Guest guest Posted December 30, 2004 Report Share Posted December 30, 2004 satsang Regarding the recent Asian tsunami, those who had karma with the tsunami that day had to face that karma. They had no choice. In turn, we each have our own karmas to face in our own lives. Unless of course you are a jnani, in which case, you have burned all karmas to a crisp. The only way to roast the seeds of karma is to awaken to pure Consciousness, which is ever-present eternally in the Heart. Surrender to That and be free. When the understanding is final, the surrender will be complete. Samadhi Ma Northern California > > > > Digest Number 2760 >30 Dec 2004 09:58:32 -0000 > > >------------------------ Sponsor --------------------~--> >$4.98 domain names from . Register anything. >http://us.click./Q7_YsB/neXJAA/yQLSAA/bpSolB/TM >--~-> > >There are 4 messages in this issue. > >Topics in this digest: > > 1. Ecstatic Bandwidth of God > "Mazie Lane" <sraddha54 (AT) hotmail (DOT) com> > 2. Greetings from Michael Bindel > "Wim Borsboom" <wim_borsboom (AT) (DOT) ca> > 3. Re: Why are we addicted to drama and violence? > "saktidasa" <saktidasa > > 4. Urgent Relief Needed for Tamil Nadu Tsunami and Earthquake Victims > "Radha Madhava" <radhamadhava2 > > > >______________________ >______________________ > >Message: 1 > Wed, 29 Dec 2004 05:32:13 -0800 > "Mazie Lane" <sraddha54 (AT) hotmail (DOT) com> >Ecstatic Bandwidth of God > > > >[This message is not in displayable format] > > > >______________________ >______________________ > >Message: 2 > Wed, 29 Dec 2004 20:22:47 -0000 > "Wim Borsboom" <wim_borsboom (AT) (DOT) ca> >Greetings from Michael Bindel > > >Michael has asked me to extend his very best wishes to ALL of you, he >is very grateful to all for the insights you have helped him to gain. >He enjoys the silence and is learning much from it. > >Bliss, Happiness and Peace to all... > >For Michael, >Wim > > > > > >______________________ >______________________ > >Message: 3 > Thu, 30 Dec 2004 00:07:26 -0000 > "saktidasa" <saktidasa > >Re: Why are we addicted to drama and violence? > > >, "saktidasa" <saktidasa> wrote: > > > > Namaste, > > > > First of all let me say I am compassionate to the survivors. > > > > Our blockbuster movies are usually mindless violence. > > > > Now we have the tragedy of people suffering from the effects of the > > Tsunami. People and tv keep going on about the body count etc etc etc. > > > > However the quiet deaths aren't noticed. The literally tens thousands > > of children that starve to death every week, where is the attention of > > the media? It it not dramatic so doesn't feed the media, and people's > > minds. > > >Namaste, > >I will answer my own question; It is due to the rajasic and tamasic >state of people's minds. > > The dying children is not exciting or rajasic enough, even though >consistently more numerous, so the mind ,like the monkey it is looks >around. The tv talks of thousands then that becomes boring so to keep >the interest up they talk of situations and people and then finally >celebrities and how many Westerners were killed or are missing etc. > >There is the feeling of 'for whom does the bell toll' also for we >imagine if it was us, and eventually we also must die. > >There is no acceptance of it, even though it is karmic. So there is >the fear generated also. The Ego likes the drama and experience, >vicarious or not. It helps it convince itself of its own reality, >which of course is an illusion. > >It is all part of the monkey mind craving excitement, rajasic in the >main but tamasic also. No going within here...........ONS..Tony. > > > > > >______________________ >______________________ > >Message: 4 > Thu, 30 Dec 2004 00:11:46 +0530 > "Radha Madhava" <radhamadhava2 > >Urgent Relief Needed for Tamil Nadu Tsunami and Earthquake Victims > >Please forward this urgent appeal to all your friends and relatives. > > > > >Urgent Relief Needed for Tamil Nadu >Tsunami and Earthquake Victims > > > >[instructionsfordonatingbelow;alldonationsare501©3taxdeductable.] >http://www.foodrelief.org > > > >[Morephotosatthebottomofthispage.] > > > > > >Dear friends and devotees, > >Jaya Sri Rama. Please accept my humble pranams. > >We are all very saddened about the terrible devastation that has fallen on our brothers and sisters in South India and other parts of the world. > >In response to the recent tsunami, the Bhaktivedanta Ashram is arranging a team of volunteers in Tamil Nadu to begin relief work to help the victims. Relief activities are expected to begin on Thursday, December 