answer to Zenbob

[Guest guest]

Dear Zenbob

 

thank you for your answer.

Please do me a favour a read my original message again - slowly and with

an open heart.

It is written out of my "soul", it shows those who want to understand me

who i am really.

Yes - you are right. michael is very very sensitive - it was always like

this and is not connected only to the "jewish question".

It is connected with a deep feeling when injustice is done a deep feeling

when danger arrives. The last one might be a heritage from the "jewish history".

 

As i always look in myself for somewthing "wrong" i discovered after reading

your mail, that i was very fond of you (without knowing you at all) and

was disappointed and even hurt, when you finally agreed with something tony

posted.

And i am connected of course with tony too - but some traits he radiates

i doubt if they are constructive.

So this mail of yours ignited my action to finally write to the list.

 

Regarding all the scientific or not scientific facts or not facts you and

Tony stated

sorry dear one

for me this is real old stuff since decades

which one time has been important to me because i wanted to find out who

am i what it means to be jewish and please something you not easily can

imagine:

to find a reason why i have survived when so many jewish children have been

murdered because i blamed myself for not even being worth to get murdered

 

again like stated in my letter to the group

 

i am grateful being born this time in this terrible circumstance feeling

it a grace because it showed me how deep and undestroyable my love for GD

is

 

i do not need any proof anymore that i deserve to live like nobody needs

it

 

i do not care if Jeshu existed or not because BHAKTI is

and michael life is dedicated to BHAKTI

i do not care who the "jews" are really

but i in my being am a proff that they exist and for me being a jew (and

if i am the only one on earth like this i do not care!) means being a

"testimony" of GD

 

and sorry

 

GD is only ONEANDONLY

 

and not only for all humans but for everything existing because everything

is GD

 

what i do not really understand

 

who need discussing all this "themes" when being a member of a nondual group

 

i just want to share my love with everybody in this group am ready for "advise"

for any theme which is important

 

but i have to be quicker to ring the bell when i the little child in michael

feels again the deadly poison arriving, even if disguised as "scienceproof"

and so on

 

i feel dear ZenBob that you too are somehow "blessed" with a strong mind

please let us use all our tools for one purpose only

 

being of tower of light in a world which gets darker and darker day by day

 

ready??

 

Thank you for your try

 

 

in LOVE FOR THE ONE AND ONLY

 

michael

 

 

 

 

 

 

<zen2wrk

Re: urgent request my fifth try to mail it to you

 

In a message dated 8/9/2004 5:51:33 AM Pacific Daylight Time,

advaita0 writes:

 

Dear Harsha and all members of the group

 

sorry for disturbing your peace and tranquility

 

since days something disturbs me a lot about whats going on our list

 

today i realized that people who claim somehow to have reached a

certain point of inner knowledge according to the beloved Ramana

Maharshi should not use this satsangh to deliver their personal

opinions regarding themes which are in dispute.

 

 

 

 

 

Michael:

 

I regret if any of my comments perturbed your orbit, but honestly, if you

 

read what I wrote, you simply have tripped the wire on the comment I already

 

made...and sadly, protesteth too much, and more sadly, do so in a rather

 

confused and overwrought state...notwithstanding, none here, including myself,

 

should ever make any comment that would offend anyone...but I fear, as always,

 

that it sometimes takes a person to extend their toes a bit farther than

usual

for them to be so badly stepped upon.

 

I admonish Tony to always keep his focus and his vitriol well under control,

 

and in that same spirit I sincerely ask you, Michael, to pull back those

 

sensitive toes a bit, and understand that there is such a thing a history,

such

a thing as facts, and such a thing as speculation about the origins of our

 

world and its people and our resulting culture. In this speculation there

can

be no harm, so long as their is no intent to harm, no intent to be malicious,

 

but where the intent is to be scrupulous and accurate.

 

The Sphinx was an ancient marvel at the time that the Pyramid of Kufu was

 

built, and that should say lot about the history of Egypt. Specualtion

was a

rich topic then, as it is now. That the pyramids were built not by slaves

 

but by highly motivated and skilled work-gangs, has long been established

in

the world of archeology. This is not revisionist history or motivated

by any

desire to impune any culture or persons...the facts themselves speak volumes

 

about the world of the Egyptian people in ancient times.

