MAHARSHI interview with Ramani Ammal

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THE MAHARSHI

July / August 1993Vol. 3 - No. 3

Produced & Edited byDennis HartelDr. Anil K. Sharma

An Interview with Rajapalayam Ramani Ammal

She carries herself with a special dignity, born from the peace of

deep devotion. This is what we feel when Ramani Ammal walks past us

at Sri Ramanasramam. The spiritual aspirations which consumed her

since her childhood have blossomed into a graceful flower of virtue

and self poise. In this interview, videotaped in December of 1989,

she briefly told us her life story.

Questioner: Please tell us about how you first came to Ramanasramam.

Ramani Ammal: My chosen deity in childhood was Lord Krishna. From my

youth I had very pleasant dreams and would sometimes see Lord Krishna

or other familiar deities in these dreams. But at the age of sixteen

or seventeen I once saw a strange sage-like person coming down a hill

and was captivated by his grandeur. I later came to realize that this

sage was Sri Bhagavan.

After having that vision of Bhagavan in my dream, a certain fear that

had gripped me for some time all of a sudden disappeared. My

relatives and others noticed this and commented how I was now moving

about freely. This was Bhagavan's first influence on me.

Also, at the age of sixteen I was reading the Jnana Vasishta. While

reading it I experienced that I was enveloped in jyoti, a bright

white light. I thought that if this is what happens just by reading

it, how much more wonderful would it be if we practised dhyana and

the other spiritual injunctions taught in the book. I used to be

thrilled simply by reading those ancient Tamil scriptures. But it

wasn't until I was twenty before I got hold of a book on Bhagavan.

Kumaraswami Raja, the Chief Minister of Madras, who was a cousin of

mine, brought me Bharati's biography of Bhagavan, Ramana Vijayam, in

1946. Mrs. Kumaraswami Raja was very fond of me, and though other

relatives prohibited me from reading spiritual books, she used to

stealthily supply me with them. The day she sent this book over with

a boy, I was sitting in the house with a friend, a headmistress, who

though Christian, was sincerely interested in our religion.

The boy who brought the book said, "Mami said to hand this book to

you." I got up and went up to the gate to receive it. The moment I

touched the book I lost body consciousness. My whole body became

stiff. I somehow managed to return and sit next to my friend.

Noticing my plight, she commented that I shouldn't read such books

that make me forget myself. Everyone was complaining about this same

thing, for in those days most of the time I would be sitting quietly,

alert to my spiritual aspirations. All thought that I was simply idle

with no work to do.

With difficulty I opened Ramana Vijayam to the first page and was met

by the photo of the young Ramana. I became speechless. My friend, who

was somewhat alarmed at my condition, had to leave and I somehow saw

her off. With great reverence I took the book and started reading it.

As I read, my eyes kept closing involuntarily, and I was drawn within,

which I later came to know was meditation. Bhagavan taught me

meditation in this way.

After reading this book, I felt I should leave home and go meet Ramana

Maharshi. It is my family custom that women never even leave the

house, not to mention leaving the town. That vairagya, or desperate

determination to leave my house for spiritual fulfilment, was

implanted in me by this book; and I am sure it was by the direct

influence of Sri Bhagavan himself.

Because of my intense desire to go and see Bhagavan, my younger

brother was moved to help me. He is a very pious person, with a soft

nature. With his help I secretly left home and reached Tiruvannamalai

and the holy feet of Sri Bhagavan. But after reaching there, I was

overcome with a sense of guilt for running away from home. This

feeling of guilt, and a sense of bringing ill fame to the respected

Rajagopalan family, was uppermost in my mind when I first came into

Bhagavan's presence. I felt depressed because of this.

When I arrived I went to the office to inquire where Bhagavan was. I

was told that Bhagavan was near the well. When I came near the well,

I saw a thatched shed next to it and all I could see in it was a

flaming fire. I thought to myself, "I asked for directions to go to

Bhagavan and they have sent me to a sacrificial place where there is

a fire." It was only after a few minutes that I saw Bhagavan's comely

form emerge from those flames. Even when I had the Jyoti Darshana I

was blaming myself, thinking that I had this delusion of seeing a

fire instead of Bhagavan because I was foolish enough to come out

into the hot sun. It was only afterwards I realized Bhagavan had

bestowed upon me this great boon of Jyoti Darshana. Next I heard

Bhagavan saying to me, "You have now come home. Why don't you sit

down?"

Coming from a family where women never go out, and having never gone

out myself, I did not know how to behave in company. When Bhagavan

said "You have now come home. You can sit down," I sat down right in

front of him and not in the place reserved for women. For three days

I kept sitting in front of him and all the while the feeling of guilt

for running away from home was haunting me. I kept sitting in front of

Bhagavan, not knowing how to act or ask questions, or anything else.

