Guest guest Posted February 10, 2004 Report Share Posted February 10, 2004 Namaste Tony, One learns a lot in suffering than while in good state...becuase at that point of time our ego is less and somehow we want to get rid of our physical and mental problems ..So when we are desparate we seek the help of a God Realised person whom we consider as the most respected form of God. I also had undergone several similar situations in my life and I was totally taken care of By my Guruji....I and my husband were desparate when i had to undergo a major surgery of total hysterectomy of my uterus and ovaries at a very young age .Normally no lady would prefer to lose her ovaries at such an young age which would leave her devastated mentally and physically after the operation throughout her life ..When we were in a dilema whether to undergo the surgery of not , my guruji blessed me saying that let me undertake it and HE would come and sit in your bedside to take care of you..Eventually the operation was a successful one and even the medicine i opted out by not taking which is very very essential for a woman . Although initially i was mentally very upset to have lost my ovaries , eventually it proved to be a great BOON for me, for That one incident of my Guruji's Blessings I am a totally changed person today . After that only i have started realising the true essence of life and started reading my Guruji's Book Called "The Voice of Shankara" by Chandrasekarendra Saraswathi Swamigal of South Kanchi Maha Peetam..Those teaching changed me entirely and i have come to this level of undestanding "Who I am " and in the process Find a lot of peace..And I want to merge myself with HIM...I STRONGLY FEEL THAT THIS IS ALL BECAUSE OF HIS UNENDING LOVING GRACE ON ME. I still continue to have HIS grace fulfilling me in every aspect. Lot of miracles are happenening which i feel is only his kripa on me to take me to a higher level of understanding the true "SELF". He is giving us lot of problem but at the end of the problem (I would say while undergoing only) reveals to us His immence Grace by making us realise that in undergoing and accecpting the Karmic results will we emerge as a better person . This knowledge dawns on us only when we are put into hardships not when we are enjoying in the peak... I can narrate "n" number of incidents in my life that has given me the courage to face life and accept things as it come to us because it is the divine will of Lord, u can never interfere in that.. He used to say that " when we are surrendering ourselves to a Doctor for our problem who has a limited knowledge in this world, why cant we do the surrendering to the will of God .Eventually H will take care of us " Whenever i have any problem I remember these words and try to calm down myself. So there is no end to suffering unless one reallises the impermanency of the difficulites as one is dawned with true knowledge of true "self" Love jayshree ______________________ ______________________ Message jayshreehari> > > > Digest Number 2410 >10 Feb 2004 11:42:26 -0000 > >------------------------ Sponsor ---------------------~--> >Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark >Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US & Canada. >http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 >http://us.click./mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/bpSolB/TM >---~-> > >There are 22 messages in this issue. > >Topics in this digest: > > 1. Re: Re: Unless challenged you don't know. > Michael Bowes > 2. Re: Unless challenged-you don't know.part 2. > "bhuvan eswar chilukuri" > 3. Ramana on the nature of bowing.... > "Lady Joyce" > 4. Re: new member intro/ to jim > christiane cameron > 5. Re: Unless challenged you don't know. > "Tony OClery" > 6. Jesus and the wine bibbers. > "Tony OClery" > 7. Re: Re: Unless challenged you don't know. > Michael Bowes > 8. Sunshine > "Al Larus" > 9. Re: Unless challenged you don't know. > "OClery" > 10. Stream > "Al Larus" > 11. Re: Re: Unless challenged you don't know. > "Warwick Wakefield" > 12. Re: Unless challenged you don't know. > "Tony OClery" > 13. Ice > "Al Larus" > 14. Shirdi > "AnneChris" > 15. Stream2 > "Al Larus" > 16. Fw: [RamanaMaharshi] Prayer to Bhagavan > "Lady Joyce" > 17. Re: Shirdi > "Tony OClery" > 18. RE: Shirdi > "MICHAEL BINDEL" > 19. Re: Re: Shirdi > "AnneChris" > 20. Re: Re: Shirdi > "MICHAEL BINDEL" > 21. Re: Re: Unless challenged you don't know. > "MICHAEL BINDEL" > 22. (unknown) > "MICHAEL