Guest guest Posted September 4, 2004 Report Share Posted September 4, 2004 Sri Ramana used to say that either one has to inquire steadfastly about the arising of the aham vritti (the "I" thought--the feeling awareness of I AM) or surrender entirely to the Guru that is one's own Self, the very Heart of one's existence. In either approach, the pure ego, the sense of identity, the "I" ness merges in the Heart and the Self. Bhagavan often made the point that although the spiritual effort is critical, one cannot go beyond a certain point with effort alone, and that Grace is needed. When asked, how could one obtain Grace, Sri Ramana would say that Grace is ever-existent and always there. One only needed to be aware of It. That is why Ramana Maharshi often brought attention to the nature of awareness and it's source, the Heart. This can be grasped at many different levels depending on the spiritual maturity of the aspirant. The fact that Self is Always Realized and that the Grace is always there can be meditated upon. So one makes the sincere effort, and then Grace takes over, some Power, the Power of the Self---that takes the mind and merges it in the Heart. The Heart is the magnet. The words of the Guru are Grace because they make the student alert and aware. When meditation is ripe, and all the effort that is possible has been made, through Grace, mind and Shakti are drawn to the Heart, and the Heart swallows up everything. That is the Supreme Silence beyond time and space. Sri Ramana used to say that there is no seeing it. There is only being It! Love to all Harsha ===== /join Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 4, 2004 Report Share Posted September 4, 2004 > there can be meditated upon. > > So one makes the sincere effort, and then Grace takes > over, some Power, the Power of the Self---that takes > the mind and merges it in the Heart. > > The Heart is the magnet. The words of the Guru are > Grace because they make the student alert and aware. > When meditation is ripe, and all the effort that is > possible has been made, through Grace, mind and Shakti > are drawn to the Heart, and the Heart swallows up > everything. That is the Supreme Silence beyond time > and space. > > Sri Ramana used to say that there is no seeing it. > There is only being It! > > Love to all > Harsha > Namaste H, This seems to me a reference to karma. One doesn't become realised until one is destined to be. The fruit drops when it is ripe and not before. For a thought that is projected into individuality ceases to exist when the sense of individuality is dropped. So Grace seems to be Karma playing like the sun behind the clouds..Always there, no time, not freewill, only the will of 'God', together with attitude and response to a situation.....ONS...Tony. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 4, 2004 Report Share Posted September 4, 2004 Grace is not karma. It is more like "when the conditions are right". There is no more destiny in this than there is in the seed sprouting when the earth, the sun, the rain, the temperature and the nutrients are in the right balance. Nothing the seed has done in its "past lives" contributes to its sprouting. Thank you. , "Tony OClery" <aoclery> wrote: > > there can be meditated upon. > > > > So one makes the sincere effort, and then Grace takes > > over, some Power, the Power of the Self---that takes > > the mind and merges it in the Heart. > > > > The Heart is the magnet. The words of the Guru are > > Grace because they make the student alert and aware. > > When meditation is ripe, and all the effort that is > > possible has been made, through Grace, mind and Shakti > > are drawn to the Heart, and the Heart swallows up > > everything. That is the Supreme Silence beyond time > > and space. > > > > Sri Ramana used to say that there is no seeing it. > > There is only being It! > > > > Love to all > > Harsha > > > Namaste H, > > This seems to me a reference to karma. One doesn't become realised > until one is destined to be. The fruit drops when it is ripe and not > before. For a thought that is projected into individuality ceases to > exist when the sense of individuality is dropped. > So Grace seems to be Karma playing like the sun behind the > clouds..Always there, no time, not freewill, only the will of 'God', > together with attitude and response to a situation.....ONS...Tony. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 4, 2004 Report Share Posted September 4, 2004 Tony wrote: > This seems to me a reference to karma. > One doesn't become realised > until one is destined to be. Realization of course can not be something that karmically happens. Realization is outside the illussive realm of 'realistically appearing' karmic events. In 'r e a l i t y' realization has no reference points to karma... In moksha one realizes to be free already, one sees and realizes that realization is not at all dependent on karmic dynamics... In a way you pointed at that not too long ago: it (karma) actually has not happened and is not happening. Stopping the wheel of karmic events and dynamics - realizing that in reality it actually didn't and does not take place - is what entails realization. It wouldn't be moksha if it were conditional upon karmic destination as you seem to say, it would be 'conditional freedom' or 'conditional liberation' and therefore it can not be moksha at all... One realizingly discovers or recovers this in grace... but again one realizes that also grace is NOT bound to karma. How could it be grace if it were?... > So Grace seems to be Karma playing like the sun behind the > clouds.. What you are introducing here is very close to a Calvinistic way of looking at salvation... not realization. Wim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 5, 2004 Report Share Posted September 5, 2004 beautiful! sri ramana was a walking, talking bhagavad-gita... "giving up all other dharmas, come to Me alone for shelter. I shall release you from all sins, have no more fear." (bhagavad-gita, 18:66) , Harsha wrote: > Sri Ramana used to say that either one has to inquire > steadfastly about the arising of the aham vritti (the > "I" thought--the feeling awareness of I AM) or > surrender entirely to the Guru that is one's own Self, > the very Heart of one's existence. In either approach, > the pure ego, the sense of identity, the "I" ness > merges in the Heart and the Self. > > Bhagavan often made the point that although the > spiritual effort is critical, one cannot