30th. Within several days an additional team of volunteers from our Orissa ashram will join them to provide further relief supplies including basic necessities for children and their families. Due to the long term effects of this disaster, the Bhaktivedanta Ashram plans to open a permanent relief center in Chennai so that relief activities can continue even after the immediate media attention dies down. With our past experience of the Orissa cyclone in 1999 we know that such disasters lead to long term difficulties for the victims that continue even after the relief organizations leave. With that in mind we are planning to maintain our relief center in Tamil Nadu permanently so that we can continue caring for those in need, especially the children who are affected by this disaster. > >Reports indicate that the death toll in India has reached over 12,500 so far, with children accounting for up to a third of all the dead. Health reports state that the spread of disease could kill as many people in the coming weeks. > >In such a situation with millions of displaced people suffering in need of food and clothing it seems an impossible task, but we should not let this discourage us. Let every one of us help in whatever little way we can. > >We humbly request all those with sufficient means to donate towards the tsunami relief work in Tamil Nadu. To donate by credit card you may visit our website and enter your donation through our secure server: > >http://www.foodrelief.org > >Donations may also by sent by check made payable to "Bhaktivedanta International Charities" with the words 'Tamil Nadu Relief' in the memo field: > >Bhaktivedanta International Charities >P.O.Box 34153 >Los Angeles, CA 90034 >United States of America > >I would like to again thank all of our friends and donors who have contributed towards our projects in the past and request everyone to offer whatever service they can, regardless of how small, to help this urgent cause. > >Yours in service, > >Jahnava Nitai Das, >Bhaktivedanta Ashram & >Bhaktivedanta International Charities >http://www.foodrelief.org > > >[This message contained attachments] > > > >______________________ >______________________ > > >/join > > > > > >"Love itself is the actual form of God." > >Sri Ramana > >In "Letters from Sri Ramanasramam" by Suri Nagamma >------ > Links > ><*> > / > ><*> To from this group, send an email to: > > ><*> Your use of Groups is subject to: > > >------ > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 30, 2004 Report Share Posted December 30, 2004 - SAMADHI Samadhi Thursday, December 30, 2004 2:03 PM RE: Digest Number 2760 satsang Regarding the recent Asian tsunami, those who had karma with the tsunami that day had to face that karma. They had no choice. In turn, we each have our own karmas to face in our own lives. Unless of course you are a jnani, in which case, you have burned all karmas to a crisp. The only way to roast the seeds of karma is to awaken to pure Consciousness, which is ever-present eternally in the Heart. Surrender to That and be free. When the understanding is final, the surrender will be complete. Samadhi Ma Northern California Hello Samadhi Ma, Does the first part of your text mean that there where no `jnani`in the victims of the tsunami? Antoine Sometimes blunt Version: 7.0.298 / Virus Database: 265.6.7 - Release 04-12-30 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 30, 2004 Report Share Posted December 30, 2004 Namaste, as long as the Jnani is in the body that body has to go on facing the karma's that have already become manifest, meaning his Prarabdha. However, because he is a Jnani and has ceased to identify with his actions, he does not generate any new karmas nor does he feel the impact of his Prarabdha due to lack of identication. Bhagavan has used the comparison of a fan, whose blades go on rotating for a while after the electricity has been switched off. Om Arunachala Shiva Christiane On Dec 31, 2004, at 00:02, Antoine Carré wrote: > > - > SAMADHI Samadhi > > Thursday, December 30, 2004 2:03 PM > RE: Digest Number 2760 > > > To: > > satsang > > Regarding the recent Asian tsunami, those who had karma with the > tsunami that day had to face that karma. They had no choice. In turn, > we each have our own karmas to face in our own lives. Unless of course > you are a jnani, in which case, you have burned all karmas to a crisp. > The only way to roast the seeds of karma is to awaken to pure > Consciousness, which is ever-present eternally in the Heart. Surrender > to That and be free. When the