Guest guest Posted May 26, 2004 Report Share Posted May 26, 2004 The Agenda of Islam listed below is so full of inaccuracies it would take way too much time for me to go thru them all. As a Jew who grew up in the south, I don't see that Christians are all that into personal salvation. I was called Christ killer, told my people ate Christian babies, my dogs were shot on our lawn, I caught all kinds of hell in school, including from teachers, prayers were said in school in Jesus' name, in fact, we had religious assembly once a week, even tho to do so was unconstitutional (I didn't know it at the time). Pat Robertson and the Christian Coalition have said on record that God doesn't believe in Democracy, God believes in Theocracy. Just as there are many Christians who do not to the ultimate convert everyone and everyone else is going to hell idea, there are many Muslims who have no wish to foist their religion on everyone else. Yes there are Muslim fundamentalists . . . the Wahabbis (supported by the Saudis, by the way not by Saddam). Saddam, tho a brutal dictator, was also a secularist, which is why Osama hated him. We have destroyed a secular mid-east country and a Shite radical one like Iran will doubtless rise in it's place. How interesting it turned out Chalabi--the guy the U.S. has been supporting to the tune of almost half a million a month, was an Iranian agent. The U.S. did what Iran couldn't . . .ousted Saddam and set Iraq up for the radical Shites. The U.S. is Iran's dupe. How hilarious, if it weren't so tragic. Blaming all of Muslim society will get us no where. Think the radical muslims are more "dirty" than the radical Jews and Christians is pure blindness. BestPoet In a message dated 5/26/2004 1:47:14 PM Eastern Daylight Time, writes: > > > > There are 2 messages in this issue. > > Topics in this digest: > > 1. Re: Re: Fw: Why Does Islam Want to Blow Up Israel and the West? > "Michael Bindel" <michaelbindel > 2. texts online > alexandra_108 <alexandra_108 > > > ______________________ > ______________________ > > Message: 1 > Wed, 26 May 2004 17:34:00 +0200 > "Michael Bindel" <michaelbindel > Re: Re: Fw: Why Does Islam Want to Blow Up Israel and the West? > > Dear Erici > > he certainly does it not for "the jews"...... > lets hope and do our best to radiate LOVE AND UNDERSTANDING > I cannot do anything else as being centred in "myself" giving up to the SELF > and let GD do with me what GDS wants to.... > and this while radiating love and harmony > not easy but it has to be done.... > > all the best > > in love for all of us > > michael bindel > > > > > - > "scol202" <erici44 > <> > Wednesday, May 26, 2004 2:57 PM > Re: Fw: Why Does Islam Want to Blow Up Israel and > the West? > > > > Thank you for the article Michael. > > > > > > Now I understand why President Bush is killing as many Muslims as he > > can. If he doesn't, the Muslims will murder all the nice peaceful > > Jewish people and their babies just like Adolf Hitler. > > > > > > > > , "Michael Bindel" > > <michaelbindel@t...> wrote: > > > > > > - > > > Johnstembridge1@a... > > > Johnstembridge1@a... > > > Wednesday, May 26, 2004 12:19 AM > > > Fw: Why Does Islam Want to Blow Up Israel and the West? > > > > > > > > > The following is written by my friend Professor Moshe Sharon > > founder of the Chair on Islam at the Hebrew University Jerusalem. He > > is one of the foremost scholars on Islam in the world. It was > > Professor Sharon who arraigned my visit to the Knesset during the > > 100th anniversary celebration of the Hebrew language returning to the > > land. John > > > > > > THE AGENDA OF ISLAM - A WAR BETWEEN CIVILIZATIONS > > > > > > by Professor Moshe Sharon > > > > > > > > > There is no Fundamental Islam > > > > > > > > > "Fundamentalism" is a word that came from the heart of the > > Christian > > > religion. It means faith that goes by the word of the Bible. > > Fundamental Christianity, > > > or going with the Bible, does not mean going around and killing > > people. > > > There is no fundamental Islam. There is only Islam full stop. The > > question is how > > > the Koran is interpreted. > > > > > > > > > All of a sudden we see that the greatest interpreters of Islam are > > > politicians in the western world. They know better than all the > > speakers in the > > > mosques, all those who deliver terrible sermons against anything > > that is either > > > Christian or Jewish. These western politicians know that there is > > good Islam and > > > bad Islam. They know even how to differentiate between the two, > > except that > > > none of them know how to read a word of Arabic. > > > > > > > > > > > > The Language of Islam > > > > > > > > > You see, so much is covered by politically correct language that, > > in fact, > > > the truth has been lost. For example, when we speak about Islam in > > the west, we > > > try to use our own language and terminology. We speak about Islam > > in terms of > > > democracy and fundamentalism, in terms of parliamentarism and all > > kinds of > > > terms, which we take from our own dictionary. One of my professors > > and one of > > > the greatest orientalists in the world says that doing this is like > > a cricket > > > reporter