BINDEL" > > >______________________ >______________________ > >Message: 1 > Mon, 9 Feb 2004 04:47:28 -0800 (PST) > Michael Bowes >Re: Re: Unless challenged you don't know. > > >--- Tony OClery wrote: > > , "Lady Joyce" > > > > wrote: > > > Dear Tony: > > >feet........ONS...Tony. > > > > > > And there are those who have feet but cannot walk. > > I do not think > > any of us has the right to judge the suffering > > > of others or try to put it into some context which > > works for us. >SNIP > > > > > There are people who do service worke and then there > > are do gooders > > and pollyanna's..........ONS...Tony > > > > > >Why be concerned with others, i.e., "do gooders" and >"pollyannas". What will you do about them? Are they >your business? > >michael > > >______________________ >______________________ > >Message: 2 > 9 Feb 2004 15:05:38 -0000 > "bhuvan eswar chilukuri" >Re: Unless challenged-you don't know.part 2. > >You are a true horseman! > >it is always great to hear success stories. > >Love >bhuvaneswar > >On Sun, 08 Feb 2004 Tony OClery wrote : > >Namaste All, > > > >In late 1984 I was an alcoholic, in fact I am still a recovering > >alcoholic---I don't drink. Luckily for everyone else I wasn't > >violent, just sang Irish songs and usually fell asleep. Still got up > >at seven am and went to work....a functional alcoholic. > > > >One Christmas my family came over and one particular daughter came > >out with a story about a son in Australia that I knew wasn't the > >facts. This ended up being a bit of a scene, so I sat down and just > >did my drinking thing and fell asleep. When I awoke they had all > >gone and I was as mad as hell at myself. I went to bed cursing that > >there was no God etc etc. This particular daughter was later > >diagnosed as being paranoid schizophrenic and manic depressive, like > >her deceased natural mother. > >Anyway I went to the mall the next day and in the $1 book pile I > >found a very nice glossy book by Richard Hittelman on yoga. I wasn't > >interested in yoga but liked books. I asked the girl if she was sure > >it was a $1 book and she said yes. So I bought and took it home, and > >started reading and doing the yoga for fun. Eventually I started the > >meditations and within no time at all, a few months, I was dry-no > >more alcohol. Meditation had replace the need of self medication. As > >Yung said alcoholism or dependency is a search for spirituality at a > >low level..Well I found mine, and except for following a fraud > >pedophile guru for a while, I never looked back.I ended up with > >reading Ramana a couple of years later and started to > >understand........ONS....Tony. > > > > > > > > > > > > > >/join > > > > > > > > > > > >"Love itself is the actual form of God." > > > >Sri Ramana > > > >In "Letters from Sri Ramanasramam" by Suri Nagamma > > Links > > > > > > > > > > > > >[This message contained attachments] > > > >______________________ >______________________ > >Message: 3 > Mon, 9 Feb 2004 09:25:44 -0500 > "Lady Joyce" >Ramana on the nature of bowing.... > > BOOKS BY DAVID GODMAN > PHOTOS & LINKS > > New book: Padamalai > > Page 1 > > an excerpt from... > > > >Namaskaram > > > > 16 > > The true meaning of namaskaram is the ego bowing its head and getting destroyed at the feet of the Guru. > > > > >Namaskaram is a gesture of obeisance, often a full-length prostration on the floor. Sadhu Natanananda made the following observations on this practice: > > > >Some of those who came for Maharshi's darshan used to perform ashtanga namaskaram in the traditional way. It was their belief that this practice, done devoutly, was indispensable for those who wanted the grace of the Sadguru. > > In order to drive home the point that in spiritual life mere mechanical observance of any sadhana, without knowing its inner meaning and without experiencing its fruit, will not make one blessed, Sri Bhagavan, addressing one such devotee, said, 'The benefit of performing namaskaram to the Guru is only the removal of the ego. This is not attained except by total surrender. Within the Heart of each devotee the gracious Guru is giving darshan in the form of consciousness. To surrender is to offer fully, in silence, the subsided ego, which is a name-and-form thought, to the aham-sphurana [the effulgence of "I"], the real holy feet of the gracious Guru. Since [this is so], Self-realisation cannot be attained by a bowing of the body, but only by a bowing of the ego.' > In this way Sri Bhagavan explained the truth of namaskaram and further explained that if spiritual practices are to yield their fruits without fail, they should be observed with a full awareness of their purpose.