Guest guest Posted February 20, 2004 Report Share Posted February 20, 2004 Why pick on "sorrow" alone for an ending? There is also "joy", "pleasurehappiness" etc. Are they not worthy candidates for consideration? What is this need to "resolve" it? It presumes there is a resolution. Sorrow is inherent in that. Even if the goal is to "end" sorrow, there is sorrow inherent in that. To see clearly means to see clearly. Beginnings and endings typically take care of themselves. Love to all, Harsha --- viorica weissman <viorica wrote: > Sorrow follows us like our shadow, and we do not > seem to be able to > resolve it... > > Sorrow has an ending, but it does not come about > through any system > or method. There is no sorrow when there is > perception of "what is". > When you see very clearly "what is" - whether it be > the fact that > life has no fulfilment, or the fact that your son, > your brother, or > your husband is dead; when you know the fact as it > actually is, > without interpretation, without having an opinion > about it, without > any ideation, ideals, or judgements, then I think > there is the ending > of sorrow. ===== /join Mail SpamGuard - Read only the mail you want. http://antispam./tools Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 20, 2004 Report Share Posted February 20, 2004 -- viorica weissman <viorica wrote: besides Krishnamurti's sensitivity and intelligence are unique and you know that. ******************************** Sorry Vicki. Thanks for the reminder about the uniqueness of Krishnamurti's sensitivity and intelligence. For a split second he sounded like a pop psychologist. I think we all respond differently to writers and the so called enlightened people. Krishnamurti sometimes is very eloquent. Most of the time, he seems wordy and boring to me. I have no doubt that he offers great value and insight to many people including Sri Tonyji. Love to all Harsha Love to all Harsha ===== /join Mail SpamGuard - Read only the mail you want. http://antispam./tools Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 20, 2004 Report Share Posted February 20, 2004 Dear Vicki, Harsha, and everyone, --- Harsha <harshaimtm wrote: > -- viorica weissman <viorica wrote: > > besides Krishnamurti's sensitivity and intelligence > are unique and you know that. > ******************************** > Sorry Vicki. > > Thanks for the reminder about the uniqueness of > Krishnamurti's sensitivity and intelligence. > For a split second he sounded like a pop > psychologist. > > I think we all respond differently to writers and > the > so called enlightened people. Krishnamurti sometimes > is very eloquent. Most of the time, he seems wordy > and > boring to me. I began reading Krishnamurti many, many years ago. Now, I can't read him at all. I certainly agree with Harsha's statement, "Most of the time, he seems wordy and boring to me." I find him to be horribly boring; but beyond that I feel that his teachings are practically useless. He doesn't offer his audience any practical method to reach his own lofty condition. He he just rambles on endlessly. But he does have an unusual talent to be able to twist any conversation around to his point of view which never really seems to be determined. SNIP Regards, michael Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 20, 2004 Report Share Posted February 20, 2004 , Michael Bowes <rmichaelbowes> wrote: > Dear Vicki, Harsha, and everyone, > > --- Harsha <harshaimtm> wrote: > > -- viorica weissman <viorica@z...> wrote: > > > > besides Krishnamurti's sensitivity and intelligence > > are unique and you know that. > > ******************************** > > Sorry Vicki. > > > > Thanks for the reminder about the uniqueness of > > Krishnamurti's sensitivity and intelligence. > > > For a split second he sounded like a pop > > psychologist. > > > > I think we all respond differently to writers and > > the > > so called enlightened people. Krishnamurti sometimes > > is very eloquent. Most of the time, he seems wordy > > and > > boring to me. > > I began reading Krishnamurti many, many years ago. > Now, I can't read him at all. I certainly agree with > Harsha's statement, "Most of the time, he seems wordy > and boring to me." I find him to be horribly boring; > but beyond that I feel that his teachings are > practically useless. He doesn't offer his audience > any practical method to reach his own lofty condition. > He he just rambles on endlessly. But he does have an > unusual talent to be able to twist any conversation > around to his point of view which never really seems > to be determined. > > SNIP > > Regards, > > michael Dear Michael, Although I have given his books my best shot through the years, I quite agree with you. He was for another era, another time. Things don't remain the same. Having said that, others have stood the test of time, so that doesn't hold water. Bottom line; he was just boring to most of us. Some people found him interesting and helpful. One such man was Albert Blackburn, who wrote a couple of interesting books, one of which is Now Consciousness. (He got there long before Tolle). I go back and read Blackburn but not K. Vicki Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 20, 2004 Report Share Posted February 20, 2004 , Harsha <harshaimtm> wrote: > -- viorica weissman <viorica@z...