On the nature of bowing... to bow or not to bow (Sam'smDog)

[Guest guest]

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Lady Joyce

Tuesday, February 03, 2004 12:00 AM

Re: On the nature of bowing... to bow or not to bow

Post on bottom:-)

Prostrating email?

You bet!!!

Harsha

NondualitySalon ;

Monday, February 02, 2004 1:25 PM

On the nature of bowing

The meaning of the often used Sanskrit/Hindi word"Namaste" is roughly

meant to convey that "I bow tothe light in you."This metaphor is

acted out in many spiritualtraditions by actually prostrating before

the guru(putting head at his or her feet). I often prostratedbefore

my own guru in reverence.True prostration to someone is spontaneous

and notpremeditated. And a genuine bowing certainly need notbe

physical. When the mind comes down to the Heart,that is the supreme

bowing and leads to completesilence.Sri Ramana never asked for or

ever encouraged peopleto bow or prostrate to him. Sometimes he was

irritatedby it.Required kneeling to someone, a guru or the

groupleader, when it is part of an institutionalizedpractice may be a

subtle form of violence. I have seenmany groups like that. Prostrating

and kneeling to a guru can go beyond justspiritual bowing and may

involve elements of power,debasement, and the notion that some are

implicitlymore equal (closer to God, etc.) than others. Group

psychology can be very powerful and when usednegatively can have

harmful consequences. That is myobservation after being in the

"spiritual arena" formore than four decades. Probably people do what

they consider to be best forthemselves.Love to allHarsha

=============================================

In another thread, Tony made the observation...

'Bow down to the Inner Being', only, which is who we are anyway.It is

helpful to some to read people given to activity, whose egos are like

the rest of us on here and have a great development and wisdom, and

need to bring to everybody else but ourselves/themselves.All these

profusivness from authors indicates to me someone still lost in

illusion. If they were fully realised they would go away and keep

quiet, instead of self propagation.WE DON'T NEED TO BOW DOWN TO ANY

BODY. The inner guru is all we need, and 'Who am I?'. Instead of

searching for someone to write something we agree with----------AGREE

WITH SELF ENQUIRY, that's all..............ONS..Namaste to All:

I have been reading with some interest this thread about the nature of bowing.

It seems to be turning into something more on whether to bow or not to bow :-)

Namaste was one of the first words I found myself drawn to as my little adventure

unfolded. When I learned what it meant, I was intrigued by its beauty and I still am.

I do still go to services at the Temple around the corner and worship icons, Lord Shiva

in particular :-). I have not wailed yet :-) Cried maybe, but no wailing...

I still find myself greeting folks there with Namaste and find that it always

elicits a certain surprise mingled with a smile both delighted and shy.

If it is meant to say and the person who does it is doing it to say...

"I bow to the light in you." then I think it is a beautiful gesture in humility.

For when you can honestly look into the eyes of another person and

know that, and greet them with Namaste in your heart, you are giving

them a gift.

A gift of your acknowledgement to them that you recognize the light in

them. That you realize that the body is but an ornament covering the

soul which you share.

You are also gifting yourself with the symbolic reminder of That which you Are.

Is that not a form of Self enquiry? Still in Kindergarten...

Love,

Joyce

For tony....from Sam's dog.... Bow wow.. Bow wow.. stop throwing sticks.. Bow wow..

/join

"Love itself

is the actual form of God."Sri RamanaIn "Letters from Sri

Ramanasramam" by Suri Nagamma To visit your group on the web, go

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[Guest guest]

, Sam <S.

> Namaste was one of the first words I found myself drawn to as

my little adventure

> unfolded. When I learned what it meant, I was intrigued by

its beauty and I still am.

> I do still go to services at the Temple around the corner and

worship icons, Lord Shiva

> in particular :-). I have not wailed yet :-) Cried maybe,

but no wailing...

>

> I still find myself greeting folks there with Namaste and find

that it always

> elicits a certain surprise mingled with a smile both delighted

and shy.

> If it is meant to say and the person who does it is doing it

to say...

> "I bow to the light in you." then I think it is a beautiful

gesture in humility.

> For when you can honestly look into the eyes of another

person and know that,

> and greet them with Namaste in your heart, you are giving them

a gift.

>

> A gift of your acknowledgement to them that you recognize the

light in them.

> That you realize that the body is but an ornament covering the

soul which you share.

> You are also gifting yourself with the symbolic reminder of

That which you Are.

> Is that not a form of Self enquiry? Still in Kindergarten...

>

> Love,

>

> Joyce

>

>

> For tony....from Sam's dog.... Bow wow.. Bow wow.. stop

throwing sticks.. Bow wow..

 

Namaste Sam,

 

I'm glad you said sticks and not stones, and then related it to a

dog. I like that in my unenlightened state; it kind of gives one of

the functions of a discussion group. However sometimes somebody

throws a stick and then a person chases it just to chase it, and

when they have it in their mouth they find out what the stick is.

Sometimes it can be a catalyst in thinking. When I was going through

my guru stage, ie worshipping form and not 'Being Within', I came

across a stick. It was 'Be as you are' in 1987. I found it in the

library and it took me several reading to understand it at all. As

it was so much in conflict with my guru worship. Actually my guru

turned out to be a very human, person with some quite disturbing

failings. However by this time I understood Ramana and it more or

less saved my sanity. Oh! what a lovely stick to get over schtick!

