was missing her rope. He feared that she might run

away, but it was too late to go and buy a new rope. The boy didn't

know what to do, so he went to a wise man who lived nearby and sought

his advice. The wise man told the boy to pretend to tie the cow, and

make sure that the cow saw him doing it. The boy did as the wise man

suggested and pretended to tie the cow. The next morning the boy

discovered that the cow had remained still throughout the night. He

untied all the cows as usual, and they all went outside. He was about

to go to the meadows when he noticed that the cow with the missing

rope was still in the cowshed. She was standing on the same spot

where she had been all night. He tried to coax her to join the herd,

but she wouldn't budge. The boy was perplexed. He went back to the

wise man who said, "The cow still thinks she is tied up. Go back and

pretend to untie her." The boy did as he was told, and the cow

happily left the cowshed. This is what the guru does with the ego of

the disciple. The guru helps untie that which was never there. Like

the cow, due to our ignorance, we believe that we are bound by the

ego when, in fact, we are completely free. We need to be convinced of

this, however.

-Mother Amma (Mata Amritanandamayi)

http://peacefulrivers.homestead.com/TeachingStories.html

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[Guest guest]

, "Gloria Lee" <glee@c...>

wrote:

>

> -

> viorica weissman

> MillionPaths

> Cc: NamoRamana

> Friday, January 30, 2004 12:06 PM

> [MillionPaths] Untying The Ego - story by Mother Amma

>

>

> There was a cowherd boy who took his cows to the meadows every

morning and brought them back to the cowshed at the end of the day.

One evening, as he was tying the cows up for the night, the boy

found that one of them was missing her rope. He feared that she

might run away, but it was too late to go and buy a new rope. The

boy didn't know what to do, so he went to a wise man who lived

nearby and sought his advice. The wise man told the boy to pretend

to tie the cow, and make sure that the cow saw him doing it. The boy

did as the wise man suggested and pretended to tie the cow. The next

morning the boy discovered that the cow had remained still

throughout the night. He untied all the cows as usual, and they all

went outside. He was about to go to the meadows when he noticed that

the cow with the missing rope was still in the cowshed. She was

standing on the same spot where she had been all night. He tried to

coax her to join the herd, but she wouldn't budge. The boy was

perplexed. He went back to the wise man who said, "The cow still

thinks she is tied up. Go back and pretend to untie her." The boy

did as he was told, and the cow happily left the cowshed. This is

what the guru does with the ego of the disciple. The guru helps

untie that which was never there. Like the cow, due to our

ignorance, we believe that we are bound by the ego when, in fact, we

are completely free. We need to be convinced of this, however.

>

>

> -Mother Amma (Mata Amritanandamayi)

 

Namaste,

 

A nice story, but not original, and one that originated in the

ancient scriptures and teachings. It may be one of the upanishads,

or so.....I am so far only willing to accept that Ramana is a

Jivanmukta, that's all.......ONS..Tony

[Guest guest]

--- Tony OClery <aoclery wrote:

> , "Gloria Lee"

> <glee@c...>

> wrote:

> >

> > -

> > viorica weissman

> > MillionPaths

> > Cc: NamoRamana

> > Friday, January 30, 2004 12:06 PM

> > [MillionPaths] Untying The Ego - story by

> Mother Amma

> >

> >

> > There was a cowherd boy who took his cows to the

> meadows every

> morning

 

SNIP

> Namaste,

>

> A nice story, but not original, and one that

> originated in the

> ancient scriptures and teachings. It may be one of

> the upanishads,

> or so.....I am so far only willing to accept that

> Ramana is a

> Jivanmukta, that's all.......ONS..Tony

 

Dear Tony,

 

Why not realize that you are "jivanmukta"? Why not

admit to yourself that you are free?

 

michael

[Guest guest]

, "Tony OClery" <aoclery>

wrote:

> , "Gloria Lee" <glee@c...>

> wrote:

> >

> > -

> > viorica weissman

> > MillionPaths

> > Cc: NamoRamana

> > Friday, January 30, 2004 12:06 PM

> > [MillionPaths] Untying The Ego - story by Mother Amma

> >

> >

> > There was a cowherd boy who took his cows to the meadows every

> morning and brought them back to the cowshed at the end of the day.