> wrote: > > besides Krishnamurti's sensitivity and intelligence > are unique and you know that. > ******************************** > Sorry Vicki. > > Thanks for the reminder about the uniqueness of > Krishnamurti's sensitivity and intelligence. > > For a split second he sounded like a pop psychologist. > > I think we all respond differently to writers and the > so called enlightened people. Krishnamurti sometimes > is very eloquent. Most of the time, he seems wordy and > boring to me. > > I have no doubt that he offers great value and insight > to many people including Sri Tonyji. > > Love to all > Harsha Namaste Harsha, hahahahaahah I haven't read JK for many years. End of Sorrow is much like the Buddhas..all is dukha and there is an end to sorrow. People don't want to end joy, but the do want to end sorrow which is the other half of the coin........ONS...Tony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 20, 2004 Report Share Posted February 20, 2004 --- viorica weissman <viorica wrote: > > Hi Michael, > >> So I say yes, I resonate with the teaching of J. > Krishnamurti Hi Vicki, People have different perspectives on things. Saying that Krishnamurti is horribly boring does not mean that he is a bad person or anything. > Harsha thinks he is a pop up > psychologist, > you think he is boring, vicki Vicki, Michael never said that Krishnamurti is boring. Michael said that K is horribly boring, which is different than just being plain boring. Okay, I admit it Vicki. I am trying to make you laugh but its not working. Sorry. You are the best Vicki. Like Sri Tonyji says we are in the entertainment business. By the way, Tony, I am getting private messages from people saying that you are trying to dominate the sangha. One Sangha leader even has left in protest. The Ashram is breaking down. I don't know what to do. Somebody help me! :-). Love, Harsha ===== /join Mail SpamGuard - Read only the mail you want. http://antispam./tools Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 20, 2004 Report Share Posted February 20, 2004 , Harsha <harshaimtm> wrote: > --- viorica weissman <viorica@z...> wrote: > > > > Hi Michael, > > > >> So I say yes, I resonate with the teaching of J. > > Krishnamurti > > > Hi Vicki, >> > Like Sri Tonyji says we are in the entertainment > business. By the way, Tony, I am getting private > messages from people saying that you are trying to > dominate the sangha. One Sangha leader even has left > in protest. The Ashram is breaking down. I don't know > what to do. > > Somebody help me! :-). > > Love, > Harsha Namaste H, Left in protest hahah as Jack Nicholson said in the movie, 'You can't handle the truth." The Truth will overcome and somebody was overcome.hahahahahahaha. If somebody leaves they are not a loss, for they weren't there in the first place. However the messages have been programmed into their mind and if they are true they will confront them later on. I'm not trying to dominate the sangha, I'm just trying to keep up with responses to all these people posting. hahah As you know I usually bring this up every now and then to see if anybody has learned anything and understand what they are saying. Alas human kind just proves they are human continually that's all. The only suggestion I make is that animals are being cruelly treated and they should at least be aware of it if they are spouting their so called spirituality. Unfortunately it is a Western disease generally and an N.American one particularly. Something to do with a throw away society, the internet and too many computers, and a general ignorance of what is happening in the world etc etc. It is essentially the misunderstanding that the lower mind, which can be very intelligent is the whole of the human mind. Recording in the Citta and regurgitation is not awareness. That can only be achieved by Sadhana and purification. As they are not purified they are not aware and then they are angry somebody hasn't given them this instant gratification, when it