 

Illusions and myths are the greater danger to humankind, not facts,

discoveries, evidences, and the wonderfully revealing truth of DNA, which

will prove

us all brothers and sisters in ways we never dreamed (dreamt) and

(humorously) in ways many never dared imagine.

 

Everyone lighten up or else! Hah!

 

Peace,

 

Zenbob

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

________________

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[Guest guest]

, michaelbindel@t... wrote:

> Dear Zenbob

> It is written out of my "soul", it shows those who want to

understand me

> was disappointed and even hurt, when you finally agreed with

something tony

> posted.

> And i am connected of course with tony too - but some traits he

radiates

> i doubt if they are constructive.

> So this mail of yours ignited my action to finally write to the

list.

>

> Regarding all the scientific or not scientific facts or not facts

you and

> Tony stated

> sorry dear one

> for me this is real old stuff since decades

> which one time has been important to me because i wanted to find

out who

> am i what it means to be jewish and please something you not

easily can

> imagine:

> to find a reason why i have survived when so many jewish children

have been

> murdered because i blamed myself for not even being worth to get

murdered

 

Namaste M,

 

Horror or horrors, somebody agreed with Tony. I try to analyse the

present sometimes by referring to the past. I don't want to impune

your Jewish ancestry, whatever that means. My grandmother was Jewish

an Ellis, which apparently is a Sephardic name, ( Which may mean

that I am more semitic than most european jews--who knows), but she

was born in Ireland. Whether she was descended from Irish Jews of

longstanding or came in the Lithuanian exodus in the 19th century, I

don't know.

I also could go on about the treatment of my people of Jewish

ancestry, by the Nazis etc etc,or I could look on my Irish side and

to on about the AN GORTA MOR, or great death that occurred with the

famine and dispersals in the mid 19th century--millons also died.

The reason for all this terrible treatment is Karma and that's it.

 

The past is the past and should be that, unfortunately sometimes

peope drag up past non historical myths and use them as an excuse to

carry out some unsavoury acts in the present.

 

I posted a url by a great Jewish doctor---Gabor Mate did you read

it?????

 

http://www.geocities.com/aoclery/politicoconspiracy/Zionismdoesntdefi

nejewish.htm

 

I suggest you read Norman Finkelstein also, he has a website.

Hidden Mysteries Books

 

 

The Holocaust Industry

Reflections on the Exploitation of Jewish Suffering

 

by Norman G. Finkelstein

 

 

In an iconoclastic and controversial new study, Norman G.

Finkelstein interrogates the conventional accounts of the place the

Holocaust has come to occupy in American culture. It was not until

the Arab-Israeli War of 1967, when Israel's evident strength brought

it into line with US foreign policy, that memory of the Holocaust

began to acquire the exceptional prominence it enjoys today. Leaders

of America's Jewish community were delighted that Israel was now

deemed a major strategic asset and, Finkelstein contends, exploited

the Holocaust to enhance this new-found status. Their subsequent

interpretations of the tragedy are often at variance with actual

historical events and are employed to deflect any criticism of

Israel and its' supporters. Recalling Holocaust fraudsters such as

Jerzy Kosinski and Binyamin Wilkomirski, as well as the demagogic

constructions of writers like Daniel Goldhagen, Finkelstein contends

that the main danger posed to the memory of Nazism's victims comes

not from the rubbish of Holocaust deniers but from prominent, self-

proclaimed guardians of Holocaust memory. Scrupulously researched

and closely argued, The Holocaust Industry is all the more

disturbing and powerful because the issues it deals with are so

rarely discussed.

 

Contents

Acknowledgments

Foreword to the Paperback Edition

Introduction

Capitalizing The Holocaust

Hoaxers, Hucksters, and History

The Double Shakedown

Conclusion 141

Postscript to the Paperback Edition

Index

 

Excerpt:

Page 41-42

"Holocaust awareness," the respected Israeli writer Boas Evron

observes, is actually "an official, propagandistic indoctrinations,

a churning out of slogans and a false view of the world, the real

aim of which is not at all and understanding of the past, but a

manipulation of present." In and of itself, the Nazi holocaust does

not serve any particular political agenda. It can just as easily

motivate the dissent from as support for Israeli policy. Refracted

through an ideological prism, however, "the memory of the Nazi

extermination" came to serve - in Evron's words - "as a powerful

tool in the hands of the Israeli leadership and Jews abroad." The

Nazi holocaust became The Holocaust.

 

Two central dogmas underpin the Holocaust framework: (1) The

Holocaust marks a categorically unique historical event; (2) The

Holocaust marks the climax of an irrational, eternal Gentile hatred

of Jews. Neither of these dogmas figured at all in public discourse

before the June 1967 war; and, although they became the centerpieces

of Holocaust literature, neither figures at all in genuine

scholarship on the Nazi holocaust. On the other hand, both dogmas

draw on important strands in Judaism and Zionism.

 

In the aftermath of World War II, the Nazi holocaust was not cast as

uniquely Jewish - let alone a historically unique - event. Organized

American Jewry in particular was at pains to place it in a

universalist context. After the June war, however, the Nazi Final

Solution was radically reframed. "The first and most important claim

that emerged from the 1967 war and became emblematic of American

Judaism," Jacob Neusner recalls, was that "the Holocaust...was

unique, without parallel in human history." In an illuminating

essay, historian David Stannard ridicules the "small industry of

Holocaust hagiographers arguing for the uniqueness of the Jewish

experience with all the energy and ingenuity of theological

zealots." The uniqueness dogma, after all, makes no sense.

 

Michael these Jews, who do not follow the approved Israeli line have

tried to put an objective view on things. If you perhaps study this

side a little it may help you come to terms with

yourself...ONS..Tony.

[Guest guest]

, "Tony OClery" <aoclery>

wrote:

> , michaelbindel@t... wrote:

> > Dear Zenbob

> > It is written out of my "soul", it shows those who want to

> understand me

> > was disappointed and even hurt, when you finally agreed with

> something tony

> > posted.

> > And i am connected of course with tony too - but some traits he

> radiates

> > i doubt if they are constructive.

> > So this mail of yours ignited my action to finally write to the

> list.

> >

> > Regarding all the scientific or not scientific facts or not

facts

> you and

> > Tony stated

> > sorry dear one

> > for me this is real old stuff since decades

> > which one time has been important to me because i wanted to find

> out who

> > am i what it means to be jewish and please something you not

> easily can

> > imagine:

> > to find a reason why i have survived when so many jewish

children

> have been

> > murdered because i blamed myself for not even being worth to get

> murdered

>

> Namaste M,

>

> Horror or horrors, somebody agreed with Tony. I try to analyse the

> present sometimes by referring to the past. I don't want to impune

> your Jewish ancestry, whatever that means. My grandmother was

Jewish

> an Ellis, which apparently is a Sephardic name, ( Which may mean

> that I am more semitic than most european jews--who knows), but

she

> was born in Ireland. Whether she was descended from Irish Jews of

> longstanding or came in the Lithuanian exodus in the 19th century,

I

> don't know.

> I also could go on about the treatment of my people of Jewish

> ancestry, by the Nazis etc etc,or I could look on my Irish side

and

> to on about the AN GORTA MOR, or great death that occurred with

the

> famine and dispersals in the mid 19th century--millons also died.

> The reason for all this terrible treatment is Karma and that's it.

>

> The past is the past and should be that, unfortunately sometimes

> peope drag up past non historical myths and use them as an excuse

to

> carry out some unsavoury acts in the present.

>

> I posted a url by a great Jewish doctor---Gabor Mate did you read

> it?????

>

>

http://www.geocities.com/aoclery/politicoconspiracy/Zionismdoesntdefi

> nejewish.htm

>

> I suggest you read Norman Finkelstein also, he has a website.

> Hidden Mysteries Books

 

Namaste,

 

http://www.normanfinkelstein.com/id17.htm

 

ONS..Tony

[Guest guest]

michaelbindel wrote:

> ...to find a reason why i have survived

> when so many jewish children have been

> murdered because i blamed myself for not

> even being worth to get murdered

> ...

> i am grateful being born this time in this

> terrible circumstance feeling it a grace

> because it showed me how deep and undestroyable

> my love for GD is.

 

Michael, when I was half a year old (baptized

catholic) during the WWII hunger winter in Holland, I

ended up in a German occupied hospital in Delft. At

some point it was decided that I would not survive

diphtheria and dysentery so I was dumped in a cot type

of thing with other babies who had already died.

 

Some very intense therapy enabled me to string

together whatever I recollected - flashes of memory,

nightmares, physical symptoms, fragments of sentences

- into one full story.

 

A few years ago, when my mom came to visit us here in

Canada, I checked my story against her recollection.

Except for the location of the hospital, an almost 100

% concurrence, I had the dark green color of the paint

on the rusty metal window sashes right...

 

I remember the face of the German overseer who checked

my ability to survive, I remember my mom huffing and

puffing over a prawn, me looking up into her frantic

face, she rushing me home.

 

She had made quite a fuss in the hospital to rescue me

from dying by myself, "If he dies he will die in my

arms." I remember a few words from the German doctor

"Ich bin ein..." and I somehow remember what went

through his mind about his own daughter back in

Germany, would he have discarded her?

 

Obviously I did not die - unless I am typing this in

some kind of after life state.

 

What do we know actually?!

 

That man and his family, his daughter my age, came to

visit our family when I was 13 years old, they came

from Bielefeld Germany. Of course I fell in love with

the girl "Katerina". They never returned. Except for

one "ansichtkaart" greeting from the girl we never

heard of them anymore.

 

Everything is very OK, no chips on my shoulders,

never any bad feelings. Any revenge? Nope.

In the reality of the moment one accepts...

 

Why are you still here?

Why am I?

Why did we make it?

 

There is so much redundancy in the 'nature of life' (a

big mysterious miracle really) that we COULD make

it... That is enough.

 

Why us though?

 

It doesn't matter to nature, as long as some make it!

 

I never needed a reason, evidence was good enough...

My mom never questioned, she just did...

 

Am I here only because my mom was strong enough to

overcome all her fears? She would never accept any

rejection ever anyway. I asked if she thought that her

mother-love for me was unconditional, if that made her

strong. "Nothing like that even entered my mind," she

said, she did not even like the word "mother

instinct". She just answered a call and knew she had

to get me, that's all.

 

Wim

[Guest guest]

, Wim <wim_borsboom> wrote:

> michaelbindel@t... wrote:

>

> > ...to find a reason why i have survived

> > when so many jewish children have been

> > murdered because i blamed myself for not

> > even being worth to get murdered

> > ...

> > i am grateful being born this time in this

> > terrible circumstance feeling it a grace

> > because it showed me how deep and undestroyable

> > my love for GD is.

>

> Michael, when I was half a year old (baptized

> catholic) during the WWII hunger winter in Holland, I

> ended up in a German occupied hospital in Delft. At

> some point it was decided that I would not survive

> diphtheria and dysentery so I was dumped in a cot type

> of thing with other babies who had already died.

 

Namaste,

 

I could go on about the Germans dropping bombs on my head, and my

grandfather having to take me down in a basement. Or growing up in a

town where whole streets were wiped out leaving only a house

standing, like a sentinel in the middle. Or playing on bomb sites,

and growing up thinking all countries had bomb sites to play on etc.

We talk about all this but we are here, and there are people on here

who have real bloody problems, like a husband with cancer and so on.

We cant be whingeing about the past etc it is all karma.

I get accused of not being loving sometimes,for not paying

lipservice to deception and bad behaviour, or pointing out most

scriptures are teaching myths, and the concept of authorship not

known at the time.

 

I CRIED BECAUSE I HAD NO SHOES THEN I MET SOMEONE WITH NO

FEET...ONS...Tony.

[Guest guest]

, Wim <wim_borsboom> wrote:

> --- Tony OClery <aoclery> wrote:

>

> > , Wim

> > <wim_borsboom> wrote:

> > > michaelbindel@t... wrote:

> > >

> > > > ...to find a reason why i have survived

> > > > when so many jewish children have been

> > > > murdered because i blamed myself for not

> > > > even being worth to get murdered

> > > > ...

> > > > i am grateful being born this time in this

> > > > terrible circumstance feeling it a grace

> > > > because it showed me how deep and undestroyable

> > > > my love for GD is.

> > >

> > > Michael, when I was half a year old (baptized

> > > catholic) during the WWII hunger winter in

> > Holland, I

> > > ended up in a German occupied hospital in Delft.

> > At

> > > some point it was decided that I would not survive

> > > diphtheria and dysentery so I was dumped in a cot

> > type

> > > of thing with other babies who had already died.

> >

> > Namaste,

> >

> > I could go on about the Germans dropping bombs on my

> > head, and my

> > grandfather having to take me down in a basement. Or

> > growing up in a

> > town where whole streets were wiped out leaving only

> > a house

> > standing, like a sentinel in the middle. Or playing

> > on bomb sites,

> > and growing up thinking all countries had bomb sites

> > to play on etc.