understanding is final, the surrender > will be complete. > > Samadhi Ma > > Northern California > > Hello Samadhi Ma, > > Does the first part of your text mean that there where no `jnani`in > the victims of the tsunami? > > Antoine > Sometimes blunt > > > > > /join > > > > > > "Love itself is the actual form of God." > > Sri Ramana > > In "Letters from Sri Ramanasramam" by Suri Nagamma > > > > > Sponsor > > > <121504_y1204_b_300250a.gif> > <l.gif> > > Links > > • > / > > • > > > • Terms of > Service. > > > > Version: 7.0.298 / Virus Database: 265.6.7 - Release 04-12-30 > Monsoonhouse Int. Kovalam/Kerala contact: christianecameron Attachment: (text/enriched) [not stored] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 30, 2004 Report Share Posted December 30, 2004 , "SAMADHI Samadhi" <samaadhi@h...> wrote: >>>Regarding the recent Asian tsunami, those who had karma with the tsunami that day had to face that karma. They had no choice...<<< Huh? >>>...In turn, we each have our own karmas to face in our own lives. Unless of course you are a jnani,...<<< I bet you, more than one jnani underwent the earthquake and/or tsunami as well, and... they had no choice either! Do you consider it karma in the non-jnani's case, but not karma in the jnani's case? Your view of karma is not necessarily the same as expressed in the Bhagavad-Gita. Are you are also not mixing in "merit and demerit" here? I sincerely hope not... >>>in which case, you have burned all karmas to a crisp. The only way to roast the seeds of karma is to awaken to pure Consciousness, which is ever-present eternally in the Heart. Surrender to That and be free. When the understanding is final, the surrender will be complete.<<< Sounds good, nice even, but in view of what you wrote before, it means not much. I myself over the years have come away very far from considering karma the way you seem to describe it and the way you seem to propose to deal with it. The implications of that way of thinking about karma can - down the line - lead very quickly to notions of punishment and retribution, and that is not a road one should find oneself on or even close to... Not at all an expression of unconditional love and divine compassion. We do not know at all why "ANY OF THIS" takes place, no need to project our limited human understanding of nature AND human nature onto the dynamics of the grander and smaller scales of the universe. Karma in the meaning you seem to apply here, has nothing to do with it. Not that flawed - although popularly accepted - meaning anyway. Oriental people see karma different from Western people, although admittedly, later religious traditions have negatively influenced the Eastern understanding of karma as well, e.g. the late Christian, Islamic and even later Christian Lutheran/Calvinist influences. Westerners should be very careful in bringing their engrained ideas that so differ from Hinduism, Buddhism and Taoism into them. (Many of which Western notions do not work too effectively and efficiently anyway.) The Bhagavad-Gita when read properly does not express that flawed and impoverished view of karma: http://www.bhagavad-gita.org/Gita/verse-02-46.html In a more popular translation Krishna says, "To karma you have the right, but not to its rewards." He sees karma as a right... a birthright! Not as something that can be a hard lesson for most and easy sailing for a jnani or so. That is not the purpose of karma, if we can know the purpose at all! It could be that karma has no purpose, what do we know? But let's say it does, it still has nothing to do with regards to its rewarding or not rewarding results. Therefore the results (rewarding or not) cannot be used to qualify someone's 'being' as right or not. Nobody has the right to look at anybody that way and making qualifying remarks based on that. If we have no rights to karmic rewards (nice or not) do you think that if the rewards are unrewarding that all of a sudden the one who undergoes them deserves them? Not at all what Krishna taught!!! Not at all the way "whatever this world is" works, if we can know at all how "it all" really works... Wim PS. Let's say we humans knew "ITS" purpose, we would quickly abuse it for purposes that lead to rewards for some and punishment for others... See?! (And that, unfortunately, seems to have overtaken the ordinary religious stance a few times too often.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 31, 2004 Report Share Posted December 31, 2004 To Wim, Regarding your reply to my comments about the tsunami and those who had karma with it, I did not in any way imply that, among those who were hurt or who died, there was not a sage or jnanai among them. You completely misinterpreted my statement. Jnanis too have bodily karma, pralabda karma. In other words, a jnani must live out the karma of the present bodily existance. However, due to their awakening to Reality, Truth, the past life karmas of a jnani are no more. In other words, there are no longer any karmas for a jnani, except the bodily or pralabd karma. The point I was trying to make is that for a jnani, there is no tsunami. The real tsunami occurred when the jnani awakened to his/her pure consciousness. Everything, after that awakening, which occurs to the body of a jnani is irrelevant and superfluous. Once awakening has occurred, the time or method of the death of the body of a jnani does not matter, because Eternal Existance was previously already established. I am sorry that you felt that I was not expressing "unconditional love and divine compassion" about the horrific events of this past week in Asia. It is sad that so many have suffered so much. Yet, it is important to understand how one is to transcend all suffering. That is by realizing who and what one truly is. That was the intent of my original statement. Please do not imply anything else to the contrary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 31, 2004 Report Share Posted December 31, 2004 Hi "Samadhi Ma" <samaadhi@h...> Of course I appreciate your answer and do understand your more commonly accepted and classical view on karma. I hope though that the understanding of Krishna's words on Karma as expressed made sense. There is nothing new to that understanding, but I just wanted to emphasize that 'the results' of karma and even karma itself cannot be used to draw any conclusions about someone's being, especially not in statements about anybody's being 'well' or 'not'... even... our own! Better to stick with Ramana's guidance to compassionately rediscover who we are that we are... Many an illusive pitfall is avoided that way! Wim , "Samadhi Ma" <samaadhi@h...> wrote: > > To Wim, > Regarding your reply to my comments about the tsunami and those > who had karma with it, I did not in any way imply that, among those > who were hurt or who died, there was not a sage or jnanai among > them. You completely misinterpreted my statement. Jnanis too have > bodily karma, pralabda karma. In other words, a jnani must live out > the karma of the present bodily existance. > However, due to their awakening to Reality, Truth, the past life > karmas of a jnani are no more. In other words, there are no longer > any karmas for a jnani, except the bodily or pralabd karma. > The point I was trying to make is that for a jnani, there is no > tsunami. The real tsunami occurred when the jnani awakened to > his/her pure consciousness. Everything, after that awakening, which > occurs to the body of a jnani is irrelevant and superfluous. Once > awakening has occurred, the time or method of the death of the body > of a jnani does not matter, because Eternal Existance was previously > already established. > I am sorry that you felt that I was not expressing "unconditional > love and divine compassion" about the horrific events of this past > week in Asia. It is sad that so many have suffered so much. Yet, > it is important to understand how one is to transcend all > suffering. That is by realizing who and what one truly is. That was > the intent of my original statement. Please do not imply anything > else to the contrary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 31, 2004 Report Share Posted December 31, 2004 -Dear Antoine, The answer to your question is no. See my letter today to Wim. Samadhi Ma -- In , Antoine Carré <antoine.carre@s...> wrote: > > - > SAMADHI Samadhi > > Thursday, December 30, 2004 2:03 PM > RE: Digest Number 2760 > > > To: > > satsang > > Regarding the recent Asian tsunami, those who had karma with the tsunami that day had to face that karma. They had no choice. In turn, we each have our own karmas to face in our own lives. Unless of course you are a jnani, in which case, you have burned all karmas to a crisp. The only way to roast the seeds of karma is to awaken to pure Consciousness, which is ever-present eternally in the Heart. Surrender to That and be free. When the understanding is final, the surrender will be complete. > > Samadhi Ma > > Northern California > > > > > - ------------- > > Hello Samadhi Ma, > > Does the first part of your text mean that there where no `jnani`in the victims of the tsunami? > > Antoine > Sometimes blunt > > > > > > Version: 7.0.298 / Virus Database: 265.6.7 - Release 04-12-30 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 31, 2004 Report Share Posted December 31, 2004 Antoine, The answer to your question is no. Please see my letter dated today to Wim. Samadhi Ma , Antoine Carré <antoine.carre@s...