(8) > > > >Muruganar has also recorded Bhagavan's views on this subject in two verses from Guru Vachaka Kovai: > > > > 207 > This is the significance of the namaskaram: when the jiva, the imperfect one, places his proud head beneath the divine feet of his possessor, he is subduing the ego consciousness that says 'I' and merging with the Siva consciousness, which then rises and flourishes. > > 310 > The great delusion caused by the ignorant ego creates the sense of separateness, which conceives differences such as Guru and disciple, Siva and jiva, and so on. The most meaningful namaskaram that one should make towards one's Guru is the attainment in oneself of the state of silence in which such a state of separateness never arises. > > > > > 17 > > When the ego is totally destroyed at the feet of the Guru, it will then shine as the unsurpassed sea of mauna [silence]. > > > > >Bhagavan: Only the Supreme Self, which is ever shining in your Heart as the reality, is the Sadguru. The pure awareness, which is shining as the inward illumination 'I', is his gracious feet. The contact with these [inner holy feet] alone can give you true redemption. Joining the eye of reflected consciousness [chidabhasa], which is your sense of individuality [jiva bodha], to those holy feet, which are the real consciousness, is the union of the feet and the head that is the real significance of the word 'asi'.(9) As these inner holy feet can be held naturally and unceasingly, hereafter, with an inward-turned mind, cling to that inner awareness that is your own real nature. This alone is the proper way for the removal of bondage and the attainment of the supreme truth. (10) > > > > 18 > > Padam [bhagavan] communicates this truth: 'The meaning of the word 'nama' [obeisance] is abiding as the Self, with the ego destroyed.' > > > > >Question: Swami, I have only one desire, namely to put my head on Bhagavan's foot and do namaskar. Bhagavan must grant me this favour. >Bhagavan: Oh, is that the desire! But then which is the foot and which is the head? >Questioner: No reply. >Bhagavan: Where the self merges, that is the foot. >Question: Where is that place? >Bhagavan: Where? It is in one's own Self. The feeling 'I', 'I', the ego, is the head. Where that aham vritti [the 'I'-thought] dissolves, that is the foot of the Guru.(11) > > > >http://www.davidgodman.org/books/padamalai.shtml > > > > >[This message contained attachments] > > > >______________________ >______________________ > >Message: 4 > Mon, 9 Feb 2004 17:15:35 +0100 > christiane cameron >Re: new member intro/ to jim > >Dear Joyce, > >thank you for your kind words. > >Chris > > > > >Dear Christina: > > > > You wrote... > > > > When I write about Ramana my heart melts with love. When you think > > what Maharshi did and is doing for so many people, through his > > teaching and the example of his pure life, then his is (in modern > > business terms) a big success story. A half century after Mahasamadhi > > his teaching is vibrant and the Ashram is getting more crowded every > > year. As a Bhakta I talk affectionately and maybe a little > > disrespectful to "my Guruji", who for me is very much alive and the > > most wonderful Guru in the Universe. Bhakti is not something rational > > and neither are the outpourings of a Bhakta, but Maharshi used to say, > > that Bhakti is the mother of Jnana. And the Self is nothing but Love. > > > > How nice, to meet another German in the Sangha. > > > > Sincerely, > > > > Christina > > ========================================== > > > > It is so nice to have you here. > > There are a few other German folks on the list, Gabriele Ebert, for > > one. > > In fact, she recently published a book on Maharshi, in German. Right > > up your alley:-) > > Although I am part German, I cannot speak of word of German, LOL! > > What does it really matter? We are all from the same cloth. > > The language of the heart is universal. > > Your Bhakta outpourings are quite welcome here, at least in my email > > box. > > The outpourings of Bhakta are the birthing to Jnana. > > May we all be so lucky to Know the Grace of the Heart > > that gives meaning to the Understanding of Jnana. > > > > ========================================= > > > > Now, on to Jim... I was thinking much along the same lines as you > > write below. > > Why go to someone else to try to figure out why