> > We talk about all this but we are here, and there

> > are people on here

> > who have real bloody problems, like a husband with

> > cancer and so on.

> >

> > We cant be whingeing about the past etc it is all

> > karma.

>

> Right... or not right?

>

> Can one actually make such a blanket

> statement?Whatever a person intends to accomplish by

> talking about his or her past, may in the eyes of

> someone like you be whining or "whingeing. (?) Other

> people though may listen differently. If that person

> would be under mental care or even in a psychiatric

> treatment center he or she would actually be prompted

> to express themselves freely... lest they cannot let

> go of 'their demons'.

> Luckily nowadays, one doesn't have to be 'committed'

> to do that, a satsangh (being a satsangh) like this

> should be a safe environment where one can say things

> without someone ready to invalidate their expression,

> the way you were just now trying to invalidate a

> certain kind of freeing and free self expression.

 

Namaste,W,

 

There has been a repeat performance of this stuff on different

sites. When I was at 'AA' we used to call it the 'Poor Me-s' and

were counselled to don't carry out that behaviour. You come on here

after an absence with your usual stuff and stir things up. This is

your modus operandi. The best advice for someone with the poor mes

is to forget about the past and start living today---------get up

and get on with it. If the poor mes are something worse then that

person or persons should seek professional help. There isn't any on

here, just commonsense, insanity and folk advice.

There is an agenda for some to attack me on here and I don't want to

feed into that. I can be as compassionate and as loving as the next

guy but it isn't always syrupy and pollyanna............ONS..Tony.

[Guest guest]

, "Tony OClery" <aoclery>

wrote:

 

Namaste,W,

 

There has been a repeat performance of this stuff on different

sites. When I was at 'AA' we used to call it the 'Poor Me-s' and

were counselled to don't carry out that behaviour. You come on here

after an absence with your usual stuff and stir things up. This is

your modus operandi. The best advice for someone with the poor mes

is to forget about the past and start living today---------get up and

get on with it. If the poor mes are something worse then that

person or persons should seek professional help. There isn't any on

here, just commonsense, insanity and folk advice.

There is an agenda for some to attack me on here and I don't want to

feed into that. I can be as compassionate and as loving as the next

guy but it isn't always syrupy and pollyanna............ONS..Tony.

 

Hi Tony,

 

I would like to respectfully disagree. I'm not sure, "forget about

the past and start living today--get up and get on with it" is good

advice before one has faced one's own pain, had compassion on it, and

has put forth some effort to understand the nature of it. Before

that point, it amounts to nothing more than denial and "pushing down"

of feelings. There is certainly a time to move on, in the natural

course of things, yes, agreed. However, by not allowing ourselves to

face our feelings or to speak of them, that natural course is re-

routed and healing is postponed, (at least I have found this to be

the case in my own life.) There are those times when the only help

necessary is a listening ear, willing to sit with the pain until it

has been realeased...neither trying to fix it nor run away from it.

Those times may be more numerous than the times when professional

help is called for. All pain seems real enough at the time for the

one going through it; there is no contest amongst us humans regarding

degree of pain and no comparison is necessary. We are One. To be

told that our pain and our past is "unreal" is not always helpful.

 

For the record, I will say this: I am confused by complaints about

posts when they seem harmless enough...push "next" if you don't enjoy

it, is my philosophy. It doesn't seem difficult. (I know I don't

know the entire history here and I have no desire to get into what

may be personal agendas.) Just as a rule of thumb, I say, let your

own Spirit pour forth...drink from your own well...express your own

heart. This is how we fill ourselves, this is how we find our meaning

and richness...and this is how we encourage "others" to do that. Not

by name-calling.

 

-Aly (sticking her two-cents in)

[Guest guest]

--- Tony OClery <aoclery wrote:

> , Wim

> <wim_borsboom> wrote:

> > --- Tony OClery <aoclery> wrote:

> >

> > > , Wim

> > > <wim_borsboom> wrote:

> > > > michaelbindel@t... wrote:

> > > >

> > > > > ...to find a reason why i have survived

> > > > > when so many jewish children have been

> > > > > murdered because i blamed myself for not

> > > > > even being worth to get murdered

> > > > > ...

> > > > > i am grateful being born this time in this

> > > > > terrible circumstance feeling it a grace

> > > > > because it showed me how deep and

> undestroyable

> > > > > my love for GD is.