> One evening, as he was tying the cows up for the night, the boy

> found that one of them was missing her rope. He feared that she

> might run away, but it was too late to go and buy a new rope. The

> boy didn't know what to do, so he went to a wise man who lived

> nearby and sought his advice. The wise man told the boy to pretend

> to tie the cow, and make sure that the cow saw him doing it. The

boy

> did as the wise man suggested and pretended to tie the cow. The

next

> morning the boy discovered that the cow had remained still

> throughout the night. He untied all the cows as usual, and they all

> went outside. He was about to go to the meadows when he noticed

that

> the cow with the missing rope was still in the cowshed. She was

> standing on the same spot where she had been all night. He tried to

> coax her to join the herd, but she wouldn't budge. The boy was

> perplexed. He went back to the wise man who said, "The cow still

> thinks she is tied up. Go back and pretend to untie her." The boy

> did as he was told, and the cow happily left the cowshed. This is

> what the guru does with the ego of the disciple. The guru helps

> untie that which was never there. Like the cow, due to our

> ignorance, we believe that we are bound by the ego when, in fact,

we

> are completely free. We need to be convinced of this, however.

> >

> >

> > -Mother Amma (Mata Amritanandamayi)

>

> Namaste,

>

> A nice story, but not original, and one that originated in the

> ancient scriptures and teachings. It may be one of the upanishads,

> or so.....I am so far only willing to accept that Ramana is a

> Jivanmukta, that's all.......ONS..Tony

 

devi: are you considering that self-realiztion is different that

jivan-mukti?

[Guest guest]

, Michael Bowes

<rmichaelbowes> wrote:

>

> --- Tony OClery <aoclery> wrote:

> > , "Gloria Lee"

> > <glee@c...>

> > wrote:

> > >

> > > -

> > > viorica weissman

> > > MillionPaths

> > > Cc: NamoRamana

> > > Friday, January 30, 2004 12:06 PM

> > > [MillionPaths] Untying The Ego - story by

> > Mother Amma

> > >

> > >

> > > There was a cowherd boy who took his cows to the

> > meadows every

> > morning

>

> SNIP

>

> > Namaste,

> >

> > A nice story, but not original, and one that

> > originated in the

> > ancient scriptures and teachings. It may be one of

> > the upanishads,

> > or so.....I am so far only willing to accept that

> > Ramana is a

> > Jivanmukta, that's all.......ONS..Tony

>

> Dear Tony,

>

> Why not realize that you are "jivanmukta"? Why not

> admit to yourself that you are free?

>

> michael

 

devi: do you think that admitting to yourself that you are free makes

you a jivan-mukti? you make it sound so simple..when i was a flower

child back in the late 60's i thought i was free, but it wasn't that

real freedom of self-realziiton..smiles?

[Guest guest]

, "devianandi> > are completely

free. We need to be convinced of this, however.

> > >

> > >

> > > -Mother Amma (Mata Amritanandamayi)

> >

> > Namaste,

> >

> > A nice story, but not original, and one that originated in the

> > ancient scriptures and teachings. It may be one of the

upanishads,

> > or so.....I am so far only willing to accept that Ramana is a

> > Jivanmukta, that's all.......ONS..Tony

>

> devi: are you considering that self-realiztion is different that

> jivan-mukti?

 

Namaste,

 

No my understanding is basic, there is only one kind if realisation

and that is Mukti. Some Saints hold on to one thought to take

rebirth and help, we call them Bhodisattvas, Avatars or whatever but

they are still embodied,, but mentally dwell in the Brahmaloka.

Some, especially westerners think that knowing what a king is makes

one a king. Ramana said that even his enquiry needs a somewhat

purified mind and level of awareness.........ONS..Tony

[Guest guest]

Tony Wrote

 

....I am so far only willing to accept that Ramana is a Jivanmukta, that's all.......ONS..Chris writes

Accepting one is enough Tony and certainly Ramana is beyond

doubt a Jivanmukta.

If he was alive today I would be at his feet however he has passed on.

If he was alive today he would be inundated with visitors.

 

However I believe that it is helpful to have a live Master to remove ignorance.

