HOw the State of Existence is Like a Dream

[Guest guest]

bindu:

hi manoo

Avadhuta:

hello sir

bindu:

now i will tell you how the state of existence is like a dream do you

have time?

 

Avadhuta:

Yes sir

 

bindu:

m, A man goes to sleep and thinks he dreams he awakes and thinks he

has awoken or he falls asleep and sleeps soundly. He comes and goes

to other places thinking he has come or gone

 

He walks around as if he is moving between this place and that all of

this occurs in both the dream and the waking states....

 

He meets people and has experiences of all descriptions and believes

he lives and dies. He meets many others who appear to be having an

experience of life who go through the same things he does.

 

In the case of a realized person this is not the same

 

It is written in many books that there are the states of waking dream

and deep sleep; Trika Saivism talks of the turiya state, this is the

state of the one who has realized the truth; it is called a fourth

state but it is not because it is the place from which and IN which,

all the other states appear. It combines and embraces all others..

 

Now then i will tell you how this works

 

A body thought of as the self of a person (the one who is thought of

as the jiva, soul, i , me and the normal way in which a man thinks of

himself or someone else) is always involved as, and thought of

as, "the self who is involved in the actions" performed in all states.

 

The I one thinks is ones-self - defined as "a referred-toME" in

the mind-space of the body in the case of the waking state, and

defined as mere presence in a dream, is always thought to be the self

of the jiva, soul, I....

 

Now this I-who-one-thinks-is-ones-self goes about as if existing as a

real entity or being and is always referred to as "I" by the Jiva or

Soul and is also thought of as the total jiva, soul Or "I"

 

This is where the problem named "existence of I" arises in both the

dream and the waking state.

 

This means that in all states there must be placed an I who is

present in all the states and experiences had in the states of waking

and dream, so that those states can be said to have been experienced

by someone who exists.

 

If this was not so then it could not be said that "I" Had the

experience of the Waking state, or of a dream ..... or of having

slept soundly or of having had any experience what-so-ever.

 

In short this means, an "I" must be placed in all states if they are

to be known to have been experienced.

 

If that "I" was not placed there --- there could be no experience of

any state except the Turiya because the foundation of the other

states is the Turiya state.

 

Do you see?

 

Avadhuta:

Yes but, why does The Real "I" exisating as The turiya tend to

differentiate and show such an huge variety of experiences even

though it itself is non-dual and ONE?

 

bindu:

Oh you shall see, Now i will describe it.

 

What is not understood is this....

 

That "I" that is placed in any state is the cause of the Cosmos or

realm/loka within which it is placed... This means that because it is

put there, that Cosmos appears or comes into being (The Cosmos is

created by placing that "I" into the State)

 

This happens because in order to have the experience of that state

the Real Self appears as the Cosmos in which is placed the Jiva/soul

or "I the being" called me this man.

 

Think about this a moment

 

This is why there are such huge variety of dreams, and is also why

the Cosmos a given being experiences in any state, appears to be a

different one to the one someone else experiences.

 

I am saying that while an "I" of any description is thought imagines

or projected into being the Absolute Self appears as the Cosmos

(though it isn't) and the Jiva is placed in it.

 

bindu:

do you follow>?

 

Avadhuta:

Yes ...

 

bindu:

simply put it means the Self Creates the Cosmos so that the Jiva can

go there and be in a state, else where would the jiva exist? It would

not.

 

Avadhuta:

I the absolute, creates cosmos which is Him and through Jiva it

reflects itself to experience what is Him ?

 

bindu:

Yes that is exactly and precisely what is happening

 

Now because the will of The Absolute is locating itself in the jiva,

the jiva appears to be living in and experiencing the state of either

dream deep-sleep or waking because the Real Self Has manifested as

the Cosmos for the jiva to go into.

and the cosmos appears real due to that; as does the dream appear

real to the dreamer also.

 

However a man lies down and goes to sleep and his outer world

disappears totally, he is oblivious to it. He awakes and remembers he

had a dream - or he says i slept soundly not remembering the state of

his mind as he lay dormant in the state of laying inert and dreamless

sleep.

 

Does this mean that the dream world (the Astral Plane) is real and

the waking world false, or does it mean that the waking world is real

and the dream false?

 

Does it mean they are both false --- or it does it mean that they are

both nothing more than reflections of each other?

 

If they are reflections of each other then neither is real ... but

this causes the question ... From where did the reflection originate

in the first place?

 

In the first place it must have begun in order to begin to exist as a

reflection - this means the reflection must be caused by something

outside the mirror.

 

Now then it is obvious that the consciousness which appears as

perception in all beings, is due to interaction with the cosmos or

the senses. for example without the jiva (who must have senses in

order to experience being in a state) being placed in one of the

states in order to experience there could be no state at all

experienced.

 

If he had no senses he could not and would not experience any

state .... this does not mean there would be no experience of that

state ... it means HE who is the JIVA. would not experience it.

because due to the fact of there being no senses in the case of the

missing jiva there could be no perception had by anyone; and

therefore no Cosmos would exist for that man who had no senses.

 

Now then in the case of the Turiya , it is not another state in which

a Jiva is placed or projected by the will such as the dream, waking

and deep-sleep states, and for that reason cannot be called a state.

 

Nor is any idea of selfhood projected, visualized or imagined as

existing in it. In it all and every kind of combination of emptiness

and imagination, both real and imagined in either the physical or

metaphysical existences, exist or do not exist.

 

It is a completely free state of manifestation of anything existing

coming into being or having existed or not existed, being in

existence, potential existence, or partial existence existing as pure

consciousness. The mind of the one who has realized this resides in

it permanently no matter if the body is asleep, walking about or

dead. He has become Infinite Being.

 

It is the state of The Being of The Absolute. In other words it is

the actual being-ness of The Absolute.

 

Now then in the case of The Absolute... He is still aware of the

things a normal person sees and experiences, but they are seeen and

known is a totally different way.

 

He does not see them as if a being that could be thought of, or even

imagined as having any form is having the experience of the things,

or of the Small Cosmos in which the body of the man who has realized

the Absolute is existing.

 

It is a case of the Absolute actually seeing and experiencing the

things which exist inside That Absolute. The Realized one has entered

the Absolute and is Conscious as it.

 

He sees the body of the man who has realized him; He sees the bodies

of all beings; He sees the states of dream and waking and also deep

sleep.

 

He sees the man who has realized him lay down to sleep but he never

goes to sleep. He sees the dream happening but is never unaware of

the room in which the man sleeps; nor is he unaware of the deep-sleep

even as the man sleeps.

 

He is aware at all times of who he is.

 

In the case of the man who thinks he is the jiva or soul or "I this

being" that one thinks he exists and goes into a Cosmos or state as

that I-who-he-thinks-he-is and the cosmos appears for him to exist in

it.

 

For example one cannot go anywhere if nowhere exists can he? So the

cosmos appears out of him first and moves backward in Time until the

jiva appears inside it, such that Time also appears out of The

Absolute and therefore everything is in him but he-who-thinks-he-

exists-as-jiva never realizes it.

 

So then he is the source of the reflection called consciousness. is

this clear?

 

Avadhuta:

Yes, but where does dead man stand in this picture?

 

bindu:

The dead man disapppears once the mirror gets broken and dissolves

back into dust. For example if the man ceased to move there can be no

reflections to expand the Cosmos out of him.

 

If is the movement of the heart and the thought in the the man that

makes the Cosmos appear out of the Absolute

when this movement stops the jiva dissolves. SUch that this is called

stopping the Vital Breathe.

 

This is why the thought and dream will not stop while a man lives.

The breath goes in and out you see. This makes the reflections; when

you breath not you die. Even for the realized being there are dreams

and a heart beat. He thinks

but he lives beyond the body knowing the body is the window through

which the Self comes.

 

When he decides his work is done he stops the dream by remaining

still and enters mahasamadhi. The prana has stopped you see....

 

Avadhuta:

mm...

 

bindu:

now you understand the law of cause and effect when these laws are

not opperational in the body, the body dies; for example if he ceases

to move he dies, or he stops it by killing it he dies.

 

bindu:

now i must go for an hour i will be back there will be more on this.

 

Avadhuta:

Oh okay sir I will send you the peom ..sir i must say in case of my

brothers death. your words solaced me beyond limit Thanks may be

because they were core truth That which is ...

 

bindu:

Yes.

 

Time moves in both the dream and the waking state as the field in

which the experience occurs as i said before; so the cosmos appears

out of him first and moves backward in Time until the jiva appears

inside it.

 

Thus the dream progresses as does the waking experience of being,

sleep occurs or dream to preserve the continuity of time and hence

existence as having passed or existed such that the existence of I

does not end till ones Clock has run out and he thinks he is living

either in the dream or the waking state.

 

For example: If the heart ceased to beat both states would disappear

for him. If time did not unfold out of him, there could be no place

in which to be, thus the universe expands and exists by the flux of

the movement of the atoms also; without them there is no universe

appearing at all. If the momement of the atoms stopped there could be

no universe at all.

 

Movement of the bowells, movement of the blood, movement of the

prana, movement of the breath - all must exist in order that a being

of any description exist - Time exists as the unfolding Cosmos, this

is the fragmented Atman (but it only appears to be fragmented)

 

But let us get back to the individual being who thinks he exists as

the iw ho is either dreaming or waking or sleeping

 

The heart continues to beat and the blood screams through his veins,

the breath goes in and goes out, the atoms in his body flux and spin,

his sleeping body moves on the bed or his body walks around in his

life, without action he dies, his acts are either his body acting or

his heart beating, his blood flowing in his veins or the prana in his

head.

 

He eats, his system digests and so forth, he cannot exist without

movement; so then this is his state, he looks at the movement and

thinks it is he who is moving; but he looks only at a local area in

the whole and does not notice that all the other beings are also

existing in the same state. He never sees that the true nature of the

reflections are reflections of the particle of The Atman which

decided it was an I casuing it to become objectified and projected in

the Absloute by the decision to look at a single particle as himself.