> > > >

> > > > Michael, when I was half a year old (baptized

> > > > catholic) during the WWII hunger winter in

> > > Holland, I

> > > > ended up in a German occupied hospital in

> Delft.

> > > At

> > > > some point it was decided that I would not

> survive

> > > > diphtheria and dysentery so I was dumped in a

> cot

> > > type

> > > > of thing with other babies who had already

> died.

> > >

> > > Namaste,

> > >

> > > I could go on about the Germans dropping bombs

> on my

> > > head, and my

> > > grandfather having to take me down in a

> basement. Or

> > > growing up in a

> > > town where whole streets were wiped out leaving

> only

> > > a house

> > > standing, like a sentinel in the middle. Or

> playing

> > > on bomb sites,

> > > and growing up thinking all countries had bomb

> sites

> > > to play on etc.

> > > We talk about all this but we are here, and

> there

> > > are people on here

> > > who have real bloody problems, like a husband

> with

> > > cancer and so on.

> > >

> > > We cant be whingeing about the past etc it is

> all

> > > karma.

> >

> > Right... or not right?

> >

> > Can one actually make such a blanket

> > statement?Whatever a person intends to accomplish

> by

> > talking about his or her past, may in the eyes of

> > someone like you be whining or "whingeing. (?)

> Other

> > people though may listen differently. If that

> person

> > would be under mental care or even in a

> psychiatric

> > treatment center he or she would actually be

> prompted

> > to express themselves freely... lest they cannot

> let

> > go of 'their demons'.

> > Luckily nowadays, one doesn't have to be

> 'committed'

> > to do that, a satsangh (being a satsangh) like

> this

> > should be a safe environment where one can say

> things

> > without someone ready to invalidate their

> expression,

> > the way you were just now trying to invalidate a

> > certain kind of freeing and free self expression.

>

> Namaste,W,

>

> There has been a repeat performance of this stuff on

> different

> sites. When I was at 'AA' we used to call it the

> 'Poor Me-s' and

> were counselled to don't carry out that behaviour.

> You come on here

> after an absence with your usual stuff and stir

> things up. This is

> your modus operandi. The best advice for someone

> with the poor mes

> is to forget about the past and start living

> today---------get up

> and get on with it. If the poor mes are something

> worse then that

> person or persons should seek professional help.

> There isn't any on

> here, just commonsense, insanity and folk advice.

> There is an agenda for some to attack me on here and

> I don't want to

> feed into that. I can be as compassionate and as

> loving as the next

> guy but it isn't always syrupy and

> pollyanna............ONS..Tony.

 

We may not have seen that compassionate side of you

Tony, not even the the non-syrupy, non-pollyanna like

compassionate Tony...

> When I was at 'AA' we used to

> call it the 'Poor Me-s'

 

Don't you see Tony, that it is you who plays "the poor

me" here, the single lonesome guy "who is being ganged

up on."

You actually over time orchestrate that so very

cleverly. You make it so look that way... But it is

NOT that way Tony... when I delurked a week or so ago

you were already in trouble, two pretty strong posts

had come your way that got nicely deflected. Remember

also some people commenting on your hahahas over the

last half year, someone on your "drivel" (not my

word), someone on your strange Irish humor...

 

Instead of taking a look at it, some self inspection,

you then actually do some grandstanding instead...

 

What you refer to in what I wrote as a "poor me"

piece, was EXACTLY NOT that, it was to show how things

get worked out, gotten rid off, how the demons of the

past can lose their hold on the mind.

 

What you think you got counseled during your AA

meetings is merely putting things behind you, but

don't you notice that what you may have put behind

you, keeps stepping on your heels. That is what makes

you say the things you say the way you say them, with

always that strange twist to them...

 

Wim

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 8/10/2004 12:55:19 PM Pacific Daylight Time,

aoclery writes:

 

I CRIED BECAUSE I HAD NO SHOES THEN I MET SOMEONE WITH NO

FEET...ONS...Tony.

 

 

 

Did you make that one up, Tony? Twould be clever if you had, but as an

unattributed quote from times long gone by, it's a little bit cliche and a lot

off the mark.

 

I would like to point out that my original comments and subsequent replies

have now, like some great snowball avalanche rolling down Everest, born of a

simple handfull of snow fall, generated such a plethora of comment, ridicule,

absurd and desperate defenses, critiques and so forth...so much so, that I am

a bit amazed like the cat that finally regurgitated its own hairball and was

stunned into astonishment by the sheer audacity of it.