describing a cricket game in baseball terms. We cannot use > > for one > > > culture or civilization the language of another. For Islam, you've > > got to use the > > > language of Islam. > > > > > > > > > > > > Driving Principles of Islam > > > > > > > > > Let me explain the principles that are driving the religion of > > Islam. Of > > > course, every Moslem has to acknowledge the fact that there is only > > one God. But > > > it's not enough to say that there is only one God. A Moslem has to > > acknowledge > > > the fact that there is one God and Mohammed is his prophet. These > > are the > > > fundamentals of the religion that without them, one cannot be a > > Moslem. But beyond > > > that, Islam is a civilization. It is a religion that gave first and > > foremost > > > a wide and unique legal system that engulfs the individual, society > > and > > > nations with rules of behaviour. If you are Moslem, you have to > > behave according to > > > the rules of Islam which are set down in the Koran and which are > > very > > > different than the teachings of the Bible. > > > > > > > > > > > > The Bible > > > > > > > > > Let me explain the difference. The Bible is the creation of the > > spirit of a > > > nation over a very, very long period, if we talk from the point of > > view of the > > > scholar, and let me remain scholarly. But there is one thing that > > is > > > important in the Bible. It leads to salvation. It leads to > > salvation in two ways. > > > > > > > > > In Judaism, it leads to national salvation - not just a nation that > > wants to > > > have a state, but a nation that wants to serve God. That's the idea > > behind the > > > Hebrew text of the Bible. > > > > > > > > > The New Testament that took the Hebrew Bible moves us toward > > personal > > > salvation. So we have got these two kinds of salvation, which, from > > time to time, > > > meet each other. > > > > > > > > > But the key word is salvation. Personal salvation means that each > > individual > > > is looked after by God, Himself, who leads a person through His > > word to > > > salvation. This is the idea in the Bible, whether we are talking > > about the Old or > > > the New Testament. All of the laws in the Bible, even to the > > minutest ones, are, > > > in fact directed toward this fact of salvation. > > > > > > > > > Secondly, there is another point in the Bible, which is highly > > important. > > > This is the idea that man was created in the image of God. > > Therefore, you don't > > > just walk around and obliterate the image of God. Many people, of > > course, used > > > Biblical rules and turned them upside down. History has seen a lot > > of > > > massacres in the name of God and in the name of Jesus. But as > > religions, both > > > Judaism and Christianity in their fundamentals speak about > > honouring the image of > > > God and the hope of salvation. These are the two basic fundamentals. > > > > > > > > > > > > The Essence of Islam > > > > > > > > > Now let's move to the essence of Islam. Islam was born with the > > idea that it > > > should rule the world. Let's look, then, at the difference between > > these > > > three religions. Judaism speaks about national salvation - namely > > that at the end > > > of the story, when the world becomes a better place, Israel will be > > in its > > > own land, ruled by its own king and serving God. Christianity > > speaks about the > > > idea that every single person in the world can be saved from his > > sins, while > > > Islam speaks about ruling the world. I can quote here in Arabic, > > but there is no > > > point in quoting Arabic, so let me quote a verse in English. "Allah > > sent > > > Mohammed with the true religion so that it should rule over all the > > religions." > > > > > > > > > The idea, then, is not that the whole world would become a Moslem > > world at > > > this time, but that the whole world would be subdued under the rule > > of Islam. > > > > > > > > > When the Islamic empire was established in 634 AD, within seven > > years - 640 - > > > the core of the empire was created. The rules that were taken from > > the Koran > > > and from the tradition that was ascribed to the prophet Mohammed, > > were > > > translated into a real legal system. Jews and Christians could live > > under Islam > > > provided they paid poll tax and accepted Islamic superiority. Of > > course, they had > > > to be humiliated. And Jews and Christians living under Islam are > > humiliated to > > > this very day. > > > > > > > > > > > > Mohammed Held That All the Biblical Prophets Were Moslems > > > > > > > > > Mohammed did accept the existence of all the Biblical prophets > > before him. > > > However he also said that all these prophets were Moslems. Abraham > > was a Moslem. > > > In fact, Adam himself was the first Moslem. Isaac and Jacob and > > David and > > > Solomon and Moses and Jesus were all Moslems, and all of them had > > writings > > > similar to the Koran. Therefore, world history is Islamic history > > because all the > > > heroes of history were Moslems. > > > > > > > > > Furthermore, Moslems accept the fact that each of these prophets > > brought with > > > him some kind of a revelation. Moses, brought the Taurat, which is > > the Torah, > > > and Jesus brought the Ingeel, which is the Evangelion or Gospel - > > namely the > > > New Testament. > > > > > > > > > > > > The Bible versus the Koran > > > > > > > > > Why then is the Bible not similar to the Koran? Mohammed explains > > that the > > > Jews and Christians forged their books. Had they not been changed > > and forged, > > > they would have been identical to the Koran. But because Christians > > and Jews do > > > have some truth, Islam concedes that they cannot be completely > > destroyed by > > > war [for now]. Nevertheless, the laws are very clear - Jews and > > Christians have > > > no rights whatsoever to independent existence. They can live under > > Islamic > > > rule provided they keep to the rules that Islam promulgates for > > them. > > > > > > > > > > > > Islamic Rule and Jihad > > > > > > > > > What happens if Jews and Christians don't want to live under the > > rules of > > > Islam? Then Islam has to fight them and this fighting is called > > Jihad. Jihad > > > means war against those people who don't want to accept the Islamic > > superior rule. > > > That's jihad. They may be Jews; they may be Christians; they may be > > > Polytheists. But since we don't have too many Polytheists left, at > > least not in the > > > Middle East - their war is against the Jews and Christians. > > > > > > > > > A few days ago, I received a pamphlet that was distributed in the > > world by > > > bin Laden. He calls for jihad against America as the leader of the > > Christian > > > world, not because America is the supporter of Israel, but because > > Americans are > > > desecrating Arabia with their filthy feet. There are Americans in > > Arabia where > > > no Christians should be. In this pamphlet there is not a single > > word about > > > Israel. Only that Americans are desecrating the home of the prophet. > > > > > > > > > > > > Two Houses > > > > > > > > > The Koran sees the world as divided into two - one part which has > > come under > > > Islamic rule and one part which is supposed to come under Islamic > > rule in the > > > future. There is a division of the world which is very clear. Every > > single > > > person who starts studying Islam knows it. The world is described > > as Dar al-Islam > > > (the house of Islam) - that's the place where Islam rules - and the > > other > > > part which is called Dar al-Harb - the house of war. Not the "house > > of > > > non-Muslims," but the "house of war." It is this house of war which > > has to be, at the > > > end of time, conquered. The world will continue to be in the house > > of war until > > > it comes under Islamic rule. This is the norm. Why? Because Allah > > says it's so > > > in the Koran. God has sent Mohammed with the true religion in order > > that the > > > truth will overcome all other religions. > > > > > > > > > > > > Islamic Law > > > > > > > > > Within the Islamic vision of this world, there are rules that > > govern the > > > lives of the Moslems themselves, and these rules are very strict. > > In fundamentals, > > > there are no differences between schools of law. > > > > > > > > > However, there are four streams of factions within Islam with > > differences > > > between them concerning the minutiae of the laws. All over the > > Islamic world, > > > countries have favored one or another of these schools of laws. The > > strictest > > > school of law is called Hanbali, mainly coming out of Saudi Arabia. > > There are no > > > games there, no playing around with the meanings of words. If the > > Koran speaks > > > about war, then it's war. > > > > > > > > > There are various perspectives in Islam with different > > interpretations over > > > the centuries. There were good people that were very enlightened in > > Islam that > > > tried to understand things differently. They even brought > > traditions from the > > > mouth of the prophet that women and children should not be killed > > in war. > > > > > > > > > These more liberal streams do exist, but there is one thing that is > > very > > > important for us to remember. The Hanbali school of law is > > extremely strict, and > > > today this is the school that is behind most of the terrorist > > powers. Even if > > > we talk about the existence of other schools of Islamic law, when > > we're talking > > > about fighting against the Jews, or fighting against the Christian > > world led > > > by America, it is the Hanbali school of law that is being followed. > > > > > > > > > > > > Islam and Territory > > > > > > > > > This civilization created one very important, fundamental rule > > about > > > territory. Any territory that comes under Islamic rule cannot be de- > > Islamized. Even if > > > at one time or another, the [non-Moslem] enemy takes over the > > territory that > > > was under Islamic rule, it is considered to be perpetually Islamic. > > > > > > > > > This is why whenever you hear about the Arab/Israeli conflict, you > > hear - > > > territory, territory, territory. There are other aspects to the > > conflict, but > > > territory is highly important. > > > > > > > > > The Christian civilization has not only been seen as a religious > > opponent, > > > but