they are wrong, line > > by line, > > in their criticism or analysis of Bhagavan's teachings? > > Why not stay with the source to understand the source? > > And really, by the end of this short article of Mr. Leonard, he says > > much the same thing... > > he only uses different words to somehow try to say that what he > > says is different. > > I did only scan it briefly, but that was my impression. > > > > Love, > > > > Joyce > > > > > >> Dear Jim, > > > >> > > > >> I am happy to discuss Leonard's text, but I would like to know > > what > > > >> your reasons for choosing that text are. > > > >> > > > >> Up until a short while ago I was not aware that there are many > > > >> people presenting their own version of Maharshi's teaching. When > > I > > > >> read "Who am I" for the first time, I knew instantly that here was > > > >> truth, there was nothing more to ad. Search was over. I couldn't > > wait > > > >> to reach home and try the Vichara. And amazement has never left me > > > >> from that day. > > > >> I am a student of Ramana Maharshi because of the pure life he lead > > > >> and because his teachings work. They are it, the real thing. > > Ramana > > > >> Maharshi is the Sad Guru. And one silly part of me is really > > proud of > > > >> Guruji, because he is doing so well. > > > >> > > > >> Sincerely, > > > >> Christina > > > >> > > > > > > /join > > > > > > > > > > > > "Love itself is the actual form of God." > > > > Sri Ramana > > > > In "Letters from Sri Ramanasramam" by Suri Nagamma > > > > > > > > Links > > > > • To visit your group on the web, go to: > > / > > > > • To from this group, send an email to: > > > > > > • Your use of is subject to the Terms of > > Service. > > > > >Monsoonhouse Int. >Kovalam/Kerala >contact: christianecameron (AT) mac (DOT) com > > >[This message contained attachments] > > > >______________________ >______________________ > >Message: 5 > Mon, 09 Feb 2004 16:37:09 -0000 > "Tony OClery" >Re: Unless challenged you don't know. > >--- In , Michael Bowes > wrote: > > > > --- Tony OClery wrote: > > > , "Lady Joyce" > > > > > > wrote: > > > > Dear Tony: > > > >feet........ONS...Tony. > > > > > > > > And there are those who have feet but cannot walk. > > > I do not think > > > any of us has the right to judge the suffering > > > > of others or try to put it into some context which > > > works for us. > > SNIP > > > > > > > > There are people who do service worke and then there > > > are do gooders > > > and pollyanna's..........ONS...Tony > > > > > > > > > > Why be concerned with others, i.e., "do gooders" and > > "pollyannas". What will you do about them? Are they > > your business? > > > > michael > >Namaste M, > >They are everyones business of course. >Many of the sick and poor know that the people who come to help them >with a do-gooder or pollyanna attitude are only self serving and >belong to the middle and higher classes that exploit and oppress >them in every other way. Or burn up resources with comfortable >lifestyles and self indulgence, so doing harm to the ecology and the >poor. If everyone lived like North Americans did for example, we >would need several planets the size of earth, do you not think that >is violence? >I suppose that is the karmic reason for revolutions and churning of >societies every now and then. It is real whilst you are in it so it >is your business if you are not realised.........ONS..Tony > > > >______________________ >______________________ > >Message: 6 > Mon, 09 Feb 2004 16:44:56 -0000 > "Tony OClery" >Jesus and the wine bibbers. > >Namaste All, > >The Pharisees were always accusing Jesus or hanging out with the >dregs of society and wine-bibbers. IMO there is something deep in >the behaviour of Jesus. Apart from the fact he only owned a pair of >sandals and a one piece woolen robe, and slept wherever he happened >to be. He was a typical Sadhu or Sannyasin type in many ways. >However I think there was a reason for mixing with the wine bibbers >etc. At one end of the spiritual scale we have the spiritual seekers >who know that they shouldn't be on this planet, and at the other end >we have the wine bibbers etc who know the same thing in a low level >way---------Yung. >In between we have the middle and uppper classes who are too >comfortable to realise this great truth, many of these wear religion >and spirituality on their sleeves or are the do-gooder variety. >So Jesus mixed with those who already had made a momentous deduction >but had the wrong method. They were more likely