Energy surges-Kundalini-Prana.

October 4, 2004

Dear Jill:

It's good to have you sharing again with the sangha. I recall many

discussions on Kundalini manifestations that took place in the early years.

One thing that we notice is that manifestations, while they have certain

common elements, are also unique to individuals.

Mantra, pranayama, meditations, and most spiritual practices, work on either

consciously or unconsciously awakening the Shakti.

Initial physical manifestations included electric charges running through

the spine or the body, being unable to move in meditation, being lifted up

and thrown from your meditation position, involuntary movements or kriyas.

In some people the kriyas take place in lucid dreams where a person finds

himself or herself performing complex yoga positions they could not do in

real life!

Psychological manifestations include fear, anxiety, feeling of doom, feeling

of being out of control, not being able to see the end of the tunnel so to

speak. Kundalini is also the huge power of the unconscious and when it

becomes active, many things buried start pressing on the small conscious

mind which is not quickly able to assimilate the contents which are so dense

and manifest symbolically.

These are complex topics and probably the best thing is to be in a spiritual

community where people can understand such things and be supportive.

Adequate nourishment, water, and the will to see it through, even if takes

years, is helpful.

I know a wonderful person, a professor in Canada, who I believe was also

practicing TM when he started experiencing with such things. He had a

difficult time for some years and even sought out professional help from a

psychologist who understood the Kundalini phenomena. things. Now after many

many years, he is very successful and well adjusted. Everyone's path to

integrating is different.

In the Indian yogic traditions, the teacher or guru is the guide, and so the

personal experience of the teacher can be helpful to the student to place

things in proper context.

Love to all

Harsha

-

"Jill Eggers" <eggersj

<>

Thursday, October 21, 2004 6:29 PM

Re: Re: Energy

surges-Kundalini-Prana.

Hello Tony and all,

Funny thing about mantra is it does, in fact, possess power whether

one is 'believing' in it or repeating with only the attention and

cognition of a big parrot. The power of mantra and relation of sound

to matter remains such a mysterious experience to me.

I had a 20 year daily practice of mantra meditation before the

awakening of kundalini. After the kundalini became active, the mantra

I had used in meditation began to repeat itself within me

automatically, day and night, much of the time, for several years.

Sometimes this would abate for a while. The mantras changed, too, over

time. Sometimes a new seed mantra appears and repeats itself during

part of each day, or during certain times, for a few months or more.

Sometimes it is a longer, more complicated sanskrit mantra or song that

appears. It's such a mystery. I suppose the mantra needed by the

system shows up and does its work, then moves on. For about the first

4 years of kundalini, the mantra OM roared in the head hundreds of

times a day. I remember when this started, being on an elevator at

work, thinking, 'what the hell?', (or something gentler and more

profound, to that effect ), as I listened to this world of mantra

roaring along with the complex actions of kriyas that went on each day.

After a while, it became quieter and less frequent. but still remains

a daily occurrence.

After a while I figured out that the mantra OM was manifesting when

there was a clearing or cleansing in the system of some sort, or an

opening of spirit in or out of matter in some way--in me, or around me.

That is, I noticed that OM manifests when something moves and clears

within the body/mind, and that OM manifests at the birth or death of

any creature. I take care of a lot of hurt birds, and once I heard the

inner subtle OM sound when a robin I was holding died. Shortly after

that, I noticed it with a crow that died. Despite many years of

meditation practice, part of me had always thought the mantra was a

symbol sound, and meaning sound, until my experience showed me that it

has integrity and power regardless of the understanding of the hearer

or repeater of the sound. What an amazing thing that was, to begin to

understand the embedded world of mantra within the manifest world.

Jill

October 4, 2004

Dear Tony,

Much of what you have to say is worth considering as it is based on your

experience, at least in some part, but it comes across as judgmental.

How Kundalini Shakti operates in people differs considerably on a wide range

of factors.

It does not matter what words are used, prana, kundalini, nadis etc.

Unless, you have both the experience of Kundalini rising from the muladhara

to the Sahasarara and then coming down from the Sahasarara (brain) to the

Spiritual Heart, through Amrit Nadi, and then going back up to the brain so

the world becomes visible, there is no point in making general statements.

Sri Ramana has said that a yogi (after Shakti reaches Sahasarara), by grace,

brings it down to the Heart for Self-Realization. So we see that practice of

yoga and mediation and Japa, and self-inquiry more directly, all these lead

gradually to the same place.

In any case, the Heart is everywhere. The location is only fixed as long as

the mind perceives itself separate from the Heart.

Heart is only the Self, pure consciousness devoid of images, thoughts, etc.

We are that pure consciousness even now.

Love to all

Harsha

-

"Tony OClery" <aoclery

<>

Monday, October 04, 2004 12:45 PM

Re: Energy surges-Kundalini-Prana.

> Namaste,

>

> Ramana and others say that if one just repeats the mantra it is

> ineffective; one has to be emotionally involved with it. The Vedic

> sounds of a mantra have to be concentrated on, so rote is

> impossible, if one is doing it properly. If I had a penny for each

> time I heard the Gayatri chanted incorrectly, I would be a rich man.

> The sound of OM/AUM of course is within manifestation and is not

> Liberation itself. Sakti is not the energy per se but Saguna Brahman

> that projects it.

>

> I know to many, my opinions on Kundalini are somewhat different.

> That is because IMO 99%+ of so called Kundalini-Prana isn't! One has

> to identify if one is 'experiencing' the cleansing prana, for K of

> course is everything as, the Universal Mind. So K-Prana is a

> Spiritual event.

>

> 1.There are the movements of energy impulses at the biological

> nerve level, and this may be due to any physical condition;

> arthritis, pinched nerves, spine problems, psychosomatic etc etc.

>

> 2.There is the movement of prana in the nadis, that may not be

> necessarily in the Sushumna. Acu-puncture type movements of energy

> can take place and this may not be K-Prana. These may seem to be

> spontaneous and out of control, and painful.

>

> The five pranas or modes are quite complicated to the uninitiated.

> Without going into them to deepy, they are involved in breathing,

> and expulsion and sometime it seems they get out of sync. Badly

> performed pranayama can cause this as well.

>

> When a person is dying there is a feeling of a need to defecate, for

> this is the prana starting to leave. A good example is my best

> childhood friend died a few months ago, of a heart attack. He felt

> an urge to defecate so he went upstairs to the toilet and took a

> book with him. His wife found him some time later leaning against

> the wall, book on his knee and dead as a doornail!--a heart attack!

>

> Kundalini being the Universal Mind is everything and doesn't make

> random mistakes IMO, in stimulating the cleansing of the kosas or

> sheaths. The nadis and sushumna, (the tunnel of light), are after

> all only concepts and constructs to describe the connectors of the

> body to the kosas. A person not on the spiritual path is not going

> to be subconsciously cleansing their vijnanamayakosa are they? There

> has to be a trigger!!!

>

> Finally as Sarada Devi says, Japa will raise the true Kundalini-

> Prana, perhaps even emperceptibly. IMO opinion if one has a true K

> experience happening it is more important to pay attention to their

> behaviour not the experiences. If one isn't becoming more spiritual,

> following a sadhana, becoming vegetarian for example, and in fact

> becoming a Sadhaka, in some form.

>

> Finally one has to take into account that Lakshmana Swami says the K

> goes straight from the Heart to the Brain, and not from the

> Muladhara. This indicates to me that pranas may or may not be of a

> spiritual nature. i.e cleansing or otherwise.

>

> The yardstick to me though is that a person become more the

> spiritual, less attached to the world and its sensual activities and

> pleasures. That is the difference between the pranas and kundalini-

> prana..........ONS..Tony.

>

October 4, 2004

-

"Tony OClery" <aoclery

<>

Monday, October 04, 2004 6:47 PM

Re: Energy surges-Kundalini-Prana.

> As Lakshmana Swamy says prana raised to the sahasrara may result in

> some increase in siddhis but that is all. IMO it will not go down

> the amrita nadi to the 'Heart', if the vijnanamayakosa isn't

> cleansed of its vasanas and samskaras. So if it cannot do that, it

> begs the question doesn't it?

***********************************

You are certainly entitled to your opinion Tony.

The mind need not be completely free of vasanas and samskaras to merge in

the Heart.

If that was true, how would one gain direct knowledge of the Heart?

In the beginning, the vasanas and samaskras are suppressed through devotion,

meditation, and Grace of Bhagavan for direct knowledge of the Heart.

If it was not for Grace, it would not be possible, because no one is free of

vasanas, as that is the nature of the mind and the body.

In fact, mind becoming one with the Heart, and then coming out knows its own

nature.

Only then vasanas are seen for what they are and one becomes nonjudgmental

towards these.

Who is Lakshmana Swamy's Guru? Is it not Sri Ramana?

Sri Ramana has spoken about Kundalini Shakti and the Heart.

There are many ways to look at all this so need to be rigid.

Love to all

Harsha

October 4, 2004

Dear Era

holding the underworld down with the

left hand and plugging into the

sky with the right one

and I'M THANKFUL FOR BEING ABLE TO DO SO

a) thankfulness

in my experiences was this a first step to realize GRACE

i am thankful

specially for the darkest hours of this and other lifes

the hours where i fought with GD unconsciously not understanding anything

anymore

dearest One

BE AWARE PLEASE HARD HARD HARD STUFF NOW

i was conceived when my parents jews from Vienna austria prepared their

escape from nazi austria

endured the fear of mum to survive in her belly the exodus till arriving in

haifa palestine enduring the suiced of 3000 people in the boat before their

boat because the british did not let them lend in Haifa and consciusly

enduring the impression of knowing that 1.5 million jewish children have

been murdered by evil doing and i not being worth even being murdered and

so on and so on

and even this i learned to accept as "my" vehicle to reach GD

by GRACE the conviction that GD exists in inbedded in "my genes" even the

parents being nonbelievers and mum even resisting GD in everything because

of the Holocaust

why i tell this old story

first because nowadays everything what happened starts to happen again in

this world

and more important

because my means of salvation was to accept all this - terrible dear one -

by accepting that everything we experience is nothing but a dream

accepting the the "real thing" is GD LOVE

and thru GRACE i encountered my wife and RAMANA

THANKFULNESS IS MY ANSWER TO ALL WHATS GOING ON

i hope this helps you somehow

holding the underworld down with the

left hand and plugging into the

sky with the right one

what dear Harsha sent us is a wonderful tool

its real magic

left hand down to let go everything into earth

right hand up to reach the sky heaven

remember maybe TAROT Rider Waite the magician........

heal yourself by accepting yourself

as you are

in GD i AM

michael

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October 5, 2004

Every word one utters with intention has power.

Be it good or bad. As long as a word is carried with intent.

That's why most religion stress that. Especially when the

kundalini is awakened. Words are extrememly powerful.

Autobiography of a Yogi by Yogananda

I recommened everyone to read this. It could prove

very insightful.

Love

>"Era" <mi_nok

>

> Re: Energy surges-Kundalini-Prana.

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>Eggers <eggersj@g...> wrote:

>

> > Hello Tony and all,

> >

> > Funny thing about mantra is it does, in fact, possess power whether

> > one is 'believing' in it or repeating with only the attention and

> > cognition of a big parrot. The power of mantra and relation of sound

> > to matter remains such a mysterious experience to me.

> >

> > I had a 20 year daily practice of mantra meditation before the

> > awakening of kundalini. After the kundalini became active, the mantra

> > I had used in meditation began to repeat itself within me

> > automatically, day and night, much of the time, for several years.

>

>yes, me too: automatically, day and night

>

>I got a mantra of 5, the last of it

>was: Sat Nam*, but this was given to

>me before my initiation by Yogy Bhajan

> before my initiation into the Om,

>the Naam: the primal sound of creation

>

>*truth is my name (identity)

>

> > Sometimes this would abate for a while. The mantras changed, too, over

> > time. Sometimes a new seed mantra appears and repeats itself during

> > part of each day, or during certain times, for a few months or more.

> > Sometimes it is a longer, more complicated sanskrit mantra or song that

> > appears. It's such a mystery. I suppose the mantra needed by the

> > system shows up and does its work, then moves on. For about the first

> > 4 years of kundalini, the mantra OM roared in the head hundreds of

> > times a day. I remember when this started, being on an elevator at

> > work, thinking, 'what the hell?', (or something gentler and more

> > profound, to that effect ), as I listened to this world of mantra

> > roaring along with the complex actions of kriyas that went on each day.

>

>yes, movements..

>

> > After a while, it became quieter and less frequent. but still remains

> > a daily occurrence.

> >

> > After a while I figured out that the mantra OM was manifesting when

> > there was a clearing or cleansing

>

> > YES! the OM: the Word in the Bible,

>[in the beginning there was the *"Word"

> and the Word was God...]

>

>--it is ever cleansing: it is the ONLY

> cleansing pure primal energy

>

>* word

>

>in the system of some sort, or an

> > opening of spirit in or out of matter in some way--in me, or around me.

> > That is, I noticed that OM manifests when something moves and clears

> > within the body/mind, and that OM manifests at the birth or death of

> > any creature. I take care of a lot of hurt birds, and once I heard the

> > inner subtle OM sound when a robin I was holding died. Shortly after

> > that, I noticed it with a crow that died. Despite many years of

> > meditation practice, part of me had always thought the mantra was a

> > symbol sound, and meaning sound, until my experience showed me that it

> > has integrity and power regardless of the understanding of the hearer

> > or repeater of the sound. What an amazing thing that was, to begin to

> > understand the embedded world of mantra within the manifest world.

> >

> > Jill

> >

>

> namaste, Era

>

> >

> > On Oct 2, 2004, at 4:53 PM, Tony OClery wrote:

> > > Namaste,

> > >

> > > Doing Japa isn't just a rote rosary, as many people do. Each single

> > > mantra repeated has to have a definate feeling of the mantra.

> > > Otherwise one is just a 150 lb parrot.

> > >

> > > If Kundalini-Prana is manifesting then it is the Universal Mind, we

> > > hardly know better than She. As I said spiritual seekers have big

> > > egos, bigger than ordinary folk. Partly due to paying attention to

> > > the 'Thief in the Palace'.

> > >

> > > I cannot believe that turning within properly can have a deleterious

> > > effect with kundalini-prana. If it does then IMO this is just one of

> > > the five pranas randomly acting in the system of nadis and not

> > > Kundalini-Prana. This is a common mistake amongst people who

> > > essentially are not sadhakas........ONS...Tony.

>

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October 19, 2004

Hello Era and all,

Era, I have been following this thread of your experience a little bit.

I want to offer an opinion opposite Tony's. I would suggest not doing

any japa or meditation at all.

I had a kundalini awakening 12 years ago. The energy went through the

crown chakra on about the 3rd day of its activity, during meditation.

I experienced initially many of the movements you are describing, of

energy moving through the system night and day, accompanied by twisting

and movement in the body as the force met with blocks. Some of this

was very painful, and some of it produced blissful or ecstatic states

when the energy cleared an area or moved in the head.

Those energy movements were just the beginning of a very long and

challenging journey, however. There has not been a day in the past 12

years that the kundalini has not been active in working with the

physical, psychological, emotional body, or other aspects of self,

which I think Tony has a better grasp of describing, when he described

the sheaths in an earlier email.

Like some others who have written on this and other lists about

kundalini, I experienced the energy going too fast, doing its work, for

many years, at a pace that was difficult for the body/mind to

withstand. I appreciate the points made by Wim and Tony, that there is

perhaps no such thing as a premature awakening, and that the energy

should be accepted and supported. But part of that acceptance and

support means taking an active, compassionate role toward yourself,

your body, and this experience, and learning what gets the kundalini

going too much, and what practices allow you to remain functional while

you integrate this energy, and to keep pain and dysfunction to a

minimum.

As you have found out, japa increases the activity and will speed up

the kundalini activity. I found japa would really get the kundalini

going, and eventually I had to stop doing it entirely, or I would lose

consciousness and fall down and have a difficult time getting back into

a functional state. In addition to the immediate effects, japa or

meditation also speeded up the whole process of cleansing and changes

to a level that I could not manage, producing intense physical symptoms

as well as states of free-floating fear and anxiety and a host of other

symptoms. I found my work with kundalini to include finding practices

to slow it and ground it, and to be centered in accepting the charge of

being human and physical; in learning to integrate the growth in

consciousness brought about by the active kundalini with the demands

and responsibilities of a full humanity.

Jerry, another member of this list, and I, are two of the people here

who have struggled over the years to find ways to work with demanding

kundalini experiences and still be able to eat, think, keep alive,

work, and sometimes, play the piano, make a garden, or take the dog for

a run in the woods. Part of that effort has included learning things

that will ground the energy--foods to eat, daily routines to follow

(like Michael's suggestion to take long walks), and other practices. I

think I can speak for Jerry in saying that either of us would be happy

to describe the practices that worked well for us if you want more

information along those lines.

I hope this is of some use.

Jill

On Oct 1, 2004, at 12:19 PM, Tony OClery wrote:

> , "Era" <mi_nok> wrote:

> > , "Tony OClery"

> <aoclery> wrote:

> > > Namaste All,> > is through prayer or japa/rosary.

> >

> > no can do: any attention just

> > amplyfies it and its torked to the

> > right, my head tilts to the right

> > with it and the left side of my neck

> > feels like will burst open

> >

>

> Namaste E,IMO,

>

> It is probably a little late to wait until the surges occur.

>

> One should be doing meditation and japa/rosary either constantly in

> the back of one's mind or doing meditation before retiring to bed.

> It is wise to meditate at a similar time everyday. A few minutes

> will do. I used to do the corpse pose and grab meditation at work

> during the day sometimes. This pose has the benefit of easily de-

> energising the muscles, so there is no tension.

>

> You say 3 am used to be your usual meditation time. Yes, this is the

> Brahma Murtha and advised for spiritual seekers. Unfortunately most

> of us work and cannot meet this schedule in many cases. However if

> you are used to meditating at this time, then 'God' is looking for

> the appointment. You may have to change the regular appointment

> time, then the energy will be absorbed/transmuted into the normal

> meditation.

>

> There are only two ways of getting help, either from a Realised

> Master/Mukti or from your own Inner Self, which amounts to the same

> thing.

> The other problem to avoid, as I mentioned in my original post, is

> psychological and psychosomatic, due to not enough Spiritual

> Direction.

> It may require intense prayer and meditation/japa for a while, but

> the answer truly lies 'within'. Which is the only advice I can give,

> as I am not a Jivanmukta or Realised Master.............ONS...Tony.

>

> /join

>

> "Love itself is the actual form of God."

>

> Sri Ramana

>

> In "Letters from Sri Ramanasramam" by Suri Nagamma

>

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>

October 20, 2004

Hi Wim,

Yes, it is a long time. How have you been?

I don't remember what you wrote about 960 days, and the path of k back

to square one. What do you mean by that?

Good to hear from you, Wim.

Best,

Jill

On Oct 1, 2004, at 9:26 PM, Wim wrote:

> Hello Jill,

>

> A long time ago isn't it, that we were writing to each other?!

> Actually yesterday I had the occasion to go through Harhsa's archives

> in search for something else and many a time I saw your name and

> messages jumping out at me... How are you?

>

> About premature K. awakening I think we have to be firm on this, it is

> imposssible... About the speed with which we handle the workings of it

> I love your approach. You may remember years ago that I found out how

> long it takes for kundalini to take to get us back to square one...

> (!)

> Remember 960 days plus 40 plus 12... but it can be spread out over

> many many years... what you write is really a good example of that

> very judicious approach...

>

> Anyway, I gotto leave... but I started quite an email that I hope I

> can finish later and send...

>

> Wim

>

> /join

>

> "Love itself is the actual form of God."

>

> Sri Ramana

>

> In "Letters from Sri Ramanasramam" by Suri Nagamma

>

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>

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>

October 21, 2004