as a dam stopping Islam from achieving its final goal for which > > it was > > > created. > > > > > > > > > Islam was created to be the army of God, the army of Allah. Every > > single > > > Moslem is a soldier in this army. Every single Moslem that dies in > > fighting for > > > the spread of Islam is a shaheed (martyr) no matter how he dies, > > because - and > > > this is very important - this is an eternal war between the two > > civilizations. > > > It's not a war that stops. This war is there because it was created > > by Allah. > > > Islam must be the ruler. This is a war that will not end. > > > > > > > > > > > > Islam and Peace > > > > > > > > > Peace in Islam can exist only within the Islamic world; peace can > > only be > > > between Moslem and Moslem. > > > > > > > > > With the non-Moslem world or non-Moslem opponents, there can be > > only one > > > solution - a cease fire until Moslems can gain more power. It is an > > eternal war > > > until the end of days. Peace can only come if the Islamic side > > wins. The two > > > civilizations can only have periods of cease-fires. And this idea > > of cease-fire > > > is based on a very important historical precedent, which, > > incidentally, Yasser > > > Arafat referred to when he spoke in Johannesburg after he signed > > the Oslo > > > agreement with Israel. > > > > > > > > > Let me remind you that the document speaks of peace - you wouldn't > > believe > > > that you are reading! You would think that you were reading some > > science fiction > > > piece. I mean when you read it, you can't believe that this was > > signed by > > > Israelis who are actually acquainted with Islamic policies and > > civilization. > > > > > > > > > A few weeks after the Oslo agreement was signed, Arafat went to > > Johannesburg, > > > and in a mosque there he made a speech in which he apologized, > > saying, "Do > > > you think I signed something with the Jews which is contrary to the > > rules of > > > Islam?" (I have obtained a copy of Arafat's recorded speech so I > > heard it from > > > his own mouth.) Arafat continued, "That's not so. I'm doing exactly > > what the > > > prophet Mohammed did." > > > > > > > > > Whatever the prophet is supposed have done becomes a precedent. > > What Arafat > > > was saying was, "Remember the story of Hodaybiya." The prophet had > > made an > > > agreement there with the tribe of Kuraish for 10 years. But then he > > trained 10,000 > > > soldiers and within two years marched on their city of Mecca. He, > > of course, > > > found some kind of pretext. > > > > > > > > > Thus, in Islamic jurisdiction, it became a legal precedent which > > states that > > > you are only allowed to make peace for a maximum of 10 years. > > Secondly, at the > > > first instance that you are able, you must renew the jihad [thus > > breaking the > > > "peace" agreement]. > > > > > > > > > In Israel, it has taken over 50 years in this country for our > > people to > > > understand that they cannot speak about [permanent] peace with > > Moslems. It will > > > take another 50 years for the western world to understand that they > > have got a > > > state of war with the Islamic civilization that is virile and > > strong. This > > > should be understood: When we talk about war and peace, we are not > > talking in > > > Belgium, French, English, or German terms. We are talking about war > > and peace in > > > Islamic terms. > > > > > > > > > > > > Cease-fire as a Tactical Choice > > > > > > > > > What makes Islam accept cease-fire? Only one thing - when the enemy > > is too > > > strong. It is a tactical choice. > > > > > > > > > Sometimes, he may have to agree to a cease-fire in the most > > humiliating > > > conditions. It's allowed because Mohammed accepted a cease-fire > > under humiliating > > > conditions. That's what Arafat said to them in Johannesburg. When > > western > > > policy makers hear these things, they answer, "What are you talking > > about? You are > > > in the Middle Ages. You don't understand the mechanisms of > > politics." > > > > > > > > > Which mechanisms of politics? There are no mechanisms of politics > > where power > > > is. And I want to tell you one thing - we haven't seen the end of > > it, because > > > the minute a radical Moslem power has atomic, chemical or > > biological weapons, > > > they will use it. I have no doubt about that. > > > > > > > > > Now, since we face war and we know that we cannot get more than an > > > impermanent cease-fire, one has to ask himself what is the major > > component of an > > > Israeli/Arab cease-fire. It is that the Islamic side is weak and > > your side is strong. > > > The relations between Israel and the Arab world in the last 50 > > years since > > > the establishment of our State has been based only on this idea, > > the deterrent > > > power. > > > > > > > > > > > > Wherever You Have Islam, You Will Have War > > > > > > > > > The reason that we have what we have in Yugoslavia and other places > > is > > > because Islam succeeded into entering these countries. Wherever you > > have Islam, you > > > will have war. It grows out of the attitude of Islamic civilization. > > > > > > > > > What are the poor people in the