to listen to his >truth.................ONS...Tony > > > >______________________ >______________________ > >Message: 7 > Mon, 9 Feb 2004 08:54:58 -0800 (PST) > Michael Bowes >Re: Re: Unless challenged you don't know. > > >--- Tony OClery wrote: > > , Michael Bowes > > > > wrote: > > > > > > --- Tony OClery wrote: > > > > , "Lady > > Joyce" > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > Dear Tony: > > > > >feet........ONS...Tony. > > > > > > > > > > And there are those who have feet but cannot > > walk. > > > > I do not think > > > > any of us has the right to judge the suffering > > > > > of others or try to put it into some context > > which > > > > works for us. > > > SNIP > > > > > > > > > > > There are people who do service worke and then > > there > > > > are do gooders > > > > and pollyanna's..........ONS...Tony > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Why be concerned with others, i.e., "do gooders" > > and > > > "pollyannas". What will you do about them? Are > > they > > > your business? > > > > > > michael > > > > Namaste M, > > > > They are everyones business of course. > > Many of the sick and poor know that the people who > > come to help them > > with a do-gooder or pollyanna attitude are only self > > serving and > > belong to the middle and higher classes that exploit > > and oppress > > them in every other way. Or burn up resources with > > comfortable > > lifestyles and self indulgence, so doing harm to the > > ecology and the > > poor. If everyone lived like North Americans did for > > example, we > > would need several planets the size of earth, do you > > not think that > > is violence? > > I suppose that is the karmic reason for revolutions > > and churning of > > societies every now and then. It is real whilst you > > are in it so it > > is your business if you are not > > realised.........ONS..Tony > > >Cool! And can you actually do something about it? > >Yesterday there was some discussion about prior >alcoholism and drug addiction, etc. Do you remember >the portion of the AA prayer that goes something like >this: God grant me the serenity to accept the things >I cannot change, the courage to change the things that >I can, and the wisdom to know the difference >(paraphrased). > >My opinion is that you, or I, can do little or nothing >to change the "do gooders" and "polyannas" that you >are referring to. But, maybe you can do something and >if so what is it? And if, other than bemoaning the >problem, you really can't do anything about it, then >why not forget it? > >michael > > > >______________________ >______________________ > >Message: 8 > Mon, 9 Feb 2004 18:06:38 +0100 > "Al Larus" >Sunshine > > > > > > > >http://www.ferryfee.com/bluesky/Sunshine.htm > > > > > > > > > > >Alan > >[This message contained attachments] > > > >______________________ >______________________ > >Message: 9 > Mon, 09 Feb 2004 17:08:49 -0000 > "Tony OClery" >Re: Unless challenged you don't know. > >--- In , Michael Bowes > wrote: > >> > > > > > > Why be concerned with others, i.e., "do gooders" > > > and > > > > "pollyannas". What will you do about them? Are > > > they > > > > your business? > > > > > > > > michael > > > > > > Namaste M, > > > > > > They are everyones business of course. > > > Many of the sick and poor know that the people who > > > come to help them > > > with a do-gooder or pollyanna attitude are only self > > > serving and > > > belong to the middle and higher classes that exploit > > > and oppress > > > them in every other way. Or burn up resources with > > > comfortable > > > lifestyles and self indulgence, so doing harm to the > > > ecology and the > > > poor. If everyone lived like North Americans did for > > > example, we > > > would need several planets the size of earth, do you > > > not think that > > > is violence? > > > I suppose that is the karmic reason for revolutions > > > and churning of > > > societies every now and then. It is real whilst you > > > are in it so it > > > is your business if you are not > > > realised.........ONS..Tony > > > > > Cool! And can you actually do something about it? > > > > Yesterday there was some discussion about prior > > alcoholism and drug addiction, etc. Do you remember > > the portion of the AA prayer that goes something like > > this: God grant me the serenity to accept the things > > I cannot change, the courage to change the things that > > I can, and the wisdom to know the difference > > (paraphrased). > > > > My opinion is that you, or I, can do little