Guest guest Posted August 9, 2004 Report Share Posted August 9, 2004 Hi Zenbob: I never answered your post a few posts ago, about where I am from. I live on the East Coast, in PA, a little less than an hour outside of Philadelphia. I noted Wim just mentioned that his son married a Pennsylvanian, and Sam, you were very close to me when you were in PA Dutch country. Are you still in Maryland, or back in the Dutch ? Love, Joyce PS Congrats, Wim...may they know a lifetime of love Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 9, 2004 Report Share Posted August 9, 2004 , "Lady Joyce" <shaantih@c...> wrote: > Hi Zenbob: > > I never answered your post a few posts ago, > about where I am from. I live on the East Coast, > in PA, a little less than an hour outside of Philadelphia. > I noted Wim just mentioned that his son married a > Pennsylvanian, and Sam, you were very close to me > when you were in PA Dutch country. Are you still > in Maryland, or back in the Dutch ? > > Love, > > Joyce Namaste, I worked in Pennsylvania many years ago, and I thought the Pennsylvania Dutch were actually Deutch or Germans........ONS..Tony. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 9, 2004 Report Share Posted August 9, 2004 > > > > I never answered your post a few posts ago, > > about where I am from. I live on the East Coast, > > in PA, a little less than an hour outside of Philadelphia. > > I noted Wim just mentioned that his son married a > > Pennsylvanian, and Sam, you were very close to me > > when you were in PA Dutch country. Are you still > > in Maryland, or back in the Dutch ? > > > > Love, > > > > Joyce > > Namaste, > > I worked in Pennsylvania many years ago, and I thought the > Pennsylvania Dutch were actually Deutch or Germans........ONS..Tony. To be honest, Tony, I really do not know :-) Love, Joyce Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 9, 2004 Report Share Posted August 9, 2004 If it is of interest: http://www.kerchner.com/padutch.htm Lady Joyce <shaantih wrote: > > > > I never answered your post a few posts ago, > > about where I am from. I live on the East Coast, > > in PA, a little less than an hour outside of Philadelphia. > > I noted Wim just mentioned that his son married a > > Pennsylvanian, and Sam, you were very close to me > > when you were in PA Dutch country. Are you still > > in Maryland, or back in the Dutch ? > > > > Love, > > > > Joyce > > Namaste, > > I worked in Pennsylvania many years ago, and I thought the > Pennsylvania Dutch were actually Deutch or Germans........ONS..Tony. To be honest, Tony, I really do not know :-) Love, Joyce /join "Love itself is the actual form of God." Sri Ramana In "Letters from Sri Ramanasramam" by Suri Nagamma Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 9, 2004 Report Share Posted August 9, 2004 Hey Joyce, Tony, Wim: Yes, the Penn Dutch are all solid German stock...since Germans are "Deutsch" the locals called the new immigrants "Dutch" even though they had never been to Holland, the Netherlands or even seen a Van Gogh. They even brought their solid German Cattle with them...those Holsteins, Red Pied Saxons, Friesian, etc., all grandly gangly as milch cows, and often appearing as if their paint jobs had not really been completed, a sort of oddly unteutonic sort of trait, all things considered. Later Germans would attempt to rebreed various Euro-Germanic breeds with the goal of "bringing back the Auroch" which somehow pleased the heck out of Hitler and many of the Nazis who believed in eugenics and racial superiority...this always amuses me...if the Germans had succeeded in bringing back this now extinct race of semi-ox-semi-zebu-semi-bison, how would this have proved any of the characteristics of the German "Superior Master Race???" They eat ancient cattle, they breed ancient cattle, therefore they must be the Master Race? LOL Heck, that would make Australian Crocodile breeders the most Superior Race of all...as those things are truly prehistoric. In any event the fanatical goal if achieving the perfect Hamburger and milk maker has not faded from the German Gedanken-Experiment, and so to this day, in America (Pennsylvania and Wisconsin) and in Germany, they are crossing Angus with German breeds, Angus with German, Polish and French breeds, all with the eye to leaner, more flavorful meat (normally a contradictory achievement) and with cows able to produce prodigious amounts of milk so that Ben & Jerry's can get the best cream in volume in Vermont. This madness will only end once the 4,500 pound steer and 60 gallon a day milk cow is realized...but knowing the Germans... It will still look like someone forgot to finish the paint job... Peace, Zenbob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 10, 2004 Report Share Posted August 10, 2004 Hi Lady Joyce.. Me back in Holland. Puttering along. It was a great visit. I'm usually kind of family shy, but this trip knocked out whatever old judgments, misconceptions and general misanthropy that were still rattling around in my nearly empty brain cavity. It was truly good to be with everybody .... a love bath. Not to mention the food. Next time we make a longer trip and come visit you also. Love, Sam http://home.hccnet.nl/sam.pas/transfer/Covered_bridge.jpg - Lady Joyce Monday, August 09, 2004 11:33 PM Hey Zenbob... Hi Zenbob: I never answered your post a few posts ago, about where I am from. I live on the East Coast, in PA, a little less than an hour outside of Philadelphia. I noted Wim just mentioned that his son married a Pennsylvanian, and Sam, you were very close to me when you were in PA Dutch country. Are you still in Maryland, or back in the Dutch ? Love, Joyce PS Congrats, Wim...may they know a lifetime of love /join "Love itself is the actual form of God." Sri Ramana In "Letters from Sri Ramanasramam" by Suri Nagamma / b.. c.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 10, 2004 Report Share Posted August 10, 2004 zen2wrk wrote: Hey Joyce, Tony, Wim: Yes, the Penn Dutch are all solid German stock...since Germans are "Deutsch" the locals called the new immigrants "Dutch" even though they had never been to Holland, the Netherlands or even seen a Van Gogh. W# ) You know of course that German is a Dutch dialect... Seen the movie 'My Big Fat Wedding'? There was one big fat problem with that movie, there was this old man who kept saying that everything originated in Greece. My father would not have agreed, he was convinced that everything originated in Holland, even the clay that man is made from... Everybody knows that God made man and the Dutch made Holland... ... First!!! They had to... for there to be enough clay for God to play with. Anyway now you understand that Germans are really Dutch... and no matter what bonafide research you read elsewhere, that is the meaning behind the Dutch in Pennsylvania Wim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 10, 2004 Report Share Posted August 10, 2004 In a message dated 8/10/2004 10:59:21 AM Pacific Daylight Time, wim_borsboom writes: Anyway now you understand that Germans are really Dutch... and no matter what bonafide research you read elsewhere, that is the meaning behind the Dutch in Pennsylvania Wim I am as always most delighted with this. One part of my family does not use the Korbel or Kirbo names that are nominally German, but uses the Koob naming which is very likely much more Dutch in origin. When I attempted to research this, the histories, families and place names all became terribly twisted and entertwined! It appears as if Germans had moved to Holland at one point, the Dutch moved to the German side, later returned to Holland due to some political squabble in the 16th century, only to be drawn back to Germany before Bismarck, then angrily back to Holland after the German Unification... Gross Goot! THere will never be an unraveling, and perhaps it's best that there is not. I have a friend from South Africa who is Dutch, except that when I press him he admits that some of his Dutch ancestry is Flemish from Belgium and that perhaps some is really German, but that neither family readily admits this, and he tells me that some of the Dutch names are really old German, and that some of the "German names" are really modified Dutch. The Dutch are not known as gret wine makers (Brandy yes, oddly) in Europe, but in South Africa, they have vines that go back 300+ years brought over from Europe, and South African wines are now competing with some of the best worldwide, now that, thank God apartheid is over and something akin to a unified nation is emerging. My friend then demonstrates his command of both XHuasa and the language of the Bushmen, in which he is fluent, both languages having those incredible clicks of the tongue betwixt the syllables. He firmly believes that most Europeans emerged from a combination of African and indo-european, perhaps even Celtic stock, and that his return via his Dutch family to South Africa, and his marriage to an English/Irish lady who has adopted some black and white children makes for a perfectly unified circle of heritage. In any event, I find a great kinship to all people so long as they also like people. Funny about that, isn't it??? Peace, Namaste Zenbob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 11, 2004 Report Share Posted August 11, 2004 , zen2wrk@a... wrote: > > I have a friend from South Africa who is Dutch, except that when I press him > he admits that some of his Dutch ancestry is Flemish from Belgium and that > perhaps some is really German, but that neither family readily admits this, and > he tells me that some of the Dutch names are really old German, and that some > of the "German names" are really modified Dutch. The Dutch are not known as > gret wine makers (Brandy yes, oddly) in Europe, but in South Africa, they > have vines that go back 300+ years brought over from Europe, and South African > wines are now competing with some of the best worldwide, now that, thank God > apartheid is over and something akin to a unified nation is emerging. My > friend then demonstrates his command of both XHuasa and the language of the > Bushmen, in which he is fluent, both languages having those incredible clicks of > the tongue betwixt the syllables. Namaste, My Mother-in-Law is from Capetown, speaks Afrikaans as well as English. Unfortunatley she had to move to England when the National Party introduced Apartheid, 1948-1950, her family, which is 'Cape- Coloured' lost their status and land and houses etc. However in the Province, Paarl is a great place for wine. The wine was not introduced just by the Dutch per se, but also by the French Hugeneots, of whom there are many descendents in South Africa. The Ko-San Bushman, are probably one of the most earliest representatives of mankind, but they are most alert. " Somewhere there is a dream, dreaming us.",,Ko-San saying reported by the archeaologist----Leakey. The Xhosa and the San have intermarried also have the Zulus. Up until a few hundred years ago, only the Ko-San and Hottentots occupied South Africa, then the Bantu moved down. This is why the clicks of the Bushmen are in the Bantu language. I actually found some cognitives and actual words and expressions, that were exactly the same in Ko-San language and Polynesian.............Dutch are Germanic as are the English but don't tell either of them that..hahahahaah..........ONS...Tony. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 11, 2004 Report Share Posted August 11, 2004 Tony wrote: > Dutch are Germanic as are the English > but don't tell either of them that.. :-) The words Germanic as well as germane, derive from 'germ' originally meaning sprout in Latin... hence germinate. It is usually understood that germanic people are those who acknowledge that they are akin. Being germanic originally expressed kinship, brotherhood. (Well, who of us humans is not akin, directly or indirectly, to anyone else) Germ, germane, germ, grain, kernel, core, churning, corn (koren, korn) all derive via the Latin 'granum' from the Aryan/Sanskrit root GAR. At about the same time as Celts/Gauls where identified by the Romans they named a collection of tribes beyond the Rhine river Germani. Who knows, maybe germanic people were originally grain growers and thus named that way ? :-) When it comes down to it of course all of us are akin, all coming from the same substance... Wim Tony OClery <aoclery wrote: , zen2wrk@a... wrote: > > I have a friend from South Africa who is Dutch, except that when I press him > he admits that some of his Dutch ancestry is Flemish from Belgium and that > perhaps some is really German, but that neither family readily admits this, and > he tells me that some of the Dutch names are really old German, and that some > of the "German names" are really modified Dutch. The Dutch are not known as > gret wine makers (Brandy yes, oddly) in Europe, but in South Africa, they > have vines that go back 300+ years brought over from Europe, and South African > wines are now competing with some of the best worldwide, now that, thank God > apartheid is over and something akin to a unified nation is emerging. My > friend then demonstrates his command of both XHuasa and the language of the > Bushmen, in which he is fluent, both languages having those incredible clicks of > the tongue betwixt the syllables. Namaste, My Mother-in-Law is from Capetown, speaks Afrikaans as well as English. Unfortunatley she had to move to England when the National Party introduced Apartheid, 1948-1950, her family, which is 'Cape- Coloured' lost their status and land and houses etc. However in the Province, Paarl is a great place for wine. The wine was not introduced just by the Dutch per se, but also by the French Hugeneots, of whom there are many descendents in South Africa. The Ko-San Bushman, are probably one of the most earliest representatives of mankind, but they are most alert. " Somewhere there is a dream, dreaming us.",,Ko-San saying reported by the archeaologist----Leakey. The Xhosa and the San have intermarried also have the Zulus. Up until a few hundred years ago, only the Ko-San and Hottentots occupied South Africa, then the Bantu moved down. This is why the clicks of the Bushmen are in the Bantu language. I actually found some cognitives and actual words and expressions, that were exactly the same in Ko-San language and Polynesian.............hahahahaah..........ONS...Tony. /join "Love itself is the actual form of God." Sri Ramana In "Letters from Sri Ramanasramam" by Suri Nagamma Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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