 

Its good that you are open to the possibility of there being a living

Jivanmukta even if He has not appeared in your life as yet.

 

Having met both Ramesh and Eckhart and had some awareness of that

which came from them ( call it presence, call it anything you like)in

their silence/stillness. I am convinced that they are genuinely

enlightened.

Their books are for people of this time who don't have the intellect

that you are blessed with. People who cant afford to go to India or

be deeply immersed in ancient books. Though some of Ramesehes books

are very deep.

Ramesh & Eckhart have read these ancient truths and allude to them.

These truths are not diluted in any way just presented in a different

way that resonates with life as it is today.

All teaching is a concept that is why Truth cannot be spoken of only pointed to.

If it could then it would be a thing an object which the Absolute is not.

Namaste Chris

[Guest guest]

Hullo Anne,

This is a fascinating subject that you have raised.

You had an experience in the silent presence of Ramesh and Tolle.

You say this experience was sufficient for you to assert, with

confidence, that R. and T. are genuinely enlightened.

Now I am not arguing whether R. and T. are, or are not, "genuinely

enlightened", whatever that may be.

But there have been many teachers, even in the last forty years, even

in the last ten years, who have flashed across the skies like comets.

Some spiritual seekers loudly proclaim that

Bhagwan/Master............... (fill in your own name of choice)

was/is "definitely enlightened".

Many other erudite and sincere seekers snort and proclaim that this

same one was/is "obviously a charismatic phoney".

One of the most commonly cited reasons for proclaiming that one's

guru-of-choice was/is "enlightened" is that "I had this mystical

transcendent experience (or experiences) while in his presence."

But is this kind of experience enough?

The way I see it, if "enlightenment" means anything, it refers to a

knowledge, or awareness, or consciousness, of who one is in the

deepest essence that goes beyond the realm of time.

If the knowledge, or awareness, or blissful experience, is something

that comes and goes in time then it is not rooted in eternity, it is

another object in the realm of time. A beautiful and loving and

blissful and profound experience no doubt, but if it fades away then

it is not of the essence of what "I" is.

So if a claim is made that "this one is enlightened", we should

approach the one who makes the claim and ask, "Is this experience,

upon which you base your claim, a constant with you? Or does it come

and go? At the very least, is it something which is always available,

rather than something that comes and then disappears, and, when it has

gone, cannot be found until it serendipitously re-appears?"

If it is simply something that comes and goes then, I propose, it is

not the real knowledge of what "I" essentially is.

And, if the claimant is not truly familiar with what the essential "I"

is, how can that one's assertion about another be relied upon?

Furthermore, it is surprising how common it is that someone has the

capacity to arouse "blissful feelings" or "feelings of certainty" in

those whom he meets.

Even in the non-spiritual realms this is not particularly uncommon. It

is particularly common amongst confidence tricksters, and Great

National Leaders, like Chairman Mao, who initiate programs that lead

to widescale death and destruction.

I am not asserting that Ramesh or Eckhardt Tolle belong in either of

these categories; I am simply stating that because the ability to

induce feelings of bliss, certainty and devotion in one's

acquaintances is prevalent amongst confidence tricksters and

political monsters, then we should see that the possession of this

ability by a particular spiritual teacher is no guarantee that she/he

is "genuinely enlightened", whatever that might be.

Please understand that I intend no disrespect to Ramesh or to Eckhardt

Tolle; I am simply enquiring into the matter of how we can be certain

that a particular teacher is "genuinely enlightened".

Sincerely,

WW

-

AnneChris

Monday, February 02, 2004 9:51 AM

Re: Re: Fw: [MillionPaths] Untying The Ego - story by Mother Amma

Tony Wrote

....I am so far only willing to accept that Ramana is a Jivanmukta, that's all.......ONS..Chris writes

Accepting one is enough Tony and certainly Ramana is beyond

doubt a Jivanmukta.

If he was alive today I would be at his feet however he has passed on.

If he was alive today he would be inundated with visitors.

However I believe that it is helpful to have a live Master to remove ignorance.

Its good that you are open to the possibility of there being a living

Jivanmukta even if He has not appeared in your life as yet.

Having met both Ramesh and Eckhart and had some awareness of that

which came from them ( call it presence, call it anything you like)in

their silence/stillness. I am convinced that they are genuinely

enlightened.

