So Ordinary..or is it?

[Guest guest]

- Warwick Wakefield To:

Monday, February 02, 2004 6:10

PMRe: So OrdinaryDear Joyce,What a storm

has erupted since this was posted.

Storm? What storm?Do you think it would make any difference if one

were to make a distinction between "mind" and "consciousness".

Not if you have moved on to the step below:-), but then what do I know?

<snip>...The next step is to see that the two realms, time and

eternity, mind and consciousness, are not really separate. Mind is

the continually-changing form, or forms, assumed by

consciousness.Mind, (ideas, perception, emotions-that-come-and-go,

fears, hopes, )occur within consciousness. But one is always, and

necessarily, consciousness.Is that helpful in any way?

Yes, Warwick, it is.

Thank you for your kind input and thoughts :-)

There have been a number of threads here recently,

variations on the theme, if you will.

When I thought about some of what has been written,

my mind (another forbidden word?) kept returning to

what is probably my most favorite poem. I have posted it

before but I will post it again now, because it sums it up

for me. I have to laugh at myself as I realize how differently I

understand and perceive it now as compared to how

I perceived it well over a year ago when our Harshaji

posted it on the k-list. Time does fly when you're having fun :-)

Oh, for the good ole' days!!!

Forgive me for quoting again, but he said it so beautifully...

In the words of Jnaneshwar...

saguna/nirguna explained:-)

"two lamps...one light"

http://www.omshaantih.com/Two lamps.htm

Much loveWarwick

And much love and gratitudeback to you, Warwick,

Joyce

[Guest guest]

Warwick> Do you think it would make any difference if one were to

make a

> distinction between "mind" and "consciousness".

>

>LJ Not if you have moved on to the step below:-), but then what do I

know?

>

> <snip>

Warwick> ...The next step is to see that the two realms, time and

eternity, mind and consciousness, are not really separate. Mind is

the continually-changing form, or forms, assumed by consciousness.

> Mind, (ideas, perception, emotions-that-come-and-go, fears, hopes, )

occur within consciousness.

>

> But one is always, and necessarily, consciousness.

 

This is interesting Warwick. By the way, so happy to have you here!

I've been enjoying all of your posts as they cause me to pause and

ponder. I can see the two are not separate, as like you said, the

mind occurs within consciousness. I would like to add to what you

said if you don't mind.

 

There is another realm that Joyce's beautiful poem by Adyashanti

speaks of, neither the mind nor consciousness. It includes the

beginning, the present, and the end of time, all in one. It is not

eternity, but the eternal Now. It is quite separate from mind and

consciousness also, yet inclusive. It's a (place) I'm sure you've

heard, or even been to, where 'everyone is already there'; where the

actual remembrance of our original self is. It is a place where fear

cannot live, or we'll be shot back into time as we know it. I have

no idea of the eastern term for it, as my road is the southern

path. :-) This might be the Ordinary Mind others speak of.

 

Here, one can see how the ego works and how we are pulled like

puppets on a string,. Initially, it can be one of the most

frightening places one can't even imagine, but it is all part of the

process of opening yourself to the Now. I've always called it 'The

Play', as you can see the play of life and all its' illusions so

clearly.

 

If you think of the birth of your Christ/Buddha self, it is (as

Timothy Leary so rightly called it) "The Ultimate Epistemological

Revelation", as you now begin to lose your ego, and be born again

into (the same) body. He inadvertently saw it as a possible Bardo

state to bypass upon death, which it probably is that, rather than

seeing it as a revolutionary way for our newly-born Christ/Buddha

self to live in the Now. It is seeing as the Christ/Buddha sees,

except seeing with form instead of the formless.

 

Because of the frightening egoic visions and the remembrance of the

Now, this revelation is forgotten by the majority of those who

witness it, but it is the ultimate cause of the 'Dark Night of the

Soul' after an enlightening experience if one is not prepared. If

anyone has ever been through the dark night, you can rest assured you

have seen what you never want to forget, yet choose not to remember

because it is so mind-blowing. Yet, everything experienced will

eventually be integrated into the Now with this whole other realm

that is just waiting on us to be the first, and then the last, to

acknowledge that 'we are all already there'.

 

Love,

xxxtg

[Guest guest]

Dear Joyce,

about the messages we have been exchanging on this matter of

-- what shall we call it? the unity existing in the midst of different forms?

