GURUS and gurus and more gurus ........

April 24, 2004

Do you know something?

1) i was in the Hare Krishna movement once.

At that time, i Heard about swami Kirtanananda Prabhu ( west virginia

temple) having molested little boys in the ashram. Also, he murdered

a devotee.

i spent 7 years in the movement - invested my youth , energy, time

and my hard earned money.

2) I was a Tm meditator once . Having Paid $2500 for a course just to

learn how to meditate on bija mantra Krim.

At that time, i was totally smitten with the "deepak chopra" bug...

since then, we also heard about sex scandals involving Deepak chopra.

3) I am an admirer of Osho and his books are my 'guru' and we have

heard so many stories about Osho - from his Visa scandal

upto 'orgies' in his oregon ashram.

4)AH! satya sai baba .. I was (am still) his devotee too! i had live

darshan of him once in puttaparthi and another time at whitefield

bangalore ...

then , i heard about his homesexual encounter with a western disciple

5) Gurumayi - (swami chidivilasananda) - i went and participated in a

retreat in new york... i heard so many stories about her and her guru

swami muktananda and sex scandals in her ashram .

....

this goes on and on ...

and do i hate anyone of these gurus? No, not at all ! because in

following all these paths , i learned so many valuable things ...

While serving in the Hare Krishna ashram, i learned how to love

Krishna and learned about Bhakti yoga ,

while practicing TM, my creative faculties were really sharp and i

was able to perform so well in many areas . I continue to read Deepak

chopra's books till today. i visit Mahesh Yogi's Noida ashram

everytime i visit Delhi and do my bit by contributing to their

philantrophic activities .

then all those 'osho' allegations .... do those things bother me? i

luv the 'message' the man gave ... he was a free spirited

individual , someone my 'gypsy' nature could relate to! and his

writings ... marvellous .. on every subject ...

SAI BABA - that was a little hard on me ... i still have not

recovered from that 'one' as yet... because he was not just a guru !

he was bhagwan himself ! but guess what ! is it his fault that i

placed him on a pedestal? he just proved to be as 'human' as the rest

of us!

Gurumayi - that scandal about muktananda did not bother me in the

least... for, she is a dynamite ! endowed with stunning good looks ,

this woman taught me how to breathe in and out the 'so-ham'

mantra ... siddha yoga...

I have seen most of these gurus - ammachi, karunamayi, sree maa,

nirmala devi, mother mira ..... etc....

we may hear some scandals about them also aT some point ... may be

not 'sex' scandals -misuse of public funds, may be! or some such

thing... Does that make them all bad, sinful etc?

and then the unkindest cut of all

shri ramakrishna ...

Jeffrey kirpaul's book on shri Ramakrishna -KALI'S CHILD

re shri ramakrishna's homosexual tendencies ...

so, what did i do? Did i take all these to heart? I learned something

valuable from each and every one of them ... and like a 'true'

seeker put it all behind me ... and move on to newer pastures...

my fear is not so much about sexual explotation of a sisya by a guru

but the 'emotional' explotation !

You place yourself in the hands of a therapist and if he expoits you

emotionally that is as bad as his explopting sexually ...

The other day i met this very handsome yoga teacher ( a six footer)

maybe in his early 30s - awesome looking ; hatha yogi " large luminous

eyes , vajra like body and a face full of radiance and where do u

think i met hin in karunamayi's retreat ... i looked at him

spellbound ...here i am a 60 year old , well past my prime , turned

on by a young handsome yoga teacher! you know what guys, women do get

attracted to spiritual persons ... because of their 'aura'

i am sure all his female students may make advances on

him!! before u know it, he will be out of business ...facing law

suits

well,i think we should overlook all these 'sex' scandals and just

focus on the 'teachings' and see if that makes us a more well rounded

person!!!

i may be wrong ...my 3 cents

WELL, believe me Osho did pay gor his indiscretions ... i think he

committed 'suicide ' and when he left his communes were in

disarray ...

BUT, OSHO WAS STILL A ORIGINAL THINKER ... i still like his views on

many subjects ...

let me ask you this ...

BILL CLINTON WAS INVOLVED IN SO MANY SCANDALS FROM PAULA JONES TO

MONICA LWEWINSKY ... still he was a great president ...

IN fact, i would necever vote for a presidenrt who looks asexual ...

i guess we want all gurus to be delbate monks no womder they end up

molesting young boys ...

