Guest guest Posted May 23, 2004 Report Share Posted May 23, 2004 Originally posted on Friday on HS and NDS and it still maybe in the system. Love, Harsha markwotter704 [markotter] Thursday, May 20, 2004 2:15 PM NondualitySalon [NDS] Re: "can the Self be known?" but... I like this concept as well, but for me it is yet a concept. I've heard many times the question of what is there in deep sleep and is it there during other states of mind? (not sure I said that well, but hopefully the question comes across...) I have looked to the extent of my ability to do so, but I, in my waking state, have no report to give on what is there in deep sleep. ***************************************** That is a key question Mark. If you can stay with this inquiry, you should do so. Yes, what is there during deep sleep that is present now? The Self, although it is beyond both the conscious and the unconscious, is not unconscious to It Self. Certainly, the Self cannot be known as an object as it is the very innermost subject. But to say that it is unknowable is a mistake. It Knows It Self fully without the medium of the mind. Its very nature, Self-Nature being that of Pure Existence/Awareness-Knowledge- Bliss. That is the very best expression through the mind. I am the Self, Self-Knowing. Sat-Chit-Ananda is my nature manifesting through the mind! Beyond that I am unknowable and unknown. Who can know Me, except by Knowing their own Self? Knowing the Self, one becomes the Self, so the questions of it being knowable or unknowable become completely irrelevant. >From the perspective of the mind, however, know that Self is both knowable and unknowable. The belief that the Self is unknowable invites one to sleep. The belief that it is knowable invites one to understand the nature of true wakefulness. When Buddha realized, the Buddha did not say, "I am now fully asleep, oh how good it feels!". The Buddha said "I am Awake". Know this difference clearly. Love to all Harsha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 23, 2004 Report Share Posted May 23, 2004 --- harshaimtm wrote: SNIP > When Buddha realized, the Buddha did not say, "I am > now fully > asleep, oh how good it feels!". > > The Buddha said "I am Awake". > > Know this difference clearly. > > Love to all > Harsha > So true. Warmest regards, michael Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 23, 2004 Report Share Posted May 23, 2004 , "harshaimtm" wrote: > Originally posted on Friday on HS and NDS and it still maybe in the > system. > > Love, > Harsha > > > markwotter704 [markotter@k...] > Thursday, May 20, 2004 2:15 PM > NondualitySalon > [NDS] Re: "can the Self be known?" but... > > I like this concept as well, but for me it is yet a concept. I've > heard many times the question of what is there in deep sleep and is > it there during other states of mind? (not sure I said that well, > but hopefully the question comes across...) I have looked to the > extent of my ability to do so, but I, in my waking state, have no > report to give on what is there in deep sleep. > ***************************************** > That is a key question Mark. If you can stay with this inquiry, you > should do so. > > Yes, what is there during deep sleep that is present now? > > The Self, although it is beyond both the conscious and the > unconscious, is not unconscious to It Self. > > Certainly, the Self cannot be known as an object as it is the very > innermost subject. But to say that it is unknowable is a mistake. > It Knows It Self fully without the medium of the mind. Its very > nature, Self-Nature being that of Pure Existence/Awareness- Knowledge- > Bliss. That is the very best expression through the mind. > > I am the Self, Self-Knowing. Sat-Chit-Ananda is my nature > manifesting through the mind! > > Beyond that I am unknowable and unknown. Who can know Me, except by > Knowing their own Self? Knowing the Self, one becomes the Self, so > the questions of it being knowable or unknowable become completely > irrelevant. > > From the perspective of the mind, however, know that Self is both > knowable and unknowable. > > The belief that the Self is unknowable invites one to sleep. The > belief that it is knowable invites one to understand the nature of > true wakefulness. > > When Buddha realized, the Buddha did not say, "I am now fully > asleep, oh how good it feels!". > > The Buddha said "I am Awake". > > Know this difference clearly. > > Love to all > Harsha Thank you for this, Harsha. It seems that there has been a lot of discussion along these lines on the various lists lately. What you have said above matches up with what I have been studying in the class I am taking. You have stated it very clearly and concisely. I see so much confusion on the lists which matches the confusion I had in my mind until I was lucky enough to find a very good clear