or nothing > > to change the "do gooders" and "polyannas" that you > > are referring to. But, maybe you can do something and > > if so what is it? And if, other than bemoaning the > > problem, you really can't do anything about it, then > > why not forget it? > > > > michael > >Namaste, > >There really has to be a new age of enlightenment. Where the >political greedy systems of today are replaced with ones more >spiritual. Captitalism and Totalitarianism have to be replaced for >they interfere with the spiritual progress of mankind. The old >systems of the world were more fair. They were more like Communism >but with a spiritual dimension. I always felt that was Marx's >failing in his philosophy, resulting in materialism. >In the old days there were four broad arrangements. Spiritual >people, administrator and police people, merchants and finally >workers. These were not set in stone so people were in which group >they most suited. The problem today is the merchant class is out of >order and ruling the world, so sidelining everyone else. >Consequently we are ruled by lower states of awareness based on >greed. Peacefully Overthrow this system and it gives the general >population a chance to go on to the spiritual path more. Which is >the whole purpose of the human race etc...........ONS...Tony > > > >______________________ >______________________ > >Message: 10 > Mon, 9 Feb 2004 18:14:02 +0100 > "Al Larus" >Stream > > > > > > > >http://www.ferryfee.com/bluesky/Stream.htm > > > > > > > > > >Alan > > >[This message contained attachments] > > > >______________________ >______________________ > >Message: 11 > Tue, 10 Feb 2004 08:29:47 +1100 > "Warwick Wakefield" >Re: Re: Unless challenged you don't know. > > >- >Tony OClery >To: >Tuesday, February 10, 2004 3:37 AM > Re: Unless challenged you don't know. > > > > Why be concerned with others, i.e., "do gooders" and > > "pollyannas". What will you do about them? Are they > > your business? > > > > michael > >Namaste M, > >They are everyones business of course. >Many of the sick and poor know that the people who come to help them >with a do-gooder or pollyanna attitude are only self serving and >belong to the middle and higher classes that exploit and oppress >them in every other way. > >What is emerging here is old-fashioned lefty ideology. This ideology, in the extreme, manifests by blowing up babies, with bombs planted in public places, as used to happen not so very long ago when the IRA and their ilk were active in the streets of Northern Ireland and in England. > >Or burn up resources with comfortable >lifestyles and self indulgence, so doing harm to the ecology and the >poor. > >This is simply eco-fundamentalism. Tony, if you are still young enough to send a stream of often-vitriolic messages to websites, then you are young enough to borrow, from your public library, Bjorn Lomborg's book, "The Skeptical Enviromentalist", spend some time digesting it, and discover, firstly, the scientific shonkiness of eco-fundamentalism, and then, secondly, the ancient, common-or-garden, prejudices and hatreds that use eco-fundamentalism as a cover. > >If everyone lived like North Americans did for example, we >would need several planets the size of earth, do you not think that >is violence? > >A particularly nasty form that eco-fundamentalism takes is anti-Americanism. It is an extension of the envy, and underlying obsession with materialism, in all aspects of that word, that motivates lefty politics and social prejudice everywhere. > >I suppose that is the karmic reason for revolutions and churning of >societies every now and then. It is real whilst you are in it so it >is your business if you are not realised......... > >ONS..Tony > >"Karmic reasons" indeed! >Prejudice and hostility, whether the hostility is latent or active, usually likes to dress itself up in fancy clothing. >If you want to preach the ideologies of class and national hostility, there are thousands of appropriate sites. >The way I see it, spiritual understanding is an altogether different, and altogether more demanding, endeavour. > >Perhaps a good place to start would be to consider whether these grubby ideologies are, in fact, really you. Or whether they are just secondhand goods, soiled goods, that have nothing at all to do with the shining consciousness which you really are. > >WW > > > > > > > > > >[This message contained attachments] > > > >______________________ >______________________ > >Message: 12 > Mon, 09 Feb 2004 22:27:24 -0000 > "Tony OClery" >Re: Unless challenged you don't know. > >--- In , "Warwick Wakefield" > > > I suppose that is the karmic reason for revolutions and churning >of > > societies every now and then. It is real whilst you are in it so >it > > is your business if you are not realised......... > > > > ONS..Tony > > > > "Karmic reasons" indeed! > > Prejudice and hostility, whether the hostility is latent or >active, usually likes to dress itself up in fancy clothing. > > If you want to preach the ideologies of class and national >hostility, there are thousands of appropriate sites. > > The way I see it, spiritual understanding is an altogether >different, and altogether more demanding, endeavour. > > > > Perhaps a good place to start would be to consider whether these >grubby ideologies are, in fact, really you. Or whether they are just >secondhand goods, soiled goods, that have nothing at all to do with >the shining consciousness which you really are. > > > > WW > >Namaste WW, > >I'm sorry if I have offended your seeming, anti 'Left Wing', 'anti >kyoto' sensibilities. However nowhere have I espoused any political >view point, in fact I am apolitical and hold no real party views. >What I do try to do is speak the truth from my own experience and >association with others. I never speculate or represent what I have >not experienced or been heavily associated with. > >I could have gone on about the 700 years oppression of my people by >the British and the Irish Holocaust or Famine. Where a population >dropped from 9 million to about 3-4 million, in a few short years, >supervised by the British Empire. I could have mentioned my relative >stood against the wall and shot by soldiers or my relatives burned >out of their house etc etc. So you see if I was political there is a >lot to talk about. However I have long since given up anger on those >subjects. I stick to the facts. > >However what I was talking about was the old Vedic and pre Vedic >system of organising society for the benefit of all, and preserving >a spiritual bent. With their tri-cameral legislatures and each >groups keeping to what suited its temperament. In that system the >Brahmins and the Kshatriyas guided and ruled the country, the >Vaisyas kept to commerce and the Sudras to the labouring and working. >This allowed people to participate fully in the society and also >pursue the spiritual path not pursue material wealth as such. The >whole purpose of birth being a search for enlightenment. This is why >the whole premise of capitalism based on greed is so anti spiritual, >and just as anti spiritual is communism combined with atheism. >I only mentioned North America for I live in Canada and I am a >Canadian Citizen. Nowhere did I mention the USA, it isn't necessary >to point out the obvious, every train has an engine. > >The facts on exploitation of resources etc are obvious never mind >the research. It is all a violation of Ahimsa, the planet in itself >has its own ego and even planetary God/Deva. It is said that is >precisely what Adam/Jesus was, in many mystical and kabbalistic >groups. > >The most damage is by ignoring the problem. I have no animosity >towards people, only their actions can I know them. One cannot >mentally project oneself into the field of activity from a chair. To >many people what passes as spirituality is actually spiritual >materialism or a desire for spiritual wealth. Unless one is realised >one has to act. Yes I would like to see the entire world order of >capitalism and totalitarianism overthrown peacefully in favour of a >more spiritual system; that being the reason for our 'creation' and >presence on this planet----spiritual seeking that is. I base that on >the Bible and also on the story of the Kumaras in the Bagavatham. >Again I'm sorry you have chosen to be upset about my post, perhaps I >should have been a little more explicit, but I didn't want to sound >too -whatever- in talking about the Vedic and pre Vedic Ages and >their governance.....ONS...Tony > > > >______________________ >______________________ > >Message: 13 > Mon, 9 Feb 2004 23:58:43 +0100 > "Al Larus" >Ice > > > > > >http://www.ferryfee.com/bluesky/Ice.htm > > > > > > >Alan > >[This message contained attachments] > > > >______________________ >______________________ > >Message: 14 > Mon, 9 Feb 2004 23:17:39 -0000 > "AnneChris" >Shirdi > >Namaste > love this quote attributed to Shirdi Sai Baba > >"Before you speak, >ask yourself: >Is it kind, >is it necessary >is it true, >does it improve on the