go beyond a > certain point with effort alone, and that Grace is > needed. When asked, how could one obtain Grace, Sri > Ramana would say that Grace is ever-existent and > always there. One only needed to be aware of It. That > is why Ramana Maharshi often brought attention to the > nature of awareness and it's source, the Heart. This > can be grasped at many different levels depending on > the spiritual maturity of the aspirant. The fact that > Self is Always Realized and that the Grace is always > there can be meditated upon. > > So one makes the sincere effort, and then Grace takes > over, some Power, the Power of the Self---that takes > the mind and merges it in the Heart. > > The Heart is the magnet. The words of the Guru are > Grace because they make the student alert and aware. > When meditation is ripe, and all the effort that is > possible has been made, through Grace, mind and Shakti > are drawn to the Heart, and the Heart swallows up > everything. That is the Supreme Silence beyond time > and space. > > Sri Ramana used to say that there is no seeing it. > There is only being It! > > Love to all > Harsha > > > > > ===== > /join > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 5, 2004 Report Share Posted September 5, 2004 RamanaMaharshi, Harsha <harshaimtm> wrote: > So one makes the sincere effort, and then Grace takes > over, some Power, the Power of the Self---that takes > the mind and merges it in the Heart. > > The Heart is the magnet. The words of the Guru are > Grace because they make the student alert and aware. > When meditation is ripe, and all the effort that is > possible has been made, through Grace, mind and Shakti > are drawn to the Heart, and the Heart swallows up > everything. That is the Supreme Silence beyond time > and space. > > Sri Ramana used to say that there is no seeing it. > There is only being It! > > Love to all > Harsha Namaste H, Grace is Sakti is Karma. Why? Because karma or sadhana/purification is necessary for moksha. When one has a purified Buddhi the act of grace is actually IMO the destruction of the 'I' formed by the projection of Saguna, in the first place. As Jesus said, 'the way to the Father is through me', He was talking as the Son or Sakti here. So one becomes the Sakti simultaneously as Moksha arises, until the body drops then even the residual is gone in favour of Nirguna..........ONS...Tony.IMO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 5, 2004 Report Share Posted September 5, 2004 RamanaMaharshi, "Tony OClery" <aoclery> wrote: > RamanaMaharshi, Harsha <harshaimtm> > wrote: > > > So one makes the sincere effort, and then Grace takes > > over, some Power, the Power of the Self---that takes > > the mind and merges it in the Heart. > > > > The Heart is the magnet. The words of the Guru are > > Grace because they make the student alert and aware. > > When meditation is ripe, and all the effort that is > > possible has been made, through Grace, mind and Shakti > > are drawn to the Heart, and the Heart swallows up > > everything. That is the Supreme Silence beyond time > > and space. > > > > Sri Ramana used to say that there is no seeing it. > > There is only being It! > > > > Love to all > > Harsha > > Namaste H, > > Grace is Sakti is Karma. Why? Because karma or sadhana/purification > is necessary for moksha. When one has a purified Buddhi the act of > grace is actually IMO the destruction of the 'I' formed by the > projection of Saguna, in the first place. > > As Jesus said, 'the way to the Father is through me', He was talking > as the Son or Sakti here. So one becomes the Sakti simultaneously as > Moksha arises, until the body drops then even the residual is gone > in favour of Nirguna..........ONS...Tony.IMO Namaste, Namaste, Ramana in 'Be as you are', on p 111. Says the following. 'That which is; is only Grace, there is nothing else'. 'God, Grace and Guru are all synomymous;' p108. IMO this is all referring to Sakti or Saguna Brahman. In creation there can only be prana and karma. Hence everything is Grace, Prana and Karma. One arrives at Moksha due to one's karmic efforts, one cannot be realised without a purified Buddhi or antahkarana. Therefore one is brought to the edge of Moksha by Karma or Grace. Is not Karma Grace in action? I see no diferentiation since it is all a projection of Brahman anyway............ONS...Tony. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 6, 2004 Report Share Posted September 6, 2004 dearest Harshaji: this is written so clearly, so beautifully, so breathtakingly simple. this Is as silence speaks. All of it, including: "The Heart is the magnet.... the Heart swallows up everything. That is the Supreme Silence beyond time and space." thank you, thank you, thank you. namaste, --josie-- , Harsha wrote: > Sri Ramana used to say that either one has to inquire > steadfastly about the arising of the aham vritti (the > "I" thought--the feeling awareness of I AM) or > surrender entirely to the Guru that is one's own Self, > the very Heart of one's existence. In either approach, > the pure ego, the sense of identity, the "I" ness > merges in the Heart and the Self. > > Bhagavan often made the point that although the > spiritual effort is critical, one cannot go beyond a > certain point with effort alone, and that Grace is > needed. When asked, how could one obtain Grace, Sri > Ramana would say that Grace is ever-existent and > always there. One only needed to be aware of It. That > is why Ramana Maharshi often brought attention to the > nature of awareness and it's source, the Heart. This > can be grasped at many different levels depending on > the spiritual maturity of the aspirant. The fact that > Self is Always Realized and that the Grace is always > there can be meditated upon. > > So one makes the sincere effort, and then Grace takes > over, some Power, the Power of the Self---that takes > the mind and merges it in the Heart. > > The Heart is the magnet. The words of the Guru are > Grace because they make the student alert and aware. > When meditation is ripe, and all the effort that is > possible has been made, through Grace, mind and Shakti > are drawn to the Heart, and the Heart swallows up > everything. That is the Supreme Silence beyond time > and space. > > Sri Ramana used to say that there is no seeing it. > There is only being It! > > Love to all > Harsha > > > > > ===== > /join > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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