 

Well, first of all, when I critique Tony, I do not do so to drive Tony away,

nor to ridicule his ideas, but to express concerns over their direction,

thought, and the danger that they will only estrange him further from others,

not the opposite. I also think that at times, his comments can be a bit off

base, but we have all at times, missed the mark of perfection, and I believe a

degree of tolerance and forgiveness is always a rather good hedge against the

winter of humanity's discontent.

 

I believe that if we carefully trim the extreme ends of the viewpoints, we

find something akin to our common humanity and need for emotional

connection...admittedly how each of us goes about trying to "get his/her own"

can make

all the difference in the world, but matters of kind or matters of "how much"

are less important than the fact that we each have inner emotional demons,

drives, hopes, apsirations, fears, and failings, and that none of us is above

reproach, nor should any of us feel that we should refrain from reaching out to

help those that might need help. Of course, some people never break the

bonds of their own "loop tapes" and revert there whenever they are in fear, pain

or trying to convince us that they have conquered the ego.

 

I think I love that best...as the ego is never more dangerously smug than

when one feels that contented glow of self achievement that comes of attaining a

moment of bliss...well, we all are so very special, don't you know?

 

Wisdom and truthfulness are really layers of subtle things that usually defy

an easy description and it is never enough that anyone desires to be wise,

or desires to be truthful (and I mean intellectually honest, true to oneself,

truthfull in terms of being open to others without evasion, and without the

need to add a bit of this or that to spice up the mix), because one does not

gather wisdom or truth at the marketplace, not can one gain them from merely

the study of "facts" and at the same time, rarely can either exist without some

rather deep depth of experience and knowledge...but knowing, as most realize

is not merely the accumulation of facts or ideas. It is testing these

things in the world, being in the world but not of it, gaining inner knowledge

by

learning about the deepest desires of others, gaining the ability to think of

others because one has explored one's own soul as fully as possible and has

realized that harmony only occurs in numbers...that balance requires more

than one person on the teeter-totter of life.

 

I just want Tony to wait before he leaps. I want him to fully explore his

ideas before he shares them willy-nilly and at a surface level. What he often

considers spiritual knowledge is merely religiosity and religious wording

rephrased without the spirit breathing life into it (ressurection).

 

Now that I have bored everyone to tears of joy, I suggest everyone make nice

and salute the light within everyone else, without any undue rancor.

 

Let us be wise, by showing restraint, let us be compassionate by engaging in

laughter,

let us be big by avoiding fad diets...

 

Love,

Peace,

 

Zenbob

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Aly wrote...

 

I say, let your own Spirit pour forth...drink from your own well...express

your own

heart. This is how we fill ourselves, this is how we find our meaning

and richness...and this is how we encourage "others" to do that.

 

Thank you Aly, for your priceless two cents :-)

 

Love,

 

Joyce

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 8/10/2004 8:48:14 AM Pacific Daylight Time,

michaelbindel writes:

 

being of tower of light in a world which gets darker and darker day by day

 

ready??

 

Thank you for your try

 

 

in LOVE FOR THE ONE AND ONLY

 

michael

 

 

 

 

Ah, my entire purpose in discussing Tony and his writings was to shake many

of the devoted list members into discussion, sharing, Bhakti and awareness

again.

 

This is all a good thing, Michael....

 

And I am so glad to have you communicating with us all!

 

Peace,

 

Zenbob

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Dear Ali

 

i agree with you but under certain circumstances i feel i have to state

when danger is ahead.....

 

all the best

 

in GD i trust

 

michael

 

 

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[Guest guest]

, "Aly" <freckalyb@a...> wrote:

> , "Tony OClery"

<aoclery>

>

Namaste,A.

 

Very simply, will I respond to you. Have you been an addict, have

you been in a 12 step programme like AA, have you studied

counselling, are you an expert on psychology? Neither am I, I just

know from AA, that indulging the 'Poor me-s', in oneself and other

people is counterproductive to mental health and recovery.

Sometimes, It is also dwelling on the past, which nobody can do

anything about. The person involved has mentioned this poor me stuff

on a couple of sites, over a period of time. I felt it was time to

be compassionate with AA type tough love.........that's all. No

apologies..........ONS...Tony.