Guest guest Posted July 2, 2004 Report Share Posted July 2, 2004 Namaste, P43) His disciples said to him, "Who are You, that You should say these things to us?" <Jesus said to them,> "You do not realize who I am from what I say to you, but you have become like the Jews, for they (either) love the tree and hate its fruit or love the fruit and hate the tree." Purport:O'Clery. This means they aren't satisfied with him and haven't made the choice to listen to his teaching completely. They are picking and choosing and not understanding the whole is One. They haven't recognized who Jesus really is and what he is to become. The Jews, in this case are no doubt the Sadducee Priests and their political descendents, who had persecuted the early Essenic groups, for centuries, that became known as Messianics or in Greek, Christians....ONS...Tony. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 2, 2004 Report Share Posted July 2, 2004 Tony OClery [aoclery ] Friday, July 02, 2004 6:53 PMTo: Subject: Sayings of Jesus #43---Gospel of Thomas. Namaste,P43) His disciples said to him, "Who are You, that You should saythese things to us?"<Jesus said to them,> "You do not realize who I am from whatI say to you, but you have become like the Jews, for they(either) love the tree and hate its fruit or love the fruit andhate the tree." ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ funny jc would say that, being himself a poor jewish boy.... (besides the saying being silly) ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Purport:O'Clery.This means they aren't satisfied with him and haven't made the choice to listen to his teaching completely. They are picking and choosing and not understanding the whole is One. They haven't recognized who Jesus really is and what he is to become. The Jews, in this case are no doubt the Sadducee Priests and their political descendents, who had persecuted the early Essenic groups, for centuries, that became known as Messianics or in Greek, Christians....ONS...Tony. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ yosy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 3, 2004 Report Share Posted July 3, 2004 , "Yosy Flug" <yosyflug@0...> wrote: > > > > Tony OClery [aoclery] > Friday, July 02, 2004 6:53 PM > > Sayings of Jesus #43---Gospel of Thomas. > > > Namaste, > > P43) His disciples said to him, "Who are You, that You should say > these things to us?" > <Jesus said to them,> "You do not realize who I am from what > I say to you, but you have become like the Jews, for they > (either) love the tree and hate its fruit or love the fruit and > hate the tree." > > > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > funny jc would say that, being himself a poor jewish boy.... > (besides the saying being silly) > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Namaste, The reason that I explained that as Sadducees etc is because the word 'Jews', doesn't mean the same thing today as it did in the time of Jesus. Today there are all kinds of Jews.Zionist, non Zionist, Orthodox, Liberal etc etc. According to the Dead Sea Scrolls the 'Wicked Priests', were already persecuting the Essenes and had been for generations. The Essenes, out of which came Christianity and Jesus were not strictly Jewish as such. They had their own temples and used a different calendar from the Temple Jews. Also prior to this, Palestine had been divided into two, with the Kingdom of Israel in the North and Judea in the South. Israelites and Judahites. Jesus was tried by the Sadducees as was his brother James, they were the Temple Priests and collaborated with the Romans. The Pharisees were another group, out of which grew Judaism. The largest group were the Pharisees, then the Sadducees and then the Essenes, who were the fastest growing group at the time. So I pointed out that the Jews that Jesus was referring to were no doubt the Sadducees, who had been persecuting all the other Hebrew and part Hebrew groups in the region for years. They weren't into prophets and prophecy etc, only used the Torah. It was heresy to be into prophecy, astrology etc, and many people were persecuted by the Sadducees. These are historical facts. The idea of Jew as we know it today only arose in the first century C.E.and after the destruction of the temple and the Sadducees by the Romans in Jerusalem. What I was saying was one cannot confuse Jews of two thousand years ago and Jews of today. I'm not even sure myself what a Jew is today.....ONS....Tony. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 4, 2004 Report Share Posted July 4, 2004 Tony OClery [aoclery ] Saturday, July 03, 2004 6:19 PMTo: Subject: Re: Sayings of Jesus #43---Gospel of Thomas. , "Yosy Flug" <yosyflug@0...> wrote:> > > > Tony OClery [aoclery] > Friday, July 02, 2004 6:53 PM> To: > Sayings of Jesus #43---Gospel of Thomas.> > > Namaste,> > P43) His disciples said to him, "Who are You, that You should say> these things to us?"> <Jesus said to them,> "You do not realize who I am from what> I say to you, but you have become like the Jews, for they> (either) love the tree and hate its fruit or love the fruit and> hate the tree." > > > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^> funny jc would say that, being himself a poor jewish boy....> (besides the saying being silly)> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^Namaste,The reason that I explained that as Sadducees etc is because theword 'Jews', doesn't mean the same thing today as it did in the timeof Jesus. Today there are all kinds of Jews.Zionist, non Zionist,Orthodox, Liberal etc etc. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ lol there is only one nation - the nation of humanity. there is anly one true language - the language of the heart there is only one religion - religion of love and god almighty is one and only - and he is omnipresent ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ According to the Dead Sea Scrolls the 'Wicked Priests', were alreadypersecuting the Essenes and had been for generations. The Essenes,out of which came Christianity and Jesus were not strictly Jewish assuch. They had their own temples and used a different calendar fromthe Temple Jews. Also prior to this, Palestine had been divided intotwo, with the Kingdom of Israel in the North and Judea in the South.Israelites and Judahites.Jesus was tried by the Sadducees as was his brother James, they werethe Temple Priests and collaborated with the Romans. The Phariseeswere another group, out of which grew Judaism.The largest group were the Pharisees, then the Sadducees and thenthe Essenes, who were the fastest growing group at the time.So I pointed out that the Jews that Jesus was referring to were nodoubt the Sadducees, who had been persecuting all the other Hebrewand part Hebrew groups in the region for years. They weren't intoprophets and prophecy etc, only used the Torah. It was heresy to beinto prophecy, astrology etc, and many people were persecuted by theSadducees. These are historical facts.The idea of Jew as we know it today only arose in the first centuryC.E.and after the destruction of the temple and the Sadducees by theRomans in Jerusalem.What I was saying was one cannot confuse Jews of two thousand yearsago and Jews of today. I'm not even sure myself what a Jew istoday.....ONS....Tony. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ you know it is eventually bunch of bullshit, don't you, tony? information can (and is - look around!) manipulated and 'history' distorted, according to agendas. but such things, apparently sowing discord and hate, are an insult to the living eternal spirit of the poor jewish boy, known to his friends as issa, whose "teachings" you try to "purport". the family of jesus, the decendants of the twelve tribes of israel, adherents of the abrahamic tradition, (commonly reffered to aso as "jews") form - by their own definition - one family united across time and space, within the family of mankind. unified regardless the apperance, time, place or ideology - the state of israel is a living proof. yosy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 4, 2004 Report Share Posted July 4, 2004 Dear Jossy dear "knowing" both if you and respecting both of you if have to tell you that as Viorica Jossy did answer you Tony with love Being a born "jew" and having inherited a neverending love for The One and Only which nurtures all my being I am very respectfull to the "stubborness" of "the jewish people" who have carried the light of the believe for the one and only GD thru ages. Tony like you I have been an eternal "rebel" without avail. "Nothing changed" - as far as I can see since I am on earth again. But trying to live THE LOVE for the Almighty in every moment helped me. And all of you Viorica Tony Jossy and all the "rest" did help me.... So please let us work together by not dividing but by reminding all of us that there is only GD and nothing else..... In deep gratitude to all of you Michael "the eternal neveraging child" LOL in Sri Ramana Maharshi >"Yosy Flug" <yosyflug (AT) 012 (DOT) net.il> > ><> >RE: Re: Sayings of Jesus #43---Gospel of Thomas. >Sun, 4 Jul 2004 06:42:29 +0200 > > > >-----Original Message----- >Tony OClery [aoclery ] >Sent: Saturday, July 03, 2004 6:19 PM > > Re: Sayings of Jesus #43---Gospel of Thomas. > > >, "Yosy Flug" <yosyflug@0...> >wrote: > > > > > > > > Tony OClery [aoclery] > > Friday, July 02, 2004 6:53 PM > > > > Subject: Sayings of Jesus #43---Gospel of Thomas. > > > > > > Namaste, > > > > P43) His disciples said to him, "Who are You, that You should say > > these things to us?" > > <Jesus said to them,> "You do not realize who I am from what > > I say to you, but you have become like the Jews, for they > > (either) love the tree and hate its fruit or love the fruit and > > hate the tree." > > > > > > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > > funny jc would say that, being himself a poor jewish boy.... > > (besides the saying being silly) > > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ >Namaste, >The reason that I explained that as Sadducees etc is because the >word 'Jews', doesn't mean the same thing today as it did in the time >of Jesus. Today there are all kinds of Jews.Zionist, non Zionist, >Orthodox, Liberal etc etc. > >^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ >lol > >there is only one nation - the nation of humanity. >there is anly one true language - the language of the heart >there is only one religion - religion of love >and god almighty is one and only - and he is omnipresent > >^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > > >According to the Dead Sea Scrolls the 'Wicked Priests', were already >persecuting the Essenes and had been for generations. The Essenes, >out of which came Christianity and Jesus were not strictly Jewish as >such. They had their own temples and used a different calendar from >the Temple Jews. Also prior to this, Palestine had been divided into >two, with the Kingdom of Israel in the North and Judea in the South. >Israelites and Judahites. >Jesus was tried by the Sadducees as was his brother James, they were >the Temple Priests and collaborated with the Romans. The Pharisees >were another group, out of which grew Judaism. >The largest group were the Pharisees, then the Sadducees and then >the Essenes, who were the fastest growing group at the time. > >So I pointed out that the Jews that Jesus was referring to were no >doubt the Sadducees, who had been persecuting all the other Hebrew >and part Hebrew groups in the region for years. They weren't into >prophets and prophecy etc, only used the Torah. It was heresy to be >into prophecy, astrology etc, and many people were persecuted by the >Sadducees. These are historical facts. >The idea of Jew as we know it today only arose in the first century >C.E.and after the destruction of the temple and the Sadducees by the >Romans in Jerusalem. > >What I was saying was one cannot confuse Jews of two thousand years >ago and Jews of today. I'm not even sure myself what a Jew is >today.....ONS....Tony. > > > > > > >^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > you know it is eventually bunch of bullshit, don't you, tony? >information can (and is - look around!) manipulated and 'history' >distorted, according to agendas. but such things, apparently sowing >discord and hate, are an insult to the living eternal spirit of the poor >jewish boy, known to his friends as issa, whose "teachings" you try to >"purport". > > >the family of jesus, the decendants of the twelve tribes of israel, >adherents of the abrahamic tradition, (commonly reffered to aso as >"jews") form - by their own definition - one family united across time >and space, within the family of mankind. unified regardless the >apperance, time, place or ideology - the state of israel is a living >proof. > >yosy > Protect your PC - Click here for McAfee.com VirusScan Online Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 4, 2004 Report Share Posted July 4, 2004 , "Yosy Flug" <yosyflu> > > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > you know it is eventually bunch of bullshit, don't you, tony? > information can (and is - look around!) manipulated and 'history' > distorted, according to agendas. but such things, apparently sowing > discord and hate, are an insult to the living eternal spirit of the poor > jewish boy, known to his friends as issa, whose "teachings" you try to > "purport". > > > the family of jesus, the decendants of the twelve tribes of israel, > adherents of the abrahamic tradition, (commonly reffered to aso as > "jews") form - by their own definition - one family united across time > and space, within the family of mankind. unified regardless the > apperance, time, place or ideology - the state of israel is a living > proof. > > yosy Namaste Y, That last little bit is a bit strange to me. If you are talking of a religion, then I can comprehend. However if you are talking about the Teaching Myth known as the Bible that is another matter. As you know Ezra rewrote the whole lot except for Genesis, about 500 or600 BCE, then the Hasmoneans rewrote gobs of it about 150 BCE according to Spinoza. This is the danger of taking myth to be history, some part in fact may be but it is a tightrope walk. The only part of the Dead Sea Scrolls I dared quote was part of a narrative, or diary, away from the myths. AS for the State of Israel, well that divides Jews more than anything else. I suggest you read; Http://www.normanfinkelstein.com or Naom Chomsky for a background, they are renowned academics known for blunt truths..........ONS..Tony. P.S. However so we don't get into a long argument. My position is that I am Anti-Zionist, in its present form, and do not approve of Israel's behaviour or system of immigration, or definition of 'Jew'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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