Sri Ramana Maharshi - Who am I? ( cont....5)

[Guest guest]

To me it seems there is a contraddiction btw the two comments (not btw Ramana statements)

and not a paradox:

one says: The Self is the world+ other things too

the other says: Seeing names and forms is a misperception.

To me and to Ramana too, as here declared, names and form are real

as long as they are perceived as Self and not separate from Self.

I feel there is still a lot of confusion about what is illusion and what is Reality

and this post contributes to the confusion (nothing personal Swathi,

it is not a criticism to you).

To me the only illusion is the perception of separation

and even that is not an illusion when it is perceived as

a manifestation of the Self.

There is nothing but the Self

the One in the many

the many in the One,

full circle

full emptiness.

Marifa

-

swathi dora

ramana ; satsang

Thursday, March 24, 2005 12:03 AM

Sri Ramana Maharshi - Who am I? ( cont....5)

Om Namo Bhagavate Sri Ramanaya

Sri Ramana Maharshi - Who am I ?

( continued from

yesterday's post)

Question: What is the nature of the Self ?

The Self, one's real nature, alone exists and is real.

The world, the soul and God are superimpositions on it like [the

illusory appearances of] silver in mother-of-pearl. These three

appear and disappear simultaneously. Self itself is the world; Self

itself is the 'I'; Self itself is God; all is Siva, the Self.

( Sri.David Godman's comments : At the beginning of this paragraph

Bhagavan says, in effect, that the world, the soul and God are

illusory appearances. Later he says that all three are the Self, and

therefore real. This should be seen as a paradox rather than a

contradiction. The following answer clarifies Bhagawan's views:

" Sankara was criticised for his views on 'maya' [illusion]

without understanding him. He said that (1) 'Brahman' [the Self] is

real (2) the universe is unreal, and (3) 'Brahman' is the universe.

He did not stop at the second because the third explains the other

two. It signifies that the universe is real if perceived as the Self

and unreal if perceived as apart from the Self. Hence 'maya' and

reality are one and the same."

The seeing of names and forms is a misperception because, in the Self,

the one reality, none exist. Therefore, if a world of names and forms

is seen, it must necessarily be an illusory one. Bhagavan explains

this in verse 49 of 'Guru Vachaka Kovai' :

" Just as fire is obscured by smoke, the shining light of

conciousness is obscured by the assemblage of names and forms. When,

by compassionate divine grace, the mind becomes clear, the nature of

the world will be known to be not illusory forms, but only the

reality." )

.............to be

continued.

India Matrimony: Find your life partner online.

/join

"Love itself

is the actual form of God."Sri RamanaIn "Letters from Sri

Ramanasramam" by Suri Nagamma

[Guest guest]

Thanks for your post, definitely I don't take it as a criticism and on the

otherhand I welcome your frank and sincere comments.

You are absolutely right, there is no contradiction between Sri Ramana Maharshi

statements. Only in our confused state of mind, we try to interpret His

teachings and finally end up in confusion. Here I would like to recollect a

comment made by Harshaji, he mentioned that Sri Ramana's teachings are simple

and crystal clear and there is no necessity to interpret His teachings.

In the end you have also cleared the confusion by stating:

"To me the only illusion is the perception of seperation and even that is not an

illusion when it is perceived as a manifestation of the Self.

There is nothing but the Self

the One in the many

the many in the One

full circle

full emptiness"

Your post also helped me to reread Bhagavan's answers to the questions raised on

illusion. I would like to quote some of His replies.

" To whom is the illusion? Find it out. Then illusion will vanish.

Generally people want to know about illusion and do not examine to whom it is.

There must be one to be deluded. Illusion is ignorance."

................

" Illusion is itself illusory. Illusion must be seen by one beyond it. Can such

a seer be subject to illusion? Can he then speak of degrees of illusion?

There are scenes floating on the screen in a cinema show. Fire appears to burn

buildings to ashes. Water seems to wreck vessels. But the screen on which the

pictures are projected remains unscorched and dry. Why?

Because the pictures are unreal and the screen is real.

Again reflections pass through a mirror; but the mirror is not in any way

affected by the quality or quantity of the reflections on it.

So the world is a phenomenon on the single Reality, which is not affected in any

manner. Reality is only one.

The discussion about illusion is due to the difference in the angle of vision.

Change your angle of vision to one of 'jnana' and then find the universe to be

only Brahman. Being now in the world, you see the world as such. Get beyond it

and this will disappear: the Reality alone will shine."

 

Thanks & Best Regards

Dora

Emanuele De Benedetti <e.debenedetti (AT) tiscali (DOT) it> wrote:

To me it seems there is a contraddiction btw the two comments (not btw Ramana statements)

and not a paradox:

 

one says: The Self is the world+ other things too

 

the other says: Seeing names and forms is a misperception.

 

To me and to Ramana too, as here declared, names and form are real

as long as they are perceived as Self and not separate from Self.

 

I feel there is still a lot of confusion about what is illusion and what is Reality

and this post contributes to the confusion (nothing personal Swathi,

it is not a criticism to you).

 

/join Magazine and

Website is at"Love itself is the actual form of

God."Sri RamanaIn "Letters from Sri Ramanasramam" by Suri Nagamma

/join Magazine and

Website is at"Love itself is the actual form of

God."Sri RamanaIn "Letters from Sri Ramanasramam" by Suri Nagamma

India Matrimony: Find your life partner

online.

[Guest guest]

Thanks for your post, definitely I don't take it as a criticism and on

the otherhand I welcome your frank and sincere comments.

You are absolutely right, there is no contradiction between Sri Ramana

Maharshi statements. Only in our confused state of mind, we try to

interpret His teachings and finally end up in confusion. Here I would

like to recollect a comment made by Harshaji, he mentioned that Sri

Ramana's teachings are simple and crystal clear and there is no

necessity to interpret His teachings.

In the end you have also cleared the confusion by stating:

"To me the only illusion is the perception of seperation and even that

is not an illusion when it is perceived as a manifestation of the

Self.

There is nothing but the Self

the One in the many

the many in the One

full circle

full emptiness"

Your post also helped me to reread Bhagavan's answers to the questions

raised on illusion. I would like to quote some of His replies.

" To whom is the illusion? Find it out. Then illusion will vanish.

Generally people want to know about illusion and do not examine to

whom it is. There must be one to be deluded. Illusion is ignorance."

................

" Illusion is itself illusory. Illusion must be seen by one beyond it.

Can such a seer be subject to illusion? Can he then speak of degrees

of illusion?

There are scenes floating on the screen in a cinema show. Fire appears

to burn buildings to ashes. Water seems to wreck vessels. But the

screen on which the pictures are projected remains unscorched and

dry. Why?

Because the pictures are unreal and the screen is real.

Again reflections pass through a mirror; but the mirror is not in any

way affected by the quality or quantity of the reflections on it.

So the world is a phenomenon on the single Reality, which is not

affected in any manner. Reality is only one.

The discussion about illusion is due to the difference in the angle of

vision. Change your angle of vision to one of 'jnana' and then find

the universe to be only Brahman. Being now in the world, you see the

world as such. Get beyond it and this will disappear: the Reality

alone will shine."

Thanks & Best Regards

Dora

Emanuele De Benedetti <e.debenedetti (AT) tiscali (DOT) it> wrote:

To me it seems there is a contraddiction btw the two comments (not btw Ramana statements)

and not a paradox:

one says: The Self is the world+ other things too

the other says: Seeing names and forms is a misperception.

To me and to Ramana too, as here declared, names and form are real

as long as they are perceived as Self and not separate from Self.

I feel there is still a lot of confusion about what is illusion and what is Reality

and this post contributes to the confusion (nothing personal Swathi,

it is not a criticism to you).

/join

"Love itself

is the actual form of God."Sri RamanaIn "Letters from Sri

Ramanasramam" by Suri Nagamma

/join

"Love itself

is the actual form of God."Sri RamanaIn "Letters from Sri

Ramanasramam" by Suri Nagamma

India Matrimony: Find your life partner

online.