> wrote: > > - > SAMADHI Samadhi > > Thursday, December 30, 2004 2:03 PM > RE: Digest Number 2760 > > > To: > > satsang > > Regarding the recent Asian tsunami, those who had karma with the tsunami that day had to face that karma. They had no choice. In turn, we each have our own karmas to face in our own lives. Unless of course you are a jnani, in which case, you have burned all karmas to a crisp. The only way to roast the seeds of karma is to awaken to pure Consciousness, which is ever-present eternally in the Heart. Surrender to That and be free. When the understanding is final, the surrender will be complete. > > Samadhi Ma > > Northern California > > > > > - ------------- > > Hello Samadhi Ma, > > Does the first part of your text mean that there where no `jnani`in the victims of the tsunami? > > Antoine > Sometimes blunt > > > > > > Version: 7.0.298 / Virus Database: 265.6.7 - Release 04-12-30 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 1, 2005 Report Share Posted January 1, 2005 In view of the discussion about karma (by way of Bob O'Hearn and Wim) "Life and death as nirvana. Don't be picky, don't choose this or that. However comfortable your life is, right now at this moment, I know some of you have pain. Whatever painful situation you are involved in, consider that as the very life of the Buddha, the very state of nirvana itself, and be it. Just live that life. It doesn't matter whether it is life of hell, life of the hungry ghost, life of the animal. It's okay. Just live that life, see. And as matter of fact, no other way. Where you stand, where you are that's what your life is right there, regardless of how painful it is, or how enjoyable it is. That's what it is. That condition never continues forever. You can even say it changes completely in less than a second. This life, death. ~Taizan Maezumi , "Wim Borsboom" <wim_borsboom> wrote: > > Hi "Samadhi Ma" <samaadhi@h...> > > Of course I appreciate your answer and do understand your more > commonly accepted and classical view on karma. > I hope though that the understanding of Krishna's words on Karma as > expressed made sense. There is nothing new to that understanding, but > I just wanted to emphasize that 'the results' of karma and even karma > itself cannot be used to draw any conclusions about someone's being, > especially not in statements about anybody's being 'well' or 'not'... > even... our own! > > Better to stick with Ramana's guidance to compassionately rediscover > who we are that we are... > Many an illusive pitfall is avoided that way! > > Wim > > > , "Samadhi Ma" <samaadhi@h...> wrote: > > > > To Wim, > > Regarding your reply to my comments about the tsunami and those > > who had karma with it, I did not in any way imply that, among those > > who were hurt or who died, there was not a sage or jnanai among > > them. You completely misinterpreted my statement. Jnanis too have > > bodily karma, pralabda karma. In other words, a jnani must live out > > the karma of the present bodily existance. > > However, due to their awakening to Reality, Truth, the past life > > karmas of a jnani are no more. In other words, there are no longer > > any karmas for a jnani, except the bodily or pralabd karma. > > The point I was trying to make is that for a jnani, there is no > > tsunami. The real tsunami occurred when the jnani awakened to > > his/her pure consciousness. Everything, after that awakening, which > > occurs to the body of a jnani is irrelevant and superfluous. Once > > awakening has occurred, the time or method of the death of the body > > of a jnani does not matter, because Eternal Existance was previously > > already established. > > I am sorry that you felt that I was not expressing "unconditional > > love and divine compassion" about the horrific events of this past > > week in Asia. It is sad that so many have suffered so much. Yet, > > it is important to understand how one is to transcend all > > suffering. That is by realizing who and what one truly is. That was > > the intent of my original statement. Please do not imply anything > > else to the contrary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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