......... i am sorry folks

April 24, 2004

Dear Adi Shakti,

Thank you for your lengthy and sincere message.

If I were a member of a religious commune I would be very happy if you were also a member.

You seem to me to be sincere, warm-hearted and creative.

You seem to be the sort who, once she makes a commitment, makes a total commitment.

But you also seem, if you will allow me to say so, to have totally

missed the point of what I have been saying.

Firstly, I have never thought, and never said, that sexual activity is

incompatible with spirituality.

Have you got that?

I have never thought, and I have never said, that sexual activity,

whether hetero or homo, is incompatible with spirituality.

What I have said is that hypocrisy, when practiced by someone who

proclaims himself to be a "Perfect Master"

negates the "Perfect Master" claim.

Is that hard to understand?

I would have thought that it is as easy as falling off a log.

What I have said is that when someone makes the claim, himself, (or herself)

that he, or she, (this is getting boring; I'm going to use the word

"he" and it will be understood that it means both "he" and "she".)

when someone makes the claim that he lives in such an exalted

spiritual state that he has "transcended" sex a long time ago,

that he lives in such a state of permanent "bliss" that the pleasures of the flesh are meaningless";

when these are claims are made by the guru himself,

and then it is discovered that not only is he a sex-addict

but he is particularly exploitative of the girls, or boys, that he screws,

then it is time to look again at his claims to be the "Perfect Master".

Adi Shakti, are you saying that sexual exploitation, of a very nasty kind,

goes perfectly well with, is perfectly congruous with,

the claim that "I am a Perfect Master, all beneficient, who has long

ago transcended lower attachments like sex?"

This is like someone receiving huge government funding to operate a

rehabilitation centre for alcoholics and, at the same time, operating

a still to manufacture cheap gin which he then sells to the addicts

that he is supposed to be assisting with their rehab.

And please don't draw the conclusion that I'm likening sex to cheap gin or an addiction to alcohol.

I have nothing personal against or for gin,

and I approve of sex,

although sexual exploitation is pretty nasty,

especially when conducted under the guise of "helping your spiritual progress",

and when conducted by gurus who encourage their disciples to "kiss their feet', literally,

because they, the gurus, are so "spiritually superior."

This is not rocket science, this point I'm making.

It is so simple that any halfway intelligent teenager can understand it in a moment.

And furthermore,

to be a real bastard in one's behaviour, especial one's sexual behaviour,

doesn't mean that one hasn't had some awakening experience.

Awakening is not all-or-nothing.

One can have partial awakening.

One can have some kind of partial awakening

and combine that partial awakening with a line of smooth sales-talk and make , as I said,

a nice little earner out of it.

One can have some kind of partial awakening and then claim to be the "Totally Awakened Master"

because claiming to be "Totally Awakened" will get you more disciples,

who give you more respect, and more money,

and more sex,

than they would give to someone who says, "Hey, I've just seen what

Nisargadatta means when he says 'You are not the mind and not the

body.' I'm not what you would call enlightened, by a long shot, but

have a look at this; I'll walk you through the steps."

The truthful claim, made with appropriate humility,

is much less likely to attract disciples who will prostrate themselves,

and open their wallets, and drop their knickers,

than the grandiose claims which we have heard so often.

Adi, I want to explore this thing you have said "i guess we want all

gurus to be delbate monks no womder they end up molesting young boys

.... "

No Adi, we don't all want spiritual teachers to be celibate (I presume

that's what you meant) monks. Very many of us are very happy to learn

from married men, or women;

or from single men or women who are quite open about their sexual activity.

What we don't want is to be told, by the guru himself, that he is incredibly spiritually advanced

(NB Harsha, I'm not mentioning any names)

and that the appropriate attitude to adopt is extreme reverence,

and then discover that the guru is addicted to sex and power and money,

just like some little tinpot dictator.

And that, Adi, is so obvious, so straightforward, that anyone who

doesn't see it doesn't want to see it.

All the best

Warwick

-

adi_shakthi16

Sunday, April 25, 2004 10:38 AM

GURUS and gurus and more gurus ........

Do you know something?1) i was in the Hare Krishna movement once.At

that time, i Heard about swami Kirtanananda Prabhu ( west

virginiatemple) having molested little boys in the ashram. Also, he

murdereda devotee.i spent 7 years in the movement - invested my youth

, energy, timeand my hard earned money.2) I was a Tm meditator once .

