A Conversation on Mtrka

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bindu:

namaste shambu

Shambhu says:

Namaste...fine?

bindu:

yes, you?

Shambhu says:

mmm...a little more empty than of late

bindu:

wots on today?

Shambhu says:

i'm feeling ambivalent about ...well, everything today

bindu:

Shambhu says:

by remaining prior to arising then..theres not a lot of action ...

bindu:

m

bindu:

 

bindu:

but what action can be done> no action arises even in

action.......... a moving arrow always moves in a space equal to

itself so it does not move at all even though it appears to move.

Shambhu says:

ii find myself reluctant to enter into...anything because any

touch...any opinion...any action leads to repercussion and more

involvement

bindu:

..again how can anything move if all that moves is empty?

bindu:

who enters what action?

 

bindu:

in what do repercussions occur?

bindu:

in what does involvement happen?

bindu:

who is involved?

 

Shambhu says:

in the sea of endless thought...

bindu:

what thought where?

bindu:

no thought arises

bindu:

emptiness canot arise

Shambhu says:

because its already substratum?

bindu:

of course, if everything arises from emptiness its nature is

intrinsically empty

 

another way of looking at it might be what SEEMS to arise (But

doesn't in reality actually arise) is mere potential only .... it is

a sea or ocean of formlessness... Trying to manifest as a definition

of the Infinite Absolute...

thus it is illusion... Fluid imagination if you like.

 

It is self-arisen potential ... due to the potential of

nothingness/emptiness/infinite Being to have, contain or be all and

everythign along with all of Time also.

 

Such that it is an eternal illusion, but the infnite absolute is that

in which the eternally arising illusion arises such that it

transcends TIME and with that eternity also.

Shambhu says:

by interacting with the illusion...by changing it...by not remaining

as witness on the shore of the river....there appears to be a

requirement for future immersion...to take the illusion as being real.

 

bindu:

..yes you are right BUT, the problem lies in the answer to the

question who is interacting with what?

 

HE too is an illusion

 

Shambhu says:

easy to maintain self as question mark while on the banks....

 

bindu:

what banks though? What shore? where? in what?

 

Shambhu says:

ah...not a single thing actually is

 

bindu:

yes that is true, so who does what, where ? What is done?

 

Shambhu says:

god only ...knows, everything is or is not accomplished by itself.

 

bindu:

but shambu .. nothing IS... not even itself.......... nothing is

happening

nothing can happen.

 

Shambhu says:

appears to happen....

 

bindu:

yes, but who cares?

 

Shambhu says:

m

 

bindu:

have you seen the second image at the animated bindu site?

bindu:

http://www.upnaway.com/~bindu/animbindu/animbindu.htm it equates to

mind that is empty but

not yet immersed, it is mere concept of i without form, I without

form is still "I" you see.

 

Maybe look at the third perhaps read the text too.

 

Shambhu says:

k

 

bindu:

this black hole is the Ocean on whose edge we stand at the end of our

sadhana ..

it takes a long long time to figure out how to jump in such that the

I is united

with the Absolute. This edge may as well be a line or wall that is

higher than infnity

-- or a single point smaller than a quark, it matters not, it is

still I.

 

Shambhu says:

Then..time itself can only be cognised while jiva...or as a brief

flash from point of view of the absolute

 

bindu:

yes, thus the 3rd image such that the very thought that "I" am

thinking is an error.

 

Shambhu says:

a hairs breadth apart...

 

bindu:

Yes or much much less,

 

Shambhu says:

m

 

bindu:

what is hard to grasp is the nature of Time. Time whether infnite or

infinitesimal ...

would appear to the Infnite as if it were nothing.

 

Shambhu says:

cannot be grasped by anything still in time..

 

bindu:

yes, that is the key to it.

 

 

We tend to think that WE can merge with The Absolute, but this would

occur in Time

such that we cannot merge with The Absolute, we must be the one who

WATCHES from

beyond Time as it occurs and remain there always thereafter.

 

Shambhu says:

and out of time..only the absolute is

 

bindu:

yes ONE AND ONLY ONE Absolute

 

What we do not understand is the fact that what is conscious in us IS

the Absolute Itself

it is not a man or being, nor a jiva, nor a purusha, nor a soul,

 

Shambhu says:

neti neti

 

bindu:

It is an Infinite incredible Conscios ONE who is aware of being

conscious

in itself it knows itself but has no definition..

 

The cosmos could be called its MIND, but like any mind, nothing in it

is real....

its is merely potentially real. Thus it is the potential-to-be of The

Absolute

The Cosmos is nothing but i-amNESS.

 

Back to the old Wetness is NOT water again.

