Guest guest Posted September 5, 2004 Report Share Posted September 5, 2004 Namaste, Ramana in 'Be as you are', on p 111. Says the following. 'That which is; is only Grace, there is nothing else'. 'God, Grace and Guru are all synomymous;' p108. IMO this is all referring to Sakti or Saguna Brahman. In creation there can only be prana and karma. Hence everything is Grace, Prana and Karma. One arrives at Moksha due to one's karmic efforts, one cannot be realised without a purified Buddhi or antahkarana. Therefore one is brought to the edge of Moksha by Karma or Grace. Is not Karma Grace in action? I see no diferentiation since it is all a projection of Brahman anyway............ONS...Tony. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 5, 2004 Report Share Posted September 5, 2004 Dear Tony, Would it not have been more appropriate to have called your post "Tony's understanding of Grace as compared to Ramana's definition?" It seems to me that Ramana's words are defined and astute enough to not warrant any extra interpretation, substitution of meaning or additional meaning. He knew how to be succinct. 'That which is, is only Grace; there is nothing else'. 'God, Grace and Guru are all synomymous;' Those are Ramana's words, when one understands them fully, one recognizes them, and if needed one applies and lives them. When that is the case the need to interpret them or to put them into your own words, is not there, they speak for Ramana, they speak for themselves and one hopes they speak directly speak to the reader or listener... Very often one notices that when words do not directly speak to a listener or reader that they will interpret them and comment on them either to show their disagreement or to bend the original meaning to such an extent that they express what the listener thinks they mean. In the last case the listener thinks that their undertanding matches the meaning of the original words, while in fact there are great discrepancies. As we know, such has happened to the Buddha's words, Jesus's words and many other a sage's wisdom. The reader or listener uses a kind of 'Search and Replace' operation to make the original sentence mean what he or she can understand or wants it to mean... If Ramana would have have intended what he said to mean something else he would have said something else... Why the need to do a 'Search and Replace', substituting or superimposing personal understandings into or on Ramana's words? In a master/disciple relationship a master does not say what the disciple wants to hear, a master would like the disciple to hear what is being said without any mental editing. "He who has ears to hear, let him hear." ~Jesus Look at the complexity of your paragraphs and the simplicity of Ramana's wisdom: 'That which is, is only Grace; there is nothing else'. 'God, Grace and Guru are all synomymous;' > IMO this is all referring to Sakti or Saguna Brahman. In creation > there can only be prana and karma. Hence everything is Grace, Prana > and Karma. One arrives at Moksha due to one's karmic efforts, one > cannot be realised without a purified Buddhi or antahkarana. > Therefore one is brought to the edge of Moksha by Karma or Grace. > Is not Karma Grace in action? I see no diferentiation since it is > all a projection of Brahman anyway............ONS...Tony. Wim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 6, 2004 Report Share Posted September 6, 2004 Om Namo Bhagavathe Sri Ramanaaya Indeed, Wim. Sri Bhagavan's words are self-explanatory, and no interpretation or 'purports' are needed. anbudan, John Siva--Siva , "Wim" <wim_borsboom> wrote: > Dear Tony, > > Would it not have been more appropriate to have called your > post "Tony's understanding of Grace as compared to Ramana's > definition?" > It seems to me that Ramana's words are defined and astute enough to > not warrant any extra interpretation, substitution of meaning or > additional meaning. He knew how to be succinct. > > 'That which is, is only Grace; there is nothing else'. > > 'God, Grace and Guru are all synomymous;' > > Those are Ramana's words, when one understands them fully, one > recognizes them, and if needed one applies and lives them. > When that is the case the need to interpret them or to put them into > your own words, is not there, they speak for Ramana, they speak for > themselves and one hopes they speak directly speak to the reader or > listener... > .....a purified Buddhi or antahkarana. > > Therefore one is brought to the edge of Moksha by Karma or Grace. > > Is not Karma Grace in action? I see no diferentiation since it is > > all a projection of Brahman anyway............ONS...Tony. > > Wim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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