is pointed out to them. They aren't angry with me they are angry with themselves. Meat eating is a habit an addiction, I understand addiction for I am a recovering alcholic and substance abuser. And they wont do anything until the penny drops. Just because the internet gives an outlet for armchair generals, doesn't make them particularly spiritual. I'm actually trying to help really, like a sponsor in AA or something. I don't go to AA meditation does it for me, some should really try it.....It is all karmic anyway hahahh...........ONS...Tony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 20, 2004 Report Share Posted February 20, 2004 --- viorica weissman <viorica wrote: > > Hi Harsha, > > fortunately truth survives only however horribly > boring it might be, > fair spirit in human beings survives only however > horribly > boring it might be to others, that's the beauty of > it all, > time and history cleans up everything else, > so there is nothing to worry, > > vicki Thanks dear Vicki for your sweet offering. Please forgive me but I am no longer sure what we are talking about. Love to all Harsha ===== /join Mail SpamGuard - Read only the mail you want. http://antispam./tools Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 20, 2004 Report Share Posted February 20, 2004 , Harsha <harshaimtm> wrote: > Thanks dear Vicki for your sweet offering. > > Please forgive me but I am no longer sure what we are > talking about. > > Love to all > Harsha LOL- you crack me up, Harsha. ))))))))))) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 20, 2004 Report Share Posted February 20, 2004 Like Sri Tonyji says we are in the entertainmentbusiness. By the way, Tony, I am getting privatemessages from people saying that you are trying todominate the sangha. One Sangha leader even has leftin protest. The Ashram is breaking down. I don't knowwhat to do.Somebody help me! :-).Love,Harsha Dear Harsha I wouldent worry the Ashram seems very much alive to me. Tony is stimulating a lot of dialogue. Most times I dont agree with him but I respect his points even though it seems at times he has no respect for sages I have mentioned. He is teaching me not to mind. Namaste Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 20, 2004 Report Share Posted February 20, 2004 - Harsha Friday, February 20, 2004 7:51 PM Re: Re: J. Krishnamurti - Sorrow has an ending, --- viorica weissman <viorica (AT) zahav (DOT) net.il> wrote:> > Hi Harsha, > > fortunately truth survives only however horribly> boring it might be, > fair spirit in human beings survives only however> horribly > boring it might be to others, that's the beauty of> it all,> time and history cleans up everything else,> so there is nothing to worry, > > vicki Thanks dear Vicki for your sweet offering. Please forgive me but I am no longer sure what we aretalking about. ------------- Finally!! :-) -------------- sam Love to allHarsha=====/join Magazine and Website is atDo you ? Mail SpamGuard - Read only the mail you want.http://antispam./tools/join "Love itself is the actual form of God."Sri RamanaIn "Letters from Sri Ramanasramam" by Suri Nagamma Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 20, 2004 Report Share Posted February 20, 2004 Harshaji wrote... Like Sri Tonyji says we are in the entertainment business. By the way, Tony, I am getting private messages from people saying that you are trying to dominate the sangha. One Sangha leader even has left in protest. The Ashram is breaking down. I don't know what to do. Somebody help me! :-). Dear Harshaji: To quote your own words a few posts back in this very thread, " Beginnings and endings typically take care of themselves." Love and in solidarity, Joyce PS Quack quack!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 20, 2004 Report Share Posted February 20, 2004 --- viorica weissman <viorica wrote: > dear Harsha, > > Ramana Maharshi never spoke ironically about any > other teacher > or guru or anybody else and when any of the people > was criticized > he would have always defended the criticized party > and find only > good words about it. We were talking about what you > said about JK. > You've been ironically about him. That is sad for > you only, > and you cannot make me laugh if you talk like that > about other > teachers pointing to their so-called enlightenment > the way you do. I > remember once you said so about Balsekar. If these > teachers > are not enlightened according to your standards, > that's fine, > what is striking me is your attitude not their > unenlightenment. > But of course Ramana Maharshi is the unique Ramana > Maharshi and other > than following him I do nothing