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, "Harsha" wrote:

> "saktidasa" <saktidasa> wrote:

> "James Traverse"

> > >

> > > Hi Tony,

> > >

> > > Yes there is no illusion OR mind - there is illusion AND mind.

> > >

> > > Mind and Illusion are inter-dependent; they arise and fall

together.

> > > Separately they have no meaning. Together their Living Relationship

> > > is the Substance of the Nothing that is not there and the Nothing

> > > that is!

> > >

> > > It cannot be objectified because its substance is a Living

> > > Substance - it is current as the current moment and it is the

> > > unfolding current of UniVersal Being... some folks call it Love

> > > Consciousness.

> > >

> > > Love and Gratitude,

> > > James

>

> > Namaste J,

> >

> > What you are describing is an intermediate stage of dvaita approaching

> > advaita.

> >

>

> --what James wrote has nothing to

> do with levels, or stages

>

> the 'stages' are held by ego

>

> Era

>

> *************************

>

> Well put. Giving up ego, all stages are given up.

> Love,

>

> Harsha

 

Namaste H,

 

However if one has to converse one has to allow some validity as per

Sankara. However in the end result there is no Ego or big 'I' even.

Problem with philosophy is people philosophise and pick each other up

on semantics. Like how many angels can stand on the head of a pin.

I shouldn't have used the word stage, I suppose. I should have used

the word pointer, then that way I wouldn't have diverted their minds

from what I was saying to way I bady expressed it .This is better.

"The Ajatavada :

 

Ajatavada means the the creation which we see has never been created

at all. It is an illusion and is not really there. They say that

even the effort to find out how this creation has come about is a

compromise - it reveals ignorance of the truth. The above two vadas

start with a presumption of taking the world to be really there,

which itself may be baseless. To start any process of understanding

with a possibly wrong & baseless presumption is obviously not the

right way of enquiry. Strangely enough if we start this enquiry

whether the creation is really there or not then we get astounding

results : it is seen that it does not have any independent existence

at all. This is what the drishti-shrishti-vadins too subsequently

prove. If this is a fact then why waste time to prove creation of

something which is not really there. To temporarily accept a

falsehood is not compassion but a compromise and wrong, and has all

the consequences of other falsehood. Truth should be declared as

truthfully as possible - in its raw form. The entire effort of the

Ajata-vadins is the communicate how the creation has never come

about and therefore is just an illusion. It is only after the

realisation of the complete ephemerality & illusoriness of the

creation that even the thoughts of it are naturally effaced and when

the creation stands totally negated in this way then alone the ever-

existent & self-effulgent reality becomes evident & revealed. So

Ajatavada which has been revealed by the Mandukya Upanishad and

explained in texts like Yoga Vasishta is the ideal way of looking at

the world which is conducive & compatible to awakening to the

transcendental truth. The Ajatavada is not basically designed even

for the knowledge of Self, it is a fact by itself, and the knowledge

of Self follows the right knowledge of that which obstructs our

complete attention of the truth, namely the right knowledge of truth

of the creation.......Atmananda."

 

 

 

Namaste,

 

IMHO it seems to me that even to take the world or creation as a

projection or appearance is incorrect. This implies that there are

two beings Brahman and the Jiva or viewer of the illusion.

Brahman has allowed this son of a barren woman to have some validity

to itself as the Jiva only. Brahman and Jiva being one!

 

For if this creation ultmately had some validity it would not

disappear on Moksha and dropping the body. However it does it seems

disappear as never having happened in the first place.

 

This means it is not even an appearance and can only be viewed

because the Jiva is Brahman. It never happened at

all.........ONS..Tony.