Opposed

[Guest guest]

Harsha, I won't be on my toes.

 

 

Because there is no sum of Knowledge,

which hair can I split?

 

I am on my knees.

 

 

 

 

 

Alan

[Guest guest]

, "Al Larus" <erilarend>

wrote:

>

> Harsha, I won't be on my toes.

>

>

> Because there is no sum of Knowledge,

> which hair can I split?

>

> I am on my knees.

>

> Alan

****************

Thanks Alan. You are granted Knighthood.

 

Either you are really funny or I am all mixed up.

 

Love,

Harsha

[Guest guest]

Alan wrote...

 

Harsha, I won't be on my toes.

Because there is no sum of Knowledge,

which hair can I split?

I am on my knees.

 

Gee Alan, why don't you say what you really mean? :-) :-) :-)

 

================================================

 

Can we talk?

 

What i am going to say is only my impression of some of what

I have seen here. I preface my comments with an apology if

I miss the mark or offend in any way. My intention is to explore

the issues which keep coming back to see if we can find that

common ground again, by letting go of the briars which seem

to be getting in the way of our mutual journey together.

 

It seems to me that the list has returned to the same mode

of communication which manifested itself while Harshaji was

away, only now he is here :-) Welcome back, dear Harshaji :-)

 

ZENBOB:

 

Zenbob, you don't like Tony's Gospel posts..is it really that important

to you? Some really enjoyed your take on the posts, so there was

some redeeming value to them there. There have been a few members who

have openly said they liked the posts, and a few who have openly said

they did not like the posts. And a great number who have said nothing.

 

You wrote...

 

"Honest to Gosh, I am just about totally fed up. Many of us have asked to

you desist with the Jesus Rambling things...but as soon as the list comes

back

on, there you are...just prattling as usual, not having taken one bit of

good

wisdom from everyone's comments."

 

You act all shocked that Tony comes back and starts posting them again.

HellO!!! What did you expect? That he was going to stop posting them?

He has already said that he posts them as prasad...where I come from

you eat the prasad, or decline it but you do not insult it!!! You do not

say to the cook..."I do not like what you cooked...how dare you bring that

to

puja?"

 

I guess I wonder why it is so important to you that Tony stop? Is it really

because you think he is wasting the Sangha's time, or because you find

it irritating? Or is there another issue with Tony that is hiding behind

St. Thomas? Is it really because Edgar Cayce is not the subject of this

list? Or is it that you don't agree with his choice of "guides"? There

may be some on the list who appreciate it. Is it a side issue to some?

Yes. Is it the essence of Truth to some? Yes.

 

HARSHA

 

So, who is to decide? Hello again, Harsha :-)

You cannot go hide under the bed and refuse to come out :-)

You have mentioned the possibility of Sangha rules.

I think the most important one is to treat each other with respect.

This must include Tony as well, and well, sometimes he says things

a bit roughly and not always so on the mark as he might think

he is in what he says. Perhaps he is fueled by his own issues, one

of which may be the need to have something to say :-).

 

You have said repeatedly that discussion of "teachers" other

than Sri Ramana is fine as long as the members do so with amity.

I think that is embodied in your recent proposed guideline:

 

Rule number 1. Please don't insult each other and use derogatory

language towards others or their teachers even if you strongly believe that

those teachers are complete frauds and you know best because you sit on

the right hand side of God and great truth are whispered in your ears every

few

minutes.

 

And....

 

"So we have these ideals, nonviolence being the primary

principle, and we are not always able to live up to

that. This is why Sangha is considered important in

almost all spiritual traditions. In a circle of

friends, the strength lies both in the individual and

the community and the caring. For human beings to fail

and fall is natural. In a true Sangha, we can pick

each other up."

 

TONY

 

I believe that some of what we are seeing here now is a delayed

reaction to some of what Tony has said in the past to others. There

have been times when others have come out and said so to him, yet,

you, Harshaji, have stood by and said nothing to him. There may be

some stored resentment over this and so we are seeing it now, even

though Tony has not really said anything all that offensive :-) Perhaps

it is prattle, but inoffensive prattle.

 

Tony, it has been my experience that any time anyone talks about

"Kundalini" related experiences, you immediately come flying out

of your corner to say something like this...

 

"Kundalini means nothing. It has nothing to do with spiritual advancement.

All it represents is the cleaning of the sheaths, etc etc etc.

One does not brag about how dirty one's floor is, does one?"

 

I think that there are people on the list who won't even talk about it

for fear that you will come out and mock them. I do not think your

comments of this nature are in the spirit of the list. Sometimes in

order for the person to move on from the experience, the talking

about it serves as their pathway to letting go. So, let them let go.

 

Or, when you comment about "pig poets" and make more

judgments of the way others express themselves.

I guess my question to you is why do you feel the need to do this?

Why can you not just let it go?

 

And, so I have the perfect ending to my post, to all of us*:

 

Let go of what has passed.

Let go of what may come.

Let go of what is happening now.

Don't try to figure anything out.

Don't try to make anything happen.

Relax, right now, and rest.

 

~ Tilopa

 

*(With thanks to Mazie and b)

 

With love to all,

 

Joyce

[Guest guest]

, "Lady Joyce" <shaantih@c...>

wrote:

 

Namaste Joyce et al,

 

My opinions on Kundalini are formed from reading Ramana and

Lakshmana Swami. Both their views are well published;

1. K doesn't result in liberation.

2. K doesn't arise in the muladhara.

3. It can be a diversion.

 

My opinion based on this is that practising stimulating chakras,

hence kosas or sheaths, may result in the power of miracles but not

liberation. That is in the Heart.

If stimulating the cakras is done with a spiritual sense then, it is

prana cleansing the sheaths-cleansing the samskaras and vasanas, or

tendencies. What else could it be? There is only prana and karma, K

is the Universal Mind.

 

Contrary to what many may think here, I actually practise a daily

stimulation of the cakras and raising of prana to the sahasrara. I

then feel it go to my chest in meditation and then there is no

memory. However I have no illusions about what is going on with the

movements of this prana, most of which these days is spontaneous

anyway.

 

With regard to Jesus. Well I consider him to be a Jivanmukta, as do

Ramana, Ramakrishna, Vivekananda and many others. The Thomas Gospel

in its non duality seems like something Jesus would have said.

 

With regard to Cayce the reader and channeler. He is not omnipotent

and in many ways he translates with the minds of the audience. So it

is through a prism of his colouring.

I do cross reference him a lot with normal scientific reports and

other people who may be Saints. A lot of what he says about Atlantis

etc, and past technology can be found in the Puranas. AS Blavatsky

found to her delight.

Cayce says Jesus had about 30 lives in this plane, most Cayce talked

about were Biblical; Adam, Joshuah, Elisha, Melkizadek, etc. He also

did say that he was Zend the father of Zoroastra and that he was

also the Gautama Buddha's closest associate. He also said he was

present with all the great teachers that talked of the Law of One.

It is my guess that the Jesus soul was an avatar in India, America

and elsewhere in the remainder of the 30 incarnations. I think you

will find that Ramakrishna says that his apostles were also the

apostles of Jesus. So to me Jesus is a Jivanmukta....and worthy of

quotes notwithstanding anti Christians or others. I personally have

no religion, although I was raised a Catholic, have some Jewish

heritage and spent 16 years in Hinduism..........ONS..Tony.

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 8/29/2004 8:08:50 AM Pacific Daylight Time,

shaantih writes:

 

I guess I wonder why it is so important to you that Tony stop? Is it really

because you think he is wasting the Sangha's time, or because you find

it irritating? Or is there another issue with Tony that is hiding behind

St. Thomas? Is it really because Edgar Cayce is not the subject of this

list? Or is it that you don't agree with his choice of "guides"? There

may be some on the list who appreciate it. Is it a side issue to some?

Yes. Is it the essence of Truth to some? Yes.

 

 

 

Hi Joyce & Group:

 

If Tony wants to share the supposed Essene Gospels of Thomas, as

mistranslated as they are, but in the context that these are just what they

happen to

be...no more no less, I would not be angry or reactive. It is as if I were to

post some quote from any other teacher or Sage, be it Rumi or Paramahansa

Yogananda. However, it would begin really offending members of this Satsangh

if I reposted the comments of Ramana or Yogananda, AND THEN BEGAN TO EXPLAIN

WHAT THEY REALLY MEANT and then to add insult to injury, has the depth and

wisdom of a gnat.

 

OK, there...it is off my chest...and that, and that is the only and entire

context of my froth.

 

If you can perform archery and hit a vullseye, by all means be an archer.

If you cannot, for God's sake leave it alone and don't go injuring others or

yourself with those sharp arrows. Tony is in the severely dangerous spot of

self-delusionary importance and there is the further danger implied by "others

liking his posts" that they somehow believe that his interpretations have

any merit whatsoever...and further that it is this huge sacrilege of a bad

translation of a purported scroll, being reinterpreted by someone with

questionable critical thinking abilities.

 

I would be just as outraged if a Mercedes manual written in German

originally had been translated into Japanese, later translated again badly in

British

English and then reinterprested by a backyard mechanic from Alabama who loves

only Chevys and Fords.

 

And folks. THat IS EXACTLY WHAT THIS IS EQUIVELANT TO.

 

And, yes, I believe Harsha should step in an moderate this, because I

sincerely believe that much more harm, for everyone will result, than could any

"good." It is a distortion of truth, and as such, it violtates the sanctity

of

the Satsangh, it has caused needless division and animosity and it will

continue to do so unless it is checked.

 

As for the image of bringing a well prepared dish (perhaps even one not

seasoned to ones own taste) to share, that would be an effective image, except

for the fact that Tony is incapable of doing his own cooking, and it is likely

that his preparations might poison someone and that would be the fatal error

in greeting such an offering with warm appreciation.

 

Let's be clear, we are not discussing the casual exchange of opinions,

written as opinions about some philosophic point or some detail of ahimsa,

bhakti

or devoitional habit. We are discussing whether it is appropriate for a

member to pass off their own interpretations of some other writer's work as if

they in some bizarre way were more capable of that interpretation that the

original writer or anyone who wishes to read it. It smacks both of aposty,

heresy and arrogance. It is not something one submits with humility, humor or

even a sharing spirit. It is something else, and it is not appropriate here.

Period.

 

Love,

Peace,

 

Zenbob