Guest guest Posted January 4, 2005 Report Share Posted January 4, 2005 , christiane cameron <christianecameron@m...> wrote: > > Dear Tony, > > I cannot believe that you are lecturing me in this way. Either this is > not meant for me at all or you never read anything I wrote. > > Again, we are aware of everything you say, but if we take all > interaction to the last consequence of Nirguna, then we might as well > stop posting here, as neither you nor I nor this Sangha exists. > > There was a Jnani called Ramana Maharshi, my beloved Guruji, and he > loved Arunachala, that is all. Ramana is Arunachala and Arunachala is > Shiva and Shiva is Self. Has the red mountain called you? > > Om Arunachala Shiva > Chris Namaste Chris et al, No it isn't meant for you personally, it is meant for me and anybody. No I haven't had any red mountains talking to me recently, that I am aware of. Although a few rocks have been, thrown my way. Just because one uses a form of devotion doesn't mean that is the way of all. If one wishes to use pictures and mountains or even bodily forms for a point of concentration that is fine, but it is all external. Ramana's teaching was all internal 'Who am I?', I'm sure he had to tolerate people worshipping him as did many other Muktas, but that doesn't mean it was his teaching. One has to distinguish between the body and its prarabda and the Mukta/Self. Some people cannot easily go within due to mental capacity so they worship things, as a representation. Ramana didn't come to start a new religion, in fact he didn't get involved so. There is no Ramana anyway but in people's imaginations, as the same with Jesus, Buddha etc------they were probably all Muktas, most with prarabda that gave them the illusion of being a person. Many even have impressions of omniscience in Gurus etc etc. This is also misunderstood IMO. A guru can only have the siddhis that were decided for the body by prarabda and that's all. When the Ego is gone it is the Universal Consciousness that motivates the 'shell'. The UC is universal and so therefore doesn't have value judgments. So a 100,000 people karmically killed in say a hurricane is no different from a hundred thousand ants killed by someone poisoning them in the garden. The Self doesn't ever interfere, in this exchange and movement of illusory energy. So gurus cannot be expected to display omniscience to the nth degree. An Avatar may be slightly different from a Mukta in that they are not fully realised, but held off to return and help. However they usually become Muktas once in the lifetime anyway,IMO. They also carry out the prescribed task they have set out for themeslves and no more, including which siddhis etc etc. In the end result pictures, mountains, idols, guru- humans and all are for concentration only. This is because the lower mind loves ritual and this behaviour. Go Within is the teaching.......Ramana especially taught this and didn't come to found a new religion of image worshippers. Who am I? Ko-Ham. So yes I don't worship people, pictures, mountains, or any other manifestation of illusion. I try to go within. Even praying achieves nothing but a little peace of mind, it cannot change any karma. Only meditation is really effective...........I am not saying stop worshipping if at this state of one's mental capacity one needs it for concentration.........but lets not forget what the concentration is for...............ONS.............Tony. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 5, 2005 Report Share Posted January 5, 2005 Dear I > Just because one uses a form of devotion doesn't mean that is the way > of all. If one wishes to use pictures and mountains or even bodily > forms for a point of concentration that is fine, but it is all > external. If you wish to regard the body as outside, when it is really also a part of self, all right. But the process of worshipping the form of Maharshi is certainly very much an inside process. It serves to purify the mind, melt it in love and ready it for enquiry. Also Maharshi has explained that his yoga is a synthesis of Bhakti and Jnana. > Ramana's teaching was all internal 'Who am I?', I'm sure he > had to tolerate people worshipping him as did many other Muktas, but > that doesn't mean it was his teaching. I don't think that Maharshi only just tolerated people worshipping him. He was full of love and compassion for people. But he never allowed pooja to be offered to his body, like other so called saints. > One has to distinguish between > the body and its prarabda and the Mukta/Self. Some people cannot > easily go within due to mental capacity so they worship things, as a > representation. Ramana didn't come to start a new religion, in fact he > didn't get involved so. Who is talking about a new religion? > > There is no Ramana anyway but in people's imaginations, as the same > with Jesus, Buddha etc------they were probably all Muktas, most with > prarabda that gave them the illusion of being a person. Ok, but if you go to Ramanashramam, you get the impression that there lived a man, a Jnani, called Ramana Maharshi. He existed in the Self. When you are able to realize the Self you will find that Ramana is no different from you. He is the Guru, working from within. And seeing that Ramana is no different from my Self and I exist, he also must exist. > Many even have impressions of omniscience in Gurus etc etc. This is > also misunderstood IMO. A guru can only have the siddhis that were > decided for the body by prarabda and that's all. When the Ego is gone > it is the Universal Consciousness that motivates the 'shell'. The UC > is universal and so therefore doesn't have value judgments. So a > 100,000 people karmically killed in say a hurricane is no different > from a hundred thousand ants killed by someone poisoning them in the > garden. The Self doesn't ever interfere, in this exchange and movement > of illusory energy. So gurus cannot be expected to display omniscience > to the nth degree. Ramana gave the permission to kill ants and mosquitos, but he would have never given the permission to kill people. > > An Avatar may be slightly different from a Mukta in that they are not > fully realised, but held off to return and help. However they usually > become Muktas once in the lifetime anyway,IMO. They also carry out the > prescribed task they have set out for themeslves and no more, > including which siddhis etc etc. I don't now as I have never met an avatar. I have had darshan of Sai Baba who calls himself an avatar, because I happened to be at Kodaikanal when he visited, but nothing there compelled me to ever see him again, same with Rajneesh back in 79. > > In the end result pictures, mountains, idols, guru- humans and all are > for concentration only. This is because the lower mind loves ritual > and this behaviour. Go Within is the teaching.......Ramana especially > taught this and didn't come to found a new religion of image > worshippers. Who am I? Ko-Ham. There is a mountain I know and love, whoever thinks of this, the red mountain, will attain moksha, because his ego gets killed. How can you not worship such a mountain? > > So yes I don't worship people, pictures, mountains, or any other > manifestation of illusion. I try to go within. Even praying achieves > nothing but a little peace of mind, it cannot change any karma. Only > meditation is really effective...........I am not saying stop > worshipping if at this state of one's mental capacity one needs it for > concentration.........but lets not forget what the concentration is > for...............ONS.............Tony. peace of mind is no small thing Meditation means concentrating on something. I never heard Ramana say that meditation changes you karmas. Your prarabdha cannot be changed anyway, you have to suffer it. But by practicing the vichara, by cutting out thoughts and remaining as much as possible as consciousness, the effects of that prarabhda do not effect you any more. That is called peace. Good luck Om Arunachala Shiva Chris > > > > > > /join > > > > > > "Love itself is the actual form of God." > > Sri Ramana > > In "Letters from Sri Ramanasramam" by Suri Nagamma > > > > Links > > • > / > > • > > > • Terms of > Service. > > Monsoonhouse Int. Kovalam/Kerala contact: christianecameron Attachment: (text/enriched) [not stored] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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