On the third day I heard Bhagavan telling someone: "I also ran away

from my home, and at the railroad station I was so frightened that

anyone could have identified me as a runaway, caught hold of me and

sent me home. I ran away like a thief." When Bhagavan narrated this,

it completely wiped out all my guilt feelings from that moment

onwards. This was an act of pure grace directed towards me. It is

very strange that by those few words Bhagavan entirely removed any

residual fear in me. Bhagavan later said that sometimes you have to

do a wrong thing to achieve the ultimate right thing. He even

commented that there is nothing wrong in a woman running away at the

tender age of twenty to come here.

I should narrate how my first Giri Pradakshina took place. I was not

accustomed to walking at all, but whenever people came to tell

Bhagavan that they were going on a Giri Pradakshina, I longed to go

too. One day Venkataramayya and others were going round the hill, and

in this group there were two devotees who were over eighty years old.

I did not say anything to Bhagavan, but was all the time praying that

I should be included in that party. Immediately Bhagavan said to

Venkataramayya "Take this girl - the one seated there - with you."

Bhagavan didn't stop there, for he even said, "She will walk very

slowly. Will that be all right?" Then Bhagavan turned towards me and

said, "These are our own people. Are you prepared to go with them?"

Looking at me, he simply said, "Go!"

The Pradakshina took almost six hours. At Adi Annamalai I could move

no more. I requested the group to proceed without me, and told them I

will reach the Ashram later. But they said, "How could we leave you

when Bhagavan entrusted you to us? Even if it takes you another day

to complete the Pradakshina, we will stay with you. Only with you can

we re-enter the Ashram."

I was again feeling very guilty when we finally arrived. I was

thinking that others take three to four hours to complete the

Pradakshina and I have taken six hours, wasting not only my time, but

theirs too. I felt that they were all older than me, and a younger

person, like me, had caused them so much inconvenience. When I

entered the Ashram my heart was heavy with this feeling. With great

difficulty we entered into the presence of Bhagavan and as soon as I

sat down, Bhagavan started narrating how the Pradakshina should be

done by walking as slow as a royal queen in her ninth month of

pregnancy. "So there is nothing wrong in what she did," he concluded.

After this, many times I used to go around the hill all alone.

I used to fast a lot in those days - almost fifteen days out of a

month. It was helping in my sadhana. One day, with the permission of

Chinnaswami, I stayed in the Ashram till 7:30 p.m., which is the

supper time. Bhagavan turned to me and said, "Aren't you coming for

supper?" Then he said, "Sattvic food should be eaten. There is no

meaning in mere fasting." Since then I stopped fasting. Even if I

wanted to fast, for some reason or other it would be broken. That is

a real wonder to me.

I was not aware of this Brahmin-non-Brahmin separation in the Dining

Hall. One day I entered and saw the screen dividing the seating area.

Some people were already seated. I was in a fix as to where I should

sit. Bhagavan saw my plight and asked me to sit right next to him. He

said to an attendant, "She doesn't know anything, so put her leaf

here." Then he said to me, "Don't worry about these Brahmins." That

is how Bhagavan in his kindness used to take care of me, for I was

all alone and ignorant of the customs and ways of the world. Since

Bhagavan was showering all this personal attention on me, Chinnaswami

also took a personal interest in my welfare. As Muruganar was away,

Chinnaswami offered me his residence to stay in, and also offered to

send someone to guard me. I told him that I was not afraid and would

lock the house from inside and needed no one to guard me. Bhagavan

overheard this and said, "She is a young girl, and does not know the

consequences. Let her sleep indoors, behind closed doors, but you

send a servant to sleep outside on the verandah." I did not know

anything when I came here. Even cooking I learned here and, of

course, Bhagavan taught me many things from within.

Interviewer: Since you used to sit in front of Bhagavan quite often,

could you please give a detailed description of what is called

'Bhagavan's Glance of Grace?'

Ramani Ammal: Bhagavan's look was real magic. You could not do

anything but just look into his eyes, which would transform you into

Samadhi. Everyone in the hall used to feel Bhagavan was looking at

them alone. This was the true experience of each one of us. In his

inimitable way he was giving the glance of grace to each and everyone

seated in the hall. Bhagavan's look used to take us deep into Samadhi.

Just by looking into his eyes, we came to know what meditation is.

This was, and is, the common experience of all devotees. You ask

anyone and you will get the same reply.

Once he gave me such a look and for a very long time I was absorbed in

Samadhi. Bhagavan was reading the newspaper, letters were being

brought in, normal activity was going on, but I was oblivious of the

happenings outside of me. In fact, I was unaware of my body.

I once remember a Harijan lady who for the past twenty-five years was

gathering honey to send to Sri Bhagavan. On every occasion she was

unable to bring the honey herself and had to send it with someone.