else, we his > devotees are still > so far from everything that he has been or is, > I am sorry you are talking like that about other > teachers, > that's all, I find this unfair from your part, > as about God and Guru and the He with H and not h > then He is > only Ramana Maharshi and none other, > > vicki ******************** Thank you dear Vicki. I deserve to be chastised. I am basically pretty weak and give into temptation of humor and criticism. I will try to do better next time around. Love, Harsha ===== /join Mail SpamGuard - Read only the mail you want. http://antispam./tools Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 20, 2004 Report Share Posted February 20, 2004 , "AnneChris" <am009a8716@b...> wrote: > Like Sri Tonyji says we are in the entertainment > business. By the way, Tony, I am getting private > messages from people saying that you are trying to > dominate the sangha. One Sangha leader even has left > in protest. The Ashram is breaking down. I don't know > what to do. > > Somebody help me! :-). > > Love, > Harsha > > Dear Harsha > I wouldent worry the Ashram seems very much alive to me. > Tony is stimulating a lot of dialogue. > Most times I dont agree with him but I respect his points even though it seems at times he has no respect for sages I have mentioned. > He is teaching me not to mind. > Namaste Chris Namaste C, Thats because there are sages and there are sage and onions. Most of them are onions, easy to peel and make your eyes sting.....ONS.Tony. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 20, 2004 Report Share Posted February 20, 2004 , Harsha <harshaimtm> wrote: > --- viorica weissman <viorica@z...> wrote: > > > > Hi Michael, > > > >> So I say yes, I resonate with the teaching of J. > > Krishnamurti > > > Hi Vicki, > > People have different perspectives on things. Saying > that Krishnamurti is horribly boring does not mean > that he is a bad person or anything. > > > > > Harsha thinks he is a pop up > > psychologist, > > you think he is boring, vicki > > > Vicki, Michael never said that Krishnamurti is boring. > Michael said that K is horribly boring, which is > different than just being plain boring. > > Okay, I admit it Vicki. I am trying to make you laugh > but its not working. Sorry. You are the best Vicki. > > Like Sri Tonyji says we are in the entertainment > business. By the way, Tony, I am getting private > messages from people saying that you are trying to > dominate the sangha. One Sangha leader even has left > in protest. The Ashram is breaking down. I don't know > what to do. > > Somebody help me! :-). > > Love, > Harsha > > dear harshaji, thats terrible...people shouldn't be complaniing to you..shame on them.......tony is an old man and therefore deserves utmost honor and respect....when he leaves his mortal frame he will be a videh-mukti...thats a cause for celebration! cheers tonyji devi > > ===== > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 20, 2004 Report Share Posted February 20, 2004 , Harsha <harshaimtm> wrote: > > --- viorica weissman <viorica@z...> wrote: > > > > Hi Harsha, > > > > fortunately truth survives only however horribly > > boring it might be, > > fair spirit in human beings survives only however > > horribly > > boring it might be to others, that's the beauty of > > it all, > > time and history cleans up everything else, > > so there is nothing to worry, > > > > vicki > > Thanks dear Vicki for your sweet offering. > > Please forgive me but I am no longer sure what we are > talking about. > > Love to all > Harsha > >devi: we were talking about the merits of being boring Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 20, 2004 Report Share Posted February 20, 2004 Alan - Harsha Friday, February 20, 2004 3:07 PM Re: J. Krishnamurti - Sorrow has an ending, Why pick on "sorrow" alone for an ending? There isalso "joy", "pleasurehappiness" etc. Are they notworthy candidates for consideration?What is this need to "resolve" it? It presumes thereis a resolution. Sorrow is inherent in that. Even ifthe goal is to "end" sorrow, there is sorrow inherentin that.To see clearly means to see clearly.Beginnings and endings typically take care ofthemselves. Love to all,Harsha--- viorica weissman <viorica (AT) zahav (DOT) net.il> wrote:> Sorrow follows us like our shadow, and we do not> seem to be able to > resolve it...