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Sayings of Jesus#84----Gospel of Thomas

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Namaste

 

84) Jesus said, "When you see your likeness, you rejoice. But

when you see your images which came into being before you, and

which neither die not become manifest, how much you will have to

bear!"

 

Purport:O'Clery

This is referring to reincarnation and previous lives and the karma

from those. Plus all the images and beings on the other planes or

heavens......ONS...Tony

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In a message dated 8/13/2004 8:33:13 AM Pacific Daylight Time,

aoclery writes:

 

84) Jesus said, "When you see your likeness, you rejoice. But

when you see your images which came into being before you, and

which neither die not become manifest, how much you will have to

bear!"

 

Purport:O'Clery

This is referring to reincarnation and previous lives and the karma

from those. Plus all the images and beings on the other planes or

heavens......ONS...

 

 

First of all, the line should read : "...which neither die NOR become

manifest, how..."

 

This could refer to past lives, or it could also literally means past

promises and deeds that have the enduring nature to haunt one's present life.

We

cannot escape the shadow of our own life trail, and there is a wake left in

the passage of anyone through their life, no matter how we seek to rise to some

higher plane of existence. Again, I think that Jesus, if he in fact, said

such a thing, could easily have meant it to have both of these meanings at

the same time. He seemed to really glory in his ability to say something that

spoke at several simultaneous levels to his audiences. Noteworthy is the

apparent lack of self-absorbtion or the easy temptation of the nudge or wink.

Jesus kept a very dead-pan manner, by all accounts and never publically fell

into the trap of being "clever." He was serious in purpose, enthusiastic

and outgoing, but these double and triple entendres and layers were shared with

a very cunning and premeditated approach. Many experts in psychology today

might call these "thought bombs." They are delivered not with the intent of

satisfying or ansering a direct question in the immediate sense, although

they give a plausible surface response. They are in fact, intended to stymie

and and disturb the listeners...creating discussion and debate. Jesus even

warned of this, "I come to turn a house against itself, brother against sister

and son against father, mother against daughter..." but he did not mean to

suggest literal warfare, simply the lively debate of ideas that has become

staple of the Mediterranean people. One wonders how premeditated these

remarks

were, or how spontaneous (a real gift!) as these are most often replies to

questions, although a few famous ones, are of course, simply "sermons" which

of course, were well prepared in advance.

 

What is humorous to me, is that when Jesus remarked that no one would know

the hour or place of his "return" he was never referring to a "2nd Coming" as

many Christians today mistakenly believe. He was talking about the time and

place of his reappearance after his Crucifixion, which was yet to occur.

 

While on this subject, was anyone anywhere of the obscure theory, based on

much hearsay and a littel evidence that Jesus was never Crucified, but that

some other criminal of his basic stature and appearance was substituted by

Pilate's wife with the assistance of Mary Magdalene and Jesus' mother Mary?

That

when they were given the bundles of Jesus original clothing to clean, that

Jesus was in fact spirited away with them? Such an 11th hour substitution

was not out of the question, and it remains sort of a puzzle as to why would

Pilate have interrupted his own proceedings in order to display Jesus a second

time, somewhat bloodied and beaten, just so that Jesus could identify

himself to his mother, "Behold, your son" as this would otherwise seem sort of

obvious to anyone of normal senses and mentality. However, if it was needed to

set the stage for the switch, then it makes a sudden sort of sense, because

Mary would need to keep an eye on her son, rather than mistakenly go after the

"double." What happened to the body of the double? Entombed, of course,

but then buried right away, once Jesus was allowed to "reappear." After

reappearing, his most loyal inner circle would necessarily have wished to get

out

of Dodge, because that had to be part of the deal with the Romans in the first

place, not to mention that the Pharisees and Saducees would have been none

too happy to have Jesus in their midst again.

 

For those who have eyes, consider the evidence and ponder this

possibility...it may not be true, but then again, most of what we read is only a

vague

shadow of reality...