silence?" > >Enough said. > >Chris > >[This message contained attachments] > > > >______________________ >______________________ > >Message: 15 > Tue, 10 Feb 2004 00:43:27 +0100 > "Al Larus" >Stream2 > >Stream2 > > > > > > > > > >http://www.ferryfee.com/bluesky/Stream2.htm > > > > > > >Alan > >[This message contained attachments] > > > >______________________ >______________________ > >Message: 16 > Mon, 9 Feb 2004 18:10:06 -0500 > "Lady Joyce" >Fw: [RamanaMaharshi] Prayer to Bhagavan > > >----- Original Message ----- >gabriele ebert >RamanaMaharshi >Monday, February 09, 2004 3:54 PM >[RamanaMaharshi] Prayer to Bhagavan > > >Wherever my mind is, >let there be Thy form; >Wherever my head is, >let there be Thy feet. > >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >by Prof. P.V. Swamy, in: >The Ramana Way, Dec. 03 >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > >Thanks, Gabriele... >it fits right in with Ramana on >the nature of bowing. > >Love, > >Joyce > > >Shortcut URL to this page: > http://www./community/RamanaMaharshi > > > >-- > Links > > > RamanaMaharshi/ > > > >[This message contained attachments] > > > >______________________ >______________________ > >Message: 17 > Tue, 10 Feb 2004 00:20:38 -0000 > "Tony OClery" >Re: Shirdi > >--- In , "AnneChris" >wrote: > > Namaste > > love this quote attributed to Shirdi Sai Baba > > > > "Before you speak, > > ask yourself: > > Is it kind, > > is it necessary > > is it true, > > does it improve on the silence?" > > > > Enough said. > > > > Chris > >Namaste Chris, > >Yes fair enough. Nothing improves on the silence. However here it is >a discussion group, and sometimes we all get a little exhuberent, >especially we under developed spiritual ones hahahah..Yet we all >meet ourselves they say. Old Shirdi yes silence unless he was >whacking his devotees with a big stick...There's no understanding a >Saint............ONS...Tony > Oh by the way Cayce's prediction on the beginning of earth changes >in the islands north of australia, and eastern mediterranean---seven >large quakes, last week, in the island directly to the north new >guinea, and quakes in turkey etc. > > > >______________________ >______________________ > >Message: 18 > Tue, 10 Feb 2004 06:25:52 +0000 > "MICHAEL BINDEL" >RE: Shirdi > > > >[This message is not in displayable format] > > > >______________________ >______________________ > >Message: 19 > Tue, 10 Feb 2004 09:42:04 -0000 > "AnneChris" >Re: Re: Shirdi > >Tony wrote > >There's no understanding a >Saint............ONS...Tony > >chris saying >Yes I know, Your one in disguise. > >Oh by the way Cayce's prediction on the beginning of earth changes >in the islands north of australia, and eastern mediterranean---seven >large quakes, last week, in the island directly to the north new >guinea, and quakes in turkey etc. > I believe there was no creation and therfore no disolution only consciousness, however while here in "Gods" play it would be nice to believe that we are evolving into a more spiritual human race and that these disasters are the birth pains. So what comes next Tony? > >By the way I am going home to Inverness on Thursday for the weekend so wont be "listening" here till MOnday. >Regards to all Chris > > > >/join > > > > > >"Love itself is the actual form of God." > >Sri Ramana > >In "Letters from Sri Ramanasramam" by Suri Nagamma > > > > Sponsor > > > > > > > > >-- > > Links > > > / > > b.. To from this group, send an email to: > > > c.. Your use of Groups is subject to the > > > >[This message contained attachments] > > > >______________________ >______________________ > >Message: 20 > Tue, 10 Feb 2004 10:00:16 +0000 > "MICHAEL BINDEL" >Re: Re: Shirdi > > > >[This message is not in displayable format] > > > >______________________ >______________________ > >Message: 21 > Tue, 10 Feb 2004 10:02:36 +0000 > "MICHAEL BINDEL" >Re: Re: Unless challenged you don't know. > > > >[This message is not in displayable format] > > > >______________________ >______________________ > >Message: 22 > Tue, 10 Feb 2004 10:16:26 +0000 > "MICHAEL BINDEL" >(unknown) > > > >[This message is not in displayable format] > > > >______________________ >______________________ > > >/join > > > > > >"Love itself is the actual form of God." > >Sri Ramana > >In "Letters from Sri Ramanasramam" by Suri Nagamma >------ > Links > ><*> > / > ><*> To from this group, send an email to: > > ><*> Your use of Groups is subject to: > > >------ > > Marriage? 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