Guest guest Posted February 1, 2005 Report Share Posted February 1, 2005 Buddha said desire is the root of All suffering. Once, I was at a satsang and the satsang giver must have said 20 times "accept what is, or you suffer." Actually this is the whole truth. The statement is so loaded with beingness, and letting go, that doing anything at all, becomes an endless letting go. Ramana said "everything is predistined," and so simply, resisting any of this stuff, that comes and goes as a karmic stream, which cannot be changed anyway, is the cause of suffering. No need to think of doing anything at all, love comes and presents itself to you, in an endless deepening. Love to you Michael --- Harsha wrote: > *Dear BH, see my comments below in blue. > > *barneyhazelwood wrote: > > > > > > Yes, awareness may be maintained in dreamless > sleep as well as > > dreams . > > > > Do YOU maintain this awareness? > > *No. I cannot possess awareness as a separate object > or maintain it as a > condition of life. I myself originate from it. I > exist within this > awareness, rise from this awareness, and subside > into this awareness. > When I said that awareness may be maintained in > dreamless sleep, I was > using words to point out that it is possible to be > fully conscious and > fully present in deep sleep in the absence of > thoughts and imagination > and that is called Kevala Nirvikalpa Samadhi. That > makes us aware that > this awareness is present as our own nature and we > can recognize it as > the background of our ordinary consciousness. The > true nature of "I" if > investigated fully is essentially awareness. * > > > > HOW did you develop this? > > *I did not develop it. Awareness makes itself felt. > When I came across > Sri Ramana's teaching, it made sense to me. * > > > Is there > > ANYTHING you can say to me that indicates you are > 100% confident > > that this awareness is not just another trick of > the brain? > > If it WAS merely a brain-state variation with > nothing beyond this > > life, would that be OK with you? > > ***You are framing the questions in a way that in > order to answer them > to your satisfaction, I have to basically accept > your assumptions. > * > > > > > >Awareness+Dreamless Sleep is Kevala > > >Nirvikalpa Samadhi in Sri Ramana's terms. > Awareness spontaneously > > >and fully dominating all states of consciousness > is known as the > > >natural state or Sahaj state or Sahaj Samadhi. > > > > Do you experience these "terms", or do you use > these in a dogmatic > > way, feeling that I don't understand as you do > only because you can > > quote the correct terminology? > > > *No, it does not have to do with words or > terminology. I use words which > come to me due to my familiarity with them. People > can use whatever > words make sense to them.* > > > > > >The answers to your questions cannot be given > > >in a convincing way as these things are based on > experiential > > >knowledge which is different from experience, > being itself the > > >preceptor and the perceived, the experience and > the experienced. > > >Here the subject itself is the object of > enjoyment to It Self. So > > >who is going to convince who? > > > > So, if you can't tell me one thing that you are > confident of within > > your practice, what is this group FOR, seeing who > can use the > > most "terms" or sound the most learned? > > *This is a sangha, a circle of friends. I created it > because I wanted > company of spiritual friends. We share thoughts, > quotes, poetry, > conversation, and there is an atmosphere of > friendship and respect and > love. At least most of the time. > * > > > > > > As far as your position goes, that humans are > only meat bodies, > > > etc., you would certainly be able to maintain > that. > > > > There's NOTHING you can suggest to me to indicate > that things are > > otherwise? > > > > > If you are comfortable with a certain point of > view, why seek to > > > change it? > > > > As you can tell, I am NOT comfortable with with > ANYTHING, and have a > > growing despair, even after honest stretches of > "lots-of-effort" > > AND "no-effort" that ALL "spiritual" practices, > experiences, and > > scriptures are desperate measures to keep humans > from going insane > > because they cannot face mortality. THIS is NOT > where I thought I > > was going, or wanted to end up. I sure wish I > could be SURE of > > something. So what do I do, hunker down with SOME > practice / > > philosophy, try to fit in with the sangha, and TRY > to lie to myself? > > Ok, here's the only thing I can be sure of: the > truth of suffering. > > *Me too! That is one of the noble truths of the > Buddha that "Life is > suffering". How well most of us know.* > > > > > > You might be interested in yoga systems or the > Jain philosophy > > > > Did you choose your path according to YOUR > pre-conceptions? > > So religion or spiritual practice is a matter of > choice depending on > > our pre-conceptions, sort of like aesthetic > choices such as liking > > or not liking types of music or food? > > > > Thank you for your time and responses. > > > > BH > > *You are welcome. Something prompted me to speak. > You said you wish you > could be sure of something (other than suffering). > You actually are sure > of something. You are sure that you are not sure of > anything. Perhaps > you should not underestimate this knowledge. > > Harsha* > Mail - now with 250MB free storage. Learn more. http://info.mail./mail_250 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 1, 2005 Report Share Posted February 1, 2005 , michael mccarthy <enlightenment2> wrote: > Buddha said desire is the root of All suffering. > Once, I was at a satsang and the satsang giver must > have said 20 times "accept what is, or you suffer." > Actually this is the whole truth. The statement is so > loaded with beingness, and letting go, that doing > anything at all, becomes an endless letting go. > > Ramana said "everything is predistined," and so > simply, resisting any of this stuff, that comes and > goes as a karmic stream, which cannot be changed > anyway, is the cause of suffering. > > No need to think of doing anything at all, love comes > and presents itself to you, in an endless deepening. > > Love to you > > Michael Ahhhhhhhhhh. *Big, wonderful, deep breath, and a stretch too* Thanks, that was great! Kheyala Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 3, 2005 Report Share Posted February 3, 2005 , michael mccarthy <enlightenment2> wrote: > Buddha said desire is the root of All suffering. > Once, I was at a satsang and the satsang giver must > have said 20 times "accept what is, or you suffer." > Actually this is the whole truth. The statement is so > loaded with beingness, and letting go, that doing > anything at all, becomes an endless letting go. > > Ramana said "everything is predistined," and so > simply, resisting any of this stuff, that comes and > goes as a karmic stream, which cannot be changed > anyway, is the cause of suffering. > > No need to think of doing anything at all, love comes > and presents itself to you, in an endless deepening. > > Love to you > > Michael one of my teachers was approached by a seeker who said: "i want liberation!" "'i' is ego; 'want' is desire. just leave both, and you are free..." replied the sage. yosy ) this body experiences pain. pain is the price of pleasure. they are intertwined, they come and go. suffering is identification; the experience of pain is enough. why should i suffer too? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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