 

 

Namaste,

 

Zenbob

 

 

 

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, zen2wrk@a... wrote:

>

> In a message dated 8/13/2004 8:33:13 AM Pacific Daylight Time,

> aoclery writes:

>

> 84) Jesus said, "When you see your likeness, you rejoice. But

> when you see your images which came into being before you, and

> which neither die not become manifest, how much you will have to

> bear!"

>

> Purport:O'Clery

> This is referring to reincarnation and previous lives and the

karma

> from those. Plus all the images and beings on the other planes or

> heavens......ONS...>

>

>

> First of all, the line should read : "...which neither die NOR

become

> manifest, how..."

>

> This could refer to past lives, or it could also literally means

past

> promises and deeds that have the enduring nature to haunt one's

present life. We

> cannot escape the shadow of our own life trail, and there is a

wake left in

> the passage of anyone through their life, no matter how we seek to

rise to some

> higher plane of existence. Again, I think that Jesus, if he in

fact, said

> such a thing, could easily have meant it to have both of these

meanings at

> the same time. He seemed to really glory in his ability to say

something that

> spoke at several simultaneous levels to his audiences.

Noteworthy is the

> apparent lack of self-absorbtion or the easy temptation of the

nudge or wink.

> Jesus kept a very dead-pan manner, by all accounts and never

publically fell

> into the trap of being "clever." He was serious in purpose,

enthusiastic

> and outgoing, but these double and triple entendres and layers

were shared with

> a very cunning and premeditated approach. Many experts in

psychology today

> might call these "thought bombs." They are delivered not with the

intent of

> satisfying or ansering a direct question in the immediate sense,

although

> they give a plausible surface response. They are in fact,

intended to stymie

> and and disturb the listeners...creating discussion and debate.

Jesus even

> warned of this, "I come to turn a house against itself, brother

against sister

> and son against father, mother against daughter..." but he did not

mean to

> suggest literal warfare, simply the lively debate of ideas that has

become

> staple of the Mediterranean people. One wonders how premeditated

these remarks

> were, or how spontaneous (a real gift!) as these are most often

replies to

> questions, although a few famous ones, are of course,

simply "sermons" which

> of course, were well prepared in advance.

>

> What is humorous to me, is that when Jesus remarked that no one

would know

> the hour or place of his "return" he was never referring to a "2nd

Coming" as

> many Christians today mistakenly believe. He was talking about

the time and

> place of his reappearance after his Crucifixion, which was yet to

occur.

>

> While on this subject, was anyone anywhere of the obscure theory,

based on

> much hearsay and a littel evidence that Jesus was never Crucified,

but that

> some other criminal of his basic stature and appearance was

substituted by

> Pilate's wife with the assistance of Mary Magdalene and Jesus'

mother Mary? That

> when they were given the bundles of Jesus original clothing to

clean, that

> Jesus was in fact spirited away with them? Such an 11th hour

substitution

> was not out of the question, and it remains sort of a puzzle as to

why would

> Pilate have interrupted his own proceedings in order to display

Jesus a second

> time, somewhat bloodied and beaten, just so that Jesus could

identify

> himself to his mother, "Behold, your son" as this would otherwise

seem sort of

> obvious to anyone of normal senses and mentality. However, if it

was needed to

> set the stage for the switch, then it makes a sudden sort of

sense, because

> Mary would need to keep an eye on her son, rather than mistakenly

go after the

> "double." What happened to the body of the double? Entombed, of

course,

> but then buried right away, once Jesus was allowed to "reappear."

After

> reappearing, his most loyal inner circle would necessarily have

wished to get out

> of Dodge, because that had to be part of the deal with the Romans

in the first

> place, not to mention that the Pharisees and Saducees would have

been none

> too happy to have Jesus in their midst again.

>

> For those who have eyes, consider the evidence and ponder this

> possibility...it may not be true, but then again, most of what we

read is only a vague

> shadow of reality...

>

>

> Namaste,

>

> Zenbob

 

 

:) does it all matter?

 

and if, to whom?

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