Aristotle and perfection

[Guest guest]

, Gregory Goode <goode@D...> wrote:

> Hey Harsha,

> I'll look around this evening a bit for an Aristotle quote that

supports this. Can't think of anything off the top of my head...

> --Greg

>

> At 04:10 PM 12/9/2004 -0500, Harsha wrote:

> >I am reminded of a story. Has anyone heard it?

> >Aristotle said that God is Perfect.

> >Therefore whatever God thinks about

> >or focuses on must be Perfect as well.

> >Certainly the Perfect One will not focus

> >on imperfection. But since there is only

> >One Perfection and That is God, it follows

> >that God's essential nature must be

> >Self-Abiding or God-Abiding.

> >So God is constantly and continuously

> >only meditating on God, there being nothing else.

> >I heard that when I was in college and it

> >seemed to me very Advaitic. Is it a true story

> >about Aristotle. Perhaps Greg Goode would know.

 

Hi Harsha

 

We are talking Greek here... Aristotle! So it would be good to find

out what word he used for "perfect" and when we find it we have to

find out if the word he used in his day actually meant "perfect" the

way we understand it now in common day use.

 

We can actually start with Jesus, as a saying is attributed to him

that goes: "Be you therefore perfect as the father in the *heavens* is

perfect" which comes straight from Aristotle... so we are on target.

The word that Aristotle and Jesus used for perfect was 'teleios'.

(Judea was very Hellenistic in JC's days even Pythagoras was in vogue.)

 

The word 'teleios' is usually translated as 'perfect' in the sense of

flawless, but that is not totally correct unless you understand the

word 'perfect' as coming from the Latin 'per-facere' which means the

same in German or Dutch: 'making full' as in 'completing'... and that

is not exactly the same as flawless or without fault as the English

'perfect' now seems to mean.

 

That meaning of being 'made full' or 'brought to an end' is close to

the original meaning of Aristotle's days when it also did not have the

meaning of flawless or without fault...

'Teleios', stems from 'telos' as in 'teleology'.

'Telos' means goal, mark, target, end.

Perfection then in those days was seen as process, a cosmic one in

fact (the father in *heavens*), one of completion: from a beginning to

an end, from alpha to omega, the idea of creation in process or in

full swing.

 

When creation is done, brought to end it was 'teleios', 'completed',

not the same as 'perfect' unless one sees perfection as a dynamic

process that includes trial and error.

 

It actually means that as we are still in the process of perfecting.

We currently and according to science consider that the universe's

evolution is not over yet, we are not finished yet we are still

perfecting... Yahweh's "It is all Good" was a bit premature then eh ?!

 

When Jesus died on the cross he is supposed to have said, "tetelestai"

meaning "it is done, very much so." I don't think he meant "Well that

is just perfect..." Actually he meant the alpha is turning into

omega...

 

When did that more moral meaning of 'perfect' in the sense of without

fault, flaw or... "sin" come into use?

 

If I'm not mistaken I remember from long ago (from my monastic

philosophy and Greek profs) that 'telos' had to do with a spiral or a

set of concentric circles around a dot... a target that was used to

train warriors (martial arts) shooting catapults or arrows.

 

Yes, that's right, it's coming back, a target, a mark...

Missing that mark when shooting an arrow or manipulating a catapult

was called missing the mark or 'hamartia' in Greek, a word that in the

time that the gospels were written, started to mean 'sin' or mortal

flaw: ha-martia, not on-the mark.

 

Matter, Martia, Mark, Maya ...

By the way pretty near all words that start with MA have to do with

handling, shaping or measuring by hand. The Aryan/Sanskrit root "MA"

we find still in the French 'main', the English manufacture,

manipulate, maintain, measure (meter even) and yes, in the word maya

which originally meant the world of tangible measurable phenomena

(matter).

 

Missing the mark came to mean 'sinful' only in the time of gospel

writing (after Christ's death). "Not missing the mark", or "being

perfect" came to mean having "no flaws" being "all good". No demerit

points for God even as it was "All Good."

 

So Aristotle and even Jesus did not have that understanding of the

word teleios as 'all morally good and perfect', for them it was a

process that could even include pain or seeming failure... the way the

Buddha saw Dukkha, transience or impermanence.

 

So Aristotle's words in your lines:

> >Aristotle said that God is Perfect.

> >Therefore whatever God thinks about

> >or focuses on must be Perfect as well.

> >Certainly the Perfect One will not focus

> >on imperfection.

have a a different meaning, they have to do with the dynamics of the

universe, the movement of stars and planets in circles and spirals,

the idea of creation which can include processes which can seem 'off

target' (hamartia)... which in the larger picture may not be off

target at all.

 

Oh there is so much more to this, I'm actually on a roll...

Don't read beyond if I already have stretched your patience... but

there is some neat stuff to follow.

 

So when thinking about 'perfection' or Aristotle's 'teleios' we have

to keep 'a target' in mind... something like a circle with a dot

inside or even a circle with a X marking the spot (an old symbol that

was eventually used for the 'anointed messiah', CHI RO or XR inside a

big circle or O. This mark in a slightly simpler form is even found in

the oldest writing found so far in the Indus valley and stands for DHA

quite likely meaning "Divine" and found in Deus, dieu, Jupiter, Zeus,

Theos, deity.

 

It is so unbelievably interesting that we now still use words that

have a history of at least 6000 years... just consider the following:

 

Our words THis, THat, THere (Dies, das and da in German) start with a

TH sound that in Greek is represented by the capital character

Theta... a... circle with a dot inside!!! Another one of the oldest

writing symbols in the Indus valley. Well if "that, this and there"

are not markers to mark the spot then you can disregard everything

written here. (By the way all this is heavily researched, sources,

scholars.

 

All right but back to Aristotle...

Not quite yet...

We have the circle with the dot, but we also have the spiral:

 

Another way of writing the Greek TH or theta was with a symbol that

resembles the root sign but much more fluid and rounded, it consists

of two small elongated spirals touching at the base.

 

(Then there is combination of a spiral and a + sign it actually stems

from a sign that we even find in Chinese and is part of the Reiki

symbols as well, to do with the divine healing power of CHI... bit I

will leave that for another time.)

 

Anyway keep the idea of a circle with a dot or a cross inside as well

the spiral in mind when thinking of perfection as a dynamic zoning in

on target with bona fide deviations as they occur.

Perfection is not a solid state affair.

 

Interesting that an 'initiate or beginner' in the mystery religions

from 400 BCE to 400 CE was also called a "perfect one" or a 'teleios',

someone who eventually - from initiation to the goal - would be

perfected... as Jesus said "Be therefore perfect..."

Later because of flawed translations and quite a bit of malicious

disdain, adherents to mystery religions and heresies were

characterized as "they call themselves the perfect one". But that is

not how they saw themselves, they saw themselves as participating in

that cosmic process of perfection from beginning to end.

That gets us back to Aristotle again who when he described the divine

creative cosmic aspects, always pointed to the heavens (like Jesus "Be

you therefore perfect as the father in heavens is perfect")

According to Aristotle, there is a perfect God:

p e r f e c t i n g that is,

the prime mover responsible for all moving objects, which in turn move

other objects... the spirals and circles of the heavenly bodies... the

idea behind the Buddha's "transience" according to the doctrine of

"dependent arisings."

So the heavens are not some abstract heavenly abode of gods but the

heavens of heavenly bodies "en toi uranois".

 

Wim

PS Even now Mennonites, Dukhobors, live "The Perfect Life" the

perfecting one that is...