Guest guest Posted September 8, 2004 Report Share Posted September 8, 2004 Dear ZenBob i agree with your message completely but question remains and i put it forward to you and the Sangha FREE CHOICE somewhere SADGURU RAMANA MAHARSHI is quoted as having said: a) when you enter a railway you do not leave the baggage on your back but you put it down so please surrender to GD and put all your troubles in GDS hand a message like this i got many times walkingmeditating b) what has to come comes you cannot do anything about it what is not allowed to come does not come whatever you do your only choice of "free will" is to decide from moment to moment if you identify with that what mind creates in the outside or if you identify only with that what you really are the shind light of the SELF this touched me so much because it is in my humble opinion TRUE authentic c) blessed are those who start to stop identifying with that what mind creates outside and begin to identify only with what they really are inside the shining light of SELF Dear ZenBob is there a contradiction between what i just wrote and feel to be "ok" and that what you wrote below??? AWAITING YOUR ESTEEMED ANSWER in GD i am michael >zen2wrk > > >Re: Grace and Ramana's definition. >Tue, 7 Sep 2004 22:41:35 EDT > > > > >Tony: > >For your sake, I will dissect each of your comments thoroughly, lovingly >and >with nothing but grace guiding my comments... > > > >In a message dated 9/6/2004 12:58:49 PM Pacific Daylight Time, >aoclery writes: > >Again I do not believe that Grace or Saguna gives freebees to >unpurified buddhis. >Your "belief" is of no consequence in this matter. The manifest examples >of >millions are enough to render any solitary person's beliefs moot or >superfluous. In actual fact, this thing called "Grace" that you so >totally miscast >and misunderstand does EXACTLY what you seem to be trying to refute. It >is >not up to you or I to determine any other soul's relative merit or >worthiness. >Any belief system that deterministically assigns any person or soul to a >mechanistic Caste incapable of other than slow ponderous spiritual >progress >unless they have done such and such, or studied with Sri >MustabeenabigWannabeeYogi >is a bankrupt view of the universe, the subtle mystery of the Divine and >something of a pathetic bit of rule-bound thinking on your part. Grace >takes >supreme delight in surprise and in granting the eloquent touch of God's >Love >on those both deserving and those we might hardly imagine deserving in >amillion lifetimes. The magical part, tony, is that this lowly soul, >undeserving, >even not in the act of seeking, once touched, is elevated far above its >lowly >state, is given spiritual wings to rise above its own petty limitations >and >in so being filled with the divine Elixir, shares this with others with a >humility and purity that many "hard working, yoga practicing gurus cannot >match." > > > > > > >Yes I stir with a child's present but this is >not Grace this is emotionalism, or indulging a 'feeling', another >attachment to this plane and construct called body/mind. >This is the necessary first tiny steps twoard grace...finding humility and >charm in the simplest act of kindness or charity...and this is not >"indulging >a feeling" this is partaking of the essence of the divine spirit...which >is >unselfish love...we should all indulge in that, Tony, rather than seek to >rise >above it with overconfident intellectualism... > > > >The Divine >peels away layers through the action of karma. The creation in total >is like an alarm clock that you wind up and it runs by itself. That >is how the universe runs--------action reaction. >Are you quoting the Gita here? LOL This is not even scripturally correct >from either a Hindu or Christian dogma. This is sort of >neo-existentialism >colliding with nihilism. Do you think that you wound up the alarm clock >of the >universe? Do you think it all unfolds like a Calvinistic train down a >predetermined track? If so, then you are simply a Calvinist and do not >belong on >this list, do not belong to any Hindu or modern Christian sect that >believe >that individuals, though Karmically bound by their ACTIONS, nonetheless >have >freedom of ACTION. That is the same as freewill, and it cuts a divide >right >through your deterministic universe. It also is the key to self >liberation. >Choice. Action. Acting to anticipate the fruits of Karma by planting the >seeds of Dharma and Bhakti in advance because some of us can see where >things >might lead. Might lead. Not must lead. Oh, and action reaction, if you >know your physics is bound on the smallest of scales to an underlying >nature of >pure random chaos...not deterministic Newtonian "action reaction." It >only >appears that way at the gross surface level, but at a nuclear or >sub-atomic >level, it is all pure random chaos...which is why the very same rocket may >fly >right one day, and explode the next. Violent turbulent chaos renders the >most sublime and detailed calculations of scientists mere useless >enumerations >in the face of a non-deterministic universe. And, Tony, Quantum physics >and >thermodynamics are the major subjects I cut my teeth with, so save >yourself >an argument in these areas. Your view is hopelessly outdated, and a >simple >device such as a Tunneling Diode (A quantum device) not only suggests your >error of thinking, it proves it to be falacious and even cruel at the same > time. > > > >Sadhana is >necessary to rise and realise that all is one and in fact didn't >happen at all...........ONS...Tony. > > > > >Now, we all are confused? What didn't happen at all? Your rebuttal? Your >ideas? Having emotion? Feeling anything? This discussion? My reply? >THis >Satsangh? This universe? Of course, this universe never happened at all, >and >you didn't get all confused and wrapped up in a dead end philophy, >either. >There. Happy? > >Love, > >And a big hug, > >Zenbob > > > > > > _______________ STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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