Their books are for people of this time who don't have the intellect

that you are blessed with. People who cant afford to go to India or

be deeply immersed in ancient books. Though some of Ramesehes books

are very deep.

Ramesh & Eckhart have read these ancient truths and allude to them.

These truths are not diluted in any way just presented in a different

way that resonates with life as it is today.

All teaching is a concept that is why Truth cannot be spoken of only pointed to.

If it could then it would be a thing an object which the Absolute is not.

Namaste Chris

[Guest guest]

> > > or so.....I am so far only willing to accept that Ramana is a

> > > Jivanmukta, that's all.......ONS..Tony

> >

> > devi: are you considering that self-realiztion is different that

> > jivan-mukti?

>

> Namaste,

>

> No my understanding is basic, there is only one kind if realisation

> and that is Mukti. Some Saints hold on to one thought to take

> rebirth and help, we call them Bhodisattvas, Avatars or whatever

but

> they are still embodied,, but mentally dwell in the Brahmaloka.

> Some, especially westerners think that knowing what a king is makes

> one a king. Ramana said that even his enquiry needs a somewhat

> purified mind and level of awareness.........ONS..Tony

 

devi: i define bhodisattva as someone who has taken refuge in the

buddha the dharma and the sangah..and who deliberatly refrains from

entering nirvana...(as if one has a choice)...because to help

suffering humanity is more important...i define Avatar as someone who

in a previous life attained mukti and has come back to help others

gain mukti....saints are in the catagory of beings who are very close

to God due to their purity or visa versa..sinners are the opposite of

saints...

 

can you explain to me what is bramaloka? have you been there?

 

 

and, i'm wondering if you have taken a look at sarlos guru

ratings..i'm thinking that there are probabaly 1000 people listed who

in one form or another intimate they are *enlightnened* or

*muktied*..smiles

[Guest guest]

, "Gloria Lee" <glee@c...> wrote:

>

> -

> viorica weissman

> MillionPaths

> Cc: NamoRamana

> Friday, January 30, 2004 12:06 PM

> [MillionPaths] Untying The Ego - story by Mother Amma

>

>

> There was a cowherd boy who took his cows to the meadows every

morning and brought them back to the cowshed at the end of the day.

One evening, as he was tying the cows up for the night, the boy found

that one of them was missing her rope. He feared that she might run

away, but it was too late to go and buy a new rope. The boy didn't

know what to do, so he went to a wise man who lived nearby and sought

his advice. The wise man told the boy to pretend to tie the cow, and

make sure that the cow saw him doing it. The boy did as the wise man

suggested and pretended to tie the cow. The next morning the boy

discovered that the cow had remained still throughout the night. He

untied all the cows as usual, and they all went outside. He was about

to go to the meadows when he noticed that the cow with the missing

rope was still in the cowshed. She was standing on the same spot

where she had been all night. He tried to coax her to join the herd,

but she wouldn't budge. The boy was perplexed. He went back to the

wise man who said, "The cow still thinks she is tied up. Go back and

pretend to untie her." The boy did as he was told, and the cow

happily left the cowshed. This is what the guru does with the ego of

the disciple. The guru helps untie that which was never there. Like

the cow, due to our ignorance, we believe that we are bound by the

ego when, in fact, we are completely free. We need to be convinced of

this, however.

 

How might this "conviction" be accomplished?

 

LOL...this story reminds me of the story about the lion who, as an

abandoned baby lion, was raised by goats to be a goat and lived as a

goat until, with the help of another lion (guru), he discovered by

looking into a pond at his own reflection that he, a goat, was

acctually A LION all along!

 

For myself, I finally became convinced by reading something Balsekar

wrote - something I had read many times and almost everything

published on Ramana's teachings. It took a long time but I am

finally convinced that I'm not an ego as I had always believed....LOL.

 

Ramesh Balsekar:

And third is the person, the separate individual with a name,

the "me" who thinks it is living its own life. It is not even one of

those perceptible forms, like a human body. It is rather, an idea, a

concept, an image based mainly on an accumulation of memories. It

just does not exist. This is the greatest, the most fundamental

illusion.