> > Sorrow has an ending, but it does not come about> through any system > or method. There is no sorrow when there is> perception of "what is". > When you see very clearly "what is" - whether it be> the fact that > life has no fulfilment, or the fact that your son,> your brother, or > your husband is dead; when you know the fact as it> actually is, > without interpretation, without having an opinion> about it, without > any ideation, ideals, or judgements, then I think> there is the ending > of sorrow. =====/join Magazine and Website is atDo you ? Mail SpamGuard - Read only the mail you want.http://antispam./tools/join "Love itself is the actual form of God."Sri RamanaIn "Letters from Sri Ramanasramam" by Suri Nagamma Attachment: (image/jpeg) blindleadingblind.jpg [not stored] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 21, 2004 Report Share Posted February 21, 2004 Dear Vicki, I appreciate the statement that you made in this post. I can only say that the "truth" of spiritual matters can't really be expressed. Even with ten million words the "truth" cannot be told. It is my personal feeling that words are best used to instruct the aspirant about sadhana. And the aspirants time is more wisely spent in actual sadhana rather than listening to endless discourses. Deepest regards, michael --- viorica weissman <viorica wrote: > > Hi Michael, > > there are those people in this world who would not > accept other than > truth in everything that makes up their life - in > their > relationships, in their talks, in their deeds, they > would never > accept to see anything in the world other than it > exactly is, > they would never accept to see an emotion or a > feeling and take it > for what it is not. To be truthful to oneself till > deep down > the subtlest layers of mind and heart and see what > is as what is > is one of the the many fantastic things that could > be said about > J. Krishnamurti. No, he is not the pop up > psychologist not even for a > split of a second. A pop up psychologist would not > have attracted > millions as he did. But people were and are > continuosly invited > to see themselves as they are. And that is one thing > that even if > I miss to do it I am brought back to the mirror > again and there is no > choice for this me left other than see it exactly as > it is. > So I say yes, I resonate with the teaching of J. > Krishnamurti > which brought during those sixty years of talks, > truth and only truth > and only truth and he was commited to talk only > truth and even if > his talks may sound boring to some people they > nevertheless > are truth. Any human being who is so commited to > truth as he was > is not interested in other than truth in anything > that constitutes > our life, and so he was; no one can take from the > caesar what belongs > to the caesar, can't one? So sixty years of talks > about truth in any > subject that he ever touched and explored cannot be > taken back from > him in any way. It is much more than eloquence. His > eloquence > was a gift that he used to serve truth. > > You said he doesn't offer his audience a practical > method to reach > his condition. Well he actually does, he has been > doing so all his > life. Let's take what is happening here now. > Division. Division > brought in by thought. Harsha thinks he is a pop up > psychologist, > you think he is boring, I don't remember what Vicki > thinks about it, > what I think you all know. So what is happening > here? > Division. Division brought up by thought. He would > invite his > audience to observe it, to see a simple truth, a > simple fact like > that - how thougt creates division. Read the dialogs > from the > beginning. And observe what has taken place here. > That is > what human beings are doing all the time. And any > human being who > loves truth, sees that. And we know we cannot do > anything about it, > but observe it. Commited to truth, we will have only > truth, > from the most insignificant to the most holly, to > the source > of our being. > > vicki > > > I began reading Krishnamurti many, many years ago. > > > Now, I can't read him at all. I certainly agree > with > > Harsha's statement, "Most of the time, he seems > wordy > > and boring to me." I find him to be horribly > boring; > > but beyond that I feel that his teachings are > > practically useless. He doesn't offer his > audience > > any practical method to reach his own lofty > condition. > > He he just rambles on endlessly. But he does > have an > > unusual talent to be able to twist any > conversation > > around to his point of view which never really > seems > > to be determined. > > > > SNIP > > > > Regards, > > > > michael > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 21, 2004 Report Share Posted February 21, 2004 Dear Vicki, Thank you for your kind words. I too read your postings on various lists and I truly enjoy them. Warmest regards, michael --- viorica weissman <viorica wrote: > > dear