Having Paid $2500 for a course just tolearn how to meditate on bija

mantra Krim.At that time, i was totally smitten with the "deepak

chopra" bug...since then, we also heard about sex scandals involving

Deepak chopra.3) I am an admirer of Osho and his books are my 'guru'

and we haveheard so many stories about Osho - from his Visa

scandalupto 'orgies' in his oregon ashram.4)AH! satya sai baba .. I

was (am still) his devotee too! i had livedarshan of him once in

puttaparthi and another time at whitefieldbangalore ...then , i heard

about his homesexual encounter with a western disciple5) Gurumayi -

(swami chidivilasananda) - i went and participated in aretreat in new

york... i heard so many stories about her and her guruswami muktananda

and sex scandals in her ashram ....this goes on and on ...and do i

hate anyone of these gurus? No, not at all ! because infollowing all

these paths , i learned so many valuable things ...While serving in

the Hare Krishna ashram, i learned how to loveKrishna and learned

about Bhakti yoga ,while practicing TM, my creative faculties were

really sharp and iwas able to perform so well in many areas . I

continue to read Deepakchopra's books till today. i visit Mahesh

Yogi's Noida ashrameverytime i visit Delhi and do my bit by

contributing to theirphilantrophic activities .then all those 'osho'

allegations .... do those things bother me? iluv the 'message' the

man gave ... he was a free spiritedindividual , someone my 'gypsy'

nature could relate to! and hiswritings ... marvellous .. on every

subject ...SAI BABA - that was a little hard on me ... i still have

notrecovered from that 'one' as yet... because he was not just a guru

!he was bhagwan himself ! but guess what ! is it his fault that

iplaced him on a pedestal? he just proved to be as 'human' as the

restof us!Gurumayi - that scandal about muktananda did not bother me

in theleast... for, she is a dynamite ! endowed with stunning good

looks ,this woman taught me how to breathe in and out the

'so-ham'mantra ... siddha yoga...I have seen most of these gurus -

ammachi, karunamayi, sree maa,nirmala devi, mother mira .....

etc....we may hear some scandals about them also aT some point ...

may benot 'sex' scandals -misuse of public funds, may be! or some

suchthing... Does that make them all bad, sinful etc?and then the

unkindest cut of allshri ramakrishna ...Jeffrey kirpaul's book on

shri Ramakrishna -KALI'S CHILD re shri ramakrishna's homosexual

tendencies ...so, what did i do? Did i take all these to heart? I

learned somethingvaluable from each and every one of them ... and

like a 'true'seeker put it all behind me ... and move on to newer

pastures...my fear is not so much about sexual explotation of a

sisya by a gurubut the 'emotional' explotation ! You place yourself

in the hands of a therapist and if he expoits you emotionally that is

as bad as his explopting sexually ...The other day i met this very

handsome yoga teacher ( a six footer)maybe in his early 30s - awesome

looking ; hatha yogi " large luminouseyes , vajra like body and a face

full of radiance and where do uthink i met hin in karunamayi's retreat

.... i looked at himspellbound ...here i am a 60 year old , well past

my prime , turned on by a young handsome yoga teacher! you know what

guys, women do get attracted to spiritual persons ... because of

their 'aura' i am sure all his female students may make advances

onhim!! before u know it, he will be out of business ...facing law

suits well,i think we should overlook all these 'sex' scandals and

just focus on the 'teachings' and see if that makes us a more well

rounded person!!!i may be wrong ...my 3 cents WELL, believe me Osho

did pay gor his indiscretions ... i think he committed 'suicide ' and

when he left his communes were in disarray ... BUT, OSHO WAS STILL A

ORIGINAL THINKER ... i still like his views on many subjects ... let

me ask you this ... BILL CLINTON WAS INVOLVED IN SO MANY SCANDALS FROM

PAULA JONES TO MONICA LWEWINSKY ... still he was a great president ...

IN fact, i would necever vote for a presidenrt who looks asexual ... i

guess we want all gurus to be delbate monks no womder they end up

molesting young boys ... ........ i am sorry folks

/join

"Love itself

is the actual form of God."Sri RamanaIn "Letters from Sri

Ramanasramam" by Suri Nagamma

April 24, 2004

You have made the rounds Sri Adi!

Where have you been hiding? :-).

Love to all

Harsha

adi_shakthi16 [adi_shakthi16 ] Saturday,

April 24, 2004 8:38 PMSubject: