Guest guest Posted December 20, 2004 Report Share Posted December 20, 2004 Namaskar, Devotee: Relatively speaking, is not the sleep state nearer to pure Consciousness than the waking state? Maharshi: Yes, in this sense: When passing from sleep to waking the I-thought must start; the mind comes into play; thoughts arise; then the functions of the thoughts come into operation; all these together make us say that we are awake. The absence of all this evolution is the characteristic of sleep and therefore it is nearer to to Pure Consciousness than the waking state. But one should not therefore desire to be always in sleep. In the first place it is impossible, for it will necessarily alternate with the other states. Secondly it cannot be the state of bliss in which the jnani is, for his state is permanent and not alternating. Moreover the sleepstate is not recognized to be one of awareness by people; but the sage is always aware. Thus the sleep state differs from the state in which the sage is established. Still more, the sleep state is free from thoughts and their impression to the individual. It cannot be altered by one's will because effort is impossible in that condition . Although nearer to Consciousness, it is not fit for efforts to realize the Self. The incentive to realize can arise only in the waking state and efforts can also be made only when one is awake. We learn that the thoughts in the waking state form the obstacle to gaining the stillness of sleep; stillness is the aim of the seeker. Even a single effort to still at least a single thought even for a trice goes a long way to reach the state of quiescence. Effort is required and that is possible in the waking state only. There is the effort here; there is awareness also; the thoughts are stilled; so there is the peace of sleep gained. That is the state of the jnani. It is neither sleep nor waking but intermediate between the two. There is the awareness of the waking state and the stillness of sleep. It is called jagratsushupti. Call it wakeful sleep or sleeping wakefulness or sleepless sleep or wakeless waking ....... it is not the same as sleep or waking separately. It is the state of perfect awareness and of perfect stillness combined. (from the Talks) Om Arunachala Shiva Christiane P.S. The moment just before waking before thoughts rise is a good moment to "catch consciousness" as that is experienced daily by all. But imo the best way is to stay aware of I-I and without thoughts as much as possible during the day. On Dec 20, 2004, at 15:41, rpodury wrote: > > What is posted under the title is some what different from the known > guidelines for' vichara' > > when one atttempts tp practice vichara the immediate goal is to be > conscious without thoughts, only being aware of 'I ' (which is > supposed > to merge in Self). From my personal experience, when ever I attempt I > am > able to reach the state of consiousness without thoughts in a few > seconds > or a minute but after sometime without my knowledge slipping into a > 'sleep > like state'. But I continue when I come out of it as suggested by Sri > Ramana. What I understood from His teachings was that we should carry > our > sadhana while in waking state. > > The posting under the above title appears to be a deviation from what > I > understood of 'Vichara' > > If what one has to do to achieve 'nirvikalpa samadhi' is going into > sleep > volunarily, I can go into sleep very easily setting aside all > thoughts at > any place at any time ( This statement is with utmost humility and I > do not > want to sound egoistic ) But i thought nirvikalpa samadhi is much > more than > that. Elders may clarify > > But one thing I noticed is that the sleep I slip into while doing > vichara > is so deep and without any trace of any drream unlike normal sleep > where I > always have several dreams. > > Another interesting thing I noticed was, when I attempt ' vichara' and > mentally resolve that I would sit for an hour, even if I slip into > sleep, > when I open my eyes it is exactly one hour to the minute. Many times > I was > surprised. My practice does not confine to a sitting position- in > addition > I do it all through the day in several situations. > > suggestions from senior devotees are welcome to guide me > > Jai Sri Ramana > > Ramana sarma > > > > > > /join > > > > > > "Love itself is the actual form of God." > > Sri Ramana > > In "Letters from Sri Ramanasramam" by Suri Nagamma > > > > > Sponsor > > > <121504_y1204_a_300250a.gif> > <l.gif> > > Links > > • > / > > • > > > • Terms of > Service. > > Monsoonhouse Int. Kovalam/Kerala contact: christianecameron Attachment: (text/enriched) [not stored] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 16, 2005 Report Share Posted January 16, 2005 Dear One: Let your sincerity be your guide. Love and blessings ============================================================ rpodury 2004/12/20 Mon AM 08:41:28 CST Re: sleeping knowingly suggestions from senior devotees are welcome to guide me Jai Sri Ramana Ramana sarma Love, serve, and be helpful, but without getting disgusted, tired, pessimistic, and exhausted. Blessings dear souls, blessings! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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