Michael, > > i follow your dialogues a long time by now on > different lists and I > do appreciate you as a beautiful being and spirit; I > have no doubts > that even if you don't read JK and find him so > 'horribly boring' you > do appreciate his spirit and mind and heart as those > of a highly > developed being who was in need of no spiritual > practice, > nice to be in touch with you, > vicki > > , Michael Bowes > > <rmichaelbowes> wrote: > > Dear Vicki, > > > > I appreciate the statement that you made in this > post. > > > > I can only say that the "truth" of spiritual > matters > > can't really be expressed. Even with ten million > > words the "truth" cannot be told. > > > > It is my personal feeling that words are best used > to > > instruct the aspirant about sadhana. And the > > aspirants time is more wisely spent in actual > sadhana > > rather than listening to endless discourses. > > > > Deepest regards, > > > > michael > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 21, 2004 Report Share Posted February 21, 2004 Hello dear friends in Sangha please what is a POPUP psychologist??? of course Krishnamurti can be experienced as boring terrible boring or wonderful as our ego experiences it Krishnamurti for me michael bindel was fantastic even being young because he had the courage of not being a "Gd" of of the theosophical society but "I" experienced him as rather "cold" strange because with Ramana I felt always deep deep deep........... LOVE warmneth clearcut just "great" after "him" I never come across somebody who transmitted GD in this clear direct nonsentimental nonevading way nobody nobody it was sooo clear clear as his straight forward message with many seemingly do not like and appreciate his stating that I AM WHO I AM is all what vedic wisdom in so many thousands of years stated the same are there any discussion really necessary after words messages truth like this??? I feel only the urge to shape my daily life according to this truth nothing left besides this every moment every second every breath what else is needed??? DEAR HARSHA ARE YOU JOKING??????? The Ashram is breaking down. I don't knowwhat to do.Somebody help me! :-). never never never not allowed :-))))))))) lovingly michael bindel not allowed!!!!!! hugs hugs hugs - Harsha Friday, February 20, 2004 6:57 PM Re: Re: J. Krishnamurti - Sorrow has an ending, --- viorica weissman <viorica (AT) zahav (DOT) net.il> wrote:> > Hi Michael, > >> So I say yes, I resonate with the teaching of J.> Krishnamurti Hi Vicki,People have different perspectives on things. Sayingthat Krishnamurti is horribly boring does not meanthat he is a bad person or anything.> Harsha thinks he is a pop up> psychologist, > you think he is boring, vicki Vicki, Michael never said that Krishnamurti is boring.Michael said that K is horribly boring, which isdifferent than just being plain boring.Okay, I admit it Vicki. I am trying to make you laughbut its not working. Sorry. You are the best Vicki.Like Sri Tonyji says we are in the entertainmentbusiness. By the way, Tony, I am getting privatemessages from people saying that you are trying todominate the sangha. One Sangha leader even has leftin protest. The Ashram is breaking down. I don't knowwhat to do.Somebody help me! :-).Love,Harsha=====/join Magazine and Website is atDo you ? Mail SpamGuard - Read only the mail you want.http://antispam./tools/join "Love itself is the actual form of God."Sri RamanaIn "Letters from Sri Ramanasramam" by Suri Nagamma Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 21, 2004 Report Share Posted February 21, 2004 , "> > but its not working. Sorry. You are the best Vicki. > > > > Like Sri Tonyji says we are in the entertainment > > business. By the way, Tony, I am getting private > > messages from people saying that you are trying to > > dominate the sangha. One Sangha leader even has left > > in protest. The Ashram is breaking down. I don't know > > what to do. > > > > Somebody help me! :-). > > > > Love, > > Harsha > > > > > dear harshaji, thats terrible...people shouldn't be complaniing to > you..shame on them.......tony is an old man and therefore deserves > utmost honor and respect....when he leaves his mortal frame he will > be a videh-mukti...thats a cause for celebration! > > cheers tonyji > > devi Namaste, I actually didn't mention it earlier but I have been getting private messages supporting my position. Videha;Mukta, I should be so lucky...I deserve no respect for my age only for what I may say or do, and that is reflected glory also.........ONS..Tony. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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