After waiting for twenty-five years, she finally found the

opportunity to come. The poor lady was in tattered clothes, standing

before Bhagavan. Her eyesight was poor and I still vividly recall the

unusual way she looked at Sri Bhagavan, calling out "Oh Darling, where

are you? I want to see you." Bhagavan in all his graciousness said,

"Granny, look this way. I am here." Looking at the honey she had

brought with her, he said to me, "They are Brahmins, they won't eat

this. We will share it, and eat it."

It is often said, Bhagavan did not give direct Upadesa, but what else

is all this? Although Bhagavan repeatedly pointed out human frailty,

people were not prepared to rectify themselves.

As if talking to himself, he looked at this poor old woman in ragged

clothes and said, "Poor lady, she must be hungry. And where will she

go for clothes? Who will offer her food and clothes?" Upon hearing

this, Ondu Reddiyar got up and said, "We will give her food and also

see that some clothes are purchased." Then Reddiyar took the woman to

the Dining Hall and fed her sumptuously. He also sent someone to town

to buy her a sari. As the old woman had no money, she had walked a

great distance to come here. Bhagavan knowing this, said in an

impersonal way, "Would anyone be interested in getting her a bus

ticket?" Reddiyar again came forward and said, "We will provide her

with a bus ticket and see her off." When this lady returned from the

Dining Hall she was touching the ground, and then touching her eyes.

That is a way of prostration and thanksgiving. It is noteworthy that

whenever the poor or untouchables came, Bhagavan took a very personal

interest in them, which was a moving sight to see.

Sri Bhagavan had absolutely no connection with either body or mind.

People used to be confused by seeing him read letters and newspapers.

His inner state never changed since he was sixteen. This was

demonstrated repeatedly, but only those who had the eyes to see,

could see and realize it. Sri Bhagavan was also a real taskmaster. He

used to quietly move around to various places within the Ashram

without notice. So every place had to be kept clean and neat because

Bhagavan was very particular about cleanliness. He was also

particular about punctuality. This kept every member of the Ashram

alert and on their toes, ready at all times to do what was necessary.

Look how this Ashram has grown. Unless Bhagavan was very careful in

his silent supervision, could it have grown to this extent?

Questioner: Where were you at the time of Sri Bhagavan's Mahanirvana?

Ramani Ammal: I was at Rajapalayam. That night I saw a blue light

beautifully rising up into the sky. I knew Bhagavan had left the

body. I felt that I did not want to live after that and started a

fast. By fasting I wanted to drop the body. After five or six days of

not touching food I had several visions. In one of them I was taken

inside the Arunachala Hill and saw there rishis performing yagnas and

yoga. I also saw Sri Bhagavan seated there. Some munis or rishis

offered some prasad to Bhagavan. Then Sri Bhagavan himself gave it to

me, and I was made to eat. I remembered that I was fasting, but

couldn't refuse Bhagavan's prasad. How can I say that it was a dream?

I consider it was Bhagavan's grace alone. He also said to me, "You say

and repeat 'I have gone away, I have gone away'. Where have I gone? I

am right here. You are not looking inward. If you look within, I am

there." For many days afterwards the smell of that prasad lingered.

The aroma even spread all through the house. My brother and sisters

kept talking about it. When I was fasting, my brother and sister were

also fasting with me. The morning following that vision we started

taking food again.

In the dream I also remember Bhagavan was seated near a tank and

rishis and munis were serving him. He looked splendid, gracious,

magnanimous, and magnificent. It was a beautiful sight. I saw there

Kamadhenu, the celestial cow, the celestial tree, and many other

wonderful things. It was a divine sight indeed. From that day onwards

I had no thought at all that Bhagavan had left us. He is all

pervading, and I experienced him particularly in my heart. I no

longer felt sorrow. He is even here now.

When I came again to Tiruvannamalai I was filled with bliss. You can

feel Bhagavan's presence every minute. Right this very minute I feel

his Divine Presence. I have no unhappiness. I am happy all the time.

Sri Bhagavan's Presence is so overpowering. See how we all are

gathered here. What have we done to deserve this?

Interviewer: To my knowledge I haven't done anything good and I also

wonder, along with you, how Bhagavan has gathered us here.

Ramani Ammal: I can't say that I have ever done anything bad. From my

childhood I didn't know what is good and what is bad either. But

doing good or bad has nothing to do with our coming to Bhagavan's

Presence. It is only by his grace that we are filled with his

glorious Presence.

* We extend our warm appreciation to J. Jayaraman who was the Tamil

interviewer, James Hartel who videotaped it, Sri V. Ganesan who

translated the interview into English, and to Geeta Bhatt who kindly

typed it.

 

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