 

Each of those beings appear in such diversity because he looked at

one as himself, this split or fragmented or reflected an infinity of

selves into being; this infinite number of selves or possible selves

hidden in the creative urge of all beings which makes them procreate,

is existing due to his wanting to exist as a self or Jiva.

 

When the jiva is gone he knows who he is! Once he realizes who or

what he is, there is the recognition and understanding that the Self

in all beings is none Other than The Same Self; at that point he can

get into the Turiya state; he cannot get there any other way.

 

First he must become himself then he can know his own Conscious Self

as nothing but the State itself. This means the state and the Self

Are-One-And-The-Same

 

The reason behind this is this...

 

He who has manifested all these selves by existing... cannot merge

with the source of the manifestation (ie. himself) unless he resolve

his diversified self back into his own conscious being.

 

It is like a peanut that has been crushed- you can see fragments of

peanut- but you canot reassemble the nut

he must resassembel the nut back into infinite being- put it back

where it came from

 

So that the fragments are gone...

 

Now this implies there is a Self who is compossed of the

reconstituted framentation. This is not the case at all, because when

all fragments are resolved where can one exist in contrast to many

(i.e one appears due to NUMBER) when number is gone where is

counting? Either of One or Zero?

 

When the self is counted there can be no reference to another to give

it limit ..... it is after all Infinite.... thus the whole is

resolved into The One and ONLY Self

 

He does not see another, if he did then he would not be in himself he

would be counting others, such as one and two and so on.

 

So then if he looks at jiva as himself he has seen Jiva ("I") over

there inside his Absolutely Infinite Being.. and by that act of

seeing himself as jiva the whole fragmentation of himself is existing

again.

 

So then the Turiya is the state of looking at all as ones-self... not

just of looking at the understanding that The Self Dwells in all

beings, but also that Time appears in the self. This means all beings

appear in The Self. He is not only in them as the very self of all,

but they are existing in him...

 

So to be in the Turiya is to remain still in the Infinite and know

that YOU-THE-SELF-ARE-THAT-INFINITE in which all appears even the

body of the man which has realized the truth is to be the state

itself in which all states occur in the Self, not merely in the body.

Because the place that the dream body or the physical body is

existing in, is the Self, and is in the self.

 

This shows that it is To sit as if not existing in and as the

Infinite Absolute and look at dreaming and waking and deep sleeping

of all beings as occuring within that self who is sitting in that and

As that Absloute. Thus he is formless conscious awareness looking at

his own consciousness appearing in him

 

He is thus the state and the occurences in the state. So there in the

Turiya state (which cannot really be called "in" or "a state " as

such) there is no being there.

 

bindu:

bindu:

there is Infinite Self, non-formed and free from existence while

alive, that one who has attained this has become jivamkuta

 

He is awake in dream, in waking he is awake to himself. He goes

deliberately into deep sleep while he is dreaming to change the dream

as he wishes, or he does not. He is awake in the world and dreams at

the same time He is conscious on and as all levels and beings at all

times because Time is appearing in him - yet saying the word "within"

cannot be correct...because he is limitless and has no outside nor

any inside; thus he is all that exists or does not exists - he is

truly aware of his infinite nature

for it is his very self.

 

 

OM

 

Now to wake up in the dream or to remain awake in deep-sleep, or to

become realized in the waking state one must wake up to who one

really is ....

 

how to do that? There are a million books millions of blabber mouths

all sayin blah blah blah

 

few know even ewen can tell it. many want to know many think they

know, Only he himself knows

 

Many want to tell others....... they do not see The Self is talking

to The Self in The Self as The Self

 

Others want to be gurus, teachers and saviors etc..

 

blah blah blah - fools all

 

He is awake in Himself there are no others

 

So then to awaken to The Self of The Self

 

Get away from any designation of selfhood - Get away from any

designation of any description that sees duality of any description -

become infinite, if you attach being to any form of any sort - you

will create the Cosmos and go into the Cosmos as that being and lose

your infinitude. Because infinity transcends the NUMBER ONE and the

number zero also

 

Zero anythings or one of anything - implies the rest, so empty mind

will not help you either.

 

Infinity is not a number - nor countable

 

So BE it!

 

Or be bound to dream and waking eternally living and dying again and

again as what you think you are.

 

Understand that all those forms are appearing within you, all those

times, all those lives, all those events

all the stars, all the supernovas and black holes; all are within

you. So wake up!

 

Stop pretending you are a stupid limited individual - stop being a

Being - but you cannot while ever you think other beings exist- even

if you think you are it and still think there are others than you

then you exist.

 

 

There is no other - there are no others - there never were - never

can be.

 

 

I am all is what YOU must realize- You Must Say deep in your

Consciousness "I AM ALL THAT EXISTS!"

 

But it is no good thinking you are all, if you imagine there are any

other beings, things, events, times, objects, planets, stars or

anything else who or which are not part of you.

 

Om