Philippines being killed for? > > What's > > > happening between Pakistan and India? > > > > > > > > > > > > Islamic Infiltration > > > > > > > > > Furthermore, there is another fact that must be remembered. The > > Islamic world > > > has not only the attitude of open war, but there's also war by > > infiltration. > > > > > > > > > One of the things which the western world is not paying enough > > attention to > > > is the tremendous growth of Islamic power in the western world. > > What happened > > > in America and the Twin Towers is not something that came from the > > outside. And > > > if America doesn't wake up, one day the Americans will find > > themselves in a > > > chemical war and most likely in an atomic war - inside the U.S. > > > > > > > > > > > > End of Days > > > > > > > > > It is highly important to understand how a civilization sees the > > end of days. > > > In Christianity and in Judaism, we know exactly what is the vision > > of the end > > > of days. > > > > > > > > > In Judaism, it is going to be as in Isaiah - peace between nations, > > not just > > > one nation, but between all nations. People will not have any more > > need for > > > weapons and nature will be changed - a beautiful end of days and > > the kingdom of > > > God on earth. > > > > > > > > > Christianity goes as far as Revelation to see a day that Satan > > himself is > > > obliterated. There are no more powers of evil. That's the vision. > > > > > > > > > I'm speaking now as a historian. I try to understand how Islam sees > > the end > > > of days. In the end of days, Islam sees a world that is totally > > Moslem, > > > completely Moslem under the rule of Islam. Complete and final > > victory. > > > > > > > > > Christians will not exist, because according to many Islamic > > traditions, the > > > Moslems who are in hell will have to be replaced by somebody and > > they'll be > > > replaced by the Christians. > > > > > > > > > The Jews will no longer exist, because before the coming of the end > > of days, > > > there is going to be a war against the Jews where all Jews should > > be killed. > > > I'm quoting now from the heart of Islamic tradition, from the books > > that are > > > read by every child in school. The Jews will all be killed. They'll > > be running > > > away and they'll be hiding behind trees and rocks, and on that day > > Allah will > > > give mouths to the rocks and trees and they will say, "Oh Moslem > > come here, > > > there is a Jew behind me, kill him." Without this, the end of days > > cannot come. > > > This is a fundamental of Islam. > > > > > > > > > > > > Is There a Possibility to End This Dance of War? > > > > > > > > > The question which we in Israel are asking ourselves is what will > > happen to > > > our country? Is there a possibility to end this dance of war? > > > > > > > > > The answer is, "No. Not in the foreseeable future." What we can do > > is reach a > > > situation where for a few years we may have relative quiet. > > > > > > > > > But for Islam, the establishment of the state of Israel was a > > reverse of > > > Islamic history. First, Islamic territory was taken away from Islam > > by Jews. You > > > know by now that this can never be accepted, not even one meter. So > > everyone > > > who thinks Tel Aviv is safe is making a grave mistake. Territory, > > which at one > > > time was dominated by Islamic rule, now has become non-Moslem. Non- > > Moslems are > > > independent of Islamic rule; Jews have created their own > > independent state. It > > > is anathema. > > > > > > > > > And (this is the worst) Israel, a non-Moslem state, is ruling over > > Moslems. > > > It is unthinkable that non-Moslems should rule over Moslems. > > > > > > > > > I believe that Western civilization should hold together and > > support each > > > other. Whether this will happen or not, I don't know. Israel finds > > itself on the > > > front lines of this war. It needs the help of its sister > > civilization. It > > > needs the help of America and Europe. It needs the help of the > > Christian world. > > > One thing I am sure about, this help can be given by individual > > Christians who > > > see this as the road to salvation. > > > > > > > > > > > > /join > > > > > > > > > > > > "Love itself is the actual form of God." > > > > Sri Ramana > > > > In "Letters from Sri Ramanasramam" by Suri Nagamma > > Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ______________________ > ______________________ > > Message: 2 > Wed, 26 May 2004 09:18:46 -0700 (PDT) > alexandra_108 <alexandra_108 > texts online > > Does someone know where to find these texts online in English translation?: > > SHIVA SUTRAS > SPANDA KARIKAS > PRATYABHIJNAHRDAYAM > KUNDALINI STAVAHA > VIJNANA BHAIRAVA > > Alexandra > > > > > Friends. Fun. Try the all-new Messenger > > [This message contained attachments] > > > > ______________________ > ______________________ > > > /join > > > > > > "Love itself is the actual form of God." > > Sri Ramana > > In "Letters from Sri Ramanasramam" by Suri Nagamma > ------ > Links > > > > > --------------------------- > ------------ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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