I still use mantras, and other prayers in preparation for

meditation, for it is my habit. I also pray to the Sakti, for I know

until I am realised I am not truly an Advaitin, just an aspiring one.

Yes I more and more sceptical about many so called 'Realised

People', for I know how hard it is.

 

Daily Words of the Buddha

Febuary 3, 2004

 

 

Silent in body, silent in speech,

silent in mind, without defilement,

blessed with silence is the sage.

He is truly washed of evil.

 

Itivuttaka 56.

 

In the end result groups like this perform the function of dharana

or concentration. They direct the mind away from the mundane for a

while, and if that is the only function they perform it is well

enough..........No matter what the discussion is about......ONS..Tony

[Guest guest]

-

Tony OClery

(AT) (DOT) .com

Tuesday, February 03, 2004 11:49 AM

Re: On the nature of bowing... to bow or not to bow (Sam'smDog)

Namaste Sam,I'm glad you said sticks and not stones, and then related

it to a dog. I like that in my unenlightened state; it kind of gives

one of the functions of a discussion group. However sometimes

somebody throws a stick and then a person chases it just to chase it,

and when they have it in their mouth they find out what the stick is.

Sometimes it can be a catalyst in thinking. When I was going through

my guru stage, ie worshipping form and not 'Being Within', I came

across a stick. It was 'Be as you are' in 1987. I found it in the

library and it took me several reading to understand it at all.

Tonyji!

Funny we would both mention this book at almost the same time. And I

really like how you compared these discussion groups to throwing and

chasing sticks. I just have this warm feeling towards you right now,

and wanted to let you know, Tony.

"In the end result groups like this perform the function of dharana or

concentration. They direct the mind away from the mundane for a while,

and if that is the only function they perform it is well

enough..........No matter what the discussion is

about......ONS..Tony"

[Guest guest]

-

Tony OClery

Tuesday, February 03, 2004 5:49 PM

Re: On the nature of bowing... to bow or not to bow (Sam'smDog)

, Sam <S.> Namaste was one of

the first words I found myself drawn to as my little adventure>

unfolded. When I learned what it meant, I was intrigued by its

beauty and I still am.> I do still go to services at the Temple

around the corner and worship icons, Lord Shiva> in particular

:-). I have not wailed yet :-) Cried maybe, but no wailing...> >

I still find myself greeting folks there with Namaste and find that

it always> elicits a certain surprise mingled with a smile both

delighted and shy. > If it is meant to say and the person who

does it is doing it to say...> "I bow to the light in you." then

I think it is a beautiful gesture in humility.> For when you can

honestly look into the eyes of another person and know that, > and

greet them with Namaste in your heart, you are giving them a gift. > >

A gift of your acknowledgement to them that you recognize the

light in them. > That you realize that the body is but an

ornament covering the soul which you share.> You are also gifting

yourself with the symbolic reminder of That which you Are.> Is

that not a form of Self enquiry? Still in Kindergarten...> >

Love,> > Joyce> > > For tony....from Sam's dog.... Bow wow..

Bow wow.. stop throwing sticks.. Bow wow..Namaste Sam,I'm glad you

said sticks and not stones, and then related it to a dog. I like that

in my unenlightened state; it kind of gives one of the functions of a

discussion group. However sometimes somebody throws a stick and then

a person chases it just to chase it, and when they have it in their

mouth they find out what the stick is. Sometimes it can be a catalyst

in thinking. When I was going through my guru stage, ie worshipping

form and not 'Being Within', I came across a stick. It was 'Be as you

are' in 1987. I found it in the library and it took me several reading

to understand it at all. As it was so much in conflict with my guru

worship. Actually my guru turned out to be a very human, person with

some quite disturbing failings. However by this time I understood

Ramana and it more or less saved my sanity. Oh! what a lovely stick

to get over schtick!I still use mantras, and other prayers in

preparation for meditation, for it is my habit. I also pray to the

Sakti, for I know until I am realised I am not truly an Advaitin,

just an aspiring one.Yes I more and more sceptical about many so

called 'Realised People', for I know how hard it is.Daily Words of

the BuddhaFebuary 3, 2004Silent in body, silent in speech,silent in

mind, without defilement,blessed with silence is the sage.He is truly

washed of evil.Itivuttaka 56.In the end result groups like this

perform the function of dharana or concentration. They direct the

mind away from the mundane for a while, and if that is the only

function they perform it is well enough..........No matter what the

discussion is about......ONS..

Thanks for you thoughtful answer Tony and for admitting that you don't

think that you are realized yet..

Still, I suggest that there must be a middle ground between

'worshipping' gurus and 'being skeptical' of someone's enlightenment.

 

We want so much to 'teach', to 'know' and so on. But it seems to me

better to simply stay in the place of not knowing.

Is Mr. or Mdme. X self realized? I don't know. I remain open. I don't

jump to concussions even though part of me may be aching to be among

the 'knowledgeable'..Nothing to say... Back to me.. back to the

present... back to seeing longing simply as longing..

Not to be disappointed with the failure of the self-image. No creation of unnecessary pain.

Don't know. 'so be it'. Don't know.

Sam

/join

"Love itself

is the actual form of God."Sri RamanaIn "Letters from Sri

Ramanasramam" by Suri Nagamma To visit your group on the web, go

to:/ To from

this group, send an email

to: Your use of

Groups is subject to the