 

we cannot say the Absolute is ConsciousNESS at all, because

Consciousness is existence

while The Absolute is transcendent of it. we can only say it exists

prior to consciousNESS

as sri-nissagadatta has shown.

 

The word MIND used generically throughout all the books is inadaquate

to convey what is meant

by Chit in Sanskrit, mind is that black hole, which still smacks

of "I"

 

MIND whether the Cosmos or uncountable Buddha realms is still Mind -

Yes, it is the VERY SELF OF I

but it is not The Absolute.

 

Shambhu says:

This is where ramakrishna wanted to remain?

 

bindu:

Yes, but he missed it, because he siad "Oh Kali please do not take me

completely into you because i will disappear then who will worship

you?

 

bindu:

But this is due to him thinking he would die if he was totally united

with the whole

 

Shambhu says:

kali is already self-worshipping; he would in a way be...that which

feared its' own demise

would have to dissolve/die

 

bindu:

Yes, as it says on the other page "the existence of God is neccessary

for the Cosmos to exist"

ie. parapurusha. see the link called The Appearance of God at this

URL>>>

http://www.upnaway.com/~bindu/yogicfire/

 

Shambhu says:

oh oh oh parasumgate

 

bindu:

Yes, so then, beyond god is HIS or her unknowable absolute

That Alone knows ITSELF.. no man, no god, no being can say the words

that will describe it

because CONCEPT hides it... this is mtrka... as spoken of in the

Triadic Heart of Siva.

 

Shambhu says:

Tell me more of mtrka...the word..

 

bindu:

Seed .. Number. bindu........ concept......... letter ...... an

infinitesimal partical of anything . a sylable....... CONCEPT itself

(all the above are concepts) have in them the potential to cause the

cosmos because the cosmos must exist for them to come into being;

thus Mantra is the source of being; but the unknown thing is this:

 

The Counting is of the same thing over and over again - each a

reflection

(which is distorted by the rest of the Cosmos, because a given thing

is seen

in the context of all else) of the last; such that there appears

unccountable

numbers of existent things and beings of impossible diversity all

built up from

the first bindu of consciousness - from the first spark as it were .

or the first

photon of light.

 

Think of it! that 1st photon requires the whole Cosmos in which to

occur such that it IS the cosmos

this is the secret of the Siva Lingam, it signifies that all things

came forth from him.In reality

though it is genderless.

 

Shambhu says:

And returning to that same spark

 

bindu:Yes, as in the image flashing on the page at

http://www.upnaway.com/~bindu/animbindu/animbindu.htm

 

Shambhu says:

and the cradle of the lingam?

 

bindu:

Note that at the final moment there is the space left then it

collapses also, this is the cradle or void

 

THE "I MIND" - impersonal but still I - it exists as a concept

---- or more properly AS Concept Itself - i.e. mtrka

 

Shambhu says:

om

 

bindu:

yes OM

 

Shambhu says:

ah, hum!

 

bindu:

It is the Om which gives tension or moment or creates potential or is

the shakti....

this resides in the emptiness as mere potency. This causes the

vibration which

becomes the Cosmos as it is called in the Spanda Karika.

 

Shambhu says:

until it reaches bindu and then disappears.shouldnt it be m-om?

 

 

bindu:Yes, We know that LIGHT is a wave it is vibrating - SO the Om

is Light

which accounts for all of relativity. We know that at its heart the

atom arises from light

sometimes it is there sometimes it isn't it is flashing in and out of

existence

the thing that is not understood though is this:

 

 

THE WHOLE THING IS DOING IT|

 

The entire cosmos appears in less than a heartbeat - and dissappears

again

it is a pulsating thrumming light - it is Spanda-Shakti - it is MOM!

Om

 

Shambhu says:

Mind links all these flashing s together to form a concept of time?

 

bindu:

Yes, that is it precisely.

 

YES, this hides the truth.

Shambhu says:

mind?

 

bindu:

MIND, is TIME - ALL TIME - all Times!

 

Why ? because nothing can apppear that is not Mind, mind is the wrong

word though

MIND is the HOLE in reality -- IT is Time

 

 

The Conscious ONE is NOT mind - there is no mind. NONE.

 

Time cannot and does not exist in eternal infinity.. because infinity

cannot be counted

due to the fact that all we will achieve is counting the same SINGLE

infinite over and

over again... For the same reason Concept cannot describe the

Absolute...

 

Mtrka can point at it, but not describe it. Mtrka in English would

translate to Potential-to-Be (the Be clause, being Concept) NOT "A"

Concept but "CONCEPT ITSELF" - as said earlier, Concept requires the

Cosmos. bindu is the final truth, but bindu is a mere point of origin

only... it is like a door it is the first concept Cosmos is

ConsciousNess. IT is NOT Conscious.