teacher. Here's hoping that all seekers are able to find a way out of the confusion of mental concepts, which can sometimes seem to multiply rather than dissipate without a good teacher. Thanks again, Durga Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 25, 2004 Report Share Posted May 25, 2004 Hello Harsha, I just wanted to let you know that the text you wrote on 'Can the Self be known' is clearer than a mirror. It is nice to read and reflect upon it. It's like those rare days with no wind on a lac, its a great feeling for a swimmer to dive in a perfect sky. Thank you... Looking in a mirror with or without surrounding light will change the image reflected. Yet no matter, with or without light reflecting on the mirror, one will Be there. The part of the text talking of becoming awake 'with' the Self makes me think of a text posted 2 years ago on the spiritualalchemy list by Steve Kalec. It uses a different vocabulary, but the message is essentially the same. It is called the Hermetic Queen, To the joy of reading, Antoine When Sakti has entered the last and grossest Tattva (Earth) - that is solid matter - there is nothing futher for her to do. Her creative activity then ceases, and She rests. Arthur Avalon. If there is nothing further for her to do, why does she wake up again? Sue. She cannot awaken by herself. The Prince of consciousness must awaken our unconscious goddess as our sleeping beauty with his magic kiss. He must first conquer the shadows and fight through the dark and thorny paths leading to her dungeon. The (Involution) of spirit into matter is completed and now begins the (Evolution) of matter into spirit through the will of the operator or alchemist. The power of Shakti is there but it is fixed, hardened, cold, unconscious and chained to the dark walls of the deep dungeons of Saturnus (corporeality), the darkness of the corpus. It needs now to be volatilized as we say in alchemy, purified, quickened and reborn through the alchemical process of the regeneration. This is where the curve of becoming changes. The fallen angels gaze now towards the heaven they lost after experiencing the initiation of the "Nadir". We must lead them back to the "Throne" by listening to Hermes, " Separate the fire from the earth with great sagacity", says the Emerald Tablet. This is not an easy task because as Carl Jung says in his 'Mysterium Coniunctionis', "she tends to favour the body and everything bodily, sensuous, and emotional. She lies caught in the chains of Physis, and desires beyond physical necessity. She must be called back by the counsel of the spirit from her lostness in matter and the world." This should not imply that the body is an inferior or evil thing. It is the microcosm wherein are found all of the forces of creation that are needed to be mastered and used to assist in leading the Creator back to his throne. The Great Work is one of leading the "children of Israel ( unconscious contents of the psyche) out of bondage and into the promised land". Out of darkness and unconsciousness into light and consciousness. This is the stuff of fairy tale and mythologies, the works and adventures of the likes of Prometheus and Hercules. Perhaps we too might be sent on an Odyssey and conquer dragons and beasts that ensnare our most beautiful princess and Hermetic Queen. Steve Kalec Picture, Unio Mystica, by A. Andrew Gonzalez http://www.sublimatrix.com/index.html *********************** << That is a key question Mark. If you can stay with this inquiry, you should do so.Yes, what is there during deep sleep that is present now?The Self, although it is beyond both the conscious and theunconscious, is not unconscious to It Self.Certainly, the Self cannot be known as an object as it is the veryinnermost subject. But to say that it is unknowable is a mistake.It Knows It Self fully without the medium of the mind. Its verynature, Self-Nature being that of Pure Existence/Awareness-Knowledge-Bliss. That is the very best expression through the mind.I am the Self, Self-Knowing. Sat-Chit-Ananda is my naturemanifesting through the mind!Beyond that I am unknowable and unknown. Who can know Me, except byKnowing their own Self? Knowing the Self, one becomes the Self, sothe questions of it being knowable or unknowable become completelyirrelevant.From the perspective of the mind, however, know that Self is bothknowable and unknowable.The belief that the Self is unknowable invites one to sleep. Thebelief that it is knowable invites one to understand the nature oftrue wakefulness.When Buddha realized, the Buddha did not say, "I am now fullyasleep, oh how good it feels!".The Buddha said "I am Awake".Know this difference clearly.Love to allHarsha >> Attachment: (image/jpeg) uniomystica.jpg [not stored] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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