(It's not easy to sum it up, is it?)

Anyway, I made the (exploratory) statement that what we know as mind

-- perceptions, thoughts, feelings and the like --

are different forms taken by the one, changeless consciousness.

(I think it is obvious that I'm not trying to present myself as an authority or an expert.

Mostly just trying to clarify certain insights I've been given and find the meaning of the

statements of various teachers I've listened to.)

And you graciously replied

Thank you for your kind input and thoughts :-)There have been a number

of threads here recently,variations on the theme, if you will.When I

thought about some of what has been written,my mind (another

forbidden word?) kept returning to what is probably my most favorite

poem. I have posted itbefore but I will post it again now, because it

sums it upfor me. I have to laugh at myself as I realize how

differently Iunderstand and perceive it now as compared to howI

perceived it well over a year ago when our Harshajiposted it on the

k-list. Time does fly when you're having fun :-)Oh, for the good

ole' days!!!

http://www.omshaantih.com/Two lamps.htmWell, I looked up the poem and it is entirely beautiful

Thank you Joyce,

Much love

Warwick

[Guest guest]

Hullo teegee,

Thanks for this.

Could you allow me time to ponder it?

At the moment, it looks pretty daunting, although I think that there

is basically a lot of agreement between us.

I'm glad you mentioned Timothy Leary. Leary, and the spirit of the

time, and acid taking, were a fertile soil, out of which came much

understanding. A lot of crap came out of it too - you just have to

exercise a bit of discrimination.

Love

WW

teegee555

Wednesday, February 04, 2004 4:12 AM

Re: So Ordinary..or is it?

Warwick> Do you think it would make any difference if one were to make

a > distinction between "mind" and "consciousness".> >LJ Not if you

have moved on to the step below:-), but then what do I know?> >

<snip>Warwick> ...The next step is to see that the two realms, time

and eternity, mind and consciousness, are not really separate. Mind

is the continually-changing form, or forms, assumed by

consciousness.> Mind, (ideas, perception, emotions-that-come-and-go,

fears, hopes, )occur within consciousness. > > But one is always, and

necessarily, consciousness.This is interesting Warwick. By the way,

so happy to have you here! I've been enjoying all of your posts as

they cause me to pause and ponder. I can see the two are not

separate, as like you said, the mind occurs within consciousness. I

would like to add to what you said if you don't mind. There is

another realm that Joyce's beautiful poem by Adyashanti speaks of,

neither the mind nor consciousness. It includes the beginning, the

present, and the end of time, all in one. It is not eternity, but

the eternal Now. It is quite separate from mind and consciousness

also, yet inclusive. It's a (place) I'm sure you've heard, or even

been to, where 'everyone is already there'; where the actual

remembrance of our original self is. It is a place where fear cannot

live, or we'll be shot back into time as we know it. I have no idea

of the eastern term for it, as my road is the southern path. :-)

This might be the Ordinary Mind others speak of. Here, one can see

how the ego works and how we are pulled like puppets on a string,.

Initially, it can be one of the most frightening places one can't

even imagine, but it is all part of the process of opening yourself

to the Now. I've always called it 'The Play', as you can see the

play of life and all its' illusions so clearly. If you think of the

birth of your Christ/Buddha self, it is (as Timothy Leary so rightly

called it) "The Ultimate Epistemological Revelation", as you now begin

to lose your ego, and be born again into (the same) body. He

inadvertently saw it as a possible Bardo state to bypass upon death,

which it probably is that, rather than seeing it as a revolutionary

way for our newly-born Christ/Buddha self to live in the Now. It is

seeing as the Christ/Buddha sees, except seeing with form instead of

the formless.Because of the frightening egoic visions and the

remembrance of the Now, this revelation is forgotten by the majority

of those who witness it, but it is the ultimate cause of the 'Dark

Night of the Soul' after an enlightening experience if one is not

prepared. If anyone has ever been through the dark night, you can

rest assured you have seen what you never want to forget, yet choose

not to remember because it is so mind-blowing. Yet, everything

experienced will eventually be integrated into the Now with this

whole other realm that is just waiting on us to be the first, and

then the last, to acknowledge that 'we are all already there'.

Love,xxxtg/join

"Love itself is

the actual form of God."Sri RamanaIn "Letters from Sri Ramanasramam"

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