[Guest guest]

WW wrote

 

One of the most commonly cited reasons for proclaiming that one's

guru-of-choice was/is "enlightened" is that "I had this mystical

transcendent experience (or experiences) while in his presence."

 

But is this kind of experience enough?

 

The way I see it, if "enlightenment" means anything, it refers to a

knowledge, or awareness, or consciousness, of who one is in the

deepest essence that goes beyond the realm of time.

 

Chris is sayingDear WW

yes all you say is valid.

Anything that is passing ie time bound is not It.

Experiences come and go.

The deepest states of meditation while beautifull are not it and one

can form the ego identity of the one who has the most amazing

spiritual experiences, no that most definately is not it.

If ability to rotate chakras, profound spiritual knowledge, guaranteed

enlightenment then millions would be enlightened so thats not it.

Its easier to say what it isent (the negitive way)

I believe there is no enlightenment and every one is enlightened.

No enlightenment because there only is consciousness. Everyone is

enlightened in the dream but they just dont know it so ignorance

needs to be removed.

 

Eckharts teaching is based on the timeless NOW I can only sugest that

The Power of Now is read by any one who feels drawn to it.

 

Rameshes teaching is based on " You are not the doer"

 

I can only state that the teachings of both of these "writers" has made a lasting

improvement in my life. I have constant peace within myself that just

was not obtainable through conventional methods. I am qualified in

Hypnotherapy N.L.P.

Physcotherapy Reiki and Bi-Aura. While those brought improvment in my

life just not the same depth of tranquility.

My mind now is relativly quiet/still which the main indicator of

spiritual progress given by Ramana

I am not enlightened but if this is as good as it gets that fine.

 

Hope this is helpfull ( not that you need help from me)

 

Regards to all Chris ( Anne is my partner WW)

[Guest guest]

--- devianandi <devi wrote:

> , Michael Bowes

>

> <rmichaelbowes> wrote:

> >

> > --- Tony OClery <aoclery> wrote:

> > > , "Gloria

> Lee"

> > > <glee@c...>

> > > wrote:

> > > >

> > > > -

> > > > viorica weissman

> > > > MillionPaths

> > > > Cc: NamoRamana

> > > > Friday, January 30, 2004 12:06 PM

> > > > [MillionPaths] Untying The Ego -

> story by

> > > Mother Amma

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > There was a cowherd boy who took his cows to

> the

> > > meadows every

> > > morning

> >

> > SNIP

> >

> > > Namaste,

> > >

> > > A nice story, but not original, and one that

> > > originated in the

> > > ancient scriptures and teachings. It may be one

> of

> > > the upanishads,

> > > or so.....I am so far only willing to accept

> that

> > > Ramana is a

> > > Jivanmukta, that's all.......ONS..Tony

> >

> > Dear Tony,

> >

> > Why not realize that you are "jivanmukta"? Why

> not

> > admit to yourself that you are free?

> >

> > michael

>

> devi: do you think that admitting to yourself that

> you are free makes

> you a jivan-mukti? you make it sound so simple..when

> i was a flower

> child back in the late 60's i thought i was free,

> but it wasn't that

> real freedom of self-realziiton..smiles?

>

 

Dear Devi,

 

The following is from the Ashtavakra Gita, Chapter 1

6. Virtue and vice, pleasure and pain, are of the

mind, not of you, O all-pervading one. You are

neither doer nor enjoyer. Verily you are ever free.

 

7. You are the one seer of all and are really ever

free. Verily this alone is your bondage that you see

yourself not as the seer but as something other.

 

It's actually just that easy.

 

michael

[Guest guest]

--- Warwick Wakefield <formandsubstance

wrote:

> Hullo Anne,

>

> This is a fascinating subject that you have raised.

 

mb: Truly fascinating!

 

> You had an experience in the silent presence of

> Ramesh and Tolle. You say this experience was

> sufficient for you to assert, with confidence, that

> R. and T. are genuinely enlightened.

 

mb: That's good. But once upon a time I used to have

blissful experiences with my girlfriend; but it didn't

last and I ended up not liking her as much as I once

did. Get my drift?

> Now I am not arguing whether R. and T. are, or are

> not, "genuinely enlightened", whatever that may be.

 

 

mb: Yeah. I'm not arguing that either. But I am

saying that the whole idea of judging whether some is

or is not enlightened is absurd. First of all, What

is enlightenment? Is it anything at all? Does it

exist? And if so, What the heck is it?

 

But if enlightenment actualy exists, how would the

"unenlightened" be able to judge whether or not this

or that preacher guy is "enlightened"?

 

SNIP

 

Regards,

 

michael

[Guest guest]

----- mb: Yeah. I'm not arguing that either. But I amsaying that

the whole idea of judging whether some isor is not enlightened is

absurd. First of all, Whatis enlightenment? Is it anything at all?

Does itexist? And if so, What the heck is it?But if enlightenment

actualy exists, how would the"unenlightened" be able to judge whether

or not thisor that preacher guy is

"enlightened"?SNIPRegards,michaelChris writing.

I can go along with this Michael.

Its not about the Guru its about "Who am I?"

How have I grown spiritually not that I can really "judge" myself?

Is there a BAD!! Guru?

I think Life is the Guru and you are brought whatever experience you

need till you realize that there no experiencer no object

experienced only experiencing.

 

Namaste Chris

[Guest guest]

, "AnneChris" <am009a8716@b...>

wrote:

>

>

> Tony Wrote

>

> ...I am so far only willing to accept that Ramana is a

> Jivanmukta, that's all.......ONS..>

> Chris writes

> Accepting one is enough Tony and certainly Ramana is

beyond doubt a Jivanmukta.

> If he was alive today I would be at his feet however he has

passed on.

> If he was alive today he would be inundated with visitors.

>

> However I believe that it is helpful to have a live Master to

remove ignorance.

>

> Its good that you are open to the possibility of there being a

living Jivanmukta even if He has not appeared in your life as yet.

>

> Having met both Ramesh and Eckhart and had some awareness of

that which came from them ( call it presence, call it anything you

like)in their silence/stillness. I am convinced that they are

genuinely enlightened.

> Their books are for people of this time who don't have the

intellect that you are blessed with. People who cant afford to go to

India or be deeply immersed in ancient books. Though some of

Ramesehes books are very deep.

> Ramesh & Eckhart have read these ancient truths and allude to

them. These truths are not diluted in any way just presented in a

different way that resonates with life as it is today.

> All teaching is a concept that is why Truth cannot be spoken of

only pointed to.

> If it could then it would be a thing an object which the

Absolute is not.

>

> Namaste Chris

 

Namaste,

 

Ramesh is an eclectic plagiarist and eckart an oprah author---that's

it.........ONS..Tony

[Guest guest]

, "devianandi" <devi@p...>

wrote:

>

> > > > or so.....I am so far only willing to accept that Ramana is

a

> > > > Jivanmukta, that's all.......ONS..> > >

> > > devi: are you considering that self-realiztion is different

that

> > > jivan-mukti?

> devi: i define bhodisattva as someone who has taken refuge in the

> buddha the dharma and the sangah..and who deliberatly refrains

from

> entering nirvana...(as if one has a choice)...because to help

> suffering humanity is more important...i define Avatar as someone

who

> in a previous life attained mukti and has come back to help others

> gain mukti....saints are in the catagory of beings who are very

close

> to God due to their purity or visa versa..sinners are the opposite

of

> saints...

>

> can you explain to me what is bramaloka? have you been there?

>

>

> and, i'm wondering if you have taken a look at sarlos guru

> ratings..i'm thinking that there are probabaly 1000 people listed

who

 

> in one form or another intimate they are *enlightnened* or

> *muktied*..smiles

Namste,

 

You go to Brahmaloka when you sleep everynight, you know as much

about it as I do. Bhodi sattv just means purified awareness. A mukti

cannot come back they don't exist anymore, an ego is req'd. A

jivanmukta is superior to an avatar of bhodisattva for he has

attained moksha not delayed it.........ONS..Tony

[Guest guest]

This thread has been a nice lesson on how the illusory sense of self takes

a point of view, judges and labels it as the truth, then defends it

illusion as reality.

 

Thank you for the lesson.

 

Branwell

 

 

 

 

 

At 12:06 PM 2/2/2004, you wrote:

>, "AnneChris" <am009a8716@b...>

>wrote:

> >

> >

> > Tony Wrote

> >

> > ...I am so far only willing to accept that Ramana is a

> > Jivanmukta, that's all.......ONS..> >

> > Chris writes

> > Accepting one is enough Tony and certainly Ramana is

>beyond doubt a Jivanmukta.

> > If he was alive today I would be at his feet however he has

>passed on.

> > If he was alive today he would be inundated with visitors.

> >

> > However I believe that it is helpful to have a live Master to

>remove ignorance.

> >

> > Its good that you are open to the possibility of there being a

>living Jivanmukta even if He has not appeared in your life as yet.

> >

> > Having met both Ramesh and Eckhart and had some awareness of

>that which came from them ( call it presence, call it anything you

>like)in their silence/stillness. I am convinced that they are

>genuinely enlightened.

> > Their books are for people of this time who don't have the

>intellect that you are blessed with. People who cant afford to go to

>India or be deeply immersed in ancient books. Though some of

>Ramesehes books are very deep.

> > Ramesh & Eckhart have read these ancient truths and allude to

>them. These truths are not diluted in any way just presented in a

>different way that resonates with life as it is today.

> > All teaching is a concept that is why Truth cannot be spoken of

>only pointed to.

> > If it could then it would be a thing an object which the

>Absolute is not.

> >

> > Namaste Chris

>

>Namaste,

>

>Ramesh is an eclectic plagiarist and eckart an oprah author---that's

>it.........ONS..>

[Guest guest]

To Michael wiho?

THANK YOU

LIKE RAMANA MAHARSHI STATED

THE UNENLIGHTENED CANNOT JUDGE WHO IST ENLIGHTENED

CLEAR????

of course n o t

folks its soooo easy and sooo "difficult"

j u s t l i v e w h a t y o u k n o w inside "yourself

and you have to try it 24 hours for 24 hours a day .......

doing this no question arises who is a real Guru great laughter

if you found what you did seek all your life you have to live it

basta

all my love to you

michael bindel

>"AnneChris"

> >

>Re: Re: Fw: [MillionPaths] Untying The Ego

- story by Mother Amma >Mon, 2 Feb 2004 16:41:12 -0000 > > >

----- > mb: Yeah. I'm not arguing that either. But I am >

saying that the whole idea of judging whether some is > or is not

enlightened is absurd. First of all, What > is enlightenment? Is

it anything at all? Does it > exist? And if so, What the heck is

it? > > But if enlightenment actualy exists, how would the >

"unenlightened" be able to judge whether or not this > or that

preacher guy is "enlightened"? > > SNIP > > Regards, > >

michael > > Chris writing. > I can go along with this Michael. >

Its not about the Guru its about "Who am I?" > How have I grown

spiritually not that I can really "judge" myself? > Is there a

BAD!! Guru? > I think Life is the Guru and you are brought whatever

experience you need till you realize that there no experiencer no

object experienced only experiencing. > > Namaste Chris >

MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE*

[Guest guest]

> mb: Yeah. I'm not arguing that either. But I am

> saying that the whole idea of judging whether some is

> or is not enlightened is absurd. First of all, What

> is enlightenment? Is it anything at all? Does it

> exist? And if so, What the heck is it?

>

> But if enlightenment actualy exists, how would the

> "unenlightened" be able to judge whether or not this

> or that preacher guy is "enlightened"?

>

>

> Regards,

>

> michael

 

devi: since you said it is so easy in your provious post why now are

you asking what is it and is it anything at all and does it exist and

what the heck is it...i'm all confused about you now...smiles

[Guest guest]

, "Tony OClery" <aoclery>

wrote:

> , "AnneChris"

<am009a8716@b...>

> wrote:

> >

> >

> > Tony Wrote

> >

> > ...I am so far only willing to accept that Ramana is a

> > Jivanmukta, that's all.......ONS..> >

> > Chris writes

> > Accepting one is enough Tony and certainly Ramana is

> beyond doubt a Jivanmukta.

> > If he was alive today I would be at his feet however he has

> passed on.

> > If he was alive today he would be inundated with visitors.

> >

> > However I believe that it is helpful to have a live Master to

> remove ignorance.

> >

> > Its good that you are open to the possibility of there being a

> living Jivanmukta even if He has not appeared in your life as yet.

> >

> > Having met both Ramesh and Eckhart and had some awareness of

> that which came from them ( call it presence, call it anything you

> like)in their silence/stillness. I am convinced that they are

> genuinely enlightened.

> > Their books are for people of this time who don't have the

> intellect that you are blessed with. People who cant afford to go

to

> India or be deeply immersed in ancient books. Though some of

> Ramesehes books are very deep.

> > Ramesh & Eckhart have read these ancient truths and allude to

> them. These truths are not diluted in any way just presented in a

> different way that resonates with life as it is today.

> > All teaching is a concept that is why Truth cannot be spoken of

> only pointed to.

> > If it could then it would be a thing an object which the

> Absolute is not.

> >

> > Namaste Chris

>

> Namaste,

>

> Ramesh is an eclectic plagiarist and eckart an oprah author---

that's

> it.........ONS..Tony

 

devi: thats very funny...i think your jealous of their name and fame

and forturne...smiles

[Guest guest]

, "MICHAEL BINDEL"

<michael_bindel@h...> wrote:

>

 

Namaste,

 

One cannot tell who is enlightend but there is much more evidence

for who isn't, based on the descriptions and writingd of jivanmuktas

themselves...........ONS..Tony

[Guest guest]

, "> > > Namaste Chris

> >

> > Namaste,

> >

> > Ramesh is an eclectic plagiarist and eckart an oprah author---

> that's

> > it.........ONS..Tony

>

> devi: thats very funny...i think your jealous of their name and

fame

> and forturne...smiles

 

Namaste,

 

No jealousy just experience, that's all. If you think I am wrong in

my assessment then compare Balsekar's notes with several other

people and tolle is a no brainer, to work out....ONS..Tony

[Guest guest]

can you explain to me what is bramaloka? have you been there?

 

 

and, i'm wondering if you have taken a look at sarlos guru

ratings..i'm thinking that there are probabaly 1000 people listed

who

in one form or another intimate they are *enlightnened* or

> > *muktied*..smiles

> Namste,

>

> You go to Brahmaloka when you sleep everynight, you know as much

> about it as I do. Bhodi sattv just means purified awareness. A

mukti

> cannot come back they don't exist anymore, an ego is req'd. A

> jivanmukta is superior to an avatar of bhodisattva for he has

> attained moksha not delayed it.........ONS..Tony

 

 

devi: we certainly have different definitions for different words.

can you point to scriptures or something said by ramana that says

that you don't exist anymore? because i am under the impression that

we are atmas that become Paramatmas....

[Guest guest]

, Branwell McClory

<branwell1@e...> wrote:

> This thread has been a nice lesson on how the illusory sense of

self takes

> a point of view, judges and labels it as the truth, then defends

it

> illusion as reality.

>

> Thank you for the lesson.

>

> Branwell

 

Namaste,,

 

Who is the unenlightened ego that is performing this illusory

response? Who is it that writes and responds on the internet. For we

unenlightened ones on here without you great wisdom, your point is

taken. So having said that why on earth are you contributing to all

this?..........ONS..Tony

[Guest guest]

, "devianandi" <devi@p...>

wrote:

>

> can you explain to me what is bramaloka? have you been there?

>

>

> and, i'm wondering if you have taken a look at sarlos guru

> ratings..i'm thinking that there are probabaly 1000 people listed

> who

> in one form or another intimate they are *enlightnened* or

> > > *muktied*..smiles

> > Namste,

> >

> > You go to Brahmaloka when you sleep everynight, you know as much

> > about it as I do. Bhodi sattv just means purified awareness. A

> mukti

> > cannot come back they don't exist anymore, an ego is req'd. A

> > jivanmukta is superior to an avatar of bhodisattva for he has

> > attained moksha not delayed it.........ONS..Tony

>

>

> devi: we certainly have different definitions for different words.

> can you point to scriptures or something said by ramana that says

> that you don't exist anymore? because i am under the impression

that

> we are atmas that become Paramatmas....

 

Namaste,,

 

You are missing the basic point of all advaitic and vedantic

teachings, namely that Atma and Paramatma are one.....ONS..Tony