Guest guest Posted December 22, 2004 Report Share Posted December 22, 2004 Hello, The nirvikalpa state is always present, illumines all like a lamp. It is the mirror apon which the universe is dispayed, etc. You cannot go beyond that, was the point. Nirvikalpa is non-dual, no images on the mirror.(non-dualsim) Savikalpa is dual, images on the mirror.(qualified non-dualism) Both of these can be sahaja or kevala. Sahaja in nirvikalpa refers to Avatars. Sahaja in savikalpa refers to Jivanmuktas. Samadhi means absence of thoughts. Nirvikalpa samadhi is rare, charachterised by body death, suspension, etc. No subject, object, perspective(absolute or relative). Savikalpa samadhi is not so rare. Everything from the relative to absolute perspective. Sahaja Savikalpa Samadhi is the jivanmukta state. Sahaja Nirvikalpa Samadhi is the Avatar state. > > "Nirguna" frequently gets translated with "unqualified", a "beyond the gunas" > (tamas / rajas / sattva). So the question of "beyond that" doesn't apply. > What might happen (independent of path) is the last event of > "going in / out nirvikalpa samadhi". > The samadhi stays but the suspension of senses / faculties of mind, are as if > to wake up "in" the samadhi, that from then on is termed "sahaja". > > It helps a lot when able to comment on issues from expereriental knowledge > which then easily gets recognized in the majority of scriptures from all > religions. > > Jan > Yes when you truely understand something you should be able to explain it to a child and have it make sense. It no doubt helps to have a receptive child though. Forums like this a very good. To take all the words and concepts you have absorbed and put them in your own words, based on your own experiences. All knowledge is taken as hypothetic untill experienced. A truth is not a truth untill you prove it to yourself. Om Namah Shivaya JJM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 22, 2004 Report Share Posted December 22, 2004 On 12/22/04 at 7:51 PM Jason James Morgan wrote: Hello,The nirvikalpa state is always present, illumines all like a lamp. It is the mirror apon which the universe is dispayed, etc. You cannot go beyond that, was the point. That misses the point, there is no "you" in nirvikalpa samadhi. Also, in nirvikalpa samadhi, the potential to return is present but not noticed while in the samadhi. Nirvikalpa is non-dual, no images on the mirror.(non-dualsim)Savikalpa is dual, images on the mirror.(qualified non-dualism) The mirror is the image, and an object. Both of these can be sahaja or kevala.Sahaja in nirvikalpa refers to Avatars.Sahaja in savikalpa refers to Jivanmuktas. Where did you copy that from? Samadhi means absence of thoughts. Deep dreamless sleep IS the absence of thoughts. A half-truth too as it means "absence of AWARENESS of thoughts". Nirvikalpa samadhi is rare, charachterised by body death, suspension, etc. No subject, object, perspective(absolute or relative). Waking up from samadhis happens just like from sleep. Whatever is entered has to be left. Savikalpa samadhi is not so rare. Everything from the relative to absolute perspective. The absolute perspective from a relative mind has to be ... relative. Sahaja Savikalpa Samadhi is the jivanmukta state. Sahaja Nirvikalpa Samadhi is the Avatar state. Nobody could differentiate between those two at night when both are sleeping.Any state is relative. > > "Nirguna" frequently gets translated with "unqualified", a "beyond the gunas"> (tamas / rajas / sattva). So the question of "beyond that" doesn't apply.> What might happen (independent of path) is the last event of > "going in / out nirvikalpa samadhi".> The samadhi stays but the suspension of senses / faculties of mind, are as if> to wake up "in" the samadhi, that from then on is termed "sahaja".> > It helps a lot when able to comment on issues from expereriental knowledge> which then easily gets recognized in the majority of scriptures from all> religions. > > Jan> Yes when you truely understand something you should be able to explain it to a child and have it make sense. It no doubt helps to have a receptive child though. It helps more to be among wild animals, behaving in a way to befriend them only as domestication invariably means "less aware". Forums like this a very good. To take all the words and concepts you have absorbed and put them in your own words, based on your own experiences. The Kathopanishad can also be read as a metaphor that whatever gets accumulated in the course of events gets lost. Experiences only exist in memory hence the timeless issue of what can't be lost / isn't lost. All knowledge is taken as hypothetic untill experienced.A truth is not a truth untill you prove it to yourself. Several texts have been written in a way that only after certain experiences they can be understood. Reading them from an other perspective might be harmful. Om Namah ShivayaJJM Peace, Jan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 23, 2004 Report Share Posted December 23, 2004 ecirada [ecirada (AT) mad (DOT) scientist.com] Thursday, December 23, 2004 12:39 AMSubject: Re: Re: Sleeping knowingly.On 12/22/04 at 7:51 PM Jason James Morgan wrote: Hello,The nirvikalpa state is always present, illumines all like a lamp. It is the mirror apon which the universe is dispayed, etc. You cannot go beyond that, was the point. That misses the point, there is no "you" in nirvikalpa samadhi. Also, in nirvikalpa samadhi, the potential to return is present but not noticed while in the samadhi. Nirvikalpa is non-dual, no images on the mirror.(non-dualsim)Savikalpa is dual, images on the mirror.(qualified non-dualism) The mirror is the image, and an object. Both of these can be sahaja or kevala.Sahaja in nirvikalpa refers to Avatars.Sahaja in savikalpa refers to Jivanmuktas. Where did you copy that from? Samadhi means absence of thoughts. Deep dreamless sleep IS the absence of thoughts. A half-truth too as it means "absence of AWARENESS of thoughts". Nirvikalpa samadhi is rare, charachterised by body death, suspension, etc. No subject, object, perspective(absolute or relative). Waking up from samadhis happens just like from sleep. Whatever is entered has to be left. Savikalpa samadhi is not so rare. Everything from the relative to absolute perspective. The absolute perspective from a relative mind has to be ... relative. Sahaja Savikalpa Samadhi is the jivanmukta state. Sahaja Nirvikalpa Samadhi is the Avatar state. Nobody could differentiate between those two at night when both are sleeping.Any state is relative. > > "Nirguna" frequently gets translated with "unqualified", a "beyond the gunas"> (tamas / rajas / sattva). So the question of "beyond that" doesn't apply.> What might happen (independent of path) is the last event of > "going in / out nirvikalpa samadhi".> The samadhi stays but the suspension of senses / faculties of mind, are as if> to wake up "in" the samadhi, that from then on is termed "sahaja".> > It helps a lot when able to comment on issues from expereriental knowledge> which then easily gets recognized in the majority of scriptures from all> religions. > > Jan> Yes when you truely understand something you should be able to explain it to a child and have it make sense. It no doubt helps to have a receptive child though. It helps more to be among wild animals, behaving in a way to befriend them only as domestication invariably means "less aware". Forums like this a very good. To take all the words and concepts you have absorbed and put them in your own words, based on your own experiences. The Kathopanishad can also be read as a metaphor that whatever gets accumulated in the course of events gets lost. Experiences only exist in memory hence the timeless issue of what can't be lost / isn't lost. All knowledge is taken as hypothetic untill experienced.A truth is not a truth untill you prove it to yourself. Several texts have been written in a way that only after certain experiences they can be understood. Reading them from an other perspective might be harmful. Om Namah ShivayaJJM Peace, Jan ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ i looked for the seeker within and without. searched for him everywhere. and found no trace of "me"... only the echoes of friend's laughter rippling